Can I get an opinion on a part I bought? I need a sanity check...

[lancemb]

OK, so I just bought an upper grille bar for a 57 Buick and I am wondering if I should be happy with the condition based on how it was described. I am going through the trouble of this post because I paid a tidy sum for the piece; if it was a $10 item I'd just chalk it up as a lesson learned and forget about it. The seller (well-known business) couldn't provide any pictures (I know - red flag) but I bought it anyway after asking in detail about the condition. I was nervous about the transaction because I know there is subjectivity on parts that are less than perfect, but based on the replies and the fact that it was a well-known business, I felt comfortable enough to buy it. However, after receiving it I'm not so sure, so before I get too upset I'd like some feedback from fellow car folks. Your opinions would be appreciated.

Below are excerpts from our Q&A session, and attached is a picture of the area I am unhappy with (on the leading edge - most visable portion - of the grille bar).

Seller: "it has very minimal surface pitting across the bottom and the top..." & "...it's an excellent candidate for rechroming if you want to put it on a show car because it has no severe pitting or rusting that would affect its ability to take a rechrome"

Me: "Do the light pits that you describe look like the tiny pinhead-sized or pen tip-sized kind that could be largely polished out (maybe greenish or grayish in color, but without actual "bubbles" in the chrome? That is what I am thinking based on your description, because if the chrome is actually bubbled at all it would require some surface work even with a rechrome."

Seller: "they are extremely small and you could probably polish out about 90+ percent of them. the leading edge of the bar is fine, it's just the areas around the edges along the length of it which would mostly be hidden by the overhang of the hood and the angle underneath."

Inspection of the piece revealed that there are actually quite a few bubbles on the leading edge of the bar, mostly on the passenger side, which cannot even partially be polished out; they are distinctly raised like braille and there are probably at least 50 of them in a large cluster.

Any thoughts?

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Not knowing what you paid for the part or actually seeing it, it's really hard to comment intelligently. I have bought at high dollar far worse pitted parts for my '56 Cadillac Eldorado than the small pits I see in the photo.

If your intent is to have the piece re-chrome plated, it will need to have the current plating removed and then an assessment of the true nature of the pits can be made. A good plater can likely plate with brass and then buff smooth before applying chrome. If any of the pits are really deep they should be drilled out and the hole filled by brazing with aluminum alloy brazing rod. If the plating shop hasn't that ability after the part has had the chrome removed take to a shop that repairs aluminum outboard propellers and they'll know just what to do.

If you bought the part thinking you could get by without re-chroming I'd have to say that was wishful thinking. Chrome plating on any nearly sixty year old piece is subject to heading South. GM chrome plating wasn't the best to start with and is subject to pealing off in sheets so to speak if you grab a lift it with a pair of pliers.

Jim

Edited December 20, 2010 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[Guest Silverghost]

I think the questions you have to ask yourself are~~~

Can I find a similar or better part for the same money I have already paid for this pitted part ?

How hard will it be to find a better part ?

Can I live with the pits and bubbles In this part ?

To strip, fill pits, and replate this part will be very costly indeed !

You should have factored-in any possible re-plating costs before buying this trim part that was not advertised as perfect NOS .

The platers have so much business today from hotrodd/streetrod & Antique folks that they are charging insane plating prices !

They use the EPA regulations as an excuse for these high prices~~~

I do not believe this is the REAL cause of sky-high plating prices today~~~~

It's just basic supply & demand at work here~~~

Few good platers & lots of folks in need of good plating work = High Plating Prices !

The quality plating shops have more work than thay can handle now !

If you want any quality plating done~~~

You must pay the price !

Edited December 20, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[lancemb]

Thanks for the feedback thus far; I know there are a lot of people on here who have bought and sold old Buick parts!

The big question I'm trying to answer is: Does the part in the picture match the description per the conversation I've included? In my opinion it does not, but I wanted to see what others thought.

