Analyzing a 1932 Ford Coupe (rookie looking for perspective)

[Guest UCL]

Hey guys.  Looking to get smarter at understanding the things I should be looking for when assessing a 1932 Ford Coupe that's been fully redone from head to toe.  It is one of two classic cars that I'm genuinely interested in, but I need to do my homework.  Here's a case study for the forum.  See link to specific car I checked out in person earlier today:  1932 Ford

 

Now, it's a gorgeous car that's had serious work out into it.  They mentioned it was a $131,000 build, which was purely a labor of labor.  They are asking 65k now as I guess the seller is looking to move it quickly for personal reasons.  Here are my questions:  1.)  With the exception of the hood, the entire body is fiber glass.  Is that bad?  Less desirable?  Depends?   2.)  When determining "value" and whether it's worth the price, what are the key factors I should be looking at?  Does this price feel high, low or about right?  What are some things I should want vs. things I should avoid.  3.)  I've recently heard that the muscle car / classic car market is a bit soft.  Is that true?  Good time to buy or no?

 

More than anything, I'm just looking for true gear heads to share their thoughts of what they see when they look at at car like this.  The perspective will help me calibrate how I should look at things and what I should truly be keeping an eye out for.

 

Any insight would be genuinely appreciated.  Thanks for your time.  

 

Rich

[Matt Harwood]

So it's a hot rod with a fiberglass body? I wouldn't be surprised by the $131,000 build price, because that's what you pay a shop to build a car for you from scratch using parts from a catalog. What's it worth? The same as every other 'glass 3W coupe, and there's a pretty hard ceiling on fiberglass cars at about $50,000. To be honest, regardless of build cost, $65K still seems like a lot for a plastic car. Yes, fiberglass is much, MUCH less desirable than a steel body, although around here, I bet most people will be glad that no real '32 Fords were harmed in the building of this car. Nobody put any real "work" into the car. The parts were purchased from a catalog, painted, and assembled into a car that resembles a '32 Ford. Nothing was hand-made, custom built, or fabricated during that build, except maybe the interior. It's not quite a kit, but it's not far off, either.

 

The problem with rods is that they're all built to one guy's specific tastes, good or bad. Throw out the price guides, they don't tell you anything about a car like this. Without even looking, my guess is that it has a 350 Chevy with a carburetor, an automatic transmission (4-speed with overdrive if you're lucky, but probably a crappy TH350), a 10-bolt rear or a Ford 9-inch, and a ton of bolt-on shiny stuff under the hood. EVERY SINGLE ONE is built that way. They're all the same. Pick the color you like and buy that one. There are plenty for $30K that are 80% as nice as this $131,000 one with the same hardware and the same driving experience. You can't judge "the market" by one car, but "the market" is literally flooded with plastic 1932 Ford 3-window coupes.

 

Figure out what you want in a hot rod. Personally, I wouldn't buy one that doesn't have fuel injection, A/C, and an overdrive transmission--all have been commonplace for decades, there's no reason to be using 1960s parts in a modern build, but most guys don't bother because it costs extra. If you like the look of a '32, look at all of them for sale and buy the one that best balances features you want with price. I'm sure a car that cost $131,000 to build is beautifully done, but it's still just a 'glass box, and it's not even close to being done depreciating and will never, ever be treated as a collectable. Eventually it'll just be a dated, used rod nobody wants because they'd rather build their own. Hot rods are just about the worst possible automotive "investment" I can imagine. Only orange Lamborghinis depreciate faster.

 

If you want to spend that kind of money and have it be the kind of thing that holds its value, I'd recommend finding a real 1932 Ford V8 that hasn't been modified. It will ALWAYS be worth at least what you paid.

[Jon37]

Well, for starters, this isn't a "classic car" in the sense that that terminology is used hereabouts..  It's a street rod and while I'm sure it's a very well done job, you've probably come to the wrong place for an opinion. 

 

We're a antique car forum, and this is not an antique car.  Certainly there are some here who also are knowledgeable in the realm of street rods, and they may be able to voice an opinion.  Especially in the matter of market softness for muscle cars (which are antiques, so long as they are restored to original condition).  

