1948 New Yorker 2 year road trip

[Spinneyhill]

Your IR thermometer is a simple solution, on the bottom of the sump. In my modern heap, the oil temperature is 90 ^oC on the gauge. The water temperature might be similar. I have never been able to put my hand on the bypass filter in my 1930 Dodge 8, but it would be too hot to touch by 50 or 55 ^oC I suppose.

 

I don't know, but I would expect that after going through a cooler, the oil pressure would be quite a bit less due to friction in the flow so either put it back in the sump or put it somewhere where high pressure is not needed.

 

Leave out the oil stabiliser. The oil already contains whatever they are. You don't need any additives, esp. with synthetic oil! If you want a thicker oil, use one. BTW, Penrite market a 20W-70 for "older vehicles" which seems very viscous to me.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[48NWYKR]

3 hours ago, keithb7 said:

A related point of interest: I just drove the I5 north from San Francisco to Vancouver BC today. Highest point was 4,000 Ft. Although I suspect the quickest route to Mexico is not your preferred route. On my way south, I took I5 to Eugene OR. Then headed southeast through Williamette forest. Through to Klamath Falls & Reno Nevada. I  saw several campgrounds along the way. Plus Crater Lake is on the way! A suggested stop. A fantastic route that I highly recommend. However there were at least 2 mountian passes at just over 5,000 feet each. 

Wow... that happened right after the long weekend? NICE! Sounds very much like the motorcycle trips (4 times) I have taken from here to Laguna Seca in Montery. I have done a few of those stops, It will most certainly be on the cards as my family was not with me for those trips!

[48NWYKR]

4 hours ago, keithb7 said:

When you arrived and backed in, I saw you car was running. You blipped the throttle a couple of times. Tranny in neutral. I saw some puffs of blue smoke come out the tailpipe. Not enough I don’t think, that you could see it while driving the car. I saw it from standing behind your car. 

 

How about the long descent down my hill in Kamloops? Tranny in low range, no throttle, tranny holding car back? Any blue smoke? If I recall it was dark when you left. So again, not likely visible while driving the car. (If there was any smoke). 

 

I never saw any smoke and it was too dark to see behind me going down the hill... but I'm not surprised you saw the puff of smoke, its going out the tailpipe for sure! Just not enough to see all the time. Spinneyhill suggested a 20W-70... I like that idea

What, if any is the difference between a diesel 20W-50 and one made for petrol engines? Would the diesel be more heavy duty and perhaps work better?

 

[Bloo]

The diesel rated oil will probably not be 20w50, rather 15w40. Try some Valvoline 20w50.

[C Carl]

Diesel has very high ZDDP content.  More than you need,and possibly too much. Someone else will have to tell you how much is too much, and the problem it may cause.   -   Carl 

[Spinneyhill]

CI-4 diesel oil has the highest ZDDP. CJ-4 slightly less. Richard Widman discusses it in his paper: https://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html

[48NWYKR]

OK here we go! I'm back! So, updates.... After the very successful trip to Banff I spent a lot of time working on the trailer, we kinda need a place to stay as we travel around right? Anyway I'm not posting any pictures of that because this is not the right place for it.

 

BUT I was driving around town with the old girl and it started making a very loud noise every time you pull away from a light, it was a loud clang, clang, clang, consistent intermittent sound that sounded an awful lot like metal on metal banging together..... I searched high and low to find this awful noise and had no luck, I got listing devises, my buddy sitting on the fender with the hood open while I drive and I just could not pinpoint this bloody noise. I was coming from the rear of the engine kinda by the bell housing area but I could not say for sure. It happens only on acceleration and after you get up to speed it stops.... and then it does NOT do it accelerating in reverse.... at all... until you hit the brakes... then it makes a noise... just dumbfounded... It also does it when parked as soon as you give it gas in neutral, only when you give it gas, as soon as you let off the throttle... it stops. FML.

 

Not seeing anything else wrong I started taking things appart. I pulled the transmission and the bell-housing and started it up again to see if it was more noticeable. Sure enough it was tossing SPARKS out the bottom of the bell-housing!!  Turns out that the starter solenoid spring had failed, causing the starter gear to slide on the shaft hitting the ring gear! That's why it only did it under acceleration and under braking in reverse... it would slide and hit the ring gear and get tossed back & forth as it hit the teeth, that's why it was consistent but intermittent and not a steady clang clang clang. I obviously did not drive it much while it was making that noise so there is very minimal damage to the teeth on both the gear and the ring gear, just slight shiny corners all round!

