1940 Resto Rod Buick Special Tourning Sedan

[Gary Best]

1 hour ago, wndsofchng06 said:

 

They are not bushings but more like ball joints. I asked the same question. The joint allows full movement of the rear axle and will hold better than a bushing. 

[NC-car-guy]

3 minutes ago, Gary Best said:

They are not bushings but more like ball joints. I asked the same question. The joint allows full movement of the rear axle and will hold better than a bushing. 

That's pretty cool!

[Gary Best]

Hope to finish wiring dash soon.

[mcdarrunt]

A little giggle about my 37 Special trailing arms. When I put the open rear end in I welded spring perches in the correct position and bolted the housing in place---all done on the drive on lift so weight could be on rear for wheel and shock positioning. Moved over to two post lift to rebuild the brakes and when I raised the car one wheel was way forward in the fender opening and other way back---something WRONG. A little checking showed a 37 Buick has shackles on BOTH ends of the spring thus the trailing arms. So much for a "Professional" rating.

[s_hilmoe]

Looks Great! 

 

My project...

[Gary Best]

1 hour ago, s_hilmoe said:

Looks Great! 

 

My project...

Sweet looking . You use Fat Man for your front clip?

[s_hilmoe]

6 hours ago, Gary Best said:

Sweet looking . You use Fat Man for your front clip?

Yup! Fatman up front, C10 long arms in back. Going with 6.0 Vortec/ 4L65E drivetrain.

 

 

[s_hilmoe]

On 9/13/2018 at 7:51 AM, Gary Best said:

They are not bushings but more like ball joints. I asked the same question. The joint allows full movement of the rear axle and will hold better than a bushing. 

That's very interesting. That's basically the same as the Chevy C10 long trailing arm setup. Same as I'm using. Many places replace the long arm with a square tubing because they are more rigid. However, the C10 trailing arm setup needs to twist. The I-beam is very strong and resists flexing but it can twist allowing the suspension to move or articulate. When a square tubing is used they do not flex OR twist and it make for a very harsh ride. However, with those ends the tubes are allowed to rotate or "twist" at the same time move up and down. I like it!

[Gary Best]

12 hours ago, s_hilmoe said:

Yup! Fatman up front, C10 long arms in back. Going with 6.0 Vortec/ 4L65E drivetrain.

 

 

Very sweet ride  . I love it.

[Gary Best]

9 hours ago, s_hilmoe said:

That's very interesting. That's basically the same as the Chevy C10 long trailing arm setup. Same as I'm using. Many places replace the long arm with a square tubing because they are more rigid. However, the C10 trailing arm setup needs to twist. The I-beam is very strong and resists flexing but it can twist allowing the suspension to move or articulate. When a square tubing is used they do not flex OR twist and it make for a very harsh ride. However, with those ends the tubes are allowed to rotate or "twist" at the same time move up and down. I like it!

Like the C10 arms also. The johnny joints have 360 degree flex so should allow full suspension articulation. I hope

[RivNut]

Gary,

 

I understand what your concerns are for a long distance hauler, but perhaps you'll get a better perspective of what the Buick "Nailhead" is capable of after watching this video. In 1960, this would have been a 401 cubic inch,  325 hp,  445 lb. ft. of torque,  single four barrel carb, dual exhaust.  The 425 didn't come out until late 1963

 

In short:  10,000* miles in 5,000 minutes.  That's averaging over 120 mph for 3-1/2 days only stopping for tires.  Refueling was done on the fly as it's done on military aircraft.

 

*10,000 miles is equivalent to driving from Flint, MI to Detroit, to San Francisco, to Los Angeles, to Miami, to New York, and back to Los Angeles.  

 

Thinks about it.  These cars were what Mom and Pop took the kids on vacation every summer; summer after summer.  We took my dad's '63 Wildcat from central KS to Oregon two summers in a row (64 and 65) without a hiccup.  He once got stopped in Wyoming for doing 93 mph but didn't get a ticket because we were basically the only car on the road at the time.  ? 

 

Another little known thing about the Buick "Wildcat"  is that it is the engine that the United States Air Force used in the start carts to wind up the jet engines in the SR-71 Blackbird.  They were the only engines that had enough lasting torque to spool up the jet engine until it lit.  