 

You may be better off going over to the H.A.M.B. board ("The Jalopy Journal") and asking their opinion. And I'm sure there are many other forums and bulletin boards that are also devoted to cars like this.  The average denizen of the AACA board is trying to fix his car up to be as "factory" as possible; street rodders and customizers are aiming to make their car as unique and non-factory as possible. Two different worlds, though we're all gearheads!

 

I'd be at a loss to answer your question about the fiberglass, for example.  I guess it's fine for a street rod, but in terms of an antique it would be a severe no-no!  (So, you see how far off-base the advice of someone here at the AACA board, can be, LOL!)

 

Best of luck in your decision.

[Guest UCL]

Exceptional feedback.  Exactly what I'm looking for.  Thank you for taking the time.  I see you have a 34 Ford on your website, which is better value and probably just as nice, if not nicer than this one.  You've given me food for thought, especially regarding the "investment" side of the equation.  Thoughts on a 1955 F100?  That's the other vehicle that strikes my fancy.  Curious to tap into your knowledge on that one.

15 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

So it's a hot rod with a fiberglass body? I wouldn't be surprised by the $131,000 build price, because that's what you pay a shop to build a car for you from scratch using parts from a catalog. What's it worth? The same as every other 'glass 3W coupe, and there's a pretty hard ceiling on fiberglass cars at about $50,000. To be honest, regardless of build cost, $65K still seems like a lot for a plastic car. Yes, fiberglass is much, MUCH less desirable than a steel body, although around here, I bet most people will be glad that no real '32 Fords were harmed in the building of this car. Nobody put any real "work" into the car. The parts were purchased from a catalog, painted, and assembled into a car that resembles a '32 Ford. Nothing was hand-made, custom built, or fabricated during that build, except maybe the interior. It's not quite a kit, but it's not far off, either.

 

The problem with rods is that they're all built to one guy's specific tastes, good or bad. Throw out the price guides, they don't tell you anything about a car like this. Without even looking, my guess is that it has a 350 Chevy with a carburetor, an automatic transmission (4-speed with overdrive if you're lucky, but probably a crappy TH350), a 10-bolt rear or a Ford 9-inch, and a ton of bolt-on shiny stuff under the hood. EVERY SINGLE ONE is built that way. They're all the same. Pick the color you like and buy that one. There are plenty for $30K that are 80% as nice as this $131,000 one with the same hardware and the same driving experience. You can't judge "the market" by one car, but "the market" is literally flooded with plastic 1932 Ford 3-window coupes.

 

Figure out what you want in a hot rod. Personally, I wouldn't buy one that doesn't have fuel injection, A/C, and an overdrive transmission--all have been commonplace for decades, there's no reason to be using 1960s parts in a modern build, but most guys don't bother because it costs extra. If you like the look of a '32, look at all of them for sale and buy the one that best balances features you want with price. I'm sure a car that cost $131,000 to build is beautifully done, but it's still just a 'glass box, and it's not even close to being done depreciating and will never, ever be treated as a collectable. Eventually it'll just be a dated, used rod nobody wants because they'd rather build their own. Hot rods are just about the worst possible automotive "investment" I can imagine. Only orange Lamborghinis depreciate faster.

 

If you want to spend that kind of money and have it be the kind of thing that holds its value, I'd recommend finding a real 1932 Ford V8 that hasn't been modified. It will ALWAYS be worth at least what you paid.

 

[Guest UCL]

17 minutes ago, Jon37 said:

Well, for starters, this isn't a "classic car" in the sense that that terminology is used hereabouts..  It's a street rod and while I'm sure it's a very well done job, you've probably come to the wrong place for an opinion. 

 

We're a antique car forum, and this is not an antique car.  Certainly there are some here who also are knowledgeable in the realm of street rods, and they may be able to voice an opinion.  Especially in the matter of market softness for muscle cars (which are antiques, so long as they are restored to original condition).  

