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For Sale: 1949 Roadmaster Coupe


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Check this 1949 R.M. Coupe out on Craigs: Asking Price is $10,500.00. Rare coupe indeed even back in the day. Do ya think it's worth it and why or why not or just where is the market ? Seller says he and his Dad are the 2nd owners. His Dad painted the car inside and out with new upholstery. Nice touch the spot light on the driver's side. Reportedly original owner over 20 years ago was on a road trip with it and it stopped running so he had it towed to his place of residence where it sat for over 20 years. The current owner was working in the neighborhood and spotted the car. A deal was made and he proceeded to do a cosmetic renovation. Car has sat in enclosed garage and has not run for over 4 years so owner's son is going to get it started and running before actual sale. There is vey limited rust but confesses to certain amounts of bondo here and there since as he puts " My dad was a sheet rock contractor" - So there you have it. Don't know if that is a good sign or not hugh? Anyways, it does look nice and for $ 10,500 could you see it in your driveway? A good 20 footer perhaps.

http://stockton.craigslist.org/cto/4896025635.html

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Edited by buick man (see edit history)
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$10.5K is a good price if it can run, maybe a great price. The "sheet rock contractor" comment is curious, but when you buy a 66-year-old car for a comparatively low price, you have to assume there's some bondo/rust involved. Absolutely worth a look. It won't last long.

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I have seen restored cars with white dashboards in magazines

occasionally, but all that I've seen are incorrect. The first time

you tried to drive such a car on a bright, sunny day, the reflection

off the white could almost make the car undrivable--and unsafe!

Cars of other eras that had white seats always had dark dashboards,

probably for that very reason.

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The white dash is pretty off-putting, but it is a rare and desirable body style, right up there with the Sedanette. Asking price is a reasonable point of departure for negotiation. If it's a sedan runner, sure, $4K all day, but it's a Riviera. If I was still in California, I'd be taking a look.

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It sure looks nice in that blue, but since the painter didn't even go to the trouble of painting the door jams, there must of been other "shortcuts" taken. But as a first year hardtop, certainly worth taking a good look.

Keith

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IS IT REALLY a rare car? Desirable, yes; but production figures

don't tell the story, because hobbyists tend to restore the desirable cars

so they're not as uncommon as they once were. I think that desirable

models such as 1953 Skylarks, 1958 Limited convertibles, etc.

can hardly be called rare any more, since they appear at auctions routinely.

I'll bet that in the Buick realm, a 1967 Wildcat 4-door hardtop,

a 1968 Special 2-door sedan, a 1970 Buick Estate Wagon, or a

1973 Centurion 2-door hardtop appear far less frequently

at shows or at auctions, or even in the BCA roster than the

formerly rare ones. And those "lesser" models are affordable,

deserve to be preserved, and are just as important

to Buick history! I like seeing (and owning) the less common cars.

Enjoy the 1949 Riviera, but don't forget the many other possibilities!

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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IS IT REALLY a rare car? Desirable, yes; but production figures

don't tell the story, because hobbyists tend to restore the desirable cars

so they're not as uncommon as they once were. I think that desirable

models such as 1953 Skylarks, 1958 Limited convertibles, etc.

can hardly be called rare any more, since they appear at auctions routinely.

'll bet that in the Buick realm, a 1967 Wildcat 4-door hardtop,

a 1968 Special 2-door sedan, a 1970 Buick Estate Wagon, or a

1973 Centurion 2-door hardtop appear far less frequently

at shows or at auctions, or even in the BCA roster than the

formerly rare ones. And those "lesser" models are affordable,

deserve to be preserved, and are just as important

to Buick history! I like seeing (and owning) the less common cars.

Enjoy the 1949 Riviera, but don't forget the many other possibilities!

John, you raise what I feel is a complicated issue. That is, I suspect that, for most of us, "rarity" is a subjective concept really interconnected with "interesting" -- which means an item's ability to turn heads and create a street response along the lines of "Gee, I haven't seen one of THOSE in a long time." Because most people wouldn't take much notice of a 1967 4-door hardtop Buick compared to a '49 Riv, they would fail to experience the former's greater rarity . . . thereby rendering its rarity substantially irrelevant. Perhaps the question really boils down to the nature of the audience to whom we want to play. While Buick aficionados might properly appreciate the numerical rarity of the '67, the typical person on the street would surely be impacted to a greater degree by the more "vintage" nature of the '49. It's that street appeal that I, for one, am interested in -- as, I believe, are most old-car addicts.

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I'm in the heart of antique car country, and I've seen enough '53 Skylarks.

