6 Volt Optima Battery Mounting

[TexRiv_63]

I went out to take my Packard for a ride a few days ago and it wouldn't start or turn over. I checked the battery and found a loose negative cable but after tightening it still would not turn over. I pulled the battery out, checked it with a meter which showed 4.5 volts, low but not dead. I topped off the fluid and hooked it up to my Battery Tender. Left it charge that afternoon and was surprised that it was still charging when I went to bed. Next morning, still charging, not good! Short story the battery is toast so I have ordered a 6 volt Optima. These are great batteries but as you may know the 6 volt version is very small, only 10" long by 7" wide by 8" high. The battery tray in my car is an open design under the drivers seat made for an older giant sized battery (See photo). While a normal rectangular battery worked OK in the space, I will need to enclose the Optima in something to keep it from moving around. I'm assuming many of you have had similar situations with your older cars, what did you do to fix it?

[stock_steve]

I bought one of these, Don, but found it kinda too big for under my 6v VW Bug's back seat:

www.foreignintrigue.com - OPTIMA CLOAKING DEVICE FITS ONLY 1960 - 1965

Maybe one of these might work well, though, for your car's "older giant sized battery" bay...

Edited July 5, 2013 by stock_steve (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

Don, I bought a pair of these Optima batteries, strapped them in Parallel, and they fit perfectly in my 1930 Packard as well as in my 1941 Cadillac. Two of these are the same size as on older Group-1 or taller Group-2 battery. You might just fill in the void space with a wood block if you don't want a second battery. By the way, I found them locally, but very expensive, and in many cases they had been on the store shelf for up to 2 years prior to sale. I bought mine fresh through Amazon.com for +/- $115 to 123.00/each with free shipping. They arrived quickly and in good condition.

[Grimy]

A second Optima is a rather pricey spacer! How about filling the extra space in the battery box with oil bottles? That's what I do on my Pierce Series 80 with a battery box sized for a Group 2 wet cell.

That said, I do indeed run a pair of Optimas in each of my Pierce 8s which took Group 3 wet cell batteries. Pierce 12s used a Group 4. I use a pair of Optimas more to compensate for the charging deficit when running at night with the lights on.

The 1930 and 1934 Pierce 8s have a generator which produces only 25 amps cold, 17 amps hot after the thermal reduction kicks in. I've upgraded the rear lights (separate tail and stop light bulbs, each is single contact) to #1129 single contact for increased visibility at night, so they have a greater electrical draw than factory bulbs. The 17 amps is insufficient to run headlights, ignition and taillights, with occasional stop light usage, so I'm running at a deficit. The 6V Optima has only 90-100 amp-hrs (AH) of reserve capacity. The specs for the 1934 P-A factory wet cell (Group 3) show 140 AH reserve capacity for the 8s, and 165 AH for the 12s. A **pair** of Optimas in parallel will give you 180-200 AH of reserve.

Optimas pay for themselves in longevity. The pair in my 1930 are 13 years old, and they crank as fast as they ever did. Optimas don't lose their charge over a few winter months of disuse, so one really doesn't need to use a float charger. But don't let Optimas go flat--they seem to be intolerant of a major discharge, and frequently don't recover from such an event.

So for your Packard, Don, I'd be inclined to go with Marty's suggestion to run a pair of Optimas in parallel, particularly if you will be using it at night.

For what it may be worth....

Edited July 5, 2013 by Grimy
correct typo (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

I bought one of these, Don, but found it kinda too big for under my 6v VW Bug's back seat:

www.foreignintrigue.com - OPTIMA CLOAKING DEVICE FITS ONLY 1960 - 1965

Maybe one of these might work well, though, for your car's "older giant sized battery" bay...

Thanks Steve, that's a cool idea but an awful lot of money for a box. I'm more concerned with inexpensive function than appearance.

[keiser31]

I would go to a marine outlet and get a plastic or rubber battery case and set it in the original space. You may find one that will fit. Paint it black and nobody will really notice it underneath. If there is still movement of the battery inside, a block of wood works quite well as a wedge and is cheap.