 

The AG-330 Start Cart: When You Need To Fire Off The Mother Of All Hot Rods, Bring Out The Big Guns

May 09, 2017Bryan McTaggartBUICK / OLDS / PONTIAC, CHEVY8

---

The Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird’s legend as the fastest aircraft ever created to date can’t be denied by anyone. The exotic-looking, twin-engined reconnaissance aircraft routinely could fly three times past the speed of sound and well past 80,000 feet above the ground. If a Blackbird was to fly today, it would still be as wicked and as cutting-edge as it was on April 25th, 1962, when it’s predecessor, the A-12, took off from Area 51 on it’s maiden flight. The skin stretched during flight, it leaked fuel on the ground, and it was extremely delicate for ground-handling duties. Technicians had to be careful how they approached the Blackbird, so as to not damage it.

Delicate isn’t a word that could be used about the SR-71’s starting procedure, however. In later years, the Blackbird was started pneumatically, but prior to the 1980s, the task fell to the AG-330, one of the most infamous pieces of ground support equipment to ever grace a flightline. The AG-330 Start Cart was necessary to fire off the SR-71’s Pratt & Whitney J58-1 turbojets. In order for the engines to start to function on their own, they had to be spun up to about 3,200 RPM before the engine would run under it’s own power. Two start carts were needed for one aircraft to wake up. Connected via a gearbox, the AG-330 was connected to a driveshaft that went into the J-58-1’s starter pad. Once the engines were at 3,200 RPM, the engine was hit with a shot of triethylborane (TEB), a chemical that ignites with oxygen, to fire it off.  The first generation start carts utilized two (sitting side by side) Buick 401 Nailhead V8s that were completely uncorked to get the engines fired off. .Yes, pneumatic starting was quieter. But let’s be honest: the AG-330 system was perfectly appropriate and didn’t need to be changed. When starting up a Mach 3+ aircraft involves four big-cube V8s shrieking at the tops of their lungs, it almost seems fitting, doesn’t it?

Oh yeah, TA Performance makes new roller rockers, roller cams / lifters, and headers for the nailhead.  And if you're still concerned you can bolt an FiTech fuel injection system on the stock intake.  

Perhaps Tom T. will chime in on driving the Hot Rod power tour in his stock '64 Riviera - the one that will pull the left front wheel when the light turns green. 

One thing that I think most of the guys here would say is "don't be a cookie cutter."  You'll have a really nice ride but it will be just another Chevy powered ride like everyone else's.  

Something to put in your pipe and smoke! 

 

Ed

 

 

[RivNut]

Here's another resto mod Buick that's all Buick

 

 

[Gary Best]

2 hours ago, RivNut said:

Gary,

 

I understand what your concerns are for a long distance hauler, but perhaps you'll get a better perspective of what the Buick "Nailhead" is capable of after watching this video. In 1960, this would have been a 401 cubic inch,  325 hp,  445 lb. ft. of torque,  single four barrel carb, dual exhaust.  The 425 didn't come out until late 1963

 

In short:  10,000* miles in 5,000 minutes.  That's averaging over 120 mph for 3-1/2 days only stopping for tires.  Refueling was done on the fly as it's done on military aircraft.

 

*10,000 miles is equivalent to driving from Flint, MI to Detroit, to San Francisco, to Los Angeles, to Miami, to New York, and back to Los Angeles.  

 

Thinks about it.  These cars were what Mom and Pop took the kids on vacation every summer; summer after summer.  We took my dad's '63 Wildcat from central KS to Oregon two summers in a row (64 and 65) without a hiccup.  He once got stopped in Wyoming for doing 93 mph but didn't get a ticket because we were basically the only car on the road at the time.  ? 

 

Another little known thing about the Buick "Wildcat"  is that it is the engine that the United States Air Force used in the start carts to wind up the jet engines in the SR-71 Blackbird.  They were the only engines that had enough lasting torque to spool up the jet engine until it lit.  

 

The AG-330 Start Cart: When You Need To Fire Off The Mother Of All Hot Rods, Bring Out The Big Guns

May 09, 2017Bryan McTaggartBUICK / OLDS / PONTIAC, CHEVY8

---

The Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird’s legend as the fastest aircraft ever created to date can’t be denied by anyone. The exotic-looking, twin-engined reconnaissance aircraft routinely could fly three times past the speed of sound and well past 80,000 feet above the ground. If a Blackbird was to fly today, it would still be as wicked and as cutting-edge as it was on April 25th, 1962, when it’s predecessor, the A-12, took off from Area 51 on it’s maiden flight. The skin stretched during flight, it leaked fuel on the ground, and it was extremely delicate for ground-handling duties. Technicians had to be careful how they approached the Blackbird, so as to not damage it.