So I replaced that small spring after pulling the starter and the problem is now solved.. And as a side note, let me just tell you that it is ALMOST impossible the install a 48 Chrysler gearbox by yourself crawling around on a garage floor with only a jack and some hand tools... almost impossible, but I managed. It took a few tries and lots of very savory language and some busted knuckles but its in! She runs once more quiet and smooth

 

I also finished installing the speakers and a second antenna for the 12v radio, the car's original radio is using the existing antenna so I ended up getting a side mount one from a VW Bus! I like the look of it but some purists might frown on it I guess... both radios now work and get great reception! CD player works and we are ready for the road soon!

[r1lark]

Welcome back!

 

Please do post a pic of the trailer -- maybe one with the trailer hooked up to the New Yorker.

[JACK M]

Sure, trailers show up here quite often.

[48NWYKR]

Hello to all, its been way too long and I apologise for that. As the car is almost done and I'm driving it around all over the place I dont seem to have much to complain about! My attention is now elsewhere to get things ready for the trip. The trailer is coming along and we are getting the house ready to be rented, man we have a lot of crap to get rid of or put in storage before we go! Toss into the mix that the in-laws are going to England for three weeks at the end of August and they want my wife to go with to help them (they are 80 so it really is necessary)  and all of a sudden the amount of stuff we need to do before October is quite daunting.... Nevertheless we persevere.   

 

Dam car has one problem though, if you start in 1st gear, it will upshift as it should. If you start in 2nd gear it also upshifts as it should, it also downshifts as it should coming to lights etc. BUT if you start in 1st, shift into high and then clutch for second gear it goes directly to 2nd high and skips 2nd low, and that is at all speeds. Does not matter if I'm crawling or gunning it. So what I have been doing is just jabbing the pedal in 2nd high to get it to downshift.... but that is just silly. I have cleaned the contacts on the gearbox etc. Any ideas? 

[48NWYKR]

Also finally got to meet Tevie and his Termite Taxi - 1947 woody. 80 year old legend around the Vancouver area and all over the states as well, he won an award at the 2014 Concours d'Lemons under the "American pile of crap" category!  

Mechanically the car is maintained really impeccably and he has well over half a million miles on the car, as for the bodywork.... well... that's another story!

[c49er]

Use a governor downshift ground out button to control when the trans will upshift. Drive it like a four speed.

All my Chrysler cars are set up so I control upshift and down shifting the way i want it.

[48NWYKR]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:41 PM, c49er said:

Use a governor downshift ground out button to control when the trans will upshift. Drive it like a four speed.

All my Chrysler cars are set up so I control upshift and down shifting the way i want it.

 

I really like that idea, I must admit though that I took the gearbox out, cleaned it up, put it back in and replaced the wires running to and from with new ones, that is the extent of my knowledge about the entire system. How did you go about setting that up? 

I know there is a kick down switch on the carburetor, do you use that?

[48NWYKR]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:41 PM, c49er said:

Use a governor downshift ground out button to control when the trans will upshift. Drive it like a four speed.

All my Chrysler cars are set up so I control upshift and down shifting the way i want it.

So.... I just did another 750km round trip with Lucy (440 ish miles) and the "on demand" downshift really helps! Granted my solution to this problem is not nearly as elegant as yours and is downright redneck but it works!!! It ait stupid if it works right? Form over function and all of that? not pretty but it does the job? I can go on.......

Vancouver to Kelowna over the pass in the summer heat.... all good! 

I have done roughly 6500km (4000 miles) now and we are actually getting close to our departure date! Time for fresh oil & filters, I am going to switch to straight SAE30 and not a blend this time, I will let you know if the oil usage drops a bit.

[c49er]

I use only straight 30...have for nearly 40 years on my straight 8's.

I tried 10/30  briefly...oil pressure dropped to 25 lbs hot idle...went back to 30W...... 40 lbs hot idle ...50 cruising. I like that. that's what it runs with 30W.

That DS button will do the same as what I use but maybe a little more hand operation! Glad it makes the M-5 more pleasurable to operate and drive.

[48NWYKR]

Getting closer.... new revised date of departure... January 2020.

 

West Coast mirrors installed to tow the trailer!

[48NWYKR]

Cooling is serious stuff down south so I have been told, $20 Home Depot garbage can and a few bruised knuckles later... home-made garbage can cowling...

