STEVE POLLARD Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I went to move my Impala out of the garage tonight and the brake pedal almost went to the floor board.... I checked the brake reservoir which was at the proper level and I checked underneath the vehicle for any brake fluid - nothing. The vehicle has drum brakes all the way around the vehicle. Just very strange, too late to look at it tonight, but before I start to dig into this tomorrow, any suggestions ? Thanks Steve ( I did "pump" the pedal a few times, no change ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Power brakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 Terry - no power brakes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19tom40 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 To just move the car a short distance, you can try pumping the brake pedal, but you should plan on rebuilding or replacing the master cylinder as you have been given a signal that it will fail soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Does sound like the master cylinder might be failing or something goofy like the linkage has a problem sine there is no loss of fluid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 Thanks for the input.....I'll focus on the master cylinder..... the car has 7000 miles on her and I've never did anything with the brakes since I purchased it back in 2004. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Typical master cylinder failure. Especially if it sinks more with light pedal pressure than when pressing really hard. 2004 is 15 years ago. If DOT 3 filled system, I am surprised it lasted this long. Flush every two years for best results, or just overhaul the whole system and use DOT 5. 2 hours ago, 19tom40 said: been given a signal that it will fail soon No signal is it HAS already failed! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Master cylinder no doubt. Thankfully it happened in the garage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 Thanks again for the input....is it worth rebuilding or just replacing the master cylinder ? 2 hours ago, Frank DuVal said: 2004 is 15 years ago. If DOT 3 filled system, I am surprised it lasted this long. Flush every two years for best results, or just overhaul the whole system and use DOT 5. Thanks Frank.....sad thing is that the vehicle sits....I do start it and run the engine, but I have not driven it for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 5 hours ago, STEVE POLLARD said: is it worth rebuilding or just replacing the master cylinder ? Depends on price. Also depends on if you want the original looking master cylinder and the replacement is not similar looking. I do not know if this is the case, just mentioning it can happen. Rock Auto shows AC Delco master is $52, Raybestos rebuild kit is $21. Sitting vehicle is great with DOT 5, but you have to rebuild all 4 wheel cylinders and flush the steel lines, replace the rubber hoses (just because they are 50 years old!) to change over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Frank DuVal said: Depends on price. Also depends on if you want the original looking master cylinder and the replacement is not similar looking. I do not know if this is the case, just mentioning it can happen. Rock Auto shows AC Delco master is $52, Raybestos rebuild kit is $21. Sitting vehicle is great with DOT 5, but you have to rebuild all 4 wheel cylinders and flush the steel lines, replace the rubber hoses (just because they are 50 years old!) to change over. Thanks Frank ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 8 hours ago, iowa-k said: Is there an easy way to tell if the brake fluid is DOT 3 or DOT 5 when it is in the master cylinder? Well, dot5 is slippery, and dot3(or 4) will sort of burn your hands a little. Pretty subjective. Dot3(4) is usually clear or straw colored, and rots to something like dark amber, gray, or black. Dyed versions do exist, like Ate Super Blu, but that doesn't show up too often in antiques. Dot5 is usually pale purple or pale green, and does not rot, so it might not change color much. It could get discolored by the rubber of rotting cups and seals, or tiny particles worn from a brass cylinder sleeve. Dot5 tags exist to put on the cover bolt of a pot-type master cylinder. I'm not sure what to do with a bail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 15 hours ago, STEVE POLLARD said: is it worth rebuilding or just replacing the master cylinder ? 7000 miles? Why not keep the original? If the bore is too bad, you can get it sleeved. I had one sleeved last year at "Brake and Equipment" of Minneapolis, MN. They did a nice job, and could have rebuilt the cylinder too if I wasn't inclined to do it myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 20 hours ago, iowa-k said: If you do switch over to DOT 5 put a note/sticker/label on the master cylinder to identify what is being used. My dad, since passed away, used both DOT 3 and DOT 5 when rebuilding brake system. I have 3 of his vehicles and have no idea on what is in each of the master cylinders of these cars. Is there an easy way to tell if the brake fluid is DOT 3 or DOT 5 when it is in the master cylinder? There is an easy check for 3/5 brake fluid.... Put a sample of old brake fluid in a clear glass.... add a small amount of water... stir up ..wait 5 minutes. If there is a blob of water at the bottom of the glass...DOT 5 Silicone fluid...if no glob of clear water the water mixed in with the old DOT 3 Brake fluid. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54vicky Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 do not over look a wheel cylinder usually it will be evident on back of tire or wheel.if it sits a lot does not take long for a leaking cylinder to drain the master.with the master up on firewall the fluid can and will siphon down over time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Sleeve job as it came back from Brake and Equipment: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted October 11, 2019 Author Share Posted October 11, 2019 Nice work ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/2/2019 at 3:37 PM, STEVE POLLARD said: Thanks again for the input....is it worth rebuilding or just replacing the master cylinder ? Thanks Frank.....sad thing is that the vehicle sits....I do start it and run the engine, but I have not driven it for a while now. Steve, if you have your original master cylinder on your Chevy, it will have a correct casting number and a casting DATE on it, which match the rest of the components on your Impala. 1969 Chevy passenger master cylinders were typically sort of short with slightly rounded sides. In 1970 Chevy switched to MC's with taller reservoir walls which were flat sided. IF your car is pretty much a matching-numbers car, you might be well served to rebuild and reuse that original master cylinder...at least in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 43 minutes ago, lump said: IF your car is pretty much a matching-numbers car, you might be well served to rebuild and reuse that original master cylinder...at least in my opinion Thanks Lump for the info.....I'm going to look into rebuilding it and keep it original. When I purchased the car in 2004, it had 5,000 original miles on it... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Hmm, no power brake Impala. 😉 I see the master cylinder has been weeping for a long time, as evidenced by the firewall. I would certainly try rebuilding it first, paint it with a cast iron gray, and keep DOT 3,4,5.1 off the outside as much as you can because it will strip your new paint off. Also a good time to lightly touch up the firewall. Carefully, as to not mar the chalk/paint marks visible in the picture. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Steven, That is the taller style, but it might the correct original unit, if your car is late 1969 unit. Anyway, in the attached cropped piece of your photo, I have marked a flat-machined spot with the word "HERE" to show you where you may be able to clean away rust and find production date codes. Edited October 15, 2019 by lump (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said: Hmm, no power brake Impala. 😉 Thanks Frank.... yeah, no power brakes, but it does have power steering... you figure for such a big auto, they would of added power brakes. To be honest, I didn't noticed the weeping, I guess the flash on my phone camera really highlights it ! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, lump said: That is the taller style, but it might the correct original unit, if your car is late 1969 unit. Anyway, in the attached cropped piece of your photo, I have marked a flat-machined spot with the word "HERE" to show you where you may be able to clean away rust and find production date codes. Great ! Thanks Lump ! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted May 29, 2020 Author Share Posted May 29, 2020 On 10/3/2019 at 6:48 AM, Bloo said: 7000 miles? Why not keep the original? If the bore is too bad, you can get it sleeved. I had one sleeved last year at "Brake and Equipment" of Minneapolis, MN. They did a nice job, and could have rebuilt the cylinder too if I wasn't inclined to do it myself Just wanted to do a follow up with the brake issue from last Fall... I ended up sending the Master Cylinder out to "Brake and Equipment" , they did an excellent job with the rebuild... I bench bleed the unit and installed it yesterday on the Impala... all went well. Hopefully tomorrow if one of my boys will help me out, I'll start bleeding out all the brake lines. Update to follow...... Thanks again guys ! Steve 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Great! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 Update: I started the process of bleeding the brake lines on the Impala last week between my work schedule and everything that's been going on. I started with the passenger rear line first ( furthest away from the Master Cylinder ), everything went well, the oil was brown in color - rust in the line ? We continued and after a while, it did clear up ( just a side note, I've had the Impala since 2004, the system has never been flushed out ) So onto the drivers side rear to begin the bleeding process last night. I'm under the vehicle, my youngest son is in the drivers seat, I hook up the bottle / hose - oil recovery and start the process.... nothing. tried again, nothing is bleeding out when I open the bleeder valve. Has anyone experience this problem ? I guessing that the line is blocked some where between the " T " connection and the wheel cylinder..... rust ? Thoughts ? Thanks guys ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Take the bleeder all the way out and be sure its not clogged up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 11 hours ago, JACK M said: Take the bleeder all the way out and be sure its not clogged up. I removed the bleeder....nothing, so I'm guessing it's the line itself going from the " T " connection to the wheel...will look into the line tomorrow... Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 Follow up.......I removed the line from the wheel cylinder... fluid came out, so I replaced the wheel cylinder.... it's working now. While I'm at it since the other three remaining wheel cylinders are original ( 51 years old ) I'm going to replace those as well. With my luck, one of the other cylinders would of failed after bleeding the lines. Steve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54vicky Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 do not stop until you replace others(pun)😁nice job locating problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Higgins Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 You really ought to consider replacing the whole system if none of the components are newer than 50 years old. Go bend your hoses back and forth and see if you can crack them. Even steel lines. I have worked on other time capsule GM cars of this era with mileage as low as yours. If the steel lines don't rot from the outside, they can still fail from the inside. From the outside they will often fail where they are held on the frame by a clip because just a little bit of dirt will hold moisture against them. All it takes is a pinhole for your pedal to go to the floor while cruising down the road and it can happen without warning. The brake fluid you are using is hygroscopic (absorbs moisture from the air) and that is why you are finding everything brown and rusty. In a perfect world it should be completely flushed every two or three years. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 What Higgins said. If the wheel cylinders are rusted internally so bad that you can't get fluid through, you can bet that the brake lines are in just as poor condition..... and they have much less material to rust for them to fail. Not replacing them is just doing half the job and no safer than before. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 I find stopped up bleeder paths in wheel cylinders in DOT 3 systems all the time. Another reason I use DOT 5..... This is why I always take the cylinders apart or replace with new on a "new to me" car, along with rubber hoses and steel lines (Cunifer replacements) since I live in the east. Complete new (rebuilt) system is the way to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE POLLARD Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 On 7/2/2020 at 9:07 AM, W_Higgins said: You really ought to consider replacing the whole system if none of the components are newer than 50 years old. Go bend your hoses back and forth and see if you can crack them. Even steel lines. I have worked on other time capsule GM cars of this era with mileage as low as yours. If the steel lines don't rot from the outside, they can still fail from the inside All wheel cylinders were replaced....finally. Will take the advice about replacing the lines... my winter project. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it ! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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