Edited July 5, 2013 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

Thanks Marty and George. I ordered my Optima from Amazon also, best deal I could find. I should have saved the one I had in my 32 Caddy, forgot to switch it before I sold! I want to stick with one battery for now although that would be an easy upgrade later. I think my main concern here is what type of box should I use for the battery to fill the space and be able to tie it down to the small base. I can figure out how to space the Optima once I know what box is best.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Thanks Steve, that's a cool idea but an awful lot of money for a box. I'm more concerned with inexpensive function than appearance. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Especially expensive considering the company is out of business.

[Grimy]

Don, you can build a spacer (interior box) out of 1 x 4 or 1 x 6 lumber in about 15 minutes, then paint it flat black to make it less visible.

If you're not using #1129 bubs in at least your stop lights, give them a try--you'll be pleasantly surprised at the improvement.

[stock_steve]

Thanks Steve, that's a cool idea but an awful lot of money for a box. I'm more concerned with inexpensive function than appearance. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Especially expensive considering the company is out of business.

Figured it would not hurt to pass along some potentially helpful info. I am sorry that it was not considered useful.

[DavidMc]

The Optima batteries have protruding lugs at each end at their base. To hold them down you need to make "L" shaped brackets bolted the base of the battery box.

I have 6v Optimas in 3 cars and the oldest Optima is 11 years old - it still starts the car although its not as strong as it used to be.

I recently did a tour in our 1929 Packard that required a few hours of night driving and with only about 8 amps from the generator it does not keep up with the current draw of the lights so I fitted 2 Optimas in the car. The next morning there was still plenty left to start the car.

Here in Australia the 6V Optimas are up around $200 each so 2 per car is getting a bit expensive but it gives a huge reserve of available current.

[Curti]

I have seen red and yellow top 6V Optimas what is the difference?

[TexRiv_63]

Thanks for all your responses, I think I will go the local built wood box route. That way I can size it to fit snugly within the existing brackets and brace the battery as needed inside. I'll post the results on my Restoration thread.

[TexRiv_63]

I have seen red and yellow top 6V Optimas what is the difference?

I think the yellow tops are "deep cycle" batteries for marine or industrial use but don't know the actual difference.

[DavidMc]

Keep in mind that any battery needs to held down not just held from moving sideways. The consequences from a serious accident with a dislodged battery shorting to the frame and leaking fuel do not bear thinking about.

[TexRiv_63]

Keep in mind that any battery needs to held down not just held from moving sideways. The consequences from a serious accident with a dislodged battery shorting to the frame and leaking fuel do not bear thinking about.

Very good point! On my Packard the fuel line is mounted to the inside of the frame rail - right next to the battery. And I'm ashamed to say the old battery was only held down by the cables, may be part of the reason it died. I will take care of this with the new mount.

[Guest bofusmosby]

On my 37 Pontiac, the battery also is placed under the floor of the drivers feet. The original metal frame for the battery is long since gone, and the previous owner had installed some metal straps for the battery to set into. Don, mine is also not mounted to anything, and just the cables are holding it into position, as well as the metal straps. I had to charge up my battery this afternoon just to start the car, so I am thinking of getting an Optima battery to replace it. I also have the concern about the additional lights I have installed, with the thought that my generator will not put out enough power to kkkep the battery charged if driving at night.

Marty, when you connect the batteries (2 of the Optima's) in parallel, how are you doing the connections? Any photos of what you have done? The only place I can see where they could be connected would be at the generator. The threaded post is long enough to fit another cable before installing the nut, and the same goes with the ground. Is this the way you did it?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Not Marty, but I can tell you the BEST way to do it. The positive terminals connect together. The negative terminals connect. Go to a GOOD auto electric shop and have the cables made. Depending on conditions,.

Ben

[Guest bofusmosby]

Ben, I know that the 2 positive and 2 negative terminals of the batteries have to be connected together, but after spending the $ on the second battery, I don't believe that I would be able to spend the extra amount to have these cables specially made. If both batteries were to be connected to the same terminals/connection point, wouldn't this basically be the same? I remember before I finally went to a Tractor Supply store, I had made many calls to places around town just to get the size cable I needed, but was unsuccesful in finding someone who could make me a custom cable of the correct gauge. By doing it the way I mentioned, this would give me the ability to just buy the larger gauge at the store, which would be cheaper then paying the extra money to have these cables specially made, so that the connection would be made right at the batteries.

Opinions?

