Wood Spoke Wheel restoration

[Terry Bond]

Subscribing to the popular theory that the best way to "restore" old wood spoke wheels is to make new ones, I had Bill Calimer make a pair of front wheels for my 1914 T. I'm going on the Reliability Tour later this year and am starting now so they will be ready and reliable. The wheels on it were redone years ago using sound originals, but over time, the felloe has loosened up and I'm starting to see evidence of some wobble between wood and rim. The tell-tale red dust is a good indicator that things are not as safe as they once were and it's time to restore. Bill does a nice job and has all the correct spoke shape samples. I supplied him with all the steel/iron parts - two new clincher rims, two NOS hubs, bolts, nuts, and plates to fasten the felloe halves together.

First step in the process was to create some sort of mounting system so I could get the wheels into a position where I could easily work on them. I also wanted them free to rotate so I could do a better and more thorough job painting them.

My son was visiting this week from his US Coast Guard base in Mobile Alabama. He is pretty handy and really enjoyes coming up with stuff like this.

I cleaned up a couple of old spindles and we mounted them into a angle iron bracket that holds the spindle and also the arm so they are stable. Once we put the new bearing races into the wheels, we were all set to mount them on the spindles. This bracket can be mounted into my old Black-n-Decker workmate. It puts them at the right height so I can sit in a chair and sand-away at them easily. I can seal, prime and paint them right as they are. Will use some old hubcaps and dust seals to keep things clean at the bearing areas.

After a light initial sanding, I'll use the West System to fill the wood, then conventional automotive primer/surfacer and some nice black paint with a suitable hardner. I can even use this set up to mount tires later. From experience, it's easier to do it when them mounted on the car. This should work even better. I'll post a few more pics later as the project progresses but thought folks might like to see the device we came up wth to hold the wheels while we work on them. If anyone has other ideas - lets see some pics.

Terry

[nickelroadster]

Looks like this will work pretty well. I usually like to rig a barbecue spit motor so that it will slowly turn the wheels as you paint them. This makes it easy to get full and even coverage.

[trimacar]

This is a good setup. Your plan for sealing, filling and so forth is correct. The tough part of getting wheels for paint is the preparation.

You soon find out that wheel spokes have an infinite number of surfaces, both when sanding and when painting. You can sand and sand, turn, sand and sand, turn, sit back, and then see an angle you never saw before that you've never touched.

Same thing happens when painting.

Have fun!

[Terry Bond]

I've heard all the warnings about how you think it's right and then you find a spot that needs a bit more work/gloss. I have saved a BBQ motor for years just for this work and will mount it below the bench. Could use a long belt running over the rim to turn it slowly, or perhaps even some kind of rubber "wheel" pressing against the inside of the rim. We'll experiment with that during priming to make it work out.

Terry

[W_Higgins]

I built my wheel spinner from an old engine stand. At first it was powered by a small gear reduction motor, but after it burned up and I needed to use it for a job, I found that I liked it better without. Now I just index it by hand and can start-and-stop it at will. When it was motorized it was just a process of fogging the wheel, which was wasteful of paint, hard to see what was getting good coverage and what was not, and disorienting!

Now I manually index to hit every surface, give it a whirl to spray the rim, and when I'm satisfied with the last coat, just stand there and spin it for a few minutes until the paint tacks enough not to run. I cut the upright to kick the spindle back at an angle so the work is facing you naturally when standing there and it's spaced far enough from the upright to reach all the surfaces:

Edited March 23, 2012 by W_Higgins (see edit history)

[Pete O]

Just a basic question- how is the rim attached to the felloe on a wood wheel?

[critterpainter]

Its shrunk onto the wood fellow, if you have a flat you get to change the tire right on the wheel, its a real joy if you have clinchers

Bill

[old car fan]

Also ,plan on bloody/blistered fingers from the sanding.Good luck.

[Pete O]

Its shrunk onto the wood fellow, if you have a flat you get to change the tire right on the wheel, its a real joy if you have clinchers

Bill

That's all? Just a shrink fit- no screws from the rim into the felloe? Wow.