[48NWYKR]

So the other day Lucy just starts running like poop, pop the hood and the air-filter bracket broke... go figure it's the $15 part from the local auto store, you get what you pay for I guess. I put my new found welding skills to the test and just made one myself!

Only problem is that there is one tiny part of the old bracket unaccounted for...... it's about as big as a grape seed..... most likely down the carburetor.... not sure where it ended up, or if it will cause me grief down the road...

Edited October 21, 2019 by 48NWYKR (see edit history)

[48NWYKR]

Getting lots of miles in, making sure she's good to go... even using the roof rack.

[48NWYKR]

I am sure there will be a few of you who can weigh in on this next one..... the DISTRIBUTOR!!!! YAY!!! oh joy, oh joy, oh joy!!!

 

So, in my relentless quest to get the old girl running as good as can be, and because I'm far to stupid to leave well enough alone... I had a friend hook the old girl up the a proper "timing scope fancy machine thing" (technical term I'm sure).... and he duly told my my engine timing is "inconsistent" Really? well what do you mean??  she runs just fine.... right? 

Turns out that all is not well inside the "rebuilt" distributor from a major online parts store for old Chrysler's... so I start down the road of trying to rectify the problem. And that only led to more problems... allow me to explain..

 

First off there was excessive wear on the guide plate that holds the weights that advance the timing on the distributor. One had worn such a groove that the weight no longer moved but was essentially getting stuck in one spot, and when spun fast enough I guess it would be forced out rapidly instead of smoothly... hence the inconsistent timing.

 

So I fix that with a new plate (best one I could find out of an old distributor) and it runs EVEN WORSE than before....aaaaggghhhhhh!!!!

 

So more digging....

 

And here is where you smart guys can have your say...

 

Turns out, somewhere along the way someone had put a distributor off a 1949/50 onto my 1948.... why is that a problem? I'm glad you asked... turns out that the 1949/50 inline 8's ran a higher compression ratio and the distributor uses a different timing curve than everything before that.

3 degrees v 1 degree on the vacuum advance and so on and so on..... not much but enough to make a difference.

 

I am in the process of building one that would match the lower compression on my 48 right now, taking it easy and driving without the vacuum advance hooked up on the 49/50 distributor.

 

 

 

[countrytravler]

27 minutes ago, 48NWYKR said:

I am sure there will be a few of you who can weigh in on this next one..... the DISTRIBUTOR!!!! YAY!!! oh joy, oh joy, oh joy!!!

 

So, in my relentless quest to get the old girl running as good as can be, and because I'm far to stupid to leave well enough alone... I had a friend hook the old girl up the a proper "timing scope fancy machine thing" (technical term I'm sure).... and he duly told my my engine timing is "inconsistent" Really? well what do you mean??  she runs just fine.... right? 

Turns out that all is not well inside the "rebuilt" distributor from a major online parts store for old Chrysler's... so I start down the road of trying to rectify the problem. And that only led to more problems... allow me to explain..

 

First off there was excessive wear on the guide plate that holds the weights that advance the timing on the distributor. One had worn such a groove that the weight no longer moved but was essentially getting stuck in one spot, and when spun fast enough I guess it would be forced out rapidly instead of smoothly... hence the inconsistent timing.

 

So I fix that with a new plate (best one I could find out of an old distributor) and it runs EVEN WORSE than before....aaaaggghhhhhh!!!!

 

So more digging....

 

And here is where you smart guys can have your say...

 

Turns out, somewhere along the way someone had put a distributor off a 1949/50 onto my 1948.... why is that a problem? I'm glad you asked... turns out that the 1949/50 inline 8's ran a higher compression ratio and the distributor uses a different timing curve than everything before that.

3 degrees v 1 degree on the vacuum advance and so on and so on..... not much but enough to make a difference.

 

I am in the process of building one that would match the lower compression on my 48 right now, taking it easy and driving without the vacuum advance hooked up on the 49/50 distributor.

 

 

 

I have a dist machine and see this problem a lot. This along with the carb has a lot to do in what we call drivability. You will feel the difference. I have both of these machines for fine tuning.

[Bloo]

That looks completely normal to me. Is that distributor Chrysler or Autolite?

 

It can be fairly common for there to be trouble with the advance, but usually due to drag from rust or crud. A drop of oil goes down under the rotor at tune-up time. There should be an oil wick on top. I don't see it.

