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1919 Buick Roadster


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On 23 November 2017 at 10:02 PM, Leif Holmberg said:

My 23" ASH wire wheels can be used on the 4 cyl. Buick cars 1922-1924.But I can`t help you about the 6 cyl cars those years.

I made a misstake 8-10 years ago and bought this very good locking outer hub cap but it was wrong size for me,to "big",I think I bought it from "hubcap collector" in AU thru e-bay. This outer cap is the "lock"cap.I payed $120 US including shipping.Probebly the same size as on your wheel Stuart.

Leif in Sweden.

 

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Leif,  That hubcap is the same size as mine which fit the  6 cylinder hubs

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On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 11:35 PM, ROD W said:

Stuart,   I was also wondering about those wheels.   I contacted the same  seller about the  hood/top  and was told it is off a 4 cylinder  which sounds correct as it has an oval window.   So would assume the wheels are off a 4 also.  I don,t know if those hood  frames could be adapted to fit  a six  as I don,t have any for my 25 Master.  Dibalaw ( Larry )  If you see this could you measure  the width of your top frames on your Master and the length from front to back.  My car is out on the farm at the moment and I won,t  get there  for a couple of weeks.

Thanks Rod

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Rod:

 Sorry. I was not checking on this thread. I just saw it tonight. The top on my 1925-45 is..... Total length in up position 94 3/4". Measured with top fabric.DSCF5664.thumb.JPG.0fdab04ea924a3b2a120a0c77c9db218.JPG

Front header bow 53 1/2", 2nd bow 56 1/4", 3rd bow 57 1/4" and rear bow 59 1/4" all bows measured where the bows enter the sockets with out top material. The cut down top on my 1925-25 has all the bows the same width front to back. It should also taper out from front to rear.5a1b8903c13ad_DSCF1317-Copy.thumb.JPG.91b540ab9fa5638c9916a7678f53b7a9.JPG

 I hope this helps:

 Larry

Edited by dibarlaw
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  • 4 months later...

Hi There, 

Just a quick update for those who are at all interested. Progress has been a little slower than I would have liked but is still progress none the less! I have the engine and gearbox removed from the chassis and have a few more bits to remove before the chassis can be blasted ready for rust repairs. Sump is off the engine and everything inside has a nice thick layer of oily carbon mess that has preserved it all nicely! I will be finishing dismantling the engine shortly in the hope that with a thorough clean out I will hopefully be able to piece back together a running unit without too much trouble. I have rebuilt the starter generator unit ready to bolt on further down the line. Unfortunately I am still stuck for a marvel carb as the various boxes of bits that came with the car only contained the little float bowl cover with the brass Marvel Carb plate so if anyone knows of the whereabouts of one it would be a great help to me. I will try to upload some photos with this post.

Gavin.

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Gavin

Thanks for the update on your car.   Progress is never as fast as we would like.   I,m replacing all the shackle bolts,  king pins/bolts and bushes  on my car at the moment as they are  very worn.   This is the carby on the 1920.  I think 1918 would be the same. On the back are the numbers J2H   B.    I visited the fellow who was selling the blue 1919 a month or so back and was able to pick up a spare gear box,  steering box and front suspension.   He also had a complete spare chassis/frame, engine  and running gear for the car but was not prepared to sell it separately from the car.   I can not remember seeing a spare carby.  but will be visiting the new owner next time I,m down his way  and see what spares he has.   Keep an eye out on U.S Ebay.

Rod

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Hi Morgan,

I am very interested in the carb you have for sale if you believe it is complete enough to be rebuilt. Can I get your email address somehow so we can discuss this further and possibly figure out shipping costs etc... your video is very informative also! Where did you find the marvel carb book?

thanks, Gavin.

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Bearing caps off and crank now out. Bearings look relatively good considering their age and still have a few shims in place so will hopefully get another run out of them. Cannot be sure until everything is cleaned and measured though.

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On 3/31/2018 at 8:15 PM, NZ Buick said:

Hi Morgan,

I am very interested in the carb you have for sale if you believe it is complete enough to be rebuilt. Can I get your email address somehow so we can discuss this further and possibly figure out shipping costs etc... your video is very informative also! Where did you find the marvel carb book?

thanks, Gavin.

 

The Marvel carb book is a reprint sold by Bob's automobilia. I'll include that with the purchase, and whatever is left of the carb rebuild kit that I didn't use.

 

I'll weigh it so you can figure out the postage.