[TexRiv_63]

It's not hard to make your own custom cables, I did it on my 28 Pierce. I bought the cable and terminals at Restoration Supply but they are probably available elsewhere. You use solder slugs which you put in the terminal ends, melt with a propane torch, and shove the cable in.

[37_Roadmaster_C]

Jim,

Either way will work very well. If you have custom cables made things look better because there is only one cable visible in the engine area. If you opt to use two sets of cables it is easy to do and one possible advantage is that if you choose to go back to one battery you simply remove the extra cables and you are good to go. Myself, I would go for the custom cables as the looks are more important to me than the cost or the ease of installation. Just my thoughts.

Robin

[Marty Roth]

Cables can be found in almost any length on Ebay in "000" Triple Aught, cheaper than having them custom made, but there are attachments Or look at this NAPA part: NAPA AUTO PARTS and this one: NAPA AUTO PARTS but what I have on my 1941 Caddy is different, and I may be able to get photos later in the week. I is a brass clamp which is made , one for positive, one for negative. Each has a cable going to the like-post of the second battery, and a second post made on top for the regular cable to attach. I imagine that RV dealers would stock these as many motor homes have racks of batteries. Good luck..

[Guest bofusmosby]

Hmmm, this might work.

2 Pcs Positive Negative Top Post Battery Cable T End 000 Gauge 9 16" ID | eBay

[TexRiv_63]

Here is an update on this with a problem! I received the Optima yesterday, charged it up and temporarily installed it today to move the car with plans to work on the battery box tomorrow. It started up fine, ran well, and I got it moved over. When I shut it off I noticed the ammeter showed a major discharge of 25-30 amps, almost pegging the gauge. I started it back up and it showed a 15 amp charge at fast idle dropping to just over zero at slow idle which seemed normal, but the heavy discharge came back when I shut it off. I made sure the light switch was in the off position and visually checked that no lights were burning. Seeing no obvious problem I disconnected the battery and will start checking things tomorrow. This car has operated perfectly for the last four months with no battery drain or starting problems and I left the battery connected all the time, now all of a sudden the old battery dies and this major drain appears, has anyone else had a similar problem? If so what caused it and how did you fix it? I admit that when it comes to electrical problems its all "magic smoke in the wires" to me, any help would be appreciated.

[Guest bofusmosby]

So, what you are saying is when your car is turned off, there is a huge pull on the battery? If so, then disconnect the battery, and see if there is a good spark when connected up. If so, then you might have to disconnect various items until you see the draw go away. I'm really green when it comes to old cars, but I am an electronic technician, so I work with voltage and current in my profession. My daily driver is a 93 Oldsmobile, and I was having the same problem. Mine turned out to be the glove-box switch was bad, and the glove-box light was always on. Of course, this is not your problem, but I had to find it with a process of elimination. Of course this means that your original battery might have not been bad. Your charger was still registering it as charging because there was a draw on the battery.

I know that someone else will chime in with a lot better info than I can give.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

As Jim says you should start taking things apart. A trick is to do it in the dark so you can see the spark. If you have fuses pull them out in the dark..

[Paul Dobbin]

Tex,

On old Fords, when that happens, the cutout is stuck. Does you Packard use a regulator or a cutout?

Paul

[TexRiv_63]

Tex,

On old Fords, when that happens, the cutout is stuck. Does you Packard use a regulator or a cutout?

Paul

Paul, I think you called it. The Packard uses a cutout and someone had replaced the original with a solid state version. I just disconnected it and checked, no discharge. Upon removal and further inspection the resin used to enclose the electronics has melted indicating a severe short-out. I will look for a new cutout and start working on my battery box. Here are some pics, the first one is how it looked when I got the car.

[50 Dodge Lug Nut]

I can't offer any advice on your battery drainage or "shorts", but do try these folks for a 6 volt cover/battery box/case for your Optima battery.

http://quailservices.com/index.html

I've been using one for about 3 years with no problems and I keep some extra spare parts inside the box.

Home

Regards,

Frank

Edited July 16, 2013 by 50 Dodge Lug Nut
Updated URL (see edit history)

[TexRiv_63]

Just an update if you followed this thread - I have finished the new battery box along with a new disconnect switch, cables, and cutout. Details and photos are on my restoration thread:

http://forums.aaca.org/f190/1934-packard-preservation-347762.html