I was hoping to get away without plating, and if I thought there was pitting like this on the main face of the part I would not have bought it. I bought a nicer one (based on the pitting I discovered this one has) on Ebay a year ago for about 20% less, but unfortunately it got destroyed in shipping! Otherwise I never would have bought this one. Also, I have an NOS 57 grille that has been stored in an unheated garage for decades and the chrome is still perfect. That said, I knew this piece wasn't perfect, but I just didn't know it was this bad.

So, I really don't think I can live with these pits, and I also can't afford to rechrome it after I spent so much on it. If I wanted to do that, I already have an excellent core for rechrome. It may or may not be a fair price for the piece. However, I wouldn't have bought it at all had I known it had these bubbles. I've had a lot of parts that were pulled from storage and had tiny corrosion dots like I described in my question above, and they looked nearly perfect after polishing; that is what I thought I'd find on this part and why I specifically asked the question.

So, I am just trying to do a "sanity check" on my impression of the part vs. the description I was given. If my expectations are too high based on the description in the opinion of most people, then I'll just have to suck it up and see if I can get my money back out of it. Opinions?

Edited December 20, 2010 by lancemb
add info (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Didn't the seller state plainly the part was not at all perfect?

Seller: "it has very minimal surface pitting across the bottom and the top..." & "...it's an excellent candidate for rechroming if you want to put it on a show car because it has no severe pitting or rusting that would affect its ability to take a rechrome"

Seller: "they are extremely small and you could probably polish out about 90+ percent of them. the leading edge of the bar is fine, it's just the areas around the edges along the length of it which would mostly be hidden by the overhang of the hood and the angle underneath."

What about "candidate for re-chroming" and implication it was just a "driver" level get by part did you not understand? What about the condition of the underside of the lip was not clear to you?

I hate to sound crass, but why are you asking us to evaluate your purchase after the fact? Did you get a good deal? We don't know because we don't know what you paid for it. One thing is for sure, no one is making that piece today and if it is serviceable for a "driver" it was probably a good deal.

[lancemb]

Didn't the seller state plainly the part was not at all perfect?

Seller: "it has very minimal surface pitting across the bottom and the top..." & "...it's an excellent candidate for rechroming if you want to put it on a show car because it has no severe pitting or rusting that would affect its ability to take a rechrome"

Seller: "they are extremely small and you could probably polish out about 90+ percent of them. the leading edge of the bar is fine, it's just the areas around the edges along the length of it which would mostly be hidden by the overhang of the hood and the angle underneath."

What about "candidate for re-chroming" and implication it was just a "driver" level get by part did you not understand? What about the condition of the underside of the lip was not clear to you?

I hate to sound crass, but why are you asking us to evaluate your purchase after the fact? Did you get a good deal? We don't know because we don't know what you paid for it. One thing is for sure, no one is making that piece today and if it is serviceable for a "driver" it was probably a good deal.

Jim,

I didn't create this post to rant or complain. Also, I can read and understand quite well, despite your implications. If you read my entire post carefully I stated my question clearly. I am not asking whether or not I got a good deal.

To reply to your questions and statements:

1) The reason I am asking to evaluate the purchase after the fact is because if I rightfully should be unhappy, then I'll pursue it with the seller further. This is a seller I've spent thousands of dollars with, so I don't want to make a snap judgment. I regret that this chafes you so much.

2) The statement "the leading edge of the bar is fine, it's just the areas around the edges along the length of it which would mostly be hidden by the overhang of the hood" does not seem accurate to me based on the fact that 99% of the bubbles are on the leading edge in plain sight.

3) Opinions of what is a driver level part is vary greatly, which is why I was very specific about the pitting. A perfectionist would never put anything on his or her car that was not concours quality, in which case anything that was not advertised as flawless would have to be assumed to need rechroming; this was not my expectation. Everybody has their own tolerance. So, yes it is an excellent candidate for rechroming. But it's also an excellent candidate for a driver depending on how nice you want your driver to be. Therefore, the implication that it was a "driver" part was not enough information in itself. Again, that is why I was so specific.

