How would you fix this car?

[JohnD1956]

Just for some discussion,  and a chance to hear some ideas and opinions, I ask; How would you begin to fix this car? 

This is intended to be an informative discussion of steps to take to possibly repair a vehicle which sustains similar damages.  I, for one have no firm idea where I'd begin with an effort like this, and for purposes of this discussion only, lets just assume sourcing parts is no problem.  In which case I myself might start with purchasing a new rear bumper to get a fix on just how far the body has to be pulled back.  Where would you start? and what steps would you take if you had this job to contemplate? 

 

Note: Matt said he is not going to fix this car, so lets get that part off the table now.  This is just a discussion about how one might attempt this repair.

 

Hope to hear some good ideas... 

[SpecialEducation]

First, I'd be checking the frame geometry.  If it's serviceable, I start looking for a parts car. 

I would strip the body of the parts car, repair any rust or other issues the body had, and put the new body on the known frame.  

Personally, I would rather have factory welds & sheetmetal structure and a mismatched body/vin tag than to retain the "original" body with such significant cutting & welding required.

[old-tank]

Sent these guys some photos and see what they say.

 

[60FlatTop]

Rear hits are usually easy pulls and were pretty good money makers for body shops of the time period of a '54.

 

Remember, victims tend to exaggerate.

 

First step would be a visit to a body guy you have know for at least 40 or so years. Let him give it a tug with all the parts in tact. You'd be surprised.

Bernie

[NC-car-guy]

2 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

 for body shops of the time period of a '54.

 

 

 

First step would be a visit to a body guy you have know for at least 40 or so years.

hmmmmm

[Bloo]

Note: I am not a body man. Use the following advice when everyone else has given up. YMMV.

 

A friend of mine who went to college for body repair told me a long time ago that steel has a memory. As long as you don't heat it and relieve the stress, the metal WANTS to go back to the correct shape. He said if you could reverse the impact exactly, the dent would come all the way out. That little bit of information has served me well over the years.

 

If I had to fix that, based on what I have seen, (and really. I would have to see more underneath), I would find some way to tie the car down SOLIDLY (and that might be the hardest part, finding something solid enough to anchor, and also to spread the load out on the un-bent part of the car to avoid doing more damage). Then I would pull, from something else solid (huge tree maybe?). I would try to duplicate the angle and center point of impact exactly, and I would pull like crazy with a comealong. Anchoring the comealong would most likely mean putting some holes in the body around the taillight area, and fabricating some sort of plate to go underneath to keep from pulling through. The shape and size of this plate might have to change as you pull (several pulls, several plates).

 

Simultaneously, you may need to push underneath somewhere with a porta-power, maybe more than one. The reason is that as the car folds up, things hit each other when the dent goes in (and push on each other) that will not pull back when the dent goes out. You need to reverse the forces of the dent as closely as possible, and that probably means also pushing from the inside. It may also mean pushing on the frame if there is obvious damage.

 

Typically you will have to pull about 10% too far, as the car will spring back. It is sort of hard to estimate, but the car doesn't WANT to go too far and it will start to resist pulling even more. Pull from the outside and tighten from the inside, and tap or maybe bang on high spots and creases with a hammer to help it along as the dent comes out,.

 

It would be imperative to have a perfectly straight bumper to work with as JohnD1956 mentioned, as well as a perfectly straight trunk lid. You would also need a bunch of measuring tools. Jack stands, angle gauges, a roll of twine or a chalkline with no chalk in it (or two), plumb bobs (several), levels, straightedges, measuring tapes, laser pointers, etc. Fortunately all these tools are available at Harbor Freight these days for not too much money.

 

After the dent is more or less out, and you have pulled as far as you can, and have the major inner structure back where it belongs, and the taillight area is probably stretched out almost beyond repair, and the straight trunklid and bumper and the door fit correctly,  is time to stop and re-assess.

 

Put the car on a REALLY flat piece of concrete and get out the jackstands and strings. Check the wheel alignment. Is the axle in the right spot? Is the frame (still) bent? How far? If bent can you straighten it with the porta-power? is the frame LEVEL or is there a corner up or down? Measure up from some strings tied to jackstands, and checked for level. If it is bad enough, the body might have to come off of the frame now. Regardless of how, if the frame is bent, straighten it.

 

There is going to be a lot of stretched metal from the wreck and from the pulling. You can shrink metal with an acetylene torch. Don't heat anything until you are completely done pulling! It may be easier to cut the whole panel off and replace it. Probably at least some sheet metal will need to be replaced. Keep working it until everything is back where it belongs.

 

 

 

 

[NTX5467]

Don't know that I'd want to rely on the solidity of a big tree, personally.  It might have been appropriate from the middle '50s, in some cases, but no real reason to risk doing something that can't be reversed in this day and age of laser measurements and modern frame tables.  I would highly suspect the rear frame rails are bowed somewhat, plus the rear crossmember (at the rear of the frame) would be deformed, also (as expected).  From there, look at the kick-up over the rear axle and look for any changes in the radius of those curves.  Even flaked paint/dirt, as evidence of something moving.  Then inspect the body mounts under the rear seat area, for bolt angles and evidence of the rubber mounts moving, of late.  IF the rear doors still open and close well, plus being in alignment, that's probably as far as the energy was dissipated/absorbed.

