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Just Bought a 1925 Touring!


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  • 1 month later...

Considering this is your first vintage car restoration, Mike, I think you are doing really well ! You certainly have attracted a lot of viewings and responses . (I have sent you a private message about my water pump problem because I have only had your response to my 2 postings). I recall you asking for pictures of interiors; if you look at my posting about the tourer roof you will see a photo of my car's interior. If it is of any use, I can send more photos . My car is 1926, a two unit 6 volt 116 so there may be many differences with yours if it is a 114; I am not an expert though and being in the UK there are not many other cars like ours here.

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Thanks Ray, it is my first antique car but I have done bodywork on more modern machines. It's nice that you have easy access when you can flip the body on it side or upside down (I suppose I could have made up a rotisserie). I did study your post on the top and have it book marked. If it is convenient, I'd like to see a few photos of the area on the back of front seat (as viewed by rear passenger). I've heard carpet is supposed to come up to the 2nd horizontal rib. Also, in the front seat foot wells, it there anything on the sides of the cowl or is is just painted sheet metal?

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Yes leather in open cars. I have something that I have read in the past that referanced 29/30 Dodge interior appointments and they went out of their way to mention that it should be obvious that no carpet would have been used in an open car due to mildew factor ect.

I cant seem to find the time to look into where I had read that though. Its on my list though :o

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Mike

Not sure about Budd bodied tourers but those built in Australia by Holdens certainly had carpet on the rear floor and halfway up the rear of the front seat. The tell tale signs are tags pressed out of the metal to retain the carpet.

I can help on the inside faces of the cowl - these were painted but fitted with thick welt to avoid drafts. The welt was made made from 1/2 inch cotton rope covered with leather. Look down the insides of the cowl and you will see the clips that retain the welt.

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Mike

Not sure about Budd bodied tourers but those built in Australia by Holdens certainly had carpet on the rear floor and halfway up the rear of the front seat. The tell tale signs are tags pressed out of the metal to retain the carpet.

I can help on the inside faces of the cowl - these were painted but fitted with thick welt to avoid drafts. The welt was made made from 1/2 inch cotton rope covered with leather. Look down the insides of the cowl and you will see the clips that retain the welt.

As far as the touring car bodies with carpeting, I have seen the same thing on some all original cars with Budd bodies. Unfortunately, I did not have the camera back then.

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MikeC5, I surely hope you are doing research somewhere else besides here. You are getting some bad info here. The four and six cylinder DBs are as differant as night and day. Do NOT use any info from a six cylinder car for your '25. Every touring car I've seen like yours has carpet behind the front seat.

Edited by nearchoclatetown (see edit history)
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The clips were also used to hold the soft panels that the leather or vinyl type material would have been attached to onto the interior framework.

I can provide pictures of varius clips used in my own car ( which is closed ) that hold these panels to inner metal and wood framework.

What would happen to carpet if it became wet? Even a dampness in the air left over from a cool night with the top down would ruin the carpet quickly that is why all open car were outfitted with leather upholstery.

You will not find an open car with any other fabric on its seats.

Its not a matter of 4 cyl versus 6 cyl, its a matter of common sense but again I would enjoy someone coming up with some sort of plausible argument with something substantial to back it up with other than seeing cars in the past with carpet.

When a car becomes restored the first thing people throw into them is carpet because its cheap, makes it look nice quickly and original pattern mats are no longer availabale nor are original grained leatherite and if it were somehow found it would not be cheap.

TonyAus gives un another hint in his initial post above by saying ............The welt was made made from 1/2 inch cotton rope covered with leather............underneath the cowl???

covered with leather????

Why wouldnt they just retain the cotton type woven material as a face like in my own closed car instead of covering it with a water resistant material?

Looking forward to someone proving me wrong so that another D.B open vehicle can be restored as original.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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Modern convertibles still use carpet to this day. Also, what happens if you track snow into a closed car with carpet? Common sense tells me I should take care of it and not depend on design to take complete care of my life.

