Sign in to follow this  
buick man

For Sale: 1949 Roadmaster Coupe

Recommended Posts

It's your choice to do what you in YOUR mind/heart feels right, but if a buyer is HAPPY with the selling price, there is no way the seller should be called GREEDY, PERIOD.

No need to judge what two parties AGREE to in order to complete a sale, that's the free interprise. People walk away from a seller often, that's the way it works.

My sister just listed her home, and four buyers offered more than the asking price, she certainly wasn't greedy by accepting the highest price.

Dale in Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

     This profit/greed/free-enterprise topic is certainly a hot one.  What it boils down to, I feel, is the question of whether it is OK to apply ordinary business practices to dealings with fellow hobbyists . . . or whether these folks should be considered part of a fraternity of sorts -- a little like friends or family, from whom surely all of us agree that it's not right to seek substantial gain.  

      Now, my own feeling is that the factors which place friends and family off limits for profiteering are common interests, common concerns, common objectives, and common experiences which tie us together in ways foreign to the cold world of business.  So, too, hobbyists share a kind of commonality -- one that is surely degraded by calculated profiteering off each other.

      Some things are just more important than money. The problem is that we don't all agree on exactly what those things are. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if a neighbor OFFERS you double what you paid, not knowing what you paid, you would say NO, you can have it for my costs?

 

Your neighbor wants the car, you didn't haggle with him, he offered that deal, but you being such a nice guy would sell at cost, that your choice, but don't call me GREEDY if I take the deal.  Don't forget, he wants the car, it's what he has been looking for, he is HAPPY.

 

When the buyer and seller are pleased/happy with the sale, it AIN'T GREED.

 

There is no other way to  explain it, period,

 

Dale in Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also how would you feel if you sold your good deal to the neighbor at YOUR costs, and two weeks later he sells it for a profit?

 

Remember he offered you twice what you paid, you said NO, so WHY should he feel guilty for selling at a profit? 

 

You are the one that turned down his offer, he didn't beat you up for the deal.  

 

Dale in Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Let's suppose you find a car at a very low price, and the next day a neighbor offers you TWICE what you paid, is that GREED?  ..

America is a FREE country, let freedom work.  Dale in Indy

 

Dale, I like your idea of freedom.  To me, though,

freedom includes the ethics of treating people right.

 

If I just bought a car, and my neighbor immediately offered

twice what I paid, I would not accept it:  My purchase price

would have been reasonable, and someone's offer of double

would show that he didn't know the market for that car.

I would honestly tell him, "The car isn't worth as much as you think."

 

And while everyone likes to buy at a reasonable price, as a buyer

I wouldn't "steal" the car from an unknowledgeable owner.

If such a hypothetical family, or widow of the owner, was 

asking too little, wouldn't she be grateful if you told her of 

her error, so that she was able to get thousands more?

 

Taking advantage of a seller's lack of knowledge with

a paltry purchase price has happened in the world of collectibles--

and it can legally be construed as fraud, which of course is a crime.

 

Honest buyers and sellers--and justified trust--strengthen our hobby.

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

       Wow, John, you're my kind of guy -- wish you were everone else's, too.

        Your line of thought about the connection between freedom and responsibility has a very long tradition, going back to the Founders like Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, et.al. -- all strong believers in personal freedom, who also argued passionately that with freedom comes the responsibility to act not only out of self-interest but also for the sake of the common "weal" as required by republican (lower case r) and Classical standards of good citizenship.

         Obviously, many today sneer at such ideals -- viewing our free society as little more than a common wrestling match of individuals each trying to out-grapple others for his or her own gain.  But it's clear, John, that you are not one of those cynics -- and neither am I.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to agree with Dale--I think the measure of a "bargain" is on the buyer, not the seller. If you buy something and are satisfied with what you paid and what you received in return, well, I'd say that's a proper deal, regardless of what the seller has invested in it or what his profit margins are. The guy providing the money is the sole judge of what is a bargain and what isn't. If he's willing to pay that price for that car, then it's his decision. Value is subjective--how many of you have said this very thing on this very forum when asked about a car's value: "It's worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay for it."

 

And by the way, if you did find yourself in that situation where someone is offering you a lot more than you paid, do you think you should share it with the guy you bought it from? I didn't think so...