 

You may be better off going over to the H.A.M.B. board ("The Jalopy Journal") and asking their opinion. And I'm sure there are many other forums and bulletin boards that are also devoted to cars like this.  The average denizen of the AACA board is trying to fix his car up to be as "factory" as possible; street rodders and customizers are aiming to make their car as unique and non-factory as possible. Two different worlds, though we're all gearheads!

 

I'd be at a loss to answer your question about the fiberglass, for example.  I guess it's fine for a street rod, but in terms of an antique it would be a severe no-no!  (So, you see how far off-base the advice of someone here at the AACA board, can be, LOL!)

 

Best of luck in your decision.

Fair enough, but your perspective is no less valuable.  In fact, it's probably more so given it's not censored by "group think" fan boys. Thoughts on the 1955 F100?  It's another vehicle that's aesthetically pleasing to me.  No worries if you don't have a view given your true antique focus.  Again, thanks for you time.  

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Early 50S Ford pickups are also very popular, the 56 being the general favorite. As in the 32, modifications from original are detractive in the opinion of most of us in the AACA.

[mercer09]

the 55 f100 is a completely different animal to the 32 ford. Matt has given you the best advice on that.

regarding the pu- nice ones are out there in the 10-15k range all day long. The fords of that year are far less desirable then the chevys of 55.

Watch out for cab rust on the pu. The fords had a lot of rust.

 

resale will always be great on the 32, not so much on the 55 pu.

 

buy what you would enjoy, but I would certainly stay away from fiberglass.

[46 woodie]

I think Matt and UCL hit the nail on the head. I agree that 65K is high for that car. If you are serious about purchasing a "Hot Rod" why not attend the hot rod show put on by NSRA in Louisville KY. There will be apx. 8000 to 10,000 hot rods and many are for sale. While I am a restorer at heart, I also own a '32 Ford Roadster hot rod. Because of the downturn in the economy and the hot rod population dwindling it isn't worth nearly what I put into it. Also the car you are looking at is being offered by a dealer so that adds a profit margin for them. Yes, this is an antique car site, but any information that we can give a fellow car enthusiast is nice.

[60FlatTop]

What do you have now, and had in the past? Do you do your own work? What ,personally, rings the bell on that car for you?

 

If I invited you out to lunch with a guy who worked in a shop with a $35 per hour rate and he made $16 per hour working there would you get excited about meeting him?

 

This is a forum that focuses  on originality. There are some original cars that perform and drive phenomenally. Have you tried any? A desirable original car can be evaluated objectively, about 400 points worth of objectivity. That means a lot more than a subjective value like "6 out of 10 street rodders like two fours on a red coupe."

 

Then you have the thought of $60,000 in discretionary money; back to my question 3.  Buy it. If you don't like it sell it. You won't lose the whole bundle. MBA post grad courses go for $10,000 per CR. How much learning can you handle?

Bernie

[Jon37]

UCL, "46 woodie" brings up an excellent point about possible depreciation, and one that we old-line antique car geezers have known for a long time: buy a vehicle that appeals to YOU, and do NOT go for (or expect) monetary gain.  When I started buying old cars in the 1960's it was because I was attracted to them (and could use them for everyday transportation, back then).  You didn't put a lot of money into them because the question was not "how much will they appreciate", but rather: how much will I lose on the deal?

 

If you like street rods, don't turn around and buy an antique because you have got the idea that it will somehow have a better resale value.  And vice versa.  If you buy for profit, you will undoubtedly be disappointed in the end, unless you are some sort of guru who knows exactly what will bring the most money in five years. And certainly don't buy something at top price, thinking it will be worth even more, later.  Get around to car shows, look at photos of vehicles of all eras, do your "due diligence" and find something whose styling and mechanical attributes appeal to you, and whose ease of repair are within your abilities and bank account.  When you winnow down your selections, research the prices that these things are bringing.  Then, you will know a bargain when you see it.  (The old car hobby is not a good place for impulse buying, and you don't want to discover after buying a car, that there was a much more stylish car out there that you hadn't known about.)

