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1948 New Yorker 2 year road trip


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One other thing to consider might be adding a Tx cooler up front.

They are relatively cheap and easy to hook up.

Oh, and a pancake fan on a toggle switch.

 

Just thinking how much work that flathead will have to do on the hills, once you get her all loaded up.

 

Mike in Colorado

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As always, Mike makes another good point. I have put vehicles in extreme duty in the tropics over many years. One, a Cadillac 500, used two auxiliary trans coolers, and an engine oil cooler. In addition to high ambient temperature, also consider the very high Sun angle cooking the pavement all day. This re-radiates a very significant amount of heat back into the engine, transmission, and differential. Consider higher viscosity synthetic lubricants, You can get specific valuable information and recommendations from Amsoil, or Mobil 1. Being a pilot, you know how to apply methodical precision, and fly by the book.

 

Overloaded, pulling grades, you MUST drive it like you would a heavily loaded truck. Slow WAY down, gear down, and take your time while enjoying the scenery at a leisurely pace. Tires inflated at max load cold pressure for highway speeds. Aired down for rough or unpaved roads, with commensurate reduced speed. Two spares each for car and trailer. 

 

I don't know if I have already nagged you about driving at night down South ? Well,................  DON'T DO IT !!!!!!

 

I hope you, and particularly your children, have taken the opportunity during the postponement to further hone your Spanish speaking skills. I started learning on my first Mexican road trip adventure with my parents at the age of 10 in 1954. I believe Spanish fluency has turned out to be the most rewarding learned skill in my life.

                                                                                Suerte,      -    El Cadillaquero 

 

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All good points guys thanx!

 

I am already running Amsoil Z-Rod high mileage for older cars, I have 4 new tires on the car and I will have 2 spares, Same for the trailer 4 & 2. The plan is to only do 2 to 3 hours driving a day, no need for 8 hours in the saddle, next town or stop is good enough.

No night time driving...ever.... (emergencies not withstanding).

I looked at oil coolers for the tranny and engine, the engine I can do easily but I already have an aux filter that does some cooling, so I'm on the fence about that one.

As for the tranny, I had a look but I did not see anywhere that I could easily hook up a pressure and return line.... unless you boys know something I dont? It is 70 years old.... not sure it was made to accommodate an external cooler?

 

Pancake fan on a switch... I have two electric fans already, I still need to do some road testing to make sure the cooling works at speed, if you look at the previous posts you will know what I have been through already..... Its still very cold here and not the same as a hot day in Mexico... So far in the garage is good and I think driving will be ok, sitting in traffic not moving on a hot day might not. The alternator already has an underdrive pulley on to make it spin faster but at idle when the fans kick on it does not supply enough current and the amp gauge drops to the negative side, discharging the battery. This is ok here at current temps when the cooling happens relatively easily and quickly, my fear is that the battery would drain if the car had to sit in slow traffic on a hot day due to not getting enough juice at idle....That's without running the AC and radio and phone chargers.... this motor was not meant to idle high, giving it more gas to get the alternator going while standing still makes the motor work harder and get hotter... so some testing is in order. I might have to go back and rethink the mechanical fan... I'm just not sure yet.

 

Online Spanish lessons are happening, sometimes slow but at least its there.

 

 

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Hey 48N, looks like an "N" number on a rudder.

A couple of pages back someone suggested louvering the hood.

Now that I think about it, a set of progressively larger louvers on each side of the hood would really look sharp.

Certainly there are places in SOCAL that could do it while u wait.

 

OR you could stop a "Bob's Automobilia" in Ataskadero, Ca. and pick up a set of '55 Buick port holes.

4 would just fit in front of the chrome side molding. Then you would be a "Windsor Roadmaster".

Plus it would let some heat out and not be just a fashion statement.

 

Mike in frozen Colorado

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Is the M5 similar to the M6 tranny that I have in my ‘53?

 

I am not aware of any moving parts in the M6 transmission that would cause any heat. On the M6 there is one mainshaft gear clutch that engages or disengages for 3rd or 4th gear. There are no wet multiple clutch in a tranny that we generally think of today. There is very little movement at all in there once you put it in gear. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Gentlemen, gentlemen.... The epic saga to cool this beast continues.

