Relining Brake Bands - Self or Hire out?

[Stude Light]

I just have not been able to get rid of brake squeal on my service brakes which have an externally contracting band around the rear drums.  When I restored the car (1923 Studebaker Light Six) I did not reline the bands as someone else had recently had that done and they were barely worn.  The linings they used have a metallic woven material imbedded. The drums are in great shape and I sanded the OD to get rid of any glaze a couple of times in my attempts to eliminate the squeal.  I have re-adjusted them per the book for proper clearances, beveled the edges, balanced the rods to get left/right the same, and resort to using my emergency brake often so I don't have to hear the noise.

 

After talking to the brake experts at GM (I work there) I was told that the friction interface is very critical for noise issues as that tends to vibrate the mass (drum) so they recommended either adding mass, which I can't do as the emergency brake has internally expanding shoes, or come up with a different friction interface - either the drum or brake lining.  So the brake lining material is the obvious choice.  I would like to try a non-metallic material.

 

Since I have never relined brakes before, I either send the bands out to someone that does (and risk shipping damage/loss) or do them myself.  Any recommendations as to a company in southeastern or mid-Michigan that does this?  Or should I just do it myself? If so, I'll need advice on where to buy material and rivets (and type of rivets).  Thanks for any help.

Scott

[Matt Harwood]

It might be apples and oranges, but when I was building high-performance Corvettes, some of the brake pads we used tended to squeal and squeak pretty badly. The solution was to get them hot then park the car and let it cool naturally. Now, I know big discs and ancient external drums are two different things, but brake squeal is usually caused by the pad/shoe material. If you can safely do it, perhaps drag the brakes for a half-mile or so on your way home one day, get them really hot, then park the car and don't drive it again until they've fully cooled. In many cases, it's the semi-metallic compounds that cause the squealing and heating them up significantly (I mean until you can smell it) really seems to help.

 

Maybe it'll work here. Doesn't hurt to try, right? Failing that, yes, a change of material might be in order. Modern compounds on old brakes aren't a good combination. If you can find some NOS material from the '30s or '40s, it would probably cure the squealing and work better.

 

Hope this helps!

[Rusty_OToole]

Have you tried applying the hand brake lightly with the service brake? This should kill the squeal. Not ideal but something you can do right away.

[Stude Light]

Yes, the hand brake applied simultaneously work's (affects the effective mass from the engineering equation) but I don't like having to reach over and losing my right hand to take care if the shifting.

 

I haven't tried the overheating method. Hate to burn all the paint off the back of the bands and edges of the drums.

[Spinneyhill]

I am sure I have read on these fora somewhere that external brake bands should be lined with a soft material (as it was in the '20s) for best performance. Today's lining materials are too hard with too much friction. I have no experience, just parroting what I have read... I think.

 

Lets postulate a little. Is it possible the linings are grabbing and releasing the drum at high frequency causing the squeal? The stiffness and elasticity of the brake band backings and all attached parts makes them unable to smooth and control this grip-release-grip-release sequence and a vibration is set up. Adding mass will lower the frequency as you say, but what about preventing the process? It seems to me the problem is the lining material and drum surface are not compatible and the linings are not just rubbing on the drum but grabbing it. If this is the case, new lower friction (softer) linings would help.

 

I seem to remember cans of spray-on stuff professing to stop brake squeal. Maybe that is a first port of call to try while you locate some appropriate lining material? If you read the can and the MSDS you might find it is some kind of friction modifier.

[nickelroadster]

If your brakes were lined with modern material, They will eat the drums up quite quickly.  These brakes should be relined with the same type of material that they originally had.  You should first determine if they have this.  

[dictator27]

What nickel roadster said.  Replace the linings with soft woven lining (still available because it is used in industrial equipment).  With two wheel brakes I would definitely use both the hand and foot brake to stop the car - you need all the help you can get.  

 

Terry

[studeboy]

From a previous post on this forum. McMaster Carr sells the right type of lining material used in industrial situations.

[Friartuck]

Contact a clutch rebuilding service. I'm assuming the material was riveted on. If doing yourself, Big Flats Rivets should have what you need.

[Chris Coon]

You can do it yourself, it's not that tricky.  Get the right rivets, and the right countersink drill bit.  Take your time and mark the location of the old lining so the new stuff starts and ends in the same location. Sometimes I have "glued" the lining onto the band before drilling and installing rivets.   

 

[MikeC5]

I used McMaster-Carr lining on my Dodge's external contracting brakes and have been happy so far.  No squeal.  Here's a link with some photos.  It wasn't too difficult to do but make sure you get the right drill diameter and spot face tool.

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/201925-doing-brake-linings-on-a-25/#comment-1026998

 

 

 

[nickelroadster]

The ford dealers (either Langs or Snyders) has a little brake riveting setup with the countersunk drill bit and the proper punch to do the riveting  for $25.

[Stude Light]

Thank you to everyone for all the great info and Mike for the step-by-step photos.  Guess I'll get with McMaster-Carr, Snyders, etc. to order up some material and tools.  My linings are 45" x 2" x 3/16" so now I just need to pull a wheel and check the rivet diameter.  Working length of the rivet after peening is probably around 5/32" so I'll get a couple different lengths in the 5/16" plus/minus range.  Thanks again.

Scott

[cahartley]

You can probably have them lined cheaper than you can do it yourself if you send them to the Clutch Doctor in North Branch, MN.

 

https://www.yelp.com/biz/clutch-doctor-north-branch

 

He does terrific work, is very reasonable.and has what I think is the fastest turn-around I've ever experienced........  

[Stude Light]

UPDATE.  Thanks everyone for the advice.  I took cahartley's recommendation and reluctantly sent my brake bands out to the Clutch Doctor to get re-lined.  My reluctance was shipping parts that would take me a long time to find replacements should they be lost by the USPS, so I packed them really well and labelled the bands with my address just in case. Trevor Olson at the Clutch Doctor called me once he received the parts and we discussed the options.  He found the appropriate lining material and sent the parts back in just a few days.  The change in lining material solved my squeal problem with no loss of braking efficiency as I can still lock the rear wheels up on dry pavement, if needed, using just the service brake....and no brake noise.  I would agree that the Clutch Doctor does excellent work, with really fast turn around and the price was very reasonable....cheaper than me doing it myself as I would need to buy the correct countersink with the brake material and rivets (if that gives you any idea of how reasonable it was). Gets a recommendation from me!

 

Scott

[lump]

I inherited a 1923 Hupmobile touring car when my parents were lost in a tragic accident. In their attic I found some spare parts, including rolls of brake lining, rivets, and a rivet-setting tool. I have often wondered how difficult it might be to reline the external bands, whenever it becomes necessary. It seems simple enough, but I worried if it might be tough to compress the coils of friction material enough to get it to lay "flat enough" etc?  

 

I also wondered how much asbestos is in that material, and how dangerous that might be? Conversely, I wondered if the material I have might be hard to find these days, due to restrictions on asbestos? 

 

I understand that the government has slightly changed its stance on the danger of asbestos in recent years, and that many brake linings for modern cars may still have some asbestos content. And I was exposed to asbestos in the air many times years ago, when I was an apprentice sheet metal worker. Thus I am not totally panicked by the possible presence of a little asbestos. Yet, I wouldn't want to be foolish and careless about it.

 

Now that I have seen this info from Stude Light, maybe I will just choose to use Clutch Doctor or some other supplier when the time comes, and eliminate all these concerns. 

 

Thanks, Stude Light.