Perfect exhaust set up for '63 401 nailhead???

[Guest middleman]

Hey fellas, I am just days away from taking ownership of a '63 Riv and one of the things I'm most excited about is the 445 Wildcat. Until now I've noodled around with a 200CI Ford, 283 V8, and 350 small block so the 401 Nailhead will be the biggest block I've worked with so far.

The condition of this Riviera right now is that the aftermarket side pipes were removed just after the exhaust manifolds so the car is in need of a completely new exhaust system. My 283 has a stock exhaust with a free flowing muffler y'ed off and singled and pretty quiet. My 350 has the bruiser 3" straight pipes with bullet racing mufflers and you can't hear yourself think.

My thought about the Riv is that it's luxury muscle so I'd like to stick to factory look but I also want to get a good V8 rumble out of it.

Any specific brands of muffler that will sound good but also allow me to enjoy some tunes and conversation in the car?

Thanks so much,

John B

[bepnewt]

Welcome to the fold!

There are quite a few posts on here about stock mufflers for the 1st Gens, the ins-and-outs, etc. I don't recall seeing too many about aftermarket exhaust, but I'm relatively new and I bet they've been discussed before.

My '64 has a 401 Nailhead transplanted from a '63 or '65 and it doesn't have a stock exhaust. I think it sounds great, for sure. It's not real loud, but it has a nice muscle car sound to it. When I push down that right foot, I definitely know by sound that I have a big-*** powerplant hiding under the hood. I wish I knew more about what exact exhaust system I have, but I don't.

You're going to get some suggestions from people on the exhaust and also on joining the Riv Owners Assn. and picking up some digital manuals and service bulletins. I joined and got the CDs and am incredibly glad I did. Someone like you who knows how to "noodle" around with cars will get even more use out of them.

Love the "Bread Sled"!

-BEPNewt

[RivNut]

Rather than rehash a previously discussed topic, I'm attaching the link to a previous thread that pretty much sums up all of your questions.

Enjoy your '63; last year for the Dynaflow. Not too peppy, not too effecient, but one smoooooooooth transmission.

http://forums.aaca.org/f177/exhaust-dilemma-310558.html

After checking out the thread on exhauts, check out the Riviera Owner's Website. ROA member's, most of whom are not affiliated with this website, have more information about your car than you'll hopefully need.

www.rivowners.org

Ed

[steelman]

http://forums.aaca.org/f177/1964-riviera-new-exhaust-muffler-pictures-292276.html

Try this entry too. Deals more with aftermarket exhaust. You can do a search of the board and come up with others as well.

[PONTIAC1953]

hi middleman, i used to own and drive a 1962 pontiac grand prix, that i put a 1970 pontiac 455 V8 into it, i ran dual exhaust with turbo mufflers, it was the loudest at 1500 rpms, but nowhere too loud that you could talk to others inside the car. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.

[Bleach]

Enjoy your '63; last year for the Dynaflow. Not too peppy, not too effecient, but one smoooooooooth transmission.

Ed

I don't know what's so inefficient about that transmission. I regularly got fuel economy in the mid teens. Getting 16 MPG's on RUG was usually the norm on my car. Also I had no problem lighting up the rear tires.

I was very happy with the transmission in the '63 I had.

I had a stock exhaust and it was fine. It wasn't loud at all and actually could have sounded a bit more powerful though.

[RivNut]

The Dynaflow has so many fluid drive parts and so few mechanical drive parts. I've read that only about 85% of the energy from the engine gets through the transmission. I love the one in my '63, for all the right reasons. It's also pretty quick, but it's not as mechanically efficient as a TH400. And as the '63 chassis manual says, I do NOT use L for any reason other than "getting out of snow or sand."

Ed

[Bleach]

That's true. Most of the power loss was due to the torque converter. I'd like to drive a '64 or a '65 some day, or better yet buy one, for comparison.

[lrlforfun]

OK John Middle Man: I have an opinion about the stock exhaust on first-gen Rivs. They are super quiet, super smooth, and these cars seem to run their very best with a dead stock factory system. Maybe it's mythology but it's a feeling I get. Unfortunately the stock system didn't last all that long and was somewhat expensive to replace.

A friend of mine's Father had an Amoco station in the 60's. One feature he claimed was that the unleaded gas that they sold helped increase muffler life as well as many other things. Of course, today it's all unleaded so who really knows. I still prefer the stock exhaust system even if I'm, scientifically wrong about it. Mitch.