[Seldenguy]

Pete -- Normally they are bolted or rivited through the fellow splice plates(the fellow is in two pieces). They then may have two or more bolts or rivets equally spaced around the fellow. This holds the rim to the wooden fellow that was shrunk on as previously explained. On rims that are demountable the fellow bands are what is attached to the wheel by the bolting or riveting process. --Bob

[Terry Bond]

Bob's right - my T wheels are rived through the two metal plates joining each half of the felloe. There are two more rived spaced at the mid-point on each half. I'm really pleased with the new ones. Sanding the bare wood is progressing. Next step is to begin applying the sealer. A couple of coats sanded well and I can begin with the primer. Can't wait for that first coat of nice shinny black! (I keep telling myself to be patient, I don't need them until late summer!)

Terry

[Terry Bond]

Time for an update - these things take time, and time has been slipping away as the AACA Reliability Tour approaches. I decided to really get cranking (no pun intended) on the project so we wouldn't be rushing around with half dry paint trying to mount tires at the last minute. Well, we should be ok as I just shot paint this afternoon. Between the first post and now, here is what we did. Hopefully the pics will show it all.

I applied a coat of West System sealer. This is really great stuff but goes on thicker than I expected it would. Very short pot life so you need to work quick to cover the wheels. Plenty of sanding before application smooths it out and helps. It dires so fast I was amazed. Had a bit left in the bottom of my plastic pail that hardened like a brick. The thermal reaction was so great it was really hot to the touch when I went to clean up and dispose of the left overs. I used foam burshes to apply it and ensure good coverage.

After a week it was on to the sandpaper. I used 220 grit tape style paper initially, then switched to 400 grit for final smoothing. It realy makes working on the spokes easier. Lots of sanding! Fingers were numb! After I sanded everything smooth, I cleaned carefully then shot a urethane primer from Sherwin Williams. It was nice stuff, goes on and builds quickly. What little grain remained showing after the West System was filled nicely with the primer. From there, it was back to the sandpaper. Used mainly 400 this time around and it came out pretty decent. I went over everythig once with 800 to make shure it was slick. That part didn't take long at all in comparison.

Today, I shot the black. It was really humid so I backed the cars out of the garage, hung some tarps, set up my air flow and in air conditioned comfort, show a nice coat of black acrylic with hardener. It turned out pretty nice. I'm going to let it set a week then mount my tires with new flaps and tubes.

I'm not going to do anything else to them unless someone has a good recommendation from this point.

For those of you who have done wood spoke wheels what kid of paint and finishing do you usually do?

Terry

[Luv2Wrench]

The paint looks fantastic. Great job!!

[Durant Mike]

Hi Terry;

I'm fixing to start work on my Durant wooden wheels and have enjoyed your post. Mine are painted now, but I plan on bringing them back to a natural finish. There have been great debates on the forum about letting the wood breathe and not using a polyurethane like Minwax etc on the wooden wheels. I see you used some sort of acrylic sealer on your wood then painted them. I wonder what the difference would be in using something like Minwax or a pollyurethane clear on your wood spokes? By the way they look great!

[Terry Bond]

My experience refinishing furniture with poly is pretty decent and I wouldn't use it on wood wheels. If you get a chip or break in the finish caused by flexing, stone chips, etc, the water will get in under the finish and lift it. I think if you are going with natural finish, some nice stain and then a good marine grade spar varnish works best. I think "breathing wood" is a misnomer - the grain is either open or it's sealed. One allows moisture in, the other helps prevent it.

[KenHupp20]

They look wonderful ! I used Centari w/ gloss/hardner many years ago on my wood wheels and they still have that "wet look".

Did you use the 207 hardner in the epoxy ?

I might add Amen to your comments on Spar Varnish , it will move more with the wood, poly etc. will be too brittle.

Ken

[Durant Mike]

Thanks Terry & Ken

Probably a good Marine grade Spar Varnish is the answer. I'll go with that.

[Terry Bond]

And now for the fun of mounting clincher tires. Doing it without any tools if possible.