4) I never said there was ANY issue with the underside of the lip. It's the top side leading edge that is pitted as I stated earlier

5) I never expected the part to be perfect, and never said that I did

[scot]

Just my two cents worth.

The question really isn't what anyone else thinks about it. The true question is if you are satisfied. Which, it appears you are not. Why don't you just aske the seller if you can return it for a refund minus shipping?

You have spent much $$$ with them before, I would think that most companies would want to keep you happy. If they won't accept the part back then chalk it up to a learning experience and cover your basis more thouroughly in the future.

Like I said, just my two cents worth.

Best Regards,

Scot

[Guest Silverghost]

I think that this situation proves again that you should always get good quality photos sent via email before you decide to make any transaction on parts via long distance.

No photos~~~ No Deal !

You should have brought this issue up with the seller immediately after you received this part~~~

Still ~~~ See IF they will allow a full or partial refund now.

Based on the fact you say you have spent thousands $$$ with this seller before ~~~ They should be willig to make you happy now I would think ! ?

Edited December 20, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Whenever I buy something by discription only I ALWAYS figure it will be far far worse than I had hoped. I'm seldom disappointed. .................Bob

[michaelod]

I think there is in most cases an issue of marketing involved with the purchase of any car or part that is purchased for an old car. I have learned to accept that a considerable amount of BS will occur during this process. I have a growing number of parts that I have acquired during the restoration of my 1930 Buick that were never even designed to fit on the car although the seller claimed they were correct at the time. At this point I am usually grateful when I come across anything that I need which is correct and restorable. The simple fact is that as the years roll by, the number of available parts moves ever closer to zero and there is no getting around that unless you are restoring a very popular car such as a Model A Ford for which new replacement parts are still being manufactured. This is VERY expensive hobby pure and simple and at least in my case, part of the expense is a certain percentage of "mistakes" that for one reason or another have to be built into the total cost of the restoration.

Thanks,

[lancemb]

I think that this situation proves again that you should always get good quality photos sent via email before you decide to make any transaction on parts via long distance.

No photos~~~ No Deal !

You should have brought this issue up with the seller immediately after you received this part~~~

Still ~~~ See IF they will allow a full or partial refund now.

Based on the fact you say you have spent thousands $$$ with this seller before ~~~ They should be willig to make you happy now I would think ! ?

Thanks for the input - You're right about the No Photos = No Deal. That's usually my policy and this was my first exception, only because it is a well-known company I have dealt with many times. I did bring the issue up right away (sent email day after I got the part) but this was over weekend. I got a reply today and they will offer a refund but minus shipping. Unfortunately, by the time I eat the shipping (both ways by the time I ship it back), it is not worth it and I may as well just keep it as a spare or try to sell it on Ebay. I would have been happy with a partial rebate but they wouldn't do that and wouldn't pay for shipping, so I guess I'm S.O.L. I will NEVER stray from the "No Photos = No Deal" policy again - that much I will accept responsibility for.

The real shame in it all is I don't know if I want to order parts from this source any more; that's kinda what I am weighing with this feedback- i.e., how disappointed I should be. It's not like I am a habitual complainer - I've never had an issue like this before, ever. As a long-time Ebay seller, I have had 2 instances where there was something I missed upon inspection and I took responsibility for it and gave a discount each time to make up for it. The buyer and I walked away with a fair deal each time. I guess I sorta expected the same here, but I guess I'll just chalk this up as a learning experience.

[38Buick 80C]

Lance,

In the instances where I purchased a part that was later found to be incorrect for my car or not to my standards I have been pleasantly surprised in some cases to get my money back out of it putting a very clear explanation on eBay and a low starting bid with no reserve. I try and be clearer than the original seller or clearly state that I'm not sure what it fits and I have had no complaints from buyers.

In your case I personally think you have some right to be upset, but it is a buyer beware market and we have all "been there, done that" at one point or another.

In the end I suggest chalking it up as a sunk cost and either hold on to it if it is something you want or dispose of it and get what you can for it. Despite its imperfections someone else will want it and feel like they got a good deal and maybe if your lucky you may be pleasantly surprised with what they are willing to pay and then everyone is happy.