Delicate isn’t a word that could be used about the SR-71’s starting procedure, however. In later years, the Blackbird was started pneumatically, but prior to the 1980s, the task fell to the AG-330, one of the most infamous pieces of ground support equipment to ever grace a flightline. The AG-330 Start Cart was necessary to fire off the SR-71’s Pratt & Whitney J58-1 turbojets. In order for the engines to start to function on their own, they had to be spun up to about 3,200 RPM before the engine would run under it’s own power. Two start carts were needed for one aircraft to wake up. Connected via a gearbox, the AG-330 was connected to a driveshaft that went into the J-58-1’s starter pad. Once the engines were at 3,200 RPM, the engine was hit with a shot of triethylborane (TEB), a chemical that ignites with oxygen, to fire it off.  The first generation start carts utilized two (sitting side by side) Buick 401 Nailhead V8s that were completely uncorked to get the engines fired off. .Yes, pneumatic starting was quieter. But let’s be honest: the AG-330 system was perfectly appropriate and didn’t need to be changed. When starting up a Mach 3+ aircraft involves four big-cube V8s shrieking at the tops of their lungs, it almost seems fitting, doesn’t it?

Oh yeah, TA Performance makes new roller rockers, roller cams / lifters, and headers for the nailhead.  And if you're still concerned you can bolt an FiTech fuel injection system on the stock intake.  

Perhaps Tom T. will chime in on driving the Hot Rod power tour in his stock '64 Riviera - the one that will pull the left front wheel when the light turns green. 

One thing that I think most of the guys here would say is "don't be a cookie cutter."  You'll have a really nice ride but it will be just another Chevy powered ride like everyone else's.  

Something to put in your pipe and smoke! 

 

Ed

 

 

Nailheads are great, no argument here.,but your starting with a 40+ year old core and parts are hard to find . Good luck with a water pump issue in Atlas Kansas. Just saying. If I only wanted to do car shows and short runs a nailhead it would have been . 

This test run was done in 1960 on a 1960 motor. A little different than a test in 2018 on a 1960 motor. Understand some new parts being made and can use other universal parts , but still a 40+ year old block and heads. Also not aware of new overdrive transmissions being adapted to nailheads. Some one may have done that swap but haven't seen one.

  

Edited September 15, 2018 by Gary Best (see edit history)

[RivNut]

You can buy new, not rebuilt , American made, water pumps for the nailhead.

 

One thing that a lot of engine builders want to do but shouldn't is to install hardened valve seats in a nailhead.  Totally in necessary because the nickel content in the iron is so high that valve recession is unheard of. 

 

5 or 50 years old iron won't make any difference as long as the rest of the parts are in god shape. Look at it this way. The block is seasoned and you have nothing to worry about. How many high performance engine builders look for seasoned blocks to start with when building an engine.

 

This past June, the Riviera Owners met in northeast Kansas for their annual event.  There are two long distance awards given.  One for the longest drive and one for the longest drive in a car 50 years old or older. Both awards this year went to 1963 Rivieras.  One was driven in from Nevada, and one from Saskatchewan. Both logged over 1,200 miles one way and they made it home.  Floyd Hilman, from Washinton, has almost 400,000 miles on his 63. I think your rationalization and fears are unfounded. ?

 

Here's something else you may find of interest.  If you're not getting a new high performance crate engine, it's well worth reading. (Sorry about the formatting, I copied and pasted and there were some unnecessary pictures in the article so I cut them leaving things in the format that you see.

 

