Touring Sedan Terminology

[Bob Zetnick]

For the last couple of years I've seen 4 door sedans advertised as "touring sedans". I've never heard of that before...I've heard of "touring cars", "phaetons", "4-door sedans" and "convertible sedans". Is "touring sedan" an old term or is it just used to give a little extra panache to a regular sedan when someone sells?

[Guest BillP]

It's an old term, GM used it in the thirties and probably other firms did as well.

[ply33]

In the mid to late 1930s Chrysler marketed the sedans with a built in trunk as "touring sedans". Those without trunks, which a lot of people today call "sloped back" were simply marketed as "sedans".

Chrysler did not fully follow the SAE body style nomenclature as they called an SAE "sedan" a "four door sedan" and an SAE "coach" a "two door sedan". Again, if the car had a trunk add "touring" between the "door" and "sedan" (e.g. "two door touring sedan" would be a coach fitted with a built in trunk).

[Bob Zetnick]

So this sounds as if the term were used in the 30's by a few makes...what if the term were used for a 20's 4 door sedan?

[Rusty_OToole]

There was no law or rule, car makers could call their products whatever they liked. There was no uniformity between makes. But, generally speaking, a touring sedan was a shorter body than the big 5 passenger or 7 passenger sedans, which resembled a bus. The touring sedan was lighter and better balanced for fast road trips.

[wayne sheldon]

One of my 'favorite" (I am sick of it) subjects. The reality is that most automotive terms developed over many years and have meant different things to different people at different times. Basically, in the earlier decades of automobiles, there was no such thing as a "touring sedan" or a "coupe roadster". These are some sort of run-on term applied by people that do not know what they are talking about and generally are too lazy to care enough to learn anything. Many people (40 to 60 years ago) wound up with cars, many of whom wanted to either sell it or brag about it. One seat (front only) was either a coupe or roadster, and if you couldn't understand the difference between a fixed solid roof, a fold-down open car, or convertible with windows, it became a "coupe roadster". Two seats (a front and a back) similarly became "touring sedan". I recall too many times about forty years ago phoning on advertised antique automobiles thinking I was inquiring about a touring only to find out it was a sedan. Then being told that I didn't know what I was talking about because it had a back seat so therefore it was a touring when in fact it had a solid roof and was what had been originally called a sedan. Confused yet? So am I. But I do not think that the best thing to do was run two terms together so that nobody learns what to call it.

And, of course, ALL of the previous responders are also correct. Many cars were called "touring sedans" originally by their manufacturers. Generally speaking, it was sedans with a large trunk to carry luggage while on long trips, which is where one definition of the word touring came from. The Jaguar XJ6 I used to have was called a touring sedan (a fact which annoyed me because of the miss-use of the term with early automobiles, but it did have a huge trunk).

Touring cars, as some of us (including me) think of them, were called that before the automobile was used on long trips very often, and therefore, called that for different reasons. By 1905, the name had stuck. Some people argue that the alternate term "phaeton" would be better. I might agree with them, but I tend to prefer to use the terms used originally by most manufacturers.

It is a problem, with all the twists and turns through the decades. But language is supposed to mean something. If I read about a 1937 Packard touring sedan, I should be able to trust that it has a nice, large, trunk built into the body on the back. Earlier cars? A solid, fixed, roof or a fold-down soft top is not that difficult to figure out.

Coupe-roadster? I have seen at least a hundred of them advertised. I have never seen anything to indicate that any such thing was ever built and sold back in the day.

Bob Z, And you, my friend, are intelligent enough to ask. That makes you smarter than so many people. So please forgive my rant. Thank you.

Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

[Restorer32]

Actually Packard, in their print advertising, called their 1932 convertible models with roll up windows Coupe Roadsters. The exception that proves the rule maybe.

[Bob Zetnick]

Thanks for all the replies....I am still somewhat confused, but it seems the name has been out there a while and not just a marketing ploy for resale. I have never heard the term "coupe roadster" ( first thing that comes to mind is the term "cabriolet") yet so am awaiting to see that one. Yes, Wayne, I like to call the cars the same terms manufacturers originally used and not reinvent a name.....of course if I see a touring w/ a Rex type top on it I may really scratch my head! :confused:

[joe_padavano]

I like to call the cars the same terms manufacturers originally used and not reinvent a name.....

And yet... Mercedes calls this car a "coupe"!

[Rusty_OToole]

Rover made a 3 liter, 4 door in the sixties they called a coupe. It had a lower roof line than the sedan, excuse me, saloon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_P5

[Guest cben09]

Can annyone pull up a pic of the huge Renault at the Larz Anderson Museum,,,

I think that body will settle a lot,,,er,,,aaah,,,well maybee,,then again

Let me know what you all think,,Cheers,,Ben

ps,,and to think it was always Chauffeur driven,,ahh the word escapes me

[knee-action]

My one and only antique car is a 1934 Chevrolet Cabriolet. That’s the official name, and it is used in all the 1934 Chevrolet sales literature and parts books. This car is a convertible with roll up windows and a rumble seat. But it is referred to as a “closed car” in the parts books. Evidently, the only “open cars” were those with side curtains, i.e., roadsters and phaetons. I’m sure that distinction was very comforting to rumble seat passengers caught in a sudden downpour.