 

Super-accelerated wear in the mechanism can come from spark energy leaking down through the center of the rotor, so replace it if there is ever any doubt as to it's condition. (Distributor caps, on the other hand can go on almost forever as long as they don't crack or carbon track).

 

Those slots for the pins may need to be smoothed if they have a spot that can catch. Dont over do it, and don't screw with them unless they actually catch after being cleaned up.

 

The one loose weight is a compound curve. That is how you get an actual "curve" instead of a straight line. One spring has a long loop in it (usually). The whole mechanism pulls on one spring for the first part of the curve, and goes pretty fast. Later on (somewhere around 23-26 crankshaft degrees on a lot of more modern V8 powered stuff), it contacts the other spring, and the advance rate slows way down for the rest of the curve, now that both springs are in play.

 

The length of the slots or maybe the ANGLE of the slots determines how much centrifugal advance you get.

 

Have you disassembled it and cleaned it? If you do, and you should, mark EVERYTHING. You want to keep each weight with the same pin it came from, each spring with the weight it came from and each pin in the slot it came from. Don't stretch the springs or their ends, carefully move them around and unhook them, maybe with a pick. Some or all of these things can be adjustments, depending on the design.

 

This is much older than the Chrysler distributors I am used to looking at, so there may be differences but the adjustments are as follows:

 

1) Start point of the mechanical curve: the preload on the small spring (tightness of the ends) and the drag on the pins and slots and upper shaft. On some distributors, one leg the spring is hooked over may be bendable to set this. If the weights have oilite in them, soak them in something fairly harsh (lacquer thinner or MEK), and then soak them in light oil at least overnight. Getting the curve to start consistently can be the most frustrating part. In the late 60s and 70s, Chrysler put super-thin spring steel wave washers on the pivot pins the weights move on. They help a LOT. They would probably fit yours, but you might have to part out a 70s distributor to get them.

 

2) Rate (steepness) of the first section of the mechanical curve: This is set by the spring itself. Fortunately, this is almost always close enough. If not, nothing but a different spring will help.

 

3)Rate (steepness) of the second section of the mechanical curve: This is set by the combination of both springs. If wrong, only a different second spring will fix it. Almost never wrong enough to require a different spring.

 

4) RPM at which the advance curve slows way down: How far the mechanism can move before slowing down is set by the open loop of the second spring. Bending the anchor pin can do this on some distributors, on others the loop must be shortened on the spring.

 

5) Total Mechanical Advance: This is set by the slots. Some distributors have a third pin and slot below for this, but I don't think you will see it on Chrysler. It will be set either by the LENGTH or the ANGLE of those slots. Adjustment is by substituting a different piece, or by brazing the end of the slot and filing it to the correct length.

 

Whew.... and now the vacuum.....

 

If it is one that can be disassembled then.....

 

1) Starting point (in/hg to start moving): Set by preload of the spring (shims under the spring).

 

2) Steepness of curve: Set by the spring itself (no way to change it without a different spring). Almost always close enough.

 

3) Total vacuum advance: Set by whatever washer limits total travel. This is the only thing that likely ever needs screwing with on a stock-type vehicle, although anything is possible.

 

If the can cannot be disassembled, sometimes adjustable ones are available from NAPA that have an adjuster screw up inside the vacuum port. It adjusts preload and total travel with the same screw. Sounds like a kludge, but almost always can hit factory spec. I doubt you can get this for your car but who knows?

 

On normal non-adjustable cans, the only thing you can do is limit total travel by gluing something, usually a washer, under whatever the can uses for a stop.

 

It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that one year is going to make enough difference that the distributor wont work, high compression or not. It probably just needs work. Cleaning, oiling, maybe smoothing down the "notch" a little if it is bad enough to catch.

 

EDIT: Always remember that Crankshaft degrees are twice distributor degrees, in other words 8 distributor degrees is the same as 16 crankshaft degrees. Distributor RPM is half crankshaft RPM (400 distributor rpm = 800 crankshaft RPM). Service manuals can be EXTREMELY obtuse about this, sometimes neglecting to tell you which it is, sometimes even specifying mechanical advance one way and vacuum the other, sometimes mixing crankshaft RPM and distributor degrees and not telling you. You may need to figure it out by process of elimination.

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Countrytraveler: Nice machine! I have a Sun 404, but mine is getting really tired. It still works in a pinch.

[Narve N]

On 8/8/2019 at 5:41 AM, c49er said:

Use a governor downshift ground out button to control when the trans will upshift. Drive it like a four speed.