Hope that helps some. Like I said we've all been there at one point or another.

[JZRIV]

This is a tough one.

I don't see anything stated that makes me think the seller was intentionally trying to mislead you. He stated clearly it was a candidate for rechroming and that indicated to me the part would have some issues.

I felt the key comments from each of you was when you said you were hoping to get away without replating in post #4, and the seller said it was an excellent candidate for replating for a show car in post #1. I think despite the bubbles its very nice driver quality.

I've seen plenty of these examples and its obvious when there is intentional misleading information be given. I'm not seeing it here. Yes a difference in perception of quality for sure, but not blatent fraud.

I don't think it is a reasonable expectation to expect a seller who is not a plating expert to give an accurate assesment of what can and can't be polished out. Despite your best efforts with well worded questions it still comes down to his ability to access the defects.

If shipping costs nearly equal the price paid then you can't have too much tied up in it....but that is open to difference in perception!

I hope the seller is willing to work with you.

Good Luck

Edited December 21, 2010 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[Guest my3buicks]

As the old saying goes "one mans treasure is another mans trash" - that said, some of us have higher expectations than others. His honest description was just that, his description, had you owned the part you would maybe have described it differently, all in perception.

[Thriller]

I would take this as a learning experience and would probably come to the conclusion of no photos, no deal. This is particularly important with bright work. There is some difference of opinion, but keep in mind that the seller did suggest 90% would buff out, implying that the seller knows something about bright work! That suggests there may be something toward misleading going on. If it were me, I would suggest to them that I am disappointed in the transaction and that it causes me to question whether to deal with them in the future despite the considerable sums spent in the past.

This does speak to a deeper issue that eBay has effectively caused (and Craigslist has perpetuated). Some folks make money selling on these sites. I don't begrudge anyone making money, but there are too many unscrupulous people out there, and they seem to gravitate toward scam. For an example, see 1952 Buick Straight 8 Runs Good. ALL ORIGINAL. Clear Title. and compare the photo with one on my car's page at 1952 Buick Roadmaster Four Door Riviera Sedan.

If there is any question of description of a part, particularly when reasonably large sums of money are involved, photos are a necessity. We've gotten to where digital cameras are very inexpensive and easy to use. There's no excuse for a business making money selling used parts not to have one and the ability to use it.

[rivgs]

Derek, It looks like Suzanne either has a twin in North Carolinia with the same kind of car or someone is not being truthful in their ad:eek:. Did you happen to send a nasty note to the NC scam artist?

[Thriller]

Not as yet...I reported it to Craigslist and e-mailed our VP to see if he had time to "see" the car, since he's in the general vicinity.

Truth in advertising? Who'da thunk?

[stealthbob]

I think this is a case of maybe the seller hyped it while the buyer over hoped it....

lets face it...finding these parts in this condition is rare, maybe you just wanted it to be the way you hoped so bad and assumed it would be as good or better than he said?

It clearly says to me "Driver" condition...meaning to me it has blemishes including some pits. It should take a a nice plate for a "Show Car" with minimal work, which again is what I took from the seller.

As said already, it is really subjective when describing this stuff. To me it looks great....I would put that on my car until I had the money to re-plate it, but then again I don't know what you paid for it.

[lrlforfun]

OK Buick People: With 20 parts cars, now you know why I don't sell parts. Lance, I too think you had unreasonable hidden expectations. It sounds like the seller did his best to represent the part the best he could. I've made errors in judgment that tower over this Get over it. Mitch

[Thriller]

Now Mitch, don't you think that is a bit harsh considering we don't know how much money changed hands?

Lance - I think that may be a sticking point. I get the impression that you feel you overpaid for what you got, and feel a bit stung considering it is someone you have done business with before. I'm not suggesting that full disclosure is necessary, but if you paid considerably more than what driver quality or needing replating pieces are going for, then you probably have a legitimate beef. Good luck in wrestling with this one.