 

I sold my 1941 Cadillac 60S to a gentleman who really liked original cars. He paid me what I thought was a fair price for a high-quality HPOF car that was a proven runner and in all-around great shape. I did ask him to give me the first right of refusal when the time came to sell it, because I figured I'd like it back someday. Well, about three months later he calls and says that he's honoring our agreement and would like to offer me my car because he's got an offer to buy. Turns out, his neighbor saw it, decided he JUST HAD TO HAVE IT, and offered him nearly $20,000 more than he paid me. I didn't hesitate, I said, "Take it! Take the money and run!" Did I want the car back? Sure. Did I wonder where that buyer was when I was selling the car? Of course. Did I begrudge the guy I sold it to for his windfall score to a sucker? Absolutely not. I don't think the guy who bought it from me should feel any guilt, either. And if the guy who ultimately bought it is happy with what he paid and what he got in return, well, I think all parties should be satisfied.

 

You don't need to protect other adults from their own choices and it isn't morally right or wrong to let right-minded adults make their own decisions, even if you make a profit doing it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As stated, "when the seller and buyer are happy/pleased with the deal, it AIN'T GREED".

If a neighbor or that matter anyone ask me what I paid, well, it's none of his/her business, I would look at him/her and smile. The acception would be if it were my brother asking.

Dale in Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and by the way, I paid $200.00 for my 41 Limited, but that was in 1973, and it needed a full restore.

 

Since then I have invested over $25k, and I did ALL THE WORK, loved every minute of it toooooooo!.

 

I would guess I would be lucky to get my money back, but that's the LAST thing I'm worried about.

 

Nothing personal with my comments, each to his/her own opinions.

 

Have a great weekend,

 

Dale in Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

        Interesting topics and hypotheticals, guys.  We're lucky we haven't been kicked off of here for straying so far from the thread topic.

        Here's a related ethical issue: over on another forum, a gent is complaining about a fella who joined the forum asking for help with an unusual car he'd bought.  After some members of the group supplied him with parts and research efforts so that he could better his car, he then flipped it -- apparently at quite a profit.

 

        So . . . does the doctrine of free enterprise justify this kind of profiteering from the efforts of helpful fellow hobbyists?  Does "there's a sucker born every minute" allow this sort of exploitation of others' generosity?  Or should we expect that generosity to be so unconditional as to magnanimously accept whatever use the beneficiary puts it to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buickborn, it could be the person decided it was a task above his ability, or to costly to continue, lots of possible reasons he might have decided to sell.

I still maintain that if both the seller and the buyer are happy/pleased, then it's NOT GREED, how hard is it for that fact to be accepted?

What you do/think is fine with me, I have NEVER ripped anyone off, ever, but if someone offered me a lot more than what I have invested in my Limited, well it would be sold, but remember HE REALLY WANTED MY CAR.

Dale in Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did I begrudge the guy I sold it to for his windfall score to a sucker? Absolutely not....  And if the guy who ultimately bought it is happy with what he paid and what he got in return, well, I think all parties should be satisfied.

 

You don't need to protect other adults from their own choices and it isn't morally right or wrong to let right-minded adults make their own decisions, even if you make a profit doing it.

 

Matt, you make a lot of good postings on car topics, but with

this one I would respectfully disagree.  If the buyer and seller are

both fully knowledgeable about the car, its condition, and its value,

then an agreement between buyers and sellers is fair.

In your hypothetical example, taking someone's money

when he is a "sucker" doesn't hold up to most people's 

definition of ethics, and no rationalization can change that.

But I do appreciate hearing your thoughts on the matter.

 

The standard of doing right isn't subject to your opinion

or my opinion, or what society thinks at a particular time;

it is absolute.  The Golden Rule is the perfect statement

of the idea, and that Rule provides not weakness, but strength.

 

Let's build up the hobby on the firm foundation of honesty

and treating people right.

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dale, you're right that we can move on.

 

There's no need for further hypotheticals.  If anyone

ever has to decide a situation, the Golden Rule, when

he is honest with himself and ponders its meaning,

will settle all questions.

 

Now, any more '49 Buick insights---? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this