 

Then inspect the deck lid gap at its front area, under the rear window.  Any bowing of the deck lid upward?  If it still opens, look at the deck lid hinges and mounting area for deformation.  What about the trunk floor and related fuel tank mounting/retention issues?

 

I'd strongly concur about a parts car, probably one with the front end crashed and the rear of the car still good.

 

I'd lean more toward getting the frame issues assessed and then worry about getting the sheet metal taken care of.  As the frame is moved back into place, some hammer/dolly work on the metal could happen at the same time?  Of course, having a "new" deck lid to put into place as all of this is going on would be good, too.  Deck lid hinge work could be variable, unless the complete hinge was swapped with the parts car, too.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[JohnD1956]

Don't forget about these extra photos: 

 

These pictures show the drivers side rear quarter pulled away and down from the roof,  The passengers side rear quarter pulled to the left side and the drivers side rear door also tilted downwards.  But I am thinking the passengers side rear door is still in place and straight, so that may be a convenient reference location for straightening the body.

 

Here's a question.  Would it make sense to unbolt the body mounts behind the rear tires from the frame,  before starting to pull on the rear quarters? 

Edited November 28, 2018 by JohnD1956 (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Maybe, but I wouldn't unless it just wasn't coming out and I absolutely had to. Those frame bolts were in there when the dent was made. The time will almost certainly come when you have to separate the body from the frame. I would postpone that as long as practical.

 

Is the rear window not broken?! I might take that out if so. I have a sneaking hunch it isn't going to make it.

[Fr. Buick]

Pull the frame to spec, then the body panels.  The body depends on the frame, and is heavier-duty.

[Rztrike]

Here's my $.02. I am all for resurrecting old cars but sometimes it just doesn't make sense. You have already taken the time to bring this car back to life and have had many trials and tribulations along the way and it has brought you great joy to be able to start it up for the first time and then to drive it. To try and resurrect this car again can be done but even with the most experienced body man it will never be right or what you remembered it to be. Take the insurance money and either put it into your other cars or if you have fallen in love with this style, buy another and let this car be a donor for the next one. Sometimes we need to sacrifice one so another may live.

Hope this helps in your decision

[JohnD1956]

2 hours ago, Rztrike said:

Here's my $.02. I am all for resurrecting old cars but sometimes it just doesn't make sense. You have already taken the time to bring this car back to life and have had many trials and tribulations along the way and it has brought you great joy to be able to start it up for the first time and then to drive it. To try and resurrect this car again can be done but even with the most experienced body man it will never be right or what you remembered it to be. Take the insurance money and either put it into your other cars or if you have fallen in love with this style, buy another and let this car be a donor for the next one. Sometimes we need to sacrifice one so another may live.

Hope this helps in your decision

 

Wndsofchng06 has already made his decision. The car won't be fixed.  The question here is how to go about fixing it.  It's just a discussion of how one would proceed to fix this type of damage if they were to choose to try and do so. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

2 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

 

Wndsofchng06 has already made his decision. The car won't be fixed.  The question here is how to go about fixing it.  It's just a discussion of how one would proceed to fix this type of damage if they were to choose to try and do so. 

 

 Sure is difficult to keep a thread on topic is it not.

 

  B en

[39BuickEight]

How would I fix this car?  I would find a parts car and sell the xtras, coming out even or ahead.  That would not be easy or quick, but that's how I operate, slow and steady. 

[JohnD1956]

@Ben Bruce aka First Born Well,  I cannot complain about others going off topic as I am certain I am also guilty of that.  But just to refresh, so far I hear sourcing a straight bumper and trunk lid, along with visualizing and measuring frame distortion.  Then yanking as hard as you can against some body form templates.

 

Considering the shift in the gap of the drivers side rear door,  I do think it would be difficult to make headway with pulling this out without detaching the frame mounts. Both behind the rear tires and up to the midway point on the drivers side.  I would think after that I would look for a replacement frame.  Seeig as I am way behind on my library reading, I just finished the Hemmings Classic car series for September - November 2016, where they write about the fellow in Canada who restored a 51 Pontiac.  Within the first part of the series they talk about how an incorrect reference book resulted in the owner buying a frame for a 49, which was significantly different than his 51.  Rather than search for a 51 frame, he built a template for the 51 frame and then reconstructed the 49's frame to make it match the 51.  So I guess if he could do that, then straightening this frame is not out of the question.

 

[old-tank]

Do what I did and show the pictures to an experienced body man...but don't show this thread unless you want him to have a good laugh!