[Rawja]

Condition vs. description looks to be within the normal "margin of error" to me. Return it if you're unhappy.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Rawja (see edit history)

[38Buick 80C]

Not as yet...I reported it to Craigslist and e-mailed our VP to see if he had time to "see" the car, since he's in the general vicinity.

Truth in advertising? Who'da thunk?

Derek,

I didn't have anything from you so I checked my spam box and there was your email. So there even my email provider thinks its a scam, do I still have to call now?

[lancemb]

Thanks for the sanity check here - in conclusion, it's boils down to my error for buying without photos, and regardless of what happened I am accountable for that. If nothing else perhaps this post will serve as a reminder for buyers to beware!

One point that I left out (sorry) that may help explain my expectations is that the piece is NOS(I know this much is true too because the holes in back are still untapped from stud insertion necessary for installation) and was billed as just having some shelf wear - therefore I don't think it was unreasonable to not expect pitting on the leading edge, especially when the seller specifically said that there was no pitting on the leading edge! I have other pot metal NOS 57 pieces that are still corrosion-free.

I think I may put it on Ebay like Brian suggested at some point with a reserve; if I can't get most of my money back I'll just keep it as a spare probably. Or, maybe I'll look at it again and decide I have to live with it. Unfortunately, the $ only matters because if I had paid a little less, I feel I'd have a greater chance of getting my money back on Ebay. But the shipping was so expensive with insurance that I feel it's unlikely I'll get my money back, but who knows - I mean it IS a very nice driver piece, just not nice enough for what I was looking for. I am only holding the seller to descriptive standards that I hold myself to, no more. Also, I wouldn't necessarily hold everybody to these standards, but in the case of a business selling old parts I would think that a higher standard of professionalism and judgment should be expected.

All that said, I am not going to let this ruin my Christmas - this is not a big deal in grand scheme of things - just wanted some more opinions, so thanks!

[Pete Phillips]

So, what did you pay for the )@(%*@$) thing? I would say anything under $150 and you did fine. For an upper grille bar under $150, one should expect to have to get it replated.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[stealthbob]

So, what did you pay for the )@(%*@$) thing? I would say anything under $150 and you did fine. For an upper grille bar under $150, one should expect to have to get it replated.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

You saying that the upper bumper I'm getting needs a re-plate then? :mad:

Truth be told, I would not expect pitting like that from an NOS.....good lesson/reminder for all>>>>Never buy without good pictures!

[Guest BJM]

So, what did you pay for the )@(%*@$) thing? I would say anything under $150 and you did fine. For an upper grille bar under $150, one should expect to have to get it replated.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

I think we would all like to know what was paid. That piece looks nice to me. But it did not meet your expectations.

I bought a 71-73 full size dashpad off ebay recently sold as "no cracks". Obviously I saw photos of the pad. It showed up, poorly boxed and on my front porch in the cold with several "spider cracks" -probably caused by poor tossed around transport and poor packaging and cold temps. I paid, including shipping - $145. That hurts, probably a total loss.

I say polish that NOS piece up and put it on, then get a replateble piece for later. To me, it looks decent, driver quality even with the pimples.

I knew chrome was expensive to redo, but had no idea the quality of the base piece mattered much.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Thanks for the sanity check here - in conclusion, it's boils down to my error for buying without photos, and regardless of what happened I am accountable for that. If nothing else perhaps this post will serve as a reminder for buyers to beware!

One point that I left out (sorry) that may help explain my expectations is that the piece is NOS(I know this much is true too because the holes in back are still untapped from stud insertion necessary for installation) and was billed as just having some shelf wear - therefore I don't think it was unreasonable to not expect pitting on the leading edge, especially when the seller specifically said that there was no pitting on the leading edge! I have other pot metal NOS 57 pieces that are still corrosion-free.