Edited by Morgan Wright (see edit history)
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19 hours ago, NZ Buick said:

Bearing caps off and crank now out. Bearings look relatively good considering their age and still have a few shims in place so will hopefully get another run out of them. Cannot be sure until everything is cleaned and measured though.

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Wow, that is an engineering marvel.  How precise the three rectangular openings are for each pair of cylinders. A four bolt rear main bearing cap ( obviously a race version). Oil channels on the con rods. So they might be old cars, but not crude in engineering.

Just my two bobs worth

Rodney ??????

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Has anyone fitted alloy pistons into these engines before? After extracting the first two rods and pistons no.2 has had a gudgeon pin slide along and score the bore at some point in its 100 years of use and abuse and since I may have to do some boring and possibly sleeving because of it I may look at putting some alloy pistons in if anyone knows of some that may fit??

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When I got my '18-E45, 3 cylinders were scored exactly like that. I had it bored and fitted with aluminum pistons. that was almost 50 years ago and it is still just fine.

In my case, I used stock early Corvair pistons. I had to modify the rods and pistons slightly and used teflon plugs at the end ot the wrist (gudgeon) pins to keep them inplace. Obviously the Buick method had its faults and I didnt want any more scored cylinders.

The Corvair compression height (distance from pin center to top of piston) is the same and I think the wrist pin is the same size. About 1/16" overbore and my engine took all of that to get the score out.

However it was a long time ago and I might be off base on some details.

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  • 1 month later...

Quick update for those that are interested. Engine is in a million pieces now and I’m keeping busy cleaning everything up after 100 years of oil sludge and carbon have coated it all! The block is at the machinist being assessed to see what my options are to repair the scored bore.

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  • 1 month later...

Block is back from the machinist now scored bore has been sleeved rest of them just honed as they weren’t too bad. New set of rings including oil ring for bottom which it never had before and pistons all machined slightly for rings to fit properly. Have spent a lot of time bluing and adjusting main bearings to approximately .002” clearance and big ends so rods will just swivel around crank journals under their own weight. One last clean up within an inch of its life and it’ll be ready for reassembly! 

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Gavin,    Thanks for the update.  We all love to see how a restoration is progressing.   In an earlier post, I could see  a round petrol tank.  This is probably out of a later  4 cylinder car as the 6,s had an oval tank. 

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Hi Rod, That sounds about right. It appears I have acquired various Buick parts from various years which I am figuring out as I go. My intention is to try to piece together a 1918/19 roadster as best as I can with the parts I have available. Although this will result in a car that will never win prizes I hope to get a great deal of fun out of motoring it around. My biggest concern at this stage is the body woodwork side of things as I have next to no patterns and haven’t yet been able to find a same year Buick roadster I can look over and under to get a starting point. If this all proves too hard when I get to that stage my plan b is to make some sort of a speedster/special out of it all.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I’m in the process of rebuilding the water pump. What have people made new pump shafts out of in the past? Has anyone tried replacing the old gland seals with new rubber lip seals at all? I only have sawn off pieces of the shaft out of my engine so have no measurements to work with. Also is there a coupling that goes between the two components In the picture below or does the distributor just drive through the dogs?

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You are missing the "Oldham" coupling.  Easier for me to copy you on the thread when mine was missing as there is a lot of information that you can use.   

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Terry gave these dimensions for an earlier one than mine.  See how these compare for you.

Hugh, here is the photo of the coupling that I think you are looking for. 

The dimensions are as follows

-  Outside Diameter - 1.655" 

    Inside Diameter - 1.090"                                                                                                                                                                                                 Thickness - .345"                                                                                                                                                                                         

Slots (4) - .312" wide X .195" deep

Below is the coupling listings as well.

Hugh.  

 

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Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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Here is the water pump shaft you will need.  I would use stainless.  Also attached are my notes on installing a lip seal for my pump that you could modify to meet what you need.  Please note that these are my drawings and the parts that I purchased were based on recommendations, and I have not tried this out yet, so you will need to do your homework or go on blind faith.   As was pointed out to me as well, you will need high quality for the seal, and the basic rubber lip seal will not hold up.     Hugh

 

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Thanks everyone, there sure is a huge amount of information available on this forum! I will need to search through my boxes of bits to see if I have one of the couplings I need but have a funny feeling I will be having to make one to suit at least I now have some measurements to work with. I have managed to get hold of a section of 3/4 inch stainless shaft that I intend to make a new shaft out of once I have pressed the impeller and drive gear off the remnants of the old shaft. I am still undecided if I will try to fit lip seals just yet.