They're beginning to be like 1959 Cadillacs or late 1950's Chevrolets in

their own way: nice cars but nothing unusual. And pretentiousness and

artificial auction fervor never attract me. With 1300 antique cars to see in 5 hours

at Hershey or Macungie, I'd probably walk by the '53 Skylark to look at

a nice 1970 Buick Estate Wagon or something else I don't normally get to see!

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I'm in the heart of antique car country, and I've seen enough '53 Skylarks.

They're beginning to be like 1959 Cadillacs or late 1950's Chevrolets in

their own way: nice cars but nothing unusual. And pretentiousness and

artificial auction fervor never attract me. With 1300 antique cars to see in 5 hours

at Hershey or Macungie, I'd probably walk by the '53 Skylark to look at

a nice 1970 Buick Estate Wagon or something else I don't normally get to see!

Interesting, John -- and enviable. And I'm with you on your feelings about pretentiousness. For example, one of my cars is a nice but thoroughly seasoned original '30 Buick roadster, brimming with untold stories and carying the whiff of an old library. I wouldn't consider trading it for an eye-popping restored version, not even straight across.

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Well apparently some guy from Missouri took the plunge and will have the car transported back to the show-me-state. Yes the white dash is down right pippin but could be repainted as it is doubtful the owner never removed the dash as he also never bothered to paint the door sides nor at least the top of the firewall. Books say low retail is around $ 8.500.00. We think that the body is a possible bondo floater. But what the hay, most older Ferrari's came floated in body putty from the hand made factory as well back in the day. The car no doubt is a head turner and it is after all the 1st year riviera coupe. This car will only increase in value even if it just continues to sit in a well protected environment regardless of a white dash or bondo.

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This car will only increase in value even if it just continues to sit in a well protected environment regardless of a white dash or bondo.

Agree!

Rare? Maybe not. Desirable? Hell yea!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...
post-56742-143143039993_thumb.jpg… just some more show for the go. This car has been apparently re-listed on Craigs. So what's Up? Just might be more bondo than mondo after all - So here's more Eye Candy along with some views of that white bread dash - ya all ... Oh look, and with hydraulic windows too !!

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Edited by buick man (see edit history)
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I had been wondering what was up with that Riv, considering that the C/L listing had never been pulled. Odd -- I've been on the hunt for many years for an affordable '49 Riv or sedanet, but this one just doesn't do it for me. Not that the white dash, wrong upholstery, etc. are all that difficult to rectify . . . but I guess I'd rather bust my pick trying to undo the normal ravages of time than deal with the aggravation of some knucklehead's poor taste and lousy workmanship.

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Clearly, what has happened here is that the car is being offered by a different seller. The original C/L listing was out of Stockton CA -- centrally located within the state -- while the current version shows the car the located much further south, in the L.A. metroplex. Further, the background in the latest photos differs considerably from that of the former. Apparently, in this case we have an "entrepreneur" plying his . . . er . . . craft. Imagine that.

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Smells like a "flipper" (not the dolphin) to me............

Y'know, it has been argued by some laissez-faire types that price speculators are not obvious self-serving parasites but useful contributors to the workings of the marketplace. Maybe. But there is ample evidence that conventional supply/demand dynamics do not operate in the sphere of antiques and collectibles. That is, normally, when a seller's asking price is too high to obtain a sale, he/she can be expected to lower that price until the item sells. But in the case of overpriced collectibles, sellers often hold to the price for years on end or withdraw the item from the market entirely. Perhaps this pattern is less a matter of economics and more a matter of egos.

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Well when I talked to the original seller a couple of weeks ago, he told me that a guy in Oklahoma was excited about it and had given him a $ 1,000 deposit and was putting together transportation back to his state and if things fell through it would be up for grabs. I never called back to see what happened as I assumed the guy showed up and got it. I originally posted this thread either later that day or the next day. Now perhaps this Oklahoma buyer either flipped it or backed out perhaps upon a buyers inspection or just plain backed out. Yes the background in the new photos is different and as mentioned now in the L.A. area. Perhaps one of you guys could call the original seller as I believe the original ad is still up and see what happened.

I would simply repaint the dash, door jambs and inner firewall and of course paint the top either a dark rich blue or black and be done with it.

Edited by buick man (see edit history)
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  • 3 months later...

Y'know, it has been argued by some laissez-faire types that price speculators are not obvious self-serving parasites but useful contributors to the workings of the marketplace. Maybe. But there is ample evidence that conventional supply/demand dynamics do not operate in the sphere of antiques and collectibles. That is, normally, when a seller's asking price is too high to obtain a sale, he/she can be expected to lower that price until the item sells. But in the case of overpriced collectibles, sellers often hold to the price for years on end or withdraw the item from the market entirely. Perhaps this pattern is less a matter of economics and more a matter of egos.