 

Step one. Ditch the mechanical fan, install 2 electric fans and build a great shroud, the result ; Cools great at idle and in traffic but creates to much restriction on the highway and gets to hot.... 

 

Step two. Ditch the shroud and mount the 2 electric fans directly to the radiator, the result ; Works great on the highway but does not cool enough sitting in traffic...

 

Step three.... I s*^t you not.... Ditch the electric fans and rework the AC mount to PUT THE MECHANICAL FAN BACK!!! FML...

 

The result of step three is excellent cooling at idle AND on the highway, BETTER than I ever got with the electric fans. (I did NOT test it with the AC rad in place, I took it out to work on the car.)

I guess you can't always improve on a good design.

 

I do think that the fans I bought might have been WAY to small and under-powered. Maybe had I spent a bit more on better fans? Anyway what is done is done now.

 

So I have just come back from the garage and installed the AC rad and one of the electric fans IN-FRONT of the radiator as a pushing fan still hooked up to the temp switch. Idle temps are very good in the garage but I will drive it in traffic soon to see if the extra rad and fan makes things worse. If it does I will need to find another way to mount the AC rad or just spend the $$$ and get a skookum fan... time will tell I guess.

 

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I'll bet your AC will work well with a fan to help the cooler along.

How much distance between the rear of the ac unit and the eng radiator ?

Looks like 3-4 inches, and that's a good thing.

 

I know it is a bit pricy but you should talk to your local radiator shop and see if they have a "bus" type core.

Usually a 4 row or even a 5 row core that would fit your header tank.

I would add coolant capacity though.

 

Mike in Colorado

 

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Is your water pump a "Brand New" replacement pump or rebuilt pump.

I don't see the original two zerk fittings....no drilled spot for them.

I'm curious as to how good the new 1946-50 Chrysler replacement pumps being made hold up.

Edited by c49er (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, FLYER15015 said:

I know it is a bit pricy but you should talk to your local radiator shop and see if they have a "bus" type core.

Usually a 4 row or even a 5 row core that would fit your header tank.

Yeah I did look into getting a new core, but both shops I spoke to including the shop that cleaned and tested my rad said that with the unique shape of this radiator the cost on replacing the core and using the old tanks would just be astronomical, it is slanted on 4 sides and apparently a ton of work.

As for the gap between the AC rad and the car's rad its only about 1.5 inches... however if that proves to be a problem on my next test drive I can easily move it further away from the rad, I have another 7 inches I can move it forward if I have to.

Time will tell.

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50 minutes ago, c49er said:

Is your water pump a "Brand New" replacement pump or rebuilt pump.

I don't see the original two zerk fittings....no spot for them.

I'm curious as to how good the new 1946-59 chrysler replacement pumps being made hold up.

Hey Bob, I found this guy on Ebay, its American made, brand new casting, with a permanently sealed bearing that does not need to be greased.

The casting looks to be of real good quality, no rough edges or questionable spots, all nice uniform and smooth. The machined parts are super clean and smooth as well, not rushed, the impeller itself also looks good and the bearing had a solid feel to it.

Overall I was pretty impressed with it, it bolted right up and matched the engine perfectly. it seems to do the job quite well. That being said if I have any trouble with it in the next few thousand miles I will let you know. 

Again time will tell how well it will hold up.

Do you have any idea if the extra pulley running the AC compressor will add any strain on it?  The stress point is not directly over the bearing like the belt running off the crank and alternator but slightly forward of that... I just wonder if that will affect bearing life or not?

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On 3/14/2019 at 9:54 AM, JACK M said:

I think you need more mirrors.

For sure! I am looking on Ebay for a set of older towing mirrors that mount to the fenders or doors! I'll keep you in the loop.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So I have a buddy who is wicked smart and studied fluid dynamics and all that stuff for his engineering degree and I asked him about my cooling system, here is what he had to say...