Got the 1st one done, mounted half, tube and liner in place, put a few lbs air in it to hold it in shape, and s-q-e-e-z-e-d in on with plenty of lube. My arms and fingers are tired! After a brief rest, managed to pop most of the other side on but did have to break out my favorite tool for the last bit. Cushioned it carefully and can call it a success with only one minor snaffu that is easily touched up. I mounted everything from the back side so there wouldn't be any markes at all on the front. Have 65 lbs air in it now and am going to put the speedo gear on and install grease seal, etc. Hope to mount and test drive soon. Looks pretty good.

It would be interesting to share your tales and tricks in mounting clincher tires. Brute strength seems a technique that works well, but what other experiences are out there. I did all four new tires years ago and recall the 1st one took half a day, and it got progressively better from there. I mounted new tires on the rear with wheels on the car and it seemed much easier that way.

Terry

[Guest PIKESPEAKING]

I DON'T DO CLINCHERS AND HOPE I NEVER HAVE TO BUT HERE IS A LINK TO A METHOD THAT WORKS FOR MY MODEL T FRIEND. HE TRIED IT ON A VERY OLD AND STIFF TIRE AND WAS SURPRISED AT HOW EASY THE TIRE WENT ON.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=clincher%20tire%20plastic%20bag&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFwQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DP6sH8WRl6yI&ei=QoIhUM_6A6rr0gGq4IBo&usg=AFQjCNHrEYySBvq4Uew2hZi27QBVt1hFHg

[Terry Bond]

I'm pleased to report that my new wheel did great on the recent Reliability Tour. It looked so good I'm ready to finish the set (a winter project). Heck, I'm not even afraid to tackle Clinchers! I put the first set on the car years ago and although they are still pretty good, I've got at least one (on the wheel that was getting loose) that has some tread wear, so it'll need replacing eventually. I'ts nice having that "you can do it" confidence.

As far as the video of the plastic bag trick, I've seen that beore. I note he uses a wheel from a 1921 Peugeot (wire) that resembles more of motorcycle wheel than the heavier wood spoke T wheel. Although the video looks good, and makes it seem so easy, I also note he uses a simple rim strip over the spoke ends, more like a wide rubber band that stretches to protect the underside of the tube. For the T, I used genuine Flaps - they are thick in the center that goes over the rim and taper to a thin edge. They are quite wide and made to fit up into the tire casing to help protect the tube not only on the bottom side against the rim but also curl up the sides of the tube to protect it from chaffing inside the tire casing. With 65lbs air in them I think it gives some added strength. With all that up inside the tire casing, it makes it considerably more difficult to squeeze everythig onto a clincher rim.

I'd sure like to hear from some T guys who have mouted tires onto the early clincher rims using that plastic bag trick. Anyone out there tried it before?

Terry

[trimacar]

Glad all went well, the wheel turned out great. Clincher tire stories? Well, my Hupp 30 x 3 clincher had a flat, and I have those Vietnamese made tires that just barely fit. To take it off and get it on, put in in my big vise, about shoulder level.

I ended up with five stitches in my scalp, trying to get that tire on. Let's just say, don't use a big tire iron, bending over, and have it above your head when it slips......

[Durant Mike]

Hi Terry

Just got done taking my wheels apart. Mine are Hayes wheels on the Durant and have the 19" tires. I removed the hub bolts, using a piece of wood removed the hub and then using another piece of wood tapped on the spokes until they came loose from the fellow. All my spokes look good and just need striping of the two old coats of paint and probably some bleeching to get all the old paint stain out of them. I want to return them to a natural look too. Started bead blasting my hubs and they're coming out great. Ordered some good varnish from an old boat restoration supply place and have contacted Autocolor Library to see if they can mix me up some paint for the hub and fellow to match the color I'm painting the car. It wasn't as much trouble as I thought it would be to take them apart. Your wheels look great.

[Rusty_OToole]

How Henry did it. Building the Model T, wheel assembly about 1:10 to 1:48. I imagine yours took more than 38 seconds lol.