New vs. “Seasoned” Blocks It used to be that no self-respecting performance enthusiast would consider using a new block. This  wasn’t simply a matter of money. New blocks just didn’t make as much power as well seasoned used  blocks. Engine blocks, like football quarterbacks, get better with age. In the case of a block casting,  countless cycles of heating up and cooling down help to “season” the metal. When a block is first  cast and then machined on the assembly line, it develops internal stresses. The heating/cooling  cycle allows these stresses to “relax,” until finally the block becomes dimensionally stable. In the  opinion of many top ranked racers, an engine does not achieve maximum power output until it has  been honed three or four times; it takes that long for the cylinder bores to settle down and hold the  perfectly round shape that promotes a “tight” ring seal.     Here’s evidence that the automakers  are getting serious about performance  again. Chevrolet has introduced Bow  Tie big-block and small-block castings  with all the features any racer could  want; Ford and Chrysler offer similar  heavy-duty pieces. For a strong street  engine, however, Sixties-vintage iron is  usually a better (and cheaper) choice.   Ihe Detroit engineers have realized that thin-wall castings are not really suitable for high-performance applications. That’s why all the major automakers are now offering brand new “off-road” castings with the features that  racers and performance enthusiasts demand. For example, Chevrolet will sell you both small-block  and big-block “Bow Tie” castings with extra-thick cylinder walls, beefy main bearing bulkheads, and  reinforced deck surfaces. Ford offers heavy-duty iron and aluminum blocks through the SVO  division, and Chrysler makes special versions of the A-engine block available through the factory- backed Direct Connection program.   PS - I have no idea where all this white space came from but I can't get rid of it.

Edited September 15, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

6 hours ago, RivNut said:

Here's another resto mod Buick that's all Buick

 

 

Thanks for those two you tube video's. I'm afraid you're efforts are in vain though. If I were doing this build I would have considered this: The 1940 Chevrolet is considered the baby Buick. Earl had Chevrolet copy Buicks shape, especially the front end. Everybody from back then knows this. If the engine swap went into a 40 Chevy at least the VCCA guys would have a Chevy in a Chevy. The author here is dead set on a bow-tie and the argument is futile and there isn't interest in the engine being part of the brand. He doesn't have that connection you or I might have.  

[RivNut]

14 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

Thanks for those two you tube video's. I'm afraid you're efforts are in vain though. If I were doing this build I would have considered this: The 1940 Chevrolet is considered the baby Buick. Earl had Chevrolet copy Buicks shape, especially the front end. Everybody from back then knows this. If the engine swap went into a 40 Chevy at least the VCCA guys would have a Chevy in a Chevy. The author here is dead set on a bow-tie and the argument is futile and there isn't interest in the engine being part of the brand. He doesn't have that connection you or I might have.  

I figured that from the beginning but I thought that perhaps I could give him some insight into the nailhead.  Tommy Ivo, Tony Nancy, and Max Balchowsky figured it out then the rest of us just carried on.

[Beemon]

Those trailing arms are done the same way we do A arms in Formula SAE. I'm no suspension guy but I was told having them horizontal versus vertical helps with minimizing the shear plane during vertical movement. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 Beating a dead horse comes to mind.

 

  Gary, don't let us interfere. Individual preferences and all that. CARRY ON!   Only I want a ride when it is finished.

 

  Ben

[Gary Best]

7 hours ago, Beemon said:

Those trailing arms are done the same way we do A arms in Formula SAE. I'm no suspension guy but I was told having them horizontal versus vertical helps with minimizing the shear plane during vertical movement. 

I think you right about horizontal vers vertical , but these johnny joints are so strong that not a problem. Can be mounted horizontal but manufacture does not recommend.

[Beemon]

It's not the heim joint that is questionable, its the frame mounts that are the concern. Having them horizontal puts the shear plane parallel on the vertical bolt versus making an uneven moment arm during twisting if the bolt was horizontal. Of course in this scenario you don't have a choice which way its oriented unless you add a cross member. Should be fine, was just commenting because I thought it was weird when I saw it in Formula SAE. Keep up the good work!

[Gary Best]

Need some time off , getting all wired up

[mcdarrunt]

Did I miss read what this section of the forum is called? I swear it says MODIFIED, that's M-O-D-I-F-I-E-D. It has a V8. that's a modification. An open rear--Ditto. Automatic--Ditto. I guess all some will accept is fuzzy dice and a locking gas cap but in my opinion if you don't want to see real changes that took original thought and even some design/engineering then maybe you shouldn't click the "Modified" heading. I promise I won't click onto your pre-37 rides and make snide comments about "termite farms" even though I'm thinking it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

You tellum, Evan.  I, for one, am looking forward to it.

 

  Ben

[kgreen]

1 hour ago, mcdarrunt said:

Did I miss read what this section of the forum is called? I swear it says MODIFIED, that's M-O-D-I-F-I-E-D. It has a V8. that's a modification. An open rear--Ditto. Automatic--Ditto. I guess all some will accept is fuzzy dice and a locking gas cap but in my opinion if you don't want to see real changes that took original thought and even some design/engineering then maybe you shouldn't click the "Modified" heading. I promise I won't click onto your pre-37 rides and make snide comments about "termite farms" even though I'm thinking it.