[petelempert]

Exhaust options on the first gens are a little tricky. The car is low and the x frame make it so. That said, in my mind it's really about personal preference. If you want it factory original and mostly whisper quiet...go with the stock replacement. Even the factory set up has some noise when you dip into the throttle. I wanted a little "motor boat rumble" so I went with 2 1/2 pipes, glasspacks mid-way and resonators tucked under the rear quarters. No x pipe. but I plan on adding in future. Had a really good shop fab it. It's not original...but it sounds sexy as hell. Not high lift cam, hot rod sound...but a low rumble. At speed, it's quiet and no popping when you lift off the throttle. PRL

[Guest middleman]

Great to see some response on this issue. I've been slowed down by a sticky carb (due to ethanol i guess) and so the carter 4barrell has been rebuilt and is ready for action. As for the many exhaust options I actually discovered a couple of cherry bomb resonators in the trunk that are ready to install so I think I'll have them welded on straight and see how they sound and run. with much of my attention needing to be spent on an interior redo I'll just leave it at that.

Thanks again guys,

JB

[bullheimer]

not a lot to go on here. shheeesh! my bomb has the stock single exhaust and it leaks so much the wife wont drive it. gotta getta new muffler since its broken at the pipe into the muffler.  doesnt look like a lot of room to add dual exhausts, and with a stock engine dont see a real need, but i don't know the 401 either.  i want a Classic Chambered Powerstick at least.  I suppose i'll drive the sled over to the budget exhaust place and have them give me a price for both duals and for RnRing the single muffler after i order it from www.classicchambered.com     it's basically, from what i can see, just a glasspack without the glass.

[RivNut]

ALL 63 - 65 Rivieras, 401s and 425s, came from the factory with dual exhausts.

[RIVNIK]

Recently installed an entire Waldrons exhaust in my '65. It's said to be an exact repro of the factory system. They offer different mufflers depending on what kind of sound you want. I chose the stock version but I believe it is a bit louder than original. Great service, nice people, long history, & good reputation. I did experience a fitment problem on one pipe which was ironed out with help from Waldrons. if interested you can PM me for details of my experience. Good luck!        Drew

[60FlatTop]

I have not had good luck with any manual pipe benders who slide a pipe down a mandrel and bend x degrees at x inches. I do everything I can to purchase NOS or NORS replacement stock from OEM or major brands. I watch Ebay and Craigslist for those original replacements. I buy spares when I find them. Jolly John on the Forum has provided a couple of correct Rivera over the axle pipes with proper balls and flanges.

Many Buick exhaust connections use a ball and flange. The original style flanges are stamped and mated with nutserts. Companies like Waldrons provides flat flanges with studs and nuts. They will not adapt to any pipes other than theirs, only the slip joints. On my '60 Electra I replaced "fitment problem" pipes with NOS and had to modify the NOS pipes to fit the supplied muffler. I found the fabricated muffler too loud for mine taste and replaced it with an NOS GM muffler. Then the modified pipes NOS didn't fit right.

 

Presently my three Buicks are all fitted with NOS or equivalent systems that I intend to maintain (repair if needed). I will also watch for manufactured pipes and buy what comes up for any of my older cars.

 

In your situation I would have a local shop fabricate a usable system with your car right in front of them. Then water for those better manufactured pipes online and work your way into a new NOS style system.

 

I also thought the rumble would be nice for my '64 Riviera. I put a Dutchman in place of the original transverse muffler as an equalizer pipe and mounted two steel pack laminated fill Hushpower mufflers at the rear a few years ago. In the end it was too noisy for the luxury car I have. The new NOS system I gathered up will go on it next. The car will be whisper quiet.

[95Cardinal]

60FlatTop wrote: "Companies like Waldrons provides flat flanges with studs and nuts. They will not adapt to any pipes other than theirs, only the slip joints."

 

What Buick system(s) did you get from Waldron's that had slip joints instead of ball and socket joints?

[Jim Cannon]

48 minutes ago, 95Cardinal said:

60FlatTop wrote: "Companies like Waldrons provides flat flanges with studs and nuts. They will not adapt to any pipes other than theirs, only the slip joints."

 

What Buick system(s) did you get from Waldron's that had slip joints instead of ball and socket joints?

 

I think what he meant was that the slip joint parts of the aftermarket mufflers would mate up just fine to original pipe, but that the ball shaped joints would not because Buick used ball-shaped connections and aftermarket guys use flat flanges.

 

I went and looked at photos of the muffler on the Waldron website and it looks like a ball-shaped end to me, not a flat flange. I don't know if this photo is representative of the actual muffler you will receive or not. It might just be a generic photo.