 
Think about it this way you now have two fans that are dissimilar .... you are essentially trying to operated two pumps in series, I.e. you are trying to pump a pump... therefor the velocity of the air/fluid will not exceed above whichever velocity is the lowest.... because you have such a small gap between the 2 rads, the velocity decrease from v1 to v2 is not enough to allow v1 to create a vacuum and suck the air through the engin rad, hence the velocity increase from v2 to v1 will be minimal and essentially you limit the airflow velocity to v2 for both the rads.... and hence there is not enough air flow through the car rad.... so I would move the AC rad as far forward as possible to create a pressure drop in front of the car rad....
 
My take-away is that if I had one strong fan to run the entire system I could put them really close, I don't have that so I must put them really far apart so that they can work independently from each other... allowing the car rad to suck in air from around the other one... I will wire the AC rad fan on another switch so that it comes on when the AC is turned on.
 
Test drives have shown the car can sit in traffic or on the highway and stay cool! best temps since I started this entire debacle! 
 

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Edited by 48NWYKR (see edit history)
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Took the old girl out to set the headlights as per the manual.... do you know how hard it is to find a 35 foot level pad close to a wall where you can park and not be in anyone's way around here?? Got lucky at the local Superstore's loading bay late at night :)

All good now, I can see the road again!

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48N,

You have a smart friend, and he is correct regarding "pumping a pump".

Spacing them out will obviously help the engine fan draw in air around the ac coil.

Fortunately you have a very large grille opening to gather in fresh air.

 

Have you considered a bigger pancake fan behind the main radiator instead of the regular engine fan ?

It would give you more horsepower to run the ac unit.

 

One minor consideration might be to relocate your fog lights further outboard so as to blank out as little flow as possible.

 

Part of my overheating on the '40 Buick was that I had 2 big Trippe lights and 2 fog lights sitting across the grille opening,

and they blanked out the flow in a much smaller grille opening.

 

Also, on all my "drivers" the first thing I do is to hang a 2'x3' piece of nylon door screen across the front of the radiator, to keep the bugs out of the fins.

Very easy to blast the screen when I wash the car.

 

Just thinking...........

 

Mike in Colorado

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So guys, the cooling problems have been solved, but after a few good runs on the highway I have a question....

 

When scooting down the road at a brisk pace under a heavy foot... basically high rpms - speed does not matter, it can be first gear, or top gear but as soon as the motor hits the upper rpms it develops a slight intermittent stutter..  just these small blips in what is supposed to bee a very smooth run. Its not huge but you can feel and hear the hesitation (very slight but noticeable)  AND you can do this in the garage by poking your head under the hood and just manually throttling the car to hold a high rpm.... it will go vrooooooooom blip vroooooooom blip blip vroooooooom blip vroooooooommm and like I said not big, just very small blips.... (you can totally see me at the computer making engine noises right now cant you? lol... I am....)

 

I have new spark plugs / new plug wires / new points / condenser, the timing and points were set as per the book, the vacuum advance does its job, no leaks in the vacuum line, the carburettor has been rebuilt, the float set / new fuel filter / electric fuel pump / new air filter / idle set with a vacuum gauge as per the book ( I get 525 rpm at 20 inches) the valves have been set / exhaust flapper valve works just fine.... new exhaust front to back...

 

I dont know if I'm dealing with a fuel problem.... or a spark/timing problem.... any thoughts?  I will tell you that she will do 75 mph though :) thirsty at that speed I'm sure but she will do it!

 

Your help and insight will be appreciated as always... thank you!

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45 minutes ago, FLYER15015 said:

Do the fly weights in the dist move freely ?

Turn the 2 mixture screws out 1/2 turn and see if it repeats.

 

Mike in Colorado

 Hey Mike, I plan on pulling the distributor out again for a quick check but it was rebuilt so I hope its all good in there, as for the carb mine is a single barrel, fixed jet, non adjustable carburetor. The only screw is for the idle mixture and that is set properly and is completely bypassed during driving and should not affect it at all. Its also super clean inside and outside with no built up gunk or varnish, it was rebuilt as well.

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3 hours ago, FLYER15015 said:

It would give you more horsepower to run the ac unit

Please explain how this works. The engine either drives its own fan or generates electricity to drive the fan. Either way, it takes power. I would guess it takes more power to make the electrickery than it does to drive the fan, due to losses in generation.