I think I may put it on Ebay like Brian suggested at some point with a reserve; if I can't get most of my money back I'll just keep it as a spare probably. Or, maybe I'll look at it again and decide I have to live with it. Unfortunately, the $ only matters because if I had paid a little less, I feel I'd have a greater chance of getting my money back on Ebay. But the shipping was so expensive with insurance that I feel it's unlikely I'll get my money back, but who knows - I mean it IS a very nice driver piece, just not nice enough for what I was looking for. I am only holding the seller to descriptive standards that I hold myself to, no more. Also, I wouldn't necessarily hold everybody to these standards, but in the case of a business selling old parts I would think that a higher standard of professionalism and judgment should be expected.

All that said, I am not going to let this ruin my Christmas - this is not a big deal in grand scheme of things - just wanted some more opinions, so thanks!

Lance I know you feel like I jumped all over your case right square out of the box about the transaction. Somewhat sorry about that; but on the other hand no one should be presumptuous because a seller says something is NOS it is perfect.

For everyone and anyone reading this the statement can be particularly true with chrome plated pot metal having been stored in the wrong environment, or originally poorly plated, even if in the original packaging. In truth buffing will not rid a piece of pitting and the progression of the equivalent of rust, it only temporarily gets rid of the bubbles and white oxidation. Wishful thinking so to speak! Candidly no one should pay any great amount for any chrome plated pot metal piece exhibiting pitting in progress unless the part is scarce as hen's teeth in any condition.

Caveat Emptor? You bet. We've all seen parts online and at swap meets in original boxes correct for the part inside, but the part had obviously been pulled for one reason or another and found its way into the box the replacement likely came. We've all done been guilty of doing that at one time or another, it's even done at dealerships and somehow occasionally finds it's way back into stock. So many online sellers, and even guys at swap meets, have parts to sell they really know nothing about and believe what is on the box. A box that probably came from a garage sale somewhere, a box of obsolete parts someone back when picked up from a dealer liquidating them, or some level of government's monthly auction of crap they no longer have a use for and hope someone will bid on it. And how often have we all seen pictures in ebay auctions of parts with a box having a part number that couldn't possibly be the part?

And surprise, surprise, a great many people selling on ebay, craig's list, and Amazon are in business for profit. First clue on ebay is a large number of transactions and explicit terms and conditions expressed in the listing. Many of the old time catalog restoration parts sellers have listings on ebay and Amazon. For the most part none of the online auctions or other places to sell things are the equivalent of a Saturday morning garage sale or some sort of good old boy swap meet of times past.

Not only is Caveat Emptor a good policy but a little common sense is also a good idea as well.

Happy Holidays to all. Be safe and don't drive where there are bad road and weather conditions. Better to stay home than to never go home again!

Jim

Edited December 21, 2010 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

Lance I would have to say that the blame goes a bit both ways here. You did ask if there was any bubbling on the chrome before you purchased. The seller never answered that question specifically.Kind of seemed like he danced around that question. Shame on him. You bought it anyway even though he never answered your specific question . Shame on you.

Just the way I see it , hope you get it worked out to your satisfaction

[serb]

So Bob, do you need more pictures? I still need to answer your email, I did not forget. I have had some medical issues the last couple of weks that wil drag on for another two weeks or so.

I'm going to tell Lamar, .....

[stealthbob]

So Bob, do you need more pictures? I still need to answer your email, I did not forget. I have had some medical issues the last couple of weks that wil drag on for another two weeks or so.

I'm going to tell Lamar, .....

No problem....this can wait until the new year!

Take care of your self....

[lancemb]

Lance I would have to say that the blame goes a bit both ways here. You did ask if there was any bubbling on the chrome before you purchased. The seller never answered that question specifically.Kind of seemed like he danced around that question. Shame on him. You bought it anyway even though he never answered your specific question . Shame on you.

Just the way I see it , hope you get it worked out to your satisfaction

Thanks for the input Dan. From my POV however, the seller answered my question pretty clearly. The statement "the leading edge of the bar is fine, it's just the areas around the edges along the length of it which would mostly be hidden by the overhang of the hood " was a direct response to a question asking about the pitting. In fact, the leading edge is not fine.