 

Buickborn, I think you are absolutely right!  Flippers 

and profiteers don't help the hobby.  I've seen some cars

with reasonable asking prices, only to end up for sale

by a dealer with the asking price doubled!  Such a

100% markup may make it unaffordable to the

hobbyist who would enjoy it, all for someone else's

love of money.

 

Entrepreneurship is to be admired, but greed is not!

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Did someone say, THERE'S A SUCKER BORN EVERYDAY.

 

Let's suppose you find a car at a very low price, and the next day a neighbor offers you TWICE what you paid, is that GREED?  ..

 

America is a FREE country, let freedom work.

 

Dale in Indy

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It's your choice to do what you in YOUR mind/heart feels right, but if a buyer is HAPPY with the selling price, there is no way the seller should be called GREEDY, PERIOD.

No need to judge what two parties AGREE to in order to complete a sale, that's the free interprise. People walk away from a seller often, that's the way it works.

My sister just listed her home, and four buyers offered more than the asking price, she certainly wasn't greedy by accepting the highest price.

Dale in Indy

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     This profit/greed/free-enterprise topic is certainly a hot one.  What it boils down to, I feel, is the question of whether it is OK to apply ordinary business practices to dealings with fellow hobbyists . . . or whether these folks should be considered part of a fraternity of sorts -- a little like friends or family, from whom surely all of us agree that it's not right to seek substantial gain.  

      Now, my own feeling is that the factors which place friends and family off limits for profiteering are common interests, common concerns, common objectives, and common experiences which tie us together in ways foreign to the cold world of business.  So, too, hobbyists share a kind of commonality -- one that is surely degraded by calculated profiteering off each other.

      Some things are just more important than money. The problem is that we don't all agree on exactly what those things are. 

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So if a neighbor OFFERS you double what you paid, not knowing what you paid, you would say NO, you can have it for my costs?

 

Your neighbor wants the car, you didn't haggle with him, he offered that deal, but you being such a nice guy would sell at cost, that your choice, but don't call me GREEDY if I take the deal.  Don't forget, he wants the car, it's what he has been looking for, he is HAPPY.

 

When the buyer and seller are pleased/happy with the sale, it AIN'T GREED.

 

There is no other way to  explain it, period,

 

Dale in Indy

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Also how would you feel if you sold your good deal to the neighbor at YOUR costs, and two weeks later he sells it for a profit?

 

Remember he offered you twice what you paid, you said NO, so WHY should he feel guilty for selling at a profit? 

 

You are the one that turned down his offer, he didn't beat you up for the deal.  

 

Dale in Indy

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Let's suppose you find a car at a very low price, and the next day a neighbor offers you TWICE what you paid, is that GREED?  ..

America is a FREE country, let freedom work.  Dale in Indy

 

Dale, I like your idea of freedom.  To me, though,

freedom includes the ethics of treating people right.

 

If I just bought a car, and my neighbor immediately offered

twice what I paid, I would not accept it:  My purchase price

would have been reasonable, and someone's offer of double

would show that he didn't know the market for that car.

I would honestly tell him, "The car isn't worth as much as you think."

 

And while everyone likes to buy at a reasonable price, as a buyer

I wouldn't "steal" the car from an unknowledgeable owner.

If such a hypothetical family, or widow of the owner, was 

asking too little, wouldn't she be grateful if you told her of 

her error, so that she was able to get thousands more?

 

Taking advantage of a seller's lack of knowledge with

a paltry purchase price has happened in the world of collectibles--

and it can legally be construed as fraud, which of course is a crime.

 

Honest buyers and sellers--and justified trust--strengthen our hobby.

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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       Wow, John, you're my kind of guy -- wish you were everone else's, too.

        Your line of thought about the connection between freedom and responsibility has a very long tradition, going back to the Founders like Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, et.al. -- all strong believers in personal freedom, who also argued passionately that with freedom comes the responsibility to act not only out of self-interest but also for the sake of the common "weal" as required by republican (lower case r) and Classical standards of good citizenship.

         Obviously, many today sneer at such ideals -- viewing our free society as little more than a common wrestling match of individuals each trying to out-grapple others for his or her own gain.  But it's clear, John, that you are not one of those cynics -- and neither am I.