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Spinney,

Ever see an engine driven fan on a modern race car ?

Whatever little EMF it takes to drive a pancake fan, is a whole lot less than the Horse power it takes to swing that big honking fan bolted to the water pump.

That's why they put thermostatic clutches on the fan a few years back to save gas, and now even my minivan has a pair of pancakes. Of course the motor is sideways.

 

Mike in Colorado

Edited by FLYER15015 (see edit history)
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Hey 48N !!!

I sure hate to give Spinny another "like" ('cause he's batting 20% now), but he pulled up an EXELLENT article on FANS that you should take to heart.

Option #1 would be to go to an aluminum flex fan on the H2O pump.

#2 would be to put a pancake 20" fan BEHIND the radiator, (just like all the hot rod "duces" do).

 

This would be a good way to reserve some engine power for that AC compressor.

 

Mike in Colorado

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Well I spent yesterday calibrating the fuel gauge and today I will grease everything and give it a good "look" over. Thursday we take the old girl to Banff AB for our long weekend test run. Over the mountains and through the rain... hopefully no snow. 

Roughly 820km each way.. so just over a 1000 miles round trip for you non metric folks :) If a 1000 miles does not shake out the bugs, noting will....right? I will report back on fuel and oil consumption when I get back. (hopefully we make it back...BCAA is paid for right??)

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Edited by 48NWYKR (see edit history)
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Thanks guys, I will let you know how things went when I come back.

And since this is BC and it rains pretty much whenever it wants to.... And the old stock wiper arm springs were not really doing much at all, I installed these nifty little buggers to change the stock wiper mounts to something I can mount new style wiper blades on! better springs better blades, I hope I can see clearly now... Its supposed to rain 40mm when we leave in the morning... great start right? first trip buckets of rain, sounds about right as things go in my life!! lol...

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I found a 12v electric wiper set up from newportwipers.com.

They don't list for Chrysler but I modified the Dodge kit to fit. (the firewall is different, If I recall I had to make or modify a bracket)

It may be a troublesome modification with the dash in place. But I got mine working.

 

I have lots of stock wiper parts if anybody is looking.

Edited by JACK M (see edit history)
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Well here we are... it was a great long weekend! Fun was had and miles were driven! The trip took us from Surrey BC to Banff Alberta and back with a stop in Kamloops for the VCCC's 49th annual Easter Parade.

That means a fully loaded car (my wife has a tendency to over-pack) from sea level up to 5250ft and back through the Coquihalla pass AND the historic Rogers pass TWICE. Crawling from light to light in a car parade for miles on end through downtown Kamloops with NO heat problems. Cooling SORTED!!!

The trip up was in the rain as expected... 12 hours straight rain... non stop.. not even joking... :( at least the wipers worked beautifully! After that the sun came out and all those bad feeling disappeared :)  The last stretch saw us battling a very, very strong headwind the entire way from Kamloops home.

All in all a resounding success, people were always interested and eager to talk about the car and downright amazed that at 71 she could make that kind of trek!  

 

Fuel consumption was abysmal, oil usage was excessive and overall it felt like the car lacked power even though my compression test was considered spec.

The slight intermittent stutter at high rpms disappeared after the first 100kms and never returned, possibly some carbon? causing detonation? spur on the points? who knows...

Cruising comfortably at around 85km/h, there was also the last 110km from Salmon Arm to Kamloops done at 105 to 110km/h and Hope to Surrey done at 70 to 75km/hr, the car runs happy either way.  Top speed was 115km/h, I wanted to see what she would do but my wife started voicing her immense displeasure at my behavior when we hit 115 and I never got to see how fast she would go...maybe next time, without the wife ;) 

I did find oil pressure was lower after running at 100km/h for a while, possibly getting too hot and too thin? Change the oil? Add in an oil cooler? that should help?

Power wise, if you could get it up to 90km/h+ before the hill and you got the rpms up high you would keep your speed and sail up the hills, hit the same hill at anything under 80km/h and you slowed to a relative crawl...

I'm talking fully loaded semi truck up the hill type of crawl. As soon as the rpms dropped there was not enough power to wind it up again, downshifting worked... but only till the rpms got so high that you were forced to shift into high again and then the drop in rpm was too much and you stopped speeding up again. More than likely a timing problem.