 

In the end it's a hobby and you will probably spend far more on it (in terms of initial price plus maintenance) than you'll ever get back.  Resign yourself to that.  If you buy a car or truck you're truly happy with, then it will pay you off in terms of the pleasure it brings you (and, with luck, your family) for years to come.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Jon37 (see edit history)

[JACK M]

I live in both worlds, My original cars will be bought, (maybe fixed up a bit) enjoyed for awhile and then sold. Usually at a loss.

Hot rods are personal, I build my own and if I ever got a hankering to sell one of those I would have to be prepared to take 10 cents on the dollar.

So I keep those for the most part.

I hate to be looking at some guys hot rod and ask him a question and he doesn't have a clue. He is a guy that builds his hot rod with his wallet, not his tools.

Not my style.

 

[Guest UCL]

3 hours ago, 46 woodie said:

I think Matt and UCL hit the nail on the head. I agree that 65K is high for that car. If you are serious about purchasing a "Hot Rod" why not attend the hot rod show put on by NSRA in Louisville KY. There will be apx. 8000 to 10,000 hot rods and many are for sale. While I am a restorer at heart, I also own a '32 Ford Roadster hot rod. Because of the downturn in the economy and the hot rod population dwindling it isn't worth nearly what I put into it. Also the car you are looking at is being offered by a dealer so that adds a profit margin for them. Yes, this is an antique car site, but any information that we can give a fellow car enthusiast is nice.

Good perspective and thank you kindly for taking the time to respond.  I consider this my due diligence phase as I begin to immerse myself into this world.  Getting virtual exposure is my initial foray, but attending a show such as you described might be a wise move. Also, you're spot on regarding "dealer" angle and the profit margin he must have on the table.  Thanks again.  

[Guest UCL]

2 hours ago, Jon37 said:

UCL, "46 woodie" brings up an excellent point about possible depreciation, and one that we old-line antique car geezers have known for a long time: buy a vehicle that appeals to YOU, and do NOT go for (or expect) monetary gain.  When I started buying old cars in the 1960's it was because I was attracted to them (and could use them for everyday transportation, back then).  You didn't put a lot of money into them because the question was not "how much will they appreciate", but rather: how much will I lose on the deal?

 

If you like street rods, don't turn around and buy an antique because you have got the idea that it will somehow have a better resale value.  And vice versa.  If you buy for profit, you will undoubtedly be disappointed in the end, unless you are some sort of guru who knows exactly what will bring the most money in five years. And certainly don't buy something at top price, thinking it will be worth even more, later.  Get around to car shows, look at photos of vehicles of all eras, do your "due diligence" and find something whose styling and mechanical attributes appeal to you, and whose ease of repair are within your abilities and bank account.  When you winnow down your selections, research the prices that these things are bringing.  Then, you will know a bargain when you see it.  (The old car hobby is not a good place for impulse buying, and you don't want to discover after buying a car, that there was a much more stylish car out there that you hadn't known about.)

 

In the end it's a hobby and you will probably spend far more on it (in terms of initial price plus maintenance) than you'll ever get back.  Resign yourself to that.  If you buy a car or truck you're truly happy with, then it will pay you off in terms of the pleasure it brings you (and, with luck, your family) for years to come.

Brilliant and thoughtful feedback.  Thank you.  I'm not one to rush into any type of purchase, and firmly believe into tapping into true experts to better appreciate what I'm looking at and getting myself into.  As it stands, what draws me to these vehicles are the gorgeous lines and personality that you just don't see in cars today.  I'm at a point in my life where id love to obtain a special (meaningful)ride to enjoy with wife and new son.  Thanks again.

[Guest UCL]

1 hour ago, JACK M said:

I live in both worlds, My original cars will be bought, (maybe fixed up a bit) enjoyed for awhile and then sold. Usually at a loss.

Hot rods are personal, I build my own and if I ever got a hankering to sell one of those I would have to be prepared to take 10 cents on the dollar.

So I keep those for the most part.

I hate to be looking at some guys hot rod and ask him a question and he doesn't have a clue. He is a guy that builds his hot rod with his wallet, not his tools.

Not my style.

 

Appreciate the candid perspective, especially when it comes to your point on hotrod resale mentality.  I genuinely wish I had the skill set and the time to build my own.  Unfortunately, I'm not blessed in that way.  Thanks again for taking the time.  