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On my original E-45 Shaft, the area for the gear measures ..861" diameter and the rest of the shaft measures .748" diameter, just a few thousanths under 3/4". I wondered if that is to make it easier to place the generator drive coupling.

These are taken from an original shaft thast was just badly pitted in the seal area.

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Before you turn that shaft, it might be prudent to spec the bearings in which it turns.  For example, you might find that the bearings have an ID on the order of .752", which would mean that they are sized to provide the requisite clearance for a .750" shaft.  You might not want to introduce extra slop by making the shaft undersize (even if that is consistent with the original parts).

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The gear and bushing the shaft rides in are the same diameter on the shaft. (nominally .861"). I'd be inclined to be sure you have enough press on the gear and go from there. That gear has nothing to hold it in place other than its press fit on the shaft. 

My shaft has a woodruff key to drive the gear, so you dont see a keyway in the shaft from the gear end.

The only bearings on the 3/4" diameter are in the pump and those are probably worn. (are you going to replace them?). There would be some latitude on the nominal 3/4" diameter.

For the 3/4" dimension, I'd be inclined to go with a good fit on the S/G coupling  and fit everything else to accomodate that diameter.

 

I questioned the .748" dimension in that it is strange. I measured in many places and came up with the same number. It was .748" where the coupling mounts and that area was "virgin".

 

 

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I have now acquired a small length of 1” stainless shaft that I can hopefully make it out of. I will check to see how worn the bushes are in my pump housings as i don’t see any point in replacing them if I can get away with making the shaft slightly oversize. I have a funny feeling I will be drilling/boring the old shaft out of the impeller as it has been in the press for 3 days now and no amount of heat nor bashing will move it. So have no issues if it needs to be bored out slightly to fit the oversize shaft.

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2 hours ago, NZ Buick said:

I will check to see how worn the bushes are in my pump housings as i don’t see any point in replacing them if I can get away with making the shaft slightly oversize.

 

If the bearings are worn, it may be that they are also slightly egged out.  In that case, it might take more than making the shaft a bit oversized to bring everything into standard tolerances.  Bronze bearings are cheap if you can use (or modify) a standard size.  Even if you have to make your own, bearing bronze tubing is readily available that you can cut, ream, and/or turn to your exact needs.

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Another update, after searching through all of the boxes of parts I found the distributor to water pump shaft coupling washer I was missing so very happy I don’t need to make one now! Still trying to get water pump impeller off the old shaft though. Engine is going back together nicely and after tightening the last two caps this morning I have turned it over for the first time, very excited!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Old and new water pump shafts. I have made the larger end .8615” to match the old shaft size for proper drive gear fitment but have made the smaller section slightly oversize to fit some rubber lip seals I have got and I will bore out the impeller and distributor drive as required and ream out the pump bushes also.

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  • 4 weeks later...

NZ Buick,

I want to pass some information along to you that could save you a lot of grief and aggravation.  When you go to pin the starter/generator coupling to the shaft, the 'Oldham' coupling will be in place.  The coupling uses a taper pin to ease in disassembly if needed.  You will want to leave .040" to .050" total linear gap in that coupling.  If you do not do this the starter armature will not be able to 'motor' as it is supposed to do when the ignition switch is turned on.  In other words things will be in a bind.  The armature has to turn to be able to engage the starter sliding gear.  If things do not go back together in this manner you will be taking things back apart to fix it so it will work properly.  A friend of mine passed this on to me before he passed.  He was helping another friend with his S/G unit and he told me that they did this three times before they figured out what was causing the problem.  Hope this will be of some help for you.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Thanks Terry, information like that is absolutely priceless to someone like me who is trying to piece together a 100 year old puzzle! I have deliberately left that end of the shaft un drilled at this stage so I can set up the coupling with the required clearance once I have the starter generator remounted to the engine. I have been pre occupied doing some study lately but have now just about got the engine ready for the sump to go back on. Only have to replace the old oil pick up screen, install the oil feed pipe and then make some new sump gaskets and it will be ready. 

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NZ Buick,

When you have the engine all back together and ready to set the timing, please post a photo or two and I have some other information that I will pass on to you with regard to that.  My friend, the late Del Carpenter, was extremely helpful to me in the fact that he passed on what he and others had learned the hard way about setting these old engines back together after being torn down.  

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

 

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