The airbags made the ride super comfy, steering feedback and road holding was very good, no wandering, bouncing or floating all over the place, very solid with a good solid feel.

The pick-up truck tires were not as smooth or as a nice set of cruising radials and felt a bit utilitarian, or dare I say "truck like" (No REALLY??) but that was expected and I am willing to put up with it for the durability and strength of the 10ply. 

The brakes were exemplary and performed better than expected.. coming down the Rogers pass with a 4200lb vehicle is no joke but it worked as well as any modern car!

 

Having said all of this I feel that it was a success all around and I have a very strong feeling that all my fuel and power problems are a direct result of my inexperience at tuning these old cars.

Proper dwell angle, total timing and a different kind of oil might improve all of these issues a LOT! 

More tests and experiments to follow!

 

My wife and kids are totally hooked now and they are already planning the next "test run" to sort things out before we leave on our big adventure! 

 

Distance travelled tracked with 2 separate GPS devices.
 
Fuel stops listed below.
 
                  Odometer                                        
Full tank    02151 miles,      0km       Trip start
21 litres     02235 miles,  125km        125km
35 litres     02368 miles,  201km        326km
40 litres     02510 miles,  215km        541km
26 litres     02607 miles,  147km        688km
50 litres     02761 miles,  225km        913km
32 litres     02890 miles,  198km        1111km
27 litres.    02990 miles,  147km        1258km
46 litres     03156 miles,  248km        1506km
29 litres     03238 miles,  106km        1612km
30 litres     03355 miles,  175km        1787km 
11 liters     03401 miles,    66km        1853km Total.

347 Total liters used. 
91.68 Gal US 
76.33 Gal UK imperial 

Avg. Consumption 5.34km/lt
12.50 miles/gallon US
15.08 miles/gallon imperial 
 
Oil used 6Lt... 

1853km or 1153 actual miles / 1250 indicated miles on the odometer.

Incidentally as you can see the odometer OVER reads but the speedometer UNDER reads by about 10 miles/hour. When driving at 55mph indicated on the GPS tracker the speedo only shows 45, but the odometer still adds up to more than you did. It all makes sense when you factor in that the new tires are smaller in OD than the old bias ply tires I had on there.
 
I'm sure this old girl can do better on the fuel numbers, more work needs to be done.
 
As for the 6Lt of oil used, I think switching to a straight SAE30 or maybe a 20W40 or a 20W50 would improve that a lot. The oil was used without any visible smoke coming out of the tailpipe while driving and no it did NOT leak out... no oil leaks detected on this car, even the garage floor is dry!
 
The pictures are still downloading I will post more soon...
 
 
 
 
 

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Edited by 48NWYKR (see edit history)
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What is happening now has little to do with what will be happening way down South. Up to 100 F or more, with the Sun directly overhead, pavement temperature you have never seen constantly re-radiating into every mechanical component in line-of-sight : fun stuff !!! Get a MASSIVE oil cooler, perhaps aviation surplus, and run 20W/50 full synthetic. At least 140 in the rear end, frequent lube with synthetic grease. And slow down going into headwinds in the heat. You will enjoy some locations with elevations above approximately 4000' or so. Remarkable relief from the heat.   -   Carl 

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8 hours ago, normanpitkin said:

switching to straight 30 will help

How? The car is on 10W-30 so it is an SAE 30 at running temperature. 20W-50 sounds like the next trial to me!

 

I wish I could get 15 mpg or 18.7 l/100 km as we do it! My Dodge 8 is giving me about 10 mpg or 28 l/100 km so just driving into down and back costs me 14 L of fuel or about $28.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)
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A related point of interest: I just drove the I5 north from San Francisco to Vancouver BC today. Highest point was 4,000 Ft. Although I suspect the quickest route to Mexico is not your preferred route. On my way south, I took I5 to Eugene OR. Then headed southeast through Williamette forest. Through to Klamath Falls & Reno Nevada. I  saw several campgrounds along the way. Plus Crater Lake is on the way! A suggested stop. A fantastic route that I highly recommend. However there were at least 2 mountian passes at just over 5,000 feet each. 