 

Bernie has years of experience with aftermarket Riviera parts in general, lots of valuable experience, but he may not have actually purchased a muffler from Waldrons.  He can answer that himself.

 

[60FlatTop]

Jim interpreted my comments. I bought a complete dual system for my '60 Electra from Waldron's. I had fitment problems and a muffler that was louder than I would have expected the car to get off the showroom floor with. Because the flanges were not configured the same as original the NOS, quiet, muffler I bought could not be installed without modification.  The fitment issue was with the long front pipes. The curves from the manifold, left and right, were at different levels with one far lower than acceptable. Another set  was sent and it hit the frame and radius rods of the torque tube. I drove out to Chicago and bought a pair of the long front pipes NORS from Les Flaisher. The fit the rails but my muffler inlets had been modified because of the muffler so they were cut and fit as well. Without previously trying to make the new system work all that would have bolted in.

I now have a quiet car. both exhaust tone and rattle free. But modified front pipes and modified muffler. The slip joint Waldron tailpipes are on it unmodified. My $650 starting system only has two tailpipes left and right around $1400 total parts and labor. And I missed the Danvers Nationals because it rattled so bad.

 

That is my basis for preferring manufactured NORS or factory NOS parts exclusively. I have working systems on the '60 Electra, the '64 Riviera, and the '86 Park Ave convertible. I intend to weld repairs into any rust perforations in the pipes and patch and restuff sound deadener into the existing mufflers as needed.

A few years ago I was prowling through the Buffalo AACA Spring Nationals with my Electra. Two guys stopped me and asked "Is your car running or are you coasting?"

 

If I buy a future car with an obsolete exhaust system I will do my best to repair and restore what is left one bend at a time. Or gather up the manufactured parts from various sources.

That's not venting. That's sharing. And you can change every reference of mufflers to pattern cut flat glass on a shop table.

[BulldogDriver]

I agree with Bernie. I didn’t go with Waldons because they use 409 SS and not 316 SS. 409 will rust. Classic Exhausts is the vendor I used. I did have to take 4 of the pipes to a local muffler shop and had them flare the header pipe a bit, cut the resonator eliminators 1 1/2” shorter, and adjust one of the long pipes to fit properly. Gave the shop $50 to fix the issues. I did use Waldons hangers and other than opening holes for the muffler hanger they were spot on. All things considering it fits very well and looks pretty close to original from the photos I’ve seen. 
 

The biggest problem I see is finding NOS exhaust parts. I want to drive this beast again before I get too old too appreciate it. As with all things this old, especially Buicks, parts are rare and reproduction parts can be somewhat inferior to OEM. My exhaust wasn’t original and i don’t remember what it originally sound like, lost two 65’s in a fire back in 1980 that were original and don’t remember their sound,  so if it is too loud thats a trade off I’ll have to live with.  What I replaced on my car was not original by any stretch of the imagination. 
 

I’ve a 36 Cadillac Fleetwood and there is no factory service manual for it. They only did one for the regular Cadillac. Will have to fabricate the whole thing from scratch, luckily I have the header pipe to get it started. At least someone is repoing for our cars.

 

My story and 2 cents.

 

Ray

[bullheimer]

my 62 has a single, but i imagine buying a whole set up from Classic or Waldons would get me there but at what cost? I could probably have the local muff shop build one for the $1400 quoted above. granted, it wouldn't all come apart if i wanted to pull this pos Dynaglide tranny out or whatever it's called.  Right now just want to replace the rusted out portion above the rear passenger wheel so i dont have the fumes, plus my muffler has a hole in it too.  The ol hide refuses to drive it much because of the fumes. Well, the shop said they could do those things for just $400 so it sounds to me like the best way to go. This is after all just a stock engine. I'm only wondering basically what kind of muffler to use to make it sound good, not stock, not quiet. i was looking at Powersticks but might be loud? i dont know since it is mounted behind the back seat, dont see how it could be all that loud. it's a chambered exhaust, which is what they call it. looks like a glass pack without packing. i had them on the phone, i should have asked.  my muffler shop called a muffler 'chambered exhaust' so now i'm thoughouly confused.  my shop owner said a lot of trucks are using a Flowmaster on single exhausts.  maybe that would work too. he wants $250 for one just by itself, tho

[telriv]

Once you figure out what you want to use go to Summit or Jegs & buy it for much less.

Edited September 19, 2021 by telriv (see edit history)