All my Chrysler cars are set up so I control upshift and down shifting the way i want it.

 

Excellent idea and I want to copy it on my 1940 NewYorker, any picture of a different installation than 48NWYKR made? Will this also ensure engine braking going downhill by shutting out the freewheeling?

[countrytravler]

Here is your theme song.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[JACK M]

Poor thing lost its visor first day out.

[keithb7]

Am I missing something in that video? There was no sound. It's unfortunate that it appears the Plymouth needed a tow truck at least twice in the video. 

@48NWYKR is doing his best to avoid this situation with his wife and 2 kids in the car, a long way from home.

[countrytravler]

17 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Am I missing something in that video? There was no sound. It's unfortunate that it appears the Plymouth needed a tow truck at least twice in the video. 

@48NWYKR is doing his best to avoid this situation with his wife and 2 kids in the car, a long way from home.

No wife and 2 kids in the video. Plays ok at my end. This is not the Chrysler taking a trip. Its the Montana 4 doing the video. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[48NWYKR]

I would be mortified if I broke down like that

[48NWYKR]

Things are wrapping up gentlemen...... The house has been rented for January 1st. So major disasters not withstanding, the end or START is near.

[r1lark]

5 hours ago, 48NWYKR said:

Things are wrapping up gentlemen...... The house has been rented for January 1st. So major disasters not withstanding, the end or START is near.

48, good to hear that all your planning and hard work is close to hearing fruit! I wish all of you a safe and interesting/exciting journey. We have greatly enjoyed your posts on this forum. Will we have to wait a couple years to see how the trip.went, or do you plan on posting occasional updates? (Your journey would make a great book!) 

 

Safe travels!

[48NWYKR]

So, just a quick question as we keep going here....... as you know its getting colder up here, and for the first time EVER the 48 would not start, and let me clarify that statement... -2 Celsius outside, the old girl actually fired up right away, idled for a few seconds and then died, and after THAT would not start. I found out where the problem was, it was not getting fuel, the float in the carb got stuck in the fully up "closed" position and when the fuel in the bowl was depleted it stopped running. I took a giant old allen key I had lying around and tapped the carb a few times to loosen the float and boom, problem solved. It has done it a few times now when parked outside in very cold weather but after I get it going it works fine all day. Now my question is firstly; have any of you experienced this before? and secondly; do you think this is due to the cold and the metal contracting? or something wrong in the carb? 

[48NWYKR]

Also a local reporter heard about our harebrained crazy/stupid plan and came by to do a story on us. It will publish in the Vancouver Sun newspaper on Dec 27th just before we plan on leaving. As soon as I can I will try to get a link to the story for you guys.

We also have an IT guy completing the websites right now and hopefully will have that up and running soon as well!

 

I have also completed the VERY homemade roofrack and spare gas tank salvaged from a 1928 Buick. Pictures to follow soon! 

[JACK M]

An allen key seems to be a pretty handy tool.

But to save weight on your trip an end wrench would work as well.

I sometimes carry a hammer.

You might try a different float valve, I have seen the rubber type (Viton?) stick on occasion.

[c49er]

I have have the same happen to my MoPar inline sixes and eights. Not too often but only when sitting.

All with the rubber tipped needles.

I just lightly rap the nose of the carb hearing the float drop.

This never used to happen...might be the ethanol. I live with it.

I have other things needing attention.

[48NWYKR]

When you just need to move that load of 2x4's......

[48NWYKR]

Here is the roof-rack and extra fuel tank off a 28 Buick. Seems like it should work to me! All in around $200 and my time. All that is left is to install the valve and hose. And maybe an inline filter....

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by 48NWYKR (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Are there any safety concerns with a high mounted fuel tank like that? If it gets punctured, heaven forefend, fuel will run all over the back of the car.

[Bloo]

 Thats the biggest Boyco can I have ever seen.

[48NWYKR]

On 12/13/2019 at 12:59 AM, Spinneyhill said:

Are there any safety concerns with a high mounted fuel tank like that? If it gets punctured, heaven forefend, fuel will run all over the back of the car.

Hope for the best, and better to ask forgiveness instead of permission.... if I was using jerry cans I would spill fuel for sure, this way I at least have a fighting chance of not making a mess. Some over zealous police officer might insist I put a gasoline decal on it or something, but hey its a perfectly legal tank off a real car, at least I did not DIY this one!