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I own a 1924 Dodge Touring that has been in my Wife's family since new. It was used for a long while and then stored away in my her great uncle's barn until I retrieved it seven years ago. The car was worn out and some parts missing but completely original. The floors were covered with two different materials. The floor in the front compartment was covered with a dark gray linoleum and the rear floor boards had carpet held in place with six snap buttons. It was easily removed whenever one desired to do so. The back of the front seat was also covered half way up with the same type of carpet but was attached with trim screws. The seats, front and back, were covered in black leather and a different material around the base of the seats and door panels that looked like leather with a thin cloth backing. The car was purchased in Detroit Michigan by my wife's great uncle who was a floor manager at the Dodge Brothers Plant at the time the car was assembled. This information was given to me by his son Robert Pond.

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I own a 1924 Dodge Touring that has been in my Wife's family since new. It was used for a long while and then stored away in my her great uncle's barn until I retrieved it seven years ago. The car was worn out and some parts missing but completely original. The floors were covered with two different materials. The floor in the front compartment was covered with a dark gray linoleum and the rear floor boards had carpet held in place with six snap buttons. It was easily removed whenever one desired to do so. The back of the front seat was also covered half way up with the same type of carpet but was attached with trim screws. The seats, front and back, were covered in black leather and a different material around the base of the seats and door panels that looked like leather with a thin cloth backing. The car was purchased in Detroit Michigan by my wife's great uncle who was a floor manager at the Dodge Brothers Plant at the time the car was assembled. This information was given to me by his son Robert Pond.

Glad you cleared that up for all of us. The carpet configuration in the rear with the gray linoleum in front is how I have seen unrestored original touring cars. And MikeC5....I hope we did not hijack your thread for too long in straightening this out.

Edited by keiser31 (see edit history)
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The clips were also used to hold the soft panels that the leather or vinyl type material would have been attached to onto the interior framework.

I can provide pictures of varius clips used in my own car ( which is closed ) that hold these panels to inner metal and wood framework.

What would happen to carpet if it became wet? Even a dampness in the air left over from a cool night with the top down would ruin the carpet quickly that is why all open car were outfitted with leather upholstery.

You will not find an open car with any other fabric on its seats.

Its not a matter of 4 cyl versus 6 cyl, its a matter of common sense but again I would enjoy someone coming up with some sort of plausible argument with something substantial to back it up with other than seeing cars in the past with carpet.

When a car becomes restored the first thing people throw into them is carpet because its cheap, makes it look nice quickly and original pattern mats are no longer availabale nor are original grained leatherite and if it were somehow found it would not be cheap.

TonyAus gives un another hint in his initial post above by saying ............The welt was made made from 1/2 inch cotton rope covered with leather............underneath the cowl???

covered with leather????

Why wouldnt they just retain the cotton type woven material as a face like in my own closed car instead of covering it with a water resistant material?

Looking forward to someone proving me wrong so that another D.B open vehicle can be restored as original.

Sorry Jason, but I feel you are speaking from conjecture rather than observed fact. In this case we are talking about four cylinder Dodges. The rear carpeting arrangements I refer to are based on unrestored examples I have seen or owned over the last 40 years or so. Floors had to be covered with something and carpet was the logical choice. However, I understand that Henry was inclined to use sisal or coconut fibre matting in some of his open Model Ts on the basis of cost.

Perhaps you are confused about the welt to which I refer? This fits in the gap between the inner face of the cowl and the brace which supports the toe boards. The original welt in my 1925 roadster was made from a strip of leather sewn over 1/2 inch cotton rope. As the cowl is Budd-made all steel (attached to an Australian body) I have concluded that the welt was an original fiitting. Prior to restoration, my car had one owner and has been in our family since 1957. The only known trim work was re-covering of the top in the mid-1930s and the seat squab in 1958.

You seem to assume that the makers of mass produced cars of the the 1920s gave due consideration to the durability of their body work. I beg to disagree. An attractive product at point of sale was needed to move ever increasing production. Mechanical shortcomings and advancing technology meant an effective life of probably less than five years (has anything changed?). And who had heard of rustproofing? Mouldy carpet was probably a good thing to encourage a replacement sale.

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I hope I get this in the correct order.

