awk409ak Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Hi All, Hey I was looking on the ROA site and found some interest stuff. One bit data I was not aware of is in 64 the Sunburst Yellow are pretty rare at 2.01% (757 produced). Are there numbers for how many had the Super Wildcat option. Did Rivieras have build sheets and where would one find them in the car. In my 67 Firebird they were inside the driver's seat bottom and in the rear back. Last how do I go about obtaining a window sticker. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 There are no records of what engines came in what colored cars. The best that's available are the articles written for the Riview by Darwin Falk. I tried to find exactly where in the Riview they can be found and the exact name, but I'm sitting here with the latest Riview that I recieved a couple of weeks ago and the username and password listed in it won't work. Anyway, Darwin's articles are as good as it gets and the only info available is the percentage of cars that were equipped with each option. No breakdown on individual type stats like you're looking for. I know of no one who has found a build sheet for their 1st generation Riviera. Other than having a repo made for you, there is no window sticker availability that I'm aware of. Lots of guys wearing the same shoes as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 RivNut, That was the article I was reading. Under "Options Not Included: 1964". Sunburst Yellow and Coral Mist are the two lowest in percentage other than "Special Order" I thought I had heard or read someplace about sending your vin to someone or an association that has all this info. Pontiac does, Pontiac Historic Society. I'll keep looking Thanks, Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 You might do a search of all Buick related forums. I seem to remember something posted some time ago about a service you can pay for to get information on a particular car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 If I remember correctly Mike Tromm on V8buick.com makes the OEM window stickers. He has a pretty good idea of where to get the nec. specifications to produce them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivdrivn Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Looks kinda like this: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Well, you could do a freedom of information act request with the DMV on a specific car and maybe track down some history of the vehicle, but that a side note... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 Thanks. I'll try both. Chimera, As side thing, what do you know about 64 black and gold plates. I have some 64 very nice Cal plates. How would someone in Calif register these? Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 7 hours ago, awk409ak said: Thanks. I'll try both. Chimera, As side thing, what do you know about 64 black and gold plates. I have some 64 very nice Cal plates. How would someone in Calif register these? Art You can take the plates in to be registered with a vehicle, but make sure everything is correct. I got hassled for putting the date sticker on the wrong side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC1968Riviera Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) On 9/22/2019 at 9:21 PM, telriv said: Mike Tromm on V8buick.com makes the OEM window stickers Mike made my repro window sticker for my 68 Riv. The price included lamination. The WS gets as many looks as the car does when I have it displayed in the window of the car. Edited September 26, 2019 by NC1968Riviera (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychostang Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 13 hours ago, NC1968Riviera said: Mike made my repro window sticker for my 68 Riv. The price included lamination. That WS gets as many looks as the car does when I have it displayed in the window of the car. Is the Window Sticker based on information you gave him, or is he able to obtain applicable information based on VIN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 On 9/23/2019 at 1:11 PM, Chimera said: You can take the plates in to be registered with a vehicle, but make sure everything is correct. I got hassled for putting the date sticker on the wrong side. If the plate number has been reused already, they'll seize the plates and destroy them in front of you. I knew a guy that took some nice ones to DMV to register them, they almost cut them in half with tin snips. He grabbed them back, and almost got into a fist fight with security. They were mint condition low number black plates, worth a few hundred even if they couldn't be registered. I was told you can check them online, but i'm not sure where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 hours ago, jsgun said: If the plate number has been reused already, they'll seize the plates and destroy them in front of you. I knew a guy that took some nice ones to DMV to register them, they almost cut them in half with tin snips. He grabbed them back, and almost got into a fist fight with security. They were mint condition low number black plates, worth a few hundred even if they couldn't be registered. I was told you can check them online, but i'm not sure where. It has been ruled on that the plates are the property of the owners. Yes, you can call the DMV and check to see if the plates are in the system, which they usually are not unless they had been registered. Or now you can basically order a black plate through the DMV with custom letters, so its a bit different now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC1968Riviera Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 9 hours ago, psychostang said: Is the Window Sticker based on information you gave him, or is he able to obtain applicable information based on VIN? You have to provide a list of the options on your specific year car. Mr. Tromm has the list of standard options already. The VIN does not provide any option information as stated elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted September 26, 2019 Author Share Posted September 26, 2019 So what good is getting a window sticker that you provide the info. There could more option than what you may know of, isn't this true. Or are you saying, you go through the option list and check what is on your car and build the window sticker that way? That leave it open to people loading up the car with options that may not have been on the car originally. You could add Gildematic, am-fm, cruise, wood steering wheel and other and say it is correct, is this correct? I was asking this about the Cal plates, because I have a very nice set that are still good until May 2020. Came off my 64 Riviera and not sure what do with them. Was think of selling them. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Adding options is not unusual. Most people don't mind that cars have options added to them as long as it was something that was factory correct. Aftermarket and options from different years might be frowned on. Adding a factory option is a lot different than changing paint color in my opinion - at least with paint color, you can tell by the data plate. Four note horns, cornering lights, wheel covers, etc. are final assembly "add ons" anyway - you do not have to do any cutting, welding, or punching to add them. Unlike like so many 63 - 64 owners (me included) who have Buick rally wheels on their cars where a non-available option was added to those year cars. The best way to make up a window sticker is to get a complete list of available options for your year and look at your car to see which ones you have. (If you see something on the list you like, add it. 😎) Ed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsgun Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 18 hours ago, Chimera said: It has been ruled on that the plates are the property of the owners. Yes, you can call the DMV and check to see if the plates are in the system, which they usually are not unless they had been registered. Or now you can basically order a black plate through the DMV with custom letters, so its a bit different now... ok cool, i'm glad it was changed. It was about 12 years ago or more when I was told about that. I did see where you can order black plates. I'm planning on getting some for my riv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, jsgun said: ok cool, i'm glad it was changed. It was about 12 years ago or more when I was told about that. I did see where you can order black plates. I'm planning on getting some for my riv. I purchased a 68 Triple Black 68 and never had the original plates from California, yet on the paperwork it shows the original Black Plate plate and so I am thinking of ordering a new plate with that sequence. Edited September 26, 2019 by Chimera (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychostang Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Ok, so he has no actual GM informatiion, so he could look up my vin and build a window sticker with that. That is what I wanted to know. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC1968Riviera Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, psychostang said: Ok, so he has no actual GM informatiion, so he could look up my vin and build a window sticker with that. That is what I wanted to know. Thanks. Again, your VIN has NOTHING related to option information. Follow Ed's recommendation above to get a full list of options available for your year of Riviera and do a "walk around" inspection of your car seeing what options it has installed compared to those options available that year. Then, contact Mike Tromm on the V8Buick forum. He has a majority of the GM/Buick option codes, dealer codes and other window sticker information. He will tell you what info he needs from you to create an accurate window sticker for your car. (he will ask for the selling dealer, if known, the VIN, the list of options you have and possibly the color of the car). Good luck. Edited September 26, 2019 by NC1968Riviera (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdminc Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Prior to the early 70's there was not as much data required by government agencies to be kept for cars built in the USA. There were records retention requirements. After the requirement was lapsed, the records were typically destroyed. When I worked for GM in my GMI co-op years, I had the opportunity to clean some of these records out and send them to landfills, like inspection tickets, build sheets, etc. Additionally, the cost of computer storage (online) and historical data tape retention was also kind of expensive back then, and of course we didn't have the internet, so they were destroyed or reused when the retention requirement was over (I worked in their Data Processing or IT organization for many years). Add to that some divisions in GM did keep historical data, and some of it is available for research. Unfortunately not all divisions saved what we now see as important build information detail down to the individual vehicle. Therefor our Riviera ownership today is more like an archaeologists adventure in order to piece together our cars history. The obvious things like Body Plate, VIN number, build sheets, and observing your car can give you some of the information/facts. Then there is the history that some owners saved for their beloved Rivieras, including receipts and oral history. Tracing down that history can prove to be difficult as the years go by and the people that were of car buying age in 1963-5 are moving on to new digs. Sometimes it requires a little creativity to put all the pieces together, but at no time can you say that what you see is 100% correct, in my opintions. As and example, dealers put Rally Wheels on Rivieras back in 64 even though they were not available, because they could order the Wildcat ones and to make a customer happy by mounting them on a Riviera. There were some other things that could be done in a dealership before delivery, that are unknown today for the most part, like purse hooks, compasses, and other small things. The dealer could install a rear center armrest, put in a four note horn or rear seat belts for the customer - the service parts were readily available in the dealership, and may not have been well documented - anything for a sale. Unless you have the itemized original sales receipt (and that may not tell the whole story), you probably couldn't know what was delivered, and even with that there may be a set of better hub caps thrown in the trunk by the salesman as it drove off the lot, thanking a good customer. Records for our cars are unfortunately incomplete, and were not retained, compared to today. The laws didn't require it, and it was expensive to keep the paper, computer tapes, etc. Computer storage today is cheap and plentiful, and now we expect everything to be at our fingertips. Our quest is something that requires research, perseverance, a little magic, and luck - and even with all of that we are probably not that close to 100 percent. Rock On gord 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 4 hours ago, msdminc said: people that were of car buying age in 1963-5 are moving on to new digs. Digs as in six feet under! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 4 hours ago, msdminc said: Our quest is something that requires research, perseverance, a little magic, and luck - and even with all of that we are probably not that close to 100 percent. Rock On gord As usual, Gordon knows what he is talking about here. I was kind of lucky with my ’72 GS. I checked with the Sloan Museum, and ’72 was one of the years they had records for. But, even having the microfilm, they could not give me the detail I was looking for. They did clarify some things ordered on the car, but my main goal was to find the color it was painted because it was an SCO car. That is not listed on the microfilm, it just shows 001, meaning it was SCO, so they were no help with that. There were a couple other items they could not identify too, so it shows even with the records, we can’t find out everything about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 I bought my '64 Riv. in 1964 & at 73 I hope my new digs are FAR off into the future. Tom T. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 6 hours ago, Rivman said: As usual, Gordon knows what he is talking about here. I was kind of lucky with my ’72 GS. I checked with the Sloan Museum, and ’72 was one of the years they had records for. But, even having the microfilm, they could not give me the detail I was looking for. They did clarify some things ordered on the car, but my main goal was to find the color it was painted because it was an SCO car. That is not listed on the microfilm, it just shows 001, meaning it was SCO, so they were no help with that. There were a couple other items they could not identify too, so it shows even with the records, we can’t find out everything about them. Surely there is some of the original paint on the car somewhere in the hidden areas where you can determine the color? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJS Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 On 9/22/2019 at 7:21 PM, telriv said: If I remember correctly Mike Tromm on V8buick.com makes the OEM window stickers. Good day. Thanks for the intel, after spending a bit of time, I eventually did find him on the V8Buick forum. A very nice gentleman to deal with, great communication and although a repo, a very cool piece to have. The other good news, back in 1964 the Canadian dollar was very close to par with the US$, so the numbers are probably pretty close to what would’ve been on this sheet here in Edmonton. Close enough, I’m sure. The surprising news, I can’t believe how expensive the radio/power antenna was back then, sheesh... Anywho, Mike Tromm... can be reached at: mrtromm4@gmail.com I eventually found him here where he gives a bit of detail.... http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/reproduction-window-stickers.186561/ I probably have better things to spend my money on, but I know for a fact that over the years, I’ve spent a lot more for a lot less. Later, Mike Swick Edmonton, AB —— 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC1968Riviera Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 13 hours ago, MikeJS said: I probably have better things to spend my money on, but I know for a fact that over the years, I’ve spent a lot more for a lot less It was well worth the $30 US for the laminated window sticker Mike made for me. It gets as much attention as the car does at show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 I finally got time to scan the body broadcast sheet and billing sheet off my 67 Pontiac Firebird to show what I was asking about. The broadcast sheet was found inside the back of the back seat. I got the billing sheet form Pontiac Historical Services (PHS). The billing sheet tell you how it was built, the broadcast just tells the operator what part to grab. They completely decode and sends you all the info and spec's on how your car was built, except for what a dealer may have added. See attachments. 1. is the broadcast sheet, 2. is the billing sheet. Art 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Too bad Buick doesn't do something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awk409ak Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Yea, more accurate way determine authenticity. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericisback Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 On 9/22/2019 at 3:30 PM, awk409ak said: Hi All, Hey I was looking on the ROA site and found some interest stuff. One bit data I was not aware of is in 64 the Sunburst Yellow are pretty rare at 2.01% (757 produced). Are there numbers for how many had the Super Wildcat option. Did Rivieras have build sheets and where would one find them in the car. In my 67 Firebird they were inside the driver's seat bottom and in the rear back. Last how do I go about obtaining a window sticker. Art Can anyone point me to the info on the ROA site that shows the production numbers by color (mentioned in this post)? Thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 Darwin Falk did a serine’s of articles about options titled “Options Not Included” for the Riview. Those are in thr Members Only section on the ROA’s website. You might have to read each one to find the info you’re seeking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericisback Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 53 minutes ago, RivNut said: Darwin Falk did a serine’s of articles about options titled “Options Not Included” for the Riview. Those are in thr Members Only section on the ROA’s website. You might have to read each one to find the info you’re seeking. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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