As far as the price, I'll give in - I was trying to not focus on the price or whether I got a good or bad deal, but a lot of people asked, so I'll tell you I paid $382 with shipping. I bought one rechromed with very minor shelf wear a year ago for under $300 shipped. Unfortunately it got cracked in transit due to poor packaging, otherwise I wouldn't be in this mess.

Now, I don't think it's worth that money, but someone else may. I can tell you, I sure as heck wouldn't have bought it if I knew that it had so many pimples in plain sight!

[Bhigdog]

Personally I'm not at all sure what you hope to gain by asking for our opinions. If 20 folks respond you're going to get 20 meaningless OPINIONS that do nothing to solve your problem. In truth you don't have a problem. You can keep the part or send it back. Your choice.

If you're agonizing about paying for the shipping, just put it in perspective. If you buy a drink and dinner for two at a nice restaurant you will shell out more than the shippng cost, and the next morning you know what you will have for your money. In my experiance fully 10% of the cost of a restoration is wasted on unsuitable parts, repro rework, screw ups, do overs, left over parts, paint, supplies etc etc etc.

You want an opinion, I'll give you the best one yet. Keep it or send it back and move on.............Bob

[NTX5467]

A little late, but . . .

As good as the factory chrome work might have been, it was NOT show quality by any means. In so many cases, "show quality" or even a good rechrome is "too good". One key point is that the rechorme will not have the factory polish swirl marks in it, even if it's a repro part . . . by observation. Be that as it may . . .

As atmospheric oxidation takes place, even in a "controlled atmosphere" of a cardboard parts box, it can be slower than if the item was installed on a vehicle, but it will still happen. That box is not hermetically sealed by any means, so any deterioration which might otherwise occur will still happen, but probably at a slower rate.

Knowing these things . . . the best orientation to take when purchasing chrome items which have not been physically seen, is to plan on it needing to be rechromed to be perfect. Rechromed by a plater that will not excessively build-up the underlying metals in the process. I've seen examples where rechromes have pretty much destroyed any detail which a chrome part originally had in it, due to build thickness of the base metals. A good job? Yes. A show quality item? Yes and No. Did the rechromed part add to the value of the vehicle? Not really.

I know that buying a hallowed NOS part, especially at an appropriate price for the NOS status, can often result in spending more than desired as the hope is that the NOS part will be "production perfect" and completely useable "as is". Still, though, you're dealing with a part that has spent its decades "ageing" at a reduced rate than if it'd been on a vehicle. This makes those untapped attachment holes worth a lot of money! Putting "marks" in those holes would be very expensive as to the resale value of the part, not unlike driving a new car off the lot. If you're going to sell it, it'd be better to sell it "uninstalled" to maintain its "virgin status"--the same status that would demand the higher price over a normally-used similar part.

Therefore, I'd recommend selling it "as is" or send it back to the seller, just saying that it didn't meet your desired orientations--no more, no less. NO argument about the possibly varying orientations over described condition vs. actual condition. At this time, that's a moot point. Of course, if you return it, be sure to package it very well AND purchase insurance for the amount you paid for it--otherwise, things might happen "en route" or whatever which might result in an unuseable part being received by the orig seller.

Sellling it yourself might be the best way out, all things considered. This way, you have complete control over the situation rather than having possible complications due to the return shipping situation. After all, it might not be completely perfect, but it should still appreciate in value with age . . . slight bubbles and all.

I know that lots of new and used parts change owners via eBay and such every day, but to me there are certain parts that it's best to purchase "in person", even with accurate "large file, high m-pixel" pictures from the seller.

Also, Bhigdog's orientation of "lower expectations" is a good one to have, with all due respect. I suspect that "appropriate pricing" for those lowered expectations is also in that mix.

Just some thoughts . . .

Happy Holidays!

NTX5467

[lancemb]

Personally I'm not at all sure what you hope to gain by asking for our opinions. If 20 folks respond you're going to get 20 meaningless OPINIONS that do nothing to solve your problem. In truth you don't have a problem. You can keep the part or send it back. Your choice.