My 76 Olds took a hit like that a few years ago and I was already scrounging for a quarter panel, trunk lid and bumper when Mr. Experience fixed it.  The tail light and bezel were the only replacement parts needed.  The repair is undetectable except for the bumper where the chrome shop neglected to get enough chrome deposited.

[60FlatTop]

Years ago a local body man came up with an idea to sink four to six 4" pipes into garage floors with a cut out chain slot to use as pull anchors. I never installed any, but I know where three or four can still be accessed. Chaining that car down in the front and using a simple come-a-long with clamps at the impact points would get you to a good decision point in about an hour.

 

If it was my car I might sink four anchors into my floor and call it part of the cost of the repair. You can never have enough tools.

 

Even though I never really was employed in the automotive field, I grew up heavily involved in the hobby and have a bunch of friends skilled in all phases, plus my own experience. And some Nephews whom have turned into good mechanics and welders, as well. Tuesday nights I meet the 40+ year body man for coffee. He was right there to set the new windshield into the Riviera, almost a century of experience leaning over the fenders on that job. When I feel old I have one mechanic I let do stuff, easy stuff, certainly nothing where aesthetics is involved.

 

But being in those circles of talent are things older than computers (not much, computers became a part of my daily work in 1974), the internet, and forums. That was just how it worked. My forte for the locals has been factory carburetors and electrical work. (read that as never cared much for Holley's or Fords)

 

That '54 Buick doesn't look bad to me. If it is deemed totaled I would still give in a try. Now it won't matter if you screw it up. And you could end up with confidence in a new skill to share.

Bernie

[RivNut]

7 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

Wndsofchng06 has already made his decision. The car won't be fixed.  The question here is how to go about fixing it.  It's just a discussion of how one would proceed to fix this type of damage if they were to choose to try and do so. 

 

 

Some of us are not reading the entire thread before replying.

[60FlatTop]

Here is one variation of the floor anchor pot:

They are $30 each online https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/champ-floor-anchor-pot-1600-p-11538.aspx

I am doing some major rearranging of my garage and could easily see dropping 4 into strategic spots. Especially being a firm believer in Muphy's Law.

Bernie

[Rztrike]

On 11/28/2018 at 6:48 PM, RivNut said:

 

 

Some of us are not reading the entire thread before replying.

I feel the need to stand up for myself on this as a few feel the need to read between the lines. First of all, After reading the post (How would I fix this car) I  read all of the original post about the car and the trials and tribulations of getting the car to where it was before the accident, then reading the title of the second post again (How would you fix this car) which was before the note about him not fixing the car, I had made my reply as I did. Now i will admit I had gotten caught up in the emotion seeing the car damaged and how the poster feels about the car. With all that in mind, hindsight says I misinterpreted the post, I was thinking that he did not know where to start, which is why I replied the way I did,  meaning that I personally would not fix this car. My apologies and i take full responsibility for going off topic though it was not my intention

[JohnD1956]

54 minutes ago, Rztrike said:

My apologies and i take full responsibility for going off topic though it was not my intention

 

Please know, that no offense was taken.  The response and your opinion was perfectly understandable.  I would say I totally agreed with it as well, were it me in this situation.  The only intention with this thread was to open a discussion about how one would proceed if they were to tackle a project like this themselves.  And your input is as valuable as everyone elses.

 

With consideration to Bernie's posts about pulling points,  I would imagine a minimum of three directions that the body needs to be pulled, simultaneously. 

To me it looks like the right rear quarter has to be pulled outward by 45 degrees,   The left rear quarter has to be pulled straight back. And the left rear quarter has to be pulled upwards to begin to get the body back in some form of alignment.

[59ELEC]

I'm new here, but will toss my opinion in as well. I have been in body repair for 35 years and today all I do is classic cars.

 

First of all, Let's forget about the "anchor to a tree" idea. That is how we straighten demolition derby cars to run one more time. It works, but not very accurate.

Secondly, a come along would probably break and then we would be discussing how to fix a different type of body all together! Hydraulics and a digital frame rack is the way to go. The floor pots work, but again, accuracy and multiple simultaneous pulls (recreating the collision in reverse) would be key in dealing with something this severe.

 

I would also like to add that the "it'll never be the same" adage is incorrect. I tell my customers that if you can tell where I made any repair, if it drives differently, squeaks, rattles or dose anything that it did not do before the collision the repairs will be free of charge. The whole point is to return to pre-collision condition or better. It's not years of experience, it's caring about quality and a love for all things on wheels!

 

Now, all that said, if I were to repair this car (I say "if" to stay on topic) I would take JohnD1956's advice and use it as a donor for another car. However, if the car has a significant or sentimental attachment to you repair it, I always say anything can be repaired, the question is should it be?

 

 

 

 

[NTX5467]

Tolerance of "cost" probably should be in the "Should it be . . . " discussion, too?  I know that "anything can be done, for a price".  As I look at the cars I have accumulated (and I drove for years), I'm now wondering if "fond memories" might be best?  As long as they go to an appreciating home.  Perhaps this is an "advancing age" situation?

 

NTX5467