Synthetic Oil Question

[AVS619]

My restorer friend was able to repair the 'un-repairable' Remy magneto on my 1909 Regal and the car is running again. But, he put Amsoil synthetic oil in the engine. I know it is a great oil but hard to find where I live and since the Regal does leak oil, it is too expensive, especially when on a tour when the car goes through a quart of oil (sometimes more) a day. Thus, I want to switch to a less expensive, more available, synthetic oil. Any suggestions as to what to use and, can I cause any problems by using something other than Amsoil now that it has already been put in the engine already? Thank you in advance for any information. 

[mercer09]

I use walmarts synthetic tech oil and it is great. Almost the same price as using reg motor oil and gives 1000s of miles of trouble free service.

 

Think of it this way, your worst oil today is better then your best oil 25 years ago.

 

I also use it in my mowers, etc etc.

 

the common complaint today- synthetic is expensive. It doesnt have to be.

[JACK M]

No problems mixing synthetic and fossil.

[padgett]

Do you have non-detergent oil ? (hard to find nowadays). Can switch but should change again after a few hundred miles since may break deposits loose.

 

I use Mobil 1 in all of my cars: 10W30 in most, 0W-40 in the SLK & Crossie. 5qt jug is often under $25 and change filter every time.

[Spinneyhill]

Non-detergent oil is bad for your engine. That is why they introduced multigrades and other additives back in the '40s and '50s. No oil "loosens deposits" but any dirt picked up in the oil ways etc. by a multi-grade will come out at oil change time.

 

ANY synthetic oil is better at reducing wear than ALL mineral oils - shown by wear tests.

 

What about fixing the leaks? It could be cheaper in the long run than pouring oil in the top for it to run out the bottom.

[TerryB]

4 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

 

 

What about fixing the leaks? It could be cheaper in the long run than pouring oil in the top for it to run out the bottom.

I’ve often wondered if you could get a 1909 engine to be very oil tight.  It seems the construction methods of that time was very tolerant of oil leakage.  

[Guest]

The leaky engines saved taxes, they pre oiled the roads.  Less dust too.

[padgett]

Also good for preventing rust. Had a couple of cars long long ago that specified a straight weight non-detergent oil. Now I use Mobil 1 in everything.

[Spinneyhill]

2 hours ago, padgett said:

Now I use Mobil 1 in everything.

Yes, but which one(s). There are many:

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf

[Fleetwood Meadow]

Are there any synthetic oils that have zddp so you don’t have to mix a bottle of it into the oil?

Edited June 27, 2018 by Medd448 (see edit history)

[ted sweet]

his car doesn't need a zzdp additive

[Fleetwood Meadow]

I was asking more for my knowledge. I was told that mine should have it. 

[Bloo]

The Amsoil Z-Rod Synthetic @C Carl is always recommending has zddp. Also, Redline Full Synthetic racing oil has it. Valvoline VR1 Full Synthetic racing oil also claims to have it as well.

 

[Spinneyhill]

You can learn a bit about this a bit by reading Richard Widman's paper on engine oil. Basically, if you want maximum zinc (and phosphorous, the Z and P in ZDDP) in general use a CI-4 diesel oil. CJ-4 has slightly less zinc. A 1909 vehicle was made well before ZDDP was formulated and added to oils and it is not a high performance engine with strong valves springs, so there is an argument that it doesn't "need" ZDDP. But it might benefit from it so I would use an oil with it. Be a bit careful of racing oils - e.g. see the racing oils in the Mobil 1 chart I posted above - they may not be suitable for everyday use. NEVER add ZDDP unless you are familiar with the oil you are adding it too - how much is there already for example. Too much is not good.

 

Another important thing is to use a suitable multi-grade oil, like 5W-30 or 5W-40. The first number before the W (5 here) represents the viscosity behaviour in terms of SAE viscosity bands when the oil is cold, meaning cold starts. Thinner oil is easier to pump so full oil circulation begins sooner in your engine than it would with a straight grade 30 or 40 oil, reducing wear because most wear occurs on startup.

 

http://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html

 

For your information I am using a 5W-40 semi synthetic diesel oil (CI-4 API rated) made by Penrite in my 1930 Dodge Brothers Eight.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Doug Novak]

8 hours ago, Medd448 said:

Are there any synthetic oils that have zzdp so you don’t have to mix a bottle of it into the oil?

 

Yes, I use PENNGRADE  part synthetic sae 15W-40 Green Oil with ZDDP high zinc. Excellent results you can hear when you run the engine.

[Rusty_OToole]

zinc additives were first used around 1950 to prevent cam and lifter wear in the new OHV V8s. Their valve trains were more heavily loaded than older slow revving flatheads.

 

When the pushrod OHV V8s went out of production or got roller cam followers, they took the zinc out.

 

The cars that needed zinc were the OHV V8s with flat tappet cams from 1950 to the 1980s. New engines with overhead cams or roller lifters are ok, and so are really old engines from the flathead era. Their valve trains are lightly loaded and not prone to breaking down the oil film.

[emjay]

Do you want detergent oil if there is no oil filter?  Wouldn't be better for the dirt and gunk to fall out of the oil then to be carried around and around?

[Grimy]

11 minutes ago, emjay said:

Do you want detergent oil if there is no oil filter?  Wouldn't be better for the dirt and gunk to fall out of the oil then to be carried around and around?

YES, YOU DO!  Because the crud just doesn't settle out in the oil pan, it also settles in the crankshaft and other oil passages.  See these photos of crankshaft oil passages and the results of non-detergent oil.

[emjay]

I see, then it's best to incorporate a filter if possible.

[Spinneyhill]

If you have visible particles in the oil, your engine is in trouble and it is time to do something about it. Most of the black stuff in your engine oil is combustion products, mainly carbon, and those particles are minute, clay sized. Those particles will not harm your bearings, unless they are deposited in the oil ways, as shown above. Next time you start the engine they are not picked up again and gradually the engine fills up with muck and oiling is reduced. @Grimy showed a crank shaft full of oil; think of that being in the oil way to the timing gear, in the ring grooves in the pistons gumming up the rings, all over the valve gear and timing gear, inside the oil pickup screen etc..

 

Oil is now designed to hold on to those particles and most of them come out at oil change time. Any larger particles, like metal, will settle out, but it is time to find the source of the metal.

 

If you have no oil filter, change the oil frequently.

 

What does your manual say? Mine (1930) says to change it at 1500 miles in the summer and 500 in the winter. Otherwise (back then), the oil was breaking down and changing to sludge, which doesn't lubricate very well not least because it is very hard to pump around. I change at 1000 mile intervals, although when I get it running again I will probably extend to 2000 miles. I have a factory bypass filter on it but they are NLA hence frequent oil changes. I could probably go to 3000 miles - modern oils are well controlled in their progression to sludge - but oil is cheaper than an early rebuild.

[emjay]

I was trying to establish any remaining advantage of non-detergent or putting in the final nail.  It looks like the final nail.

[Spinneyhill]

There has been no advantage to non-additive oil since additives were introduced.

 

You will probably find the base stock of your non-additive oil is a very poor grade stock.