[Pomeroy41144]

17 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

So it's a hot rod with a fiberglass body?Yes, fiberglass is much, MUCH less desirable than a steel body, although around here, I bet most people will be glad that no real '32 Fords were harmed in the building of this car.

 

I just don't get the guys who brag that their 1932-39 Ford "hot rod" (really a street rod) is "real Henry steel" when every thing else on the car are non Ford parts---Chevy 350/350, after market Pinto front suspension (they call it "Mustang II" but we all know what it really is).  So what is the point of having "real Henry steel" when every thing else on the car is brand new after market stuff? 

 

Or adverts in Hemmings and on the internet:   1934 Ford, FULLY RESTORED with Chevy 350 crate motor, chopped three inches, power windows, power locks, ac, power bucket seats, digital dash, cruise, blah, blah, blah, same, same, same, [this car is as Matt says--just like all the others]; $140,000 build.  Must sell $70,000.  So the car is "fully restored"?  Yeah right.  Check Hemmings and you will find these cars languishing for months.  You can find glass hot rods with 350/350 for under $60,000 all day long.   

 

 

 

Quote

I wouldn't buy one that doesn't have fuel injection, A/C, and an overdrive transmission--

 

Matt, I read your posts religiously and hold you in high regard on this forum, but friend I would never buy a 1932 Ford  with AC.  AC?  That is what a cowl vent is for.  Auto trans?  No way.  Don't get me wrong, I like some traditional styled Ford hot rods if tastefully done and are somewhat period correct for that golden post war period. 

 

 

Quote

 

 

If you want to spend that kind of money and have it be the kind of thing that holds its value, I'd recommend finding a real 1932 Ford V8 that hasn't been modified. It will ALWAYS be worth at least what you paid.

 

This is the very best advice you could have given him.  A real 1932 Ford that has not been raped or butchered is expensive, but like Matt says it will hold its value because of what it is. 

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by Pomeroy41144 (see edit history)

[alsancle]

A fiberglass car is not a hot rod but a replica of a hot rod and like most replicas it trades in a very narrow market that is much less than the cost of construction.  Replicas at first seem like a good deal but ultimately you are better off spending the same money one a lesser but real car.

 

Matt,  there is no such thing as a Hot rod with air conditioning and an automatic transmission.  That would be a street rod.

 

A hot rod is steel, preferably 32 Ford and preferably running a flat head or perhaps a 392 Hemi.

[Matt Harwood]

4 hours ago, alsancle said:

A fiberglass car is not a hot rod but a replica of a hot rod and like most replicas it trades in a very narrow market that is much less than the cost of construction.  Replicas at first seem like a good deal but ultimately you are better off spending the same money one a lesser but real car.

 

Matt,  there is no such thing as a Hot rod with air conditioning and an automatic transmission.  That would be a street rod.

 

A hot rod is steel, preferably 32 Ford and preferably running a flat head or perhaps a 392 Hemi.

 

My point was merely that if you're going to spend the long dollar on a fiberglass car with no pretension of being authentic, you should get all the perks and spiffs to go with it. When you sacrifice character for convenience, you may as well get all the convenience you can, right? I never said I'd own such a beast, but if I was looking at $50,000 plastic Ford coupes, hell yeah, I'd insist on all the goodies, not yester-tech hardware because the builder was on a budget. Hot rod, street rod, whatever, that's just semantics. A plastic car is a facsimile of a memory and the whole "hot rodding" movement has mutated from young guys trying to go fast creatively on a budget to fat middle-aged guys building high-zoot replicas of cars that the "cool guy" in high school used to own. These finished cars go to shows where they putt-putt around in 2nd gear at 11 MPH to a parking place where they sit all day, collect a plastic bowling trophy, then putt-putt back to the trailer. The owners often have checkbook thickness competitions and race their dyno sheets. Unfortunately, the reason all these fresh, expensive builds are always for sale is because once they're finished, the guys who bankrolled the build realize that they're pretty dull to drive, ride like skateboards, and have all the personality of a riding lawn mower. Most still need $5,000 worth of sorting to be ready to rock, which they've opted not to spend because, hey, it looks like a car and runs well enough to get on and off the trailer, so who cares? The '32 Ford roadster of their youth was way too crude and basic for them to actually want to own it, but goddamn it, that sucker had personality. Pretty hard to render personality in fiberglass.