If you're agonizing about paying for the shipping, just put it in perspective. If you buy a drink and dinner for two at a nice restaurant you will shell out more than the shippng cost, and the next morning you know what you will have for your money. In my experiance fully 10% of the cost of a restoration is wasted on unsuitable parts, repro rework, screw ups, do overs, left over parts, paint, supplies etc etc etc.

You want an opinion, I'll give you the best one yet. Keep it or send it back and move on.............Bob

Hi Bob, I was ready to move on this morning after I got some reasonable feedback. I keep posting because the thread keeps going, and in a few cases such as this one, I feel compelled to clarify one or more assumptions that are not accurate for those who don't read the entire thread.

The decision is not so simple. To put another way what I stated previously in this thread, what I hope to get out of this is to decide whether or not my disappointment is warranted. In other words, would a reasonable person have interpreted things differently than I have? I actually value others' opinions and I believe that when "reasonable" people respond, it gives me insight to help me decide whether to:

1) Do nothing and accept that the part does not meet my expectations for whatever reason.

OR

2) Try harder to convince the seller to give me a refund with shipping or a partial refund since it's not as described.

And also:

1) Never buy from this seller again

OR

2) Conclude that there was no intentional misleading and continue to buy from this seller, but only new items or items clearly described as perfect.

Why is this so important? Because this is a place that I have bought many many items from and I hope to have 40 more years (give or take) of fixing old cars, and hate to burn bridges with a snap decision, where there may possibly be a certain degree of ambiguity. However, I try to be a man of integrity and principle and will not stand for being taken advantage of, on any level, if that is what occurred. In my opinion, a small reimbursement from the seller would likely be a pretty wise business move to avoid losing a likely large stream of future purchases.

As far as the shipping, if the shipping were cheap as you've assumed, I would agree whole-heartedly with you. However, in this case to ship it back for a refund with no compensation for shipping I stand to lose about $120!!! I don't know how much money you have, but that's a lot of $$ to me.

Think of it this way - I am asking help from a "jury" so I don't wrongfully convict the seller and ruin a relationship for nothing. If it was a first and probably last time purchase anyway, it wouldn't matter. So in my opinion, getting some feedback DOES do something to help solve my problem.

[Bhigdog]

There's still only two possible answers to your situation. Keep it or send it back. 30 or 40 opinions won't change that nor will it make you satisfied or not satisfied with the part. Make your decision and move on. You will be a bit wiser and better off.............Bob

[stealthbob]

hehehe....I think he has moved along, its we who are continuing to perpetuate this deceased equine violence.

Pie anyone?

[Thriller]

The horses' bones aren't beaten to dust yet....

Not knowing what the market value is like for this piece, I would think selling it at some point might be best in terms of trying to recoup monies spent. If nothing else, you can put a Buy it Now on that reflects what you are willing to eat as a loss. If there are no takers, that is life.

Good luck.

[Bhigdog]

hehehe....I think he has moved along, its we who are continuing to perpetuate this deceased equine violence.

Pie anyone?

Good point..........Bob

[lrlforfun]

OK Buick People: We sure know how to b*%^$ s^&$%. Me included! Mitch

[NTX5467]

Lance, it's admirable that you're not wanting to unnecessarily alienate the seller in this case, BUT even long-time-acquainted business people will have some sort of disagreement over the years. You might feel that you need to advise him of his poor descriptions of the part, which led you to have great expectations for the part. Reality is that you don't ever have to mention it to him/her again . . . period! If you send it back, it can possibly do more harm to the relationship as THEN you'd have the conversation about the explanation vs. actual part condition. Some conversations are best not being had.

Description of parts as "perfect"? Isn't something of that nature what started this whole situation? It might be better to talk of "OEM New Condition" as that's a definite "spec" to look for and one that most would have better experience with knowing what it is. "New Old Stock", in many cases, just drive up the prices.

Decision time is nearing . . .

Happy Holidays!

NTX5467