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I have to agree with Dale--I think the measure of a "bargain" is on the buyer, not the seller. If you buy something and are satisfied with what you paid and what you received in return, well, I'd say that's a proper deal, regardless of what the seller has invested in it or what his profit margins are. The guy providing the money is the sole judge of what is a bargain and what isn't. If he's willing to pay that price for that car, then it's his decision. Value is subjective--how many of you have said this very thing on this very forum when asked about a car's value: "It's worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay for it."

 

And by the way, if you did find yourself in that situation where someone is offering you a lot more than you paid, do you think you should share it with the guy you bought it from? I didn't think so...

 

I sold my 1941 Cadillac 60S to a gentleman who really liked original cars. He paid me what I thought was a fair price for a high-quality HPOF car that was a proven runner and in all-around great shape. I did ask him to give me the first right of refusal when the time came to sell it, because I figured I'd like it back someday. Well, about three months later he calls and says that he's honoring our agreement and would like to offer me my car because he's got an offer to buy. Turns out, his neighbor saw it, decided he JUST HAD TO HAVE IT, and offered him nearly $20,000 more than he paid me. I didn't hesitate, I said, "Take it! Take the money and run!" Did I want the car back? Sure. Did I wonder where that buyer was when I was selling the car? Of course. Did I begrudge the guy I sold it to for his windfall score to a sucker? Absolutely not. I don't think the guy who bought it from me should feel any guilt, either. And if the guy who ultimately bought it is happy with what he paid and what he got in return, well, I think all parties should be satisfied.

 

You don't need to protect other adults from their own choices and it isn't morally right or wrong to let right-minded adults make their own decisions, even if you make a profit doing it.

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As stated, "when the seller and buyer are happy/pleased with the deal, it AIN'T GREED".

If a neighbor or that matter anyone ask me what I paid, well, it's none of his/her business, I would look at him/her and smile. The acception would be if it were my brother asking.

Dale in Indy

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Oh, and by the way, I paid $200.00 for my 41 Limited, but that was in 1973, and it needed a full restore.

 

Since then I have invested over $25k, and I did ALL THE WORK, loved every minute of it toooooooo!.

 

I would guess I would be lucky to get my money back, but that's the LAST thing I'm worried about.

 

Nothing personal with my comments, each to his/her own opinions.

 

Have a great weekend,

 

Dale in Indy

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        Interesting topics and hypotheticals, guys.  We're lucky we haven't been kicked off of here for straying so far from the thread topic.

        Here's a related ethical issue: over on another forum, a gent is complaining about a fella who joined the forum asking for help with an unusual car he'd bought.  After some members of the group supplied him with parts and research efforts so that he could better his car, he then flipped it -- apparently at quite a profit.

 

        So . . . does the doctrine of free enterprise justify this kind of profiteering from the efforts of helpful fellow hobbyists?  Does "there's a sucker born every minute" allow this sort of exploitation of others' generosity?  Or should we expect that generosity to be so unconditional as to magnanimously accept whatever use the beneficiary puts it to?

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Buickborn, it could be the person decided it was a task above his ability, or to costly to continue, lots of possible reasons he might have decided to sell.

I still maintain that if both the seller and the buyer are happy/pleased, then it's NOT GREED, how hard is it for that fact to be accepted?

What you do/think is fine with me, I have NEVER ripped anyone off, ever, but if someone offered me a lot more than what I have invested in my Limited, well it would be sold, but remember HE REALLY WANTED MY CAR.

Dale in Indy

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Did I begrudge the guy I sold it to for his windfall score to a sucker? Absolutely not....  And if the guy who ultimately bought it is happy with what he paid and what he got in return, well, I think all parties should be satisfied.

 

You don't need to protect other adults from their own choices and it isn't morally right or wrong to let right-minded adults make their own decisions, even if you make a profit doing it.

 

Matt, you make a lot of good postings on car topics, but with

this one I would respectfully disagree.  If the buyer and seller are

both fully knowledgeable about the car, its condition, and its value,

then an agreement between buyers and sellers is fair.

In your hypothetical example, taking someone's money

when he is a "sucker" doesn't hold up to most people's 

definition of ethics, and no rationalization can change that.

But I do appreciate hearing your thoughts on the matter.

 

The standard of doing right isn't subject to your opinion

or my opinion, or what society thinks at a particular time;

it is absolute.  The Golden Rule is the perfect statement

of the idea, and that Rule provides not weakness, but strength.

 

Let's build up the hobby on the firm foundation of honesty

and treating people right.

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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Dale, you're right that we can move on.

 

There's no need for further hypotheticals.  If anyone

ever has to decide a situation, the Golden Rule, when

he is honest with himself and ponders its meaning,

will settle all questions.

 

Now, any more '49 Buick insights---? 

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