Dave you are right modern cars have carpet in their convertibles....I dont think because of the range of time period that the tywo vehicles can be compared, yes good question what happens when you track snow into a new car with carpet???? You have rotted out floorboards.

G-man, thanks for the info, I guess I am incorrect and the facts you have given just about prove that so thanks again, I like to be proven wrong but I am sure if at all possible Mike and especially myself would like to see pictures. These are the sort of info that needs to be documented so that others can benefit.

Tony thanks as well, I like to think though and will continue to do so that their was some consideration back then unlike today and Double Gs removable carpet with the snaps ( which by the way is also how my closed car carpet is held into place ) does show that there was some consideration given.

John I cant possibly think where you might get the idea this thread was hijacked, I believe this is exactly the information that Mike had asked for in the begginning so this is how a topic develops and I am glad it went this way.

Edited by 1930 (see edit history)
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DoubleG, can't help you with replacement carpet for your '24 touring car. But, for a '15 DB touring car the part number for the floor carpet is L539 and for the toe carpet is L1932, costing 1.50 and 1.00 respectively, taken from December '15 parts book. It held up pretty good, because the '15 in my shed still has the original stuff in it. Other open cars may not have used carpet but early DB surely did.

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Not a highjack at all Gentlemen! Who could complain about such detailed information about unrestored vehicles? Double G, When you say "The seats, front and back, were covered in black leather and a different material around the base of the seats and door panels that looked like leather with a thin cloth backing." Are the seat bases different on a '24? Mine are all metal.

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Mike,

When I said the base of the seat, I meant the part that wraps around and forms the sides of the actual seat cushion and covers the seat springs. The ribbed panels that you rest your back and sit your rear on are leather. The sides are some sort of early vinyl. The metal box that is part of the body and the cushions sit on is painted. I'm pretty sure the '24 and '25 are very much the same. Sorry for the confusion. Your car is looking great by the way!

GG.

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Thanks GG, I see what you mean. One other question, is there supposed to be a sheet of plywood or something similar that covers the top of the front seat base? It seems like the springs would want to sag in the openings...

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DoubleG, can't help you with replacement carpet for your '24 touring car. But, for a '15 DB touring car the part number for the floor carpet is L539 and for the toe carpet is L1932, costing 1.50 and 1.00 respectively, taken from December '15 parts book. It held up pretty good, because the '15 in my shed still has the original stuff in it. Other open cars may not have used carpet but early DB surely did.

Its actually MikeC5 and better late than never Doug, great job :P

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Ray,

That's great! Is it restored or needing it? A nice original perhaps? Please post some pictures when you get a chance. Where abouts in CT are you? I'm in Waterford (just west of New London).

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Small a state as CT was I still had to look up Trumbull, had no idea where it was. Had a tough time finding it on the map I see now you are down by New Haven. If I ever decide to make the drive again I will have to let you know. Maybe we can spend a few minutes looking at your cars :)

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im in prospect ct. the car is in nice shape, needs a little work but still shows well. i got her from black horse garage in bridgeport. i bought my other car , 1902 ford , in new london 35 years ago..i still have it. the preious owner worked at milstone power plant

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  • 2 months later...

Here's a photo of the 1925 touring car rear compartment showing the rear seat cushion out, and the rusty steel inner base, from mice-- luckily, only surface damage, but there is no extra parts to support the seat cushion, whereas it sits in the steel recess supported by it's own perimeter seat spring edge. The heel part of rear floor has two riveted tabs able to turn them, to hold or release the rear floor board. Any trace of original matting, rubber or fabric is gone, I'm holding up a replacement ribbed floor mat put in years ago. There are many "punch tabs" in lower front seat metal frame, rear, that held some kind of a panel, long gone. It would have gone about 1/3rd up the back from rear floor. The second photo is the driver's side floor-to-cowl welting, I believe it to be original. The pass. side welting is gone.

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Pete, that doesn't look that bad. Mine was really rusted through and I ended up cutting the entire thing out and replacing with new (flat) metal. I then welded some 3/4 angle iron on the bottom side to increase stiffness. The front kick panel area, is there anything covering the cowl sheet metal or is it simply painted body color?

My car won't be ready Phil but I do plan to come on the 29th (?) and see everyone.

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