Edited July 3, 2014 by knee-action
spelling (see edit history)

[LI_BENTLEY]

In the middle 50's helped clean out an old house for estate, had a Hudson from late 30's that went to junk yard it was a "touring sedan" on some paperwork, never forgot it, I was too young to drive.

[1937hd45]

Thank you for all your posts Ben. This is link to the afore mentioned Renault, personally I think the 1906 G.P. models were better looking. Bob http://larzanderson.org/about/history/the-collection/1912-renault/

Can annyone pull up a pic of the huge Renault at the Larz Anderson Museum,,,

I think that body will settle a lot,,,er,,,aaah,,,well maybee,,then again

Let me know what you all think,,Cheers,,Ben

ps,,and to think it was always Chauffeur driven,,ahh the word escapes me

[bhambulldog]

That Renault is what i would call a dual cowl phaeton. (Right?)

[Restorer32]

Packard called their 1932 2 door sedan a Coupe Sedan. Packard also referred to 4 door convertibles with roll up windows as closed cars. Personaly I consider a cabriolet to be a 2 door convertible with roll up windows and external landau bars.

[Guest cben09]

Re page 14,,Renault,,If memory is correct,,it had a jump seat on the verry rear,,

The top was a short Victoria style , accented by the rear windshield,,,

Cheers,,Ben

[Marty Roth]

I've been referring to my 1930 Packard 733 as a "Phaeton". Now I've seen a list which refers to the 5-passenger open 4-door with side curtains as a Phaeton, but my 7-passenger with jump seats is sometimes referred to as a "Touring".

[Restorer32]

Yep, if it's a Packard with jump seats it's a Touring, if no jump seats it's a Phaeton, if it has a second windshield it's a Dual Cowl Phaeton. Now and then we make stainless top irons for these cars and the first thing I always do is determine whether the car is a Touring or a Phaeton. The top irons and bows are different. Many owners call Tourings Phaetons.

[Marty Roth]

Restorer32,

The second windshield and its wind wings fold in and fold down, and also can slide rearward to the faces of back-seat passengers. There is not an extended metal surface which would have to lift to allow entry for back-seat passengers (which some have described as the 2nd cowl). There is a metal area behind the front seat to which the 2nd windshield is attached - so is it in your opinion, a "Dual Cowl", a "Touring", or what?

[Restorer32]

It's a Touring with a second windshield. Not sure Packard had a separate name for this configuration. The extended metal "cowl" which lifts up to allow passengers to enter or leave is what distinguishes a DC Phaeton from a simple Phaeton. The Phaeton and DC Phaeton use the same body. The Touring body is longer and I think slightly narrower. Jump seats it's a Touring. No jump seats it's a Phaeton or a DC Phaeton.

[john2dameron]

It's pretty much useless to try to decide what body style some cars are because some would use a name for a certain model and others would use the same name for an entirely different model. One example, brougham. I thought a brougham was a deluxe 4-Door but to Hudson it was a typical coupe style with a short seating area and a long trunk. Go figure. Also two people will have an exact looking body style from the '30's for example and one will call it one thing and the other will call it something else. Trying to sort them out will make your head spin more than the wheels do.

[Pomeroy41144]

In 1936 and 1937 Ford manufactured two sedan types--Fordor Sedan (slantback) and Fordor Touring Sedan (humpback). Both had integral trunks. Among those who don't know any better, any five window Ford coupe from the late 1930s is a "Business Coupe", even if they are not. On a related note, a young idiot insisted that his 1980s Cadillac Coupe DeVille was a hardtop. Of course it is not. I pointed out that his car had a "B-pillar". His response, "What's a B-pillar?"

[Guest cben09]

In the early 20s Dodge made a regular sedan,,,they also made

a leather interior,,called a business sedan, Did many others offer this?

Cheers,,Ben

[Guest CoupeExpress]

Studebaker produced both Cruising Sedans and Custom Sedans in 1937, the cruising sedans had the bustle trunk, the custom sedans had the swept back, smaller trunk. BUT, they called their 2 door sedans, St. Regis Cruising or St. Regis Custom sedans, again based on bustle or swept back trunks. I'm basing this on the terms used by Studebaker in their own sales brochures. I've always understood Touring sedans had the larger trunk, for more luggage, as needed when Touring cross-country. Apparently, Studebaker disagreed. Perhaps it was a term under copyright, by one make or another.

[Restorer32]

What Packard folk like to refer to as the Dual Cowl Phaeton was actually called the Sport Phaeton by Packard. I don't think Packard ever actually used the term Dual Cowl Phaeton. Years ago we had a Marmon Touring in the shop which had twin air vents on the cowl. My guys referred to it as the Dual Cowl Vent Phaeton.