 

Obviously I'm not a fan of most modern hot rods/street rods. Genuine cars built in a genuine way with genuine creativity and fabrication skills always impress me. I'm a guy who loves the rat rod movement (although like the enthusiasts, I hate that term), mostly because it goes back to basics of low-cost, creative use of parts, and ingenuity on the part of the builder. Cookie-cutter rods like the one under discussion are the "Bolex" watches of the collector car world, although many seem to cost as much as the real thing. Isn't that odd?

 

To the original poster, don't let this part of the discussion distract you. Go to shows, look at A LOT of cars and find the features in each one that you like. Make a list of what features you'd want to have in such a car. And most of all, think carefully about how you will use such a car. If a hot rod/street rod such as the one you posted is what floats your boat, then set a budget for yourself, and buy a moderately priced finished car that meets your criteria. Since they're all roughly the same, adding a few tweaks to make it your own or doing some sorting to make it drive better will probably save cash compared to buying a high-dollar one.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Matt Harwood
Typo (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

There is a glass '32 3window in the same condition, real nice pro built car that the current owner can't find a home for at $40,000. Glass cars aren't worth the money most people are asking. Bob

[Beltfed]

As another person who lives in both worlds I suggest you Google NSRA and Goodguys.  They are the two largest hot rod, street Rod, muscle car, organizations.  They have large shows all over the country through the summer.   You may very well find one close.

[jeff_a]

UCL, 

Thanks for asking around here about this car you want to buy. I don't know why, but it seems to be a national pastime to modify [or in this case re-create] a 1932 Ford. So much so that I've seen very few with the correct engine in them. Have you looked at Autabuy online recently? I did and there were over 150 1932 Fords listed, five of which were antique cars; the rest were hot rods of some type. That doesn't mean that percentage of them are modified, just that this sales outlet has that many for sale. I guess the good thing is --- it gives you some choices.

[mercer09]

MBA post grad courses go for $10,000 per CR. How much learning can you handle?

 

Need to see what school you are talking about there Bernie. not even plausible, but I get your point...............

[60FlatTop]

Another brain fart, it's $3,000 CR all costs. I was thinking about the personal $40,000 blooper I considered as a post grad course.

 

Getting the point across is good. Contemplating a 50K car for a toy isn't outrageous. I guess the biggest red flag in the ad was the $35 per hour shop rate; almost 100 weeks to assemble a cookie cutter collage coupe?

Bernie

[JACK M]

So the guy spends 65K on this car.

If its sorted out as well as described, compare it to a new Beemer or Volvo etc. at the same price.

Then consider driving for ten years and see which car will bring more money when its time for another car.

Glass holds up better in the long haul than a steel car that's already 60 or 70 years old when you start the build.

Now you can buy some of the more popular cars repopped in steel. Yes, You can buy a brand new 32 Ford body in steel. Probably a much better body than the original 32 was. A 56 Bel Air vert? yes! in steel among others. I see em at the roadster shows for sale in just about any stage of the build and its easy to find anything with Google.

The options in this sport are limitless. Especially if one has big bucks.

I prefer to build my own rods (street, hot, that's up for interpretation) and buy and sell originals. I don't get very attached to an original car as it was built by someone else a long time ago and there are a bunch more like it out there someplace.

I am not condemning the wallet build, but I have a hard time relating to a guy that does that.

Its like the guys that ride Harleys these days, they are all doctors, dentists or lawyers with their women all decorated up and they only ride on weekends and stay in hotels.

A HUGE difference from what I consider a biker. I wish I had that kind of dough when I was riding. A leaking old Panhead that I could get running by myself when it quit on the road. Now the guy gets out his AAA card and flies home.

I guess my point is that there is room for everybody.