 

When you arrived and backed in, I saw you car was running. You blipped the throttle a couple of times. Tranny in neutral. I saw some puffs of blue smoke come out the tailpipe. Not enough I don’t think, that you could see it while driving the car. I saw it from standing behind your car. 

 

How about the long descent down my hill in Kamloops? Tranny in low range, no throttle, tranny holding car back? Any blue smoke? If I recall it was dark when you left. So again, not likely visible while driving the car. (If there was any smoke). 

 

I too like the idea of an oil cooler. This also has the benefit of more oil capacity. Meaning the oil should retain it’s good anti-wear properties a litte longer. 

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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21 hours ago, C Carl said:

What is happening now has little to do with what will be happening way down South. Up to 100 F or more, with the Sun directly overhead, pavement temperature you have never seen constantly re-radiating into every mechanical component in line-of-sight : fun stuff !!! Get a MASSIVE oil cooler, perhaps aviation surplus, and run 20W/50 full synthetic. At least 140 in the rear end, frequent lube with synthetic grease. And slow down going into headwinds in the heat. You will enjoy some locations with elevations above approximately 4000' or so. Remarkable relief from the heat.   -   Carl 

Hey Carl, I'm trying to heed all the warnings about the heat, Running Penzoil ATF in the gearbox, 85W140 in the diff and steering box and using a very heavy duty grease for everything that moves. I also make sure I keep it greased! After the drive up to Banff in the rain I was lying under the car in the hotel parking lot with my grease gun the next morning making sure its all good! (In my good clothes, much to my wife's dismay I forgot my coveralls)

 

22 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Before putting on an oil cooler, perhaps put a temperature gauge in the oil and find out what is actually happening.

I have not taken the temp after a good run but I think you are on to something, It can't hurt to know how hot it actually gets! Does it have to be INSIDE the sump or would a laser temp from the outside be good enough? All I can say is that its extremely hot when you touch the filter, no way you are holding your hand there for very long. Even without knowing I still think a cooler is a good idea, hear me out, since I can't feed the cooled oil directly into the overhead valve system through the filler cap like on a modern engine I would be taking hot oil from the high pressure side, cooling it and adding it into the sump of hot oil... hopefully cooling the oil in the sump enough to make a difference after if goes through the oil pump. What I'm trying to say is that I dont think it will be that efficient at introducing cool oil directly to moving parts, it would have to go through a bunch of hot parts first, so overall cooler oil but not cool enough to the point where its too cold... or am i over thinking it? 

 

My Chrysler guru up here said he had similar oil problems in his old car and running straight 30 made a big difference, his old engine just worked better on un-blended oil. Another hotrod buddy of mine got 2 extra summers out of his Charger switching to straight 30 before having to pull the motor for a rebuild. However, having seen the inside of this motor and making the questionable choice to NOT to rebuild it, knowing that clearances were barely inside spec, factoring in the extra heat of being down south... 20W50 sounds totally reasonable to me... or a 20W40 and a quart of Lucas heavy duty engine oil stabiliser... I'll sleep on it for a bit.

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8 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

I wish I could get 15 mpg or 18.7 l/100 km as we do it! My Dodge 8 is giving me about 10 mpg or 28 l/100 km so just driving into down and back costs me 14 L of fuel or about $28.

 

16 hours ago, normanpitkin said:

I have owned my 48 new yorker in the uk for 11 years ,15mpg sounds about right.

 

Wow that does not foster much hope for my multi thousand mile trip...... I might have to sell the house to pay for the fuel!

I mentioned that the fuel usage was excessive simply because I drove the car all over the place before pulling it apart and although I don't have exact numbers because the odometer was known to be a bit off I just never used this much fuel traveling around in her before! Vancouver to Seattle, Vancouver to Whistler, Vancouver to Harrison Hot springs... and it never hit me this hard. It has the single barrel carburetor on it so someone already switched it from the double to save fuel... this has to improve! 

Can you say engine swap? Crate motor LS3 if I win the lottery or I will have to settle for an old Ford inline six with a 5spd manual box....hmmm I'll be able to swap everything to 12v then.....

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