The post first appeared in the General Discussion of the AACA General Discussion thread, that's where all the venom first appeared.  This thread has since been moved into the Modified forum so we should be safe here.

 

BTW Evan, the valve stem caps are wrong on your car, you should be ashamed ; - )

 

[MrEarl]

Everything’s cool here @mcdarrunt, Gary’s just showing off his spaghetti wiring, and he’s in the right place now, carry on Gary. ?

[mcdarrunt]

All's cool guys; did not realize project was first posted in General Discussion.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

2 hours ago, mcdarrunt said:

All's cool guys; did not realize project was first posted in General Discussion.

 

  You are forgiven, you old fart!

 

  Ben

[Pfeil]

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 2:59 PM, kgreen said:

The post first appeared in the General Discussion of the AACA General Discussion thread, that's where all the venom first appeared.  This thread has since been moved into the Modified forum so we should be safe here.

 

BTW Evan, the valve stem caps are wrong on your car, you should be ashamed ; - )

 

nevermind

[Gary Best]

Gage mock up for 40 Buick

[Beemon]

Who made them for you?

[Gary Best]

Dakota Digital     http://www.dakotadigital.com/ 

[auburnseeker]

Why do guys put digital gauges in Old car dashes? They just don't look right in an old car.  I know it's modified but in doing so it's kind of nice to retain some original characteristics that made the cars what they were.  (even some of the new aftermarket gauges atleast look a tad more fitting with a traditional style). I see these in so many 50's chevy pickups and they look as natural as Hiback bucket seats in a 30's roadster.  

[s_hilmoe]

On 9/15/2018 at 3:40 PM, Gary Best said:

snip........ Also not aware of new overdrive transmissions being adapted to nailheads. Some one may have done that swap but haven't seen one.

  

I just installed a 4l60E in my 61 Invicta with the 401 Nailhead. I got a custom bellhousing from Centerville along with a new flexplate. Since it's an electronic transmission I'm using a Quick2 computer from US Shift. I've also installed a Holley Sniper EFI setup on the stock intake. I hadn't planned on the tranny swap until much later but when the Dynaflow died I went ahead with the swap. The driveshaft is at the driveshaft shop getting shortend by about 8 inches. I can't wait to get it back and try it out.

 

My '49 though is getting a 6.0L and tranny from a 2005  GM truck. I want a more modern drivetrain for many of the same reasons you do.

Edited September 29, 2018 by s_hilmoe
spelling (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

42 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Why do guys put digital gauges in Old car dashes? They just don't look right in an old car.  I know it's modified but in doing so it's kind of nice to retain some original characteristics that made the cars what they were.  (even some of the new aftermarket gauges atleast look a tad more fitting with a traditional style). I see these in so many 50's chevy pickups and they look as natural as Hiback bucket seats in a 30's roadster.  

 

  Different strokes!   Why do some guys like BLONDES? 

 

  Ben 

[Gary Best]

 The reason to build a car vers buying one is the fact you can do it your way.

Thanks Frank S

Edited September 29, 2018 by Gary Best (see edit history)

[Gary Best]

15 hours ago, s_hilmoe said:

I just installed a 4l60E in my 61 Invicta with the 401 Nailhead. I got a custom bellhousing from Centerville along with a new flexplate. Since it's an electronic transmission I'm using a Quick2 computer from US Shift. I've also installed a Holley Sniper EFI setup on the stock intake. I hadn't planned on the tranny swap until much later but when the Dynaflow died I went ahead with the swap. The driveshaft is at the driveshaft shop getting shortend by about 8 inches. I can't wait to get it back and try it out.

 

My '49 though is getting a 6.0L and tranny from a 2005  GM truck. I want a more modern drivetrain for many of the same reasons you do.

Love to see your bubble top? a cool ride.

[Gary Best]

Gages are done. now step two.

[kingrudy]

Gary, this really look fantastic. Can't wait to see the finished product. Do you still have some of the old parts available?

[Gary Best]

On 10/18/2018 at 4:07 PM, kingrudy said:

Gary, this really look fantastic. Can't wait to see the finished product. Do you still have some of the old parts available?

 

I have some guts left from the old gages and other parts off the frame. Will post some pictures soon.

[Gary Best]