Dodge to bite the dust

[boblichty]

Yesterday, Fiat (owners of Chrysler) annouced that they will be dropping Dodge. So now Dodge joins, Plymouth, Oldsmobile, soon Pontiac as long lost great American brand icons.

Fiat claims there new line of products will "honor Dodge's hi-performance and rugged truck image". Cant you just see the new Fiat Hemi Charger?

No one is going to miss Saturn too much, but what car is next...Mercury? Buick? GMC trucks?

I guess the Italians have no clue what an icon Dodge is. I doubt I'll be buying a new Fiatized Chrysler anyway, they closed the best dealership within 30 miles of here. Our town has lost two Chevy dealerships, soon a Pontiac dealership, Chrysler, Olds, and next year Dodge. This is actually true the only auto dealer left in our town of 80,000 people is a very good Ford/Mercury/Lincoln dealership.

[Jay Wolf]

It look like that they are dropping dodge totally from the European market and dropping several models from the US Market in favor of Fiat built cars.

but Dodge in US will still be here for at least a while.

[Dave@Moon]

Here's a link to a well-detailed story about what's going to be announced next Wednesday: Michigan Technology News, the online source for Michigan's technology business

Basically if it's front wheel drive or four wheel drive and not a Dodge truck or Jeep SUV, it has 2 years left to live (except for Chrysler T&C that still lives, the Caravan is apparently doomed). In all that time the newest vehicle they'll be jettisoning will be the Caliber/Patriot, which will be a 6 year old design in 2012.

It seems a very reasonable course of action to me. Hopefully Chrysler will make it 2012 so it can work. At an 8% market share in this market, that's not going to happen however.

Edited October 28, 2009 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

[Guest Bluesky636]

Sure am glad I'm a true-blue oval Ford guy.

[boblichty]

Dave your article seems a lot more reasonable. Seems like idiocy to drop Dodge totally. The article I found was on MSN yesterday and I doubt it was written by a car guy. Did you read in you article they "don't" intend to market the neat little Fiat 500 as a Fiat but just the 500. The only fun car Fiat makes, gets great reviews overseas and they are not going to use their own name on it. I guess I will never have a future in marketing at an Italian automaker.

[Peter Gariepy]

Recently bought a new Ford Focus. Feel better about my decision every day.

[john2dameron]

After GM manage decided to axe Oldsmobile, the oldest surviving brand in the U.S., choosing instead to keep Pontiac (and you see where that went) I am not surprised at ANYTHING the auto industry does. I guess that proves that an education only educates you; it does not make raise your intelligence level.

[Talarico8447]

Years ago people should of took the term "Buy American' a little more seriously. Now look at our Automobile history slowly going down the drain. Some how the general public was tricked into thinking foreign cars were better.

[Guest bkazmer]

We're supposed to be car guys, right? The 500 is named after a much earlier model, but that doesn't have much history here, especially to younger buyers. I suppose they could go with the "cinquecento" script to see how badly the name gets butcherd (or Topolino with a cute litle mouse - no). I have not heard if the Abarth version (another name with a good history little known in the US) will make it here - the turbo is a pocket rocket.

Alfa Romeo is due in 2012, and a FIAT/Lancia/Alfa platform is supposed to be the basis for a new middle sized Chrysler about then.

I think Fiat is introducing some car design and engine technology (especially diesel) that Chrysler can use. It's wise to leave Dodge as a truck brand, and maybe on the LX platform is there is a successor vehicle.

[keiser31]

Years ago people should of took the term "Buy American' a little more seriously. Now look at our Automobile history slowly going down the drain. Some how the general public was tricked into thinking foreign cars were better.

I don't know about being tricked into thinking foreign cars are better...maybe just being tricked into thinking that we should import them from the beginning (I know, we export lots, too). That was the beginning of the end as far as my own opinion goes. There will never be a point where Dodge bites the dust for me, personally because I never plan on buying any new car ever and as long as I have my two '31s, I will be all Dodge all the time, anyway. I do feel sad about Dodge going away since my life and my father's life revolved around the Chrysler Corporation for so many years. talarico8447...I am with you all the way about the buy American part.

Edited October 28, 2009 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Guest DagoRed]

FIAT = Fix It Again Tony

[1937hd45]

Yesterday, Fiat (owners of Chrysler) annouced that they will be dropping Dodge. So now Dodge joins, Plymouth, Oldsmobile, soon Pontiac as long lost great American brand icons.

THANKS to the guy who never ran a lemonaid stand in his life, you can nail another failure to his list. :mad: Thanks a lot BHO!:mad:

[Guest Skyking]

Ford rises, Chrysler falters in key quality survey - Projo Cars Blog

This was in todays paper.............This organization is one of the reasons the American car companies are in trouble. How in the world can they put Chrysler at the bottom!!:mad: 1 car in the top 10 is American........I've owned and my families owned many Chrysler products. In my opinion, they got a raw deal.............

[rhb1999]

I think, I share everyone feelings about this. I could have gotten into a fight with a middle aged man at a local flea market, when he said he was so proud of his foreign car, and that "ALL AMERICAN CARS ARE JUNK!" I overheard a woman say that "AMERICAN CARS ARE BAD, AND ASIAN CARS ARE BEST". Has brand loyalty to American cars gotten diminished this bad among the general public? But on the hand, you can't tell me that foreign cars are all that perfect.

Edited October 28, 2009 by rhb1999 (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

Ford rises, Chrysler falters in key quality survey - Projo Cars Blog

This was in todays paper.............This organization is one of the reasons the American car companies are in trouble. How in the world can they put Chrysler at the bottom!!:mad: 1 car in the top 10 is American........I've owned and my families owned many Chrysler products. In my opinion, they got a raw deal.............

The best showing American cars have had in a reliability survey in 40 years, and there's room for complaint?:confused:

Chrysler's at the bottom because they make the least reliable cars sold here. If you want to look behind the fence on the grassy knoll for more, be prepared for disappointment.

Here are 2 better (more detailed) analyses of the Consumer Reports new results. Suffice to say it's a good time to buy a Ford!:cool:

Ford moves up in Consumer Reports reliability rankings -- latimes.com

Best Cars Are Toyota, Honda, Ford, Says Consumer Reports - TIME

[Dave@Moon]

THANKS to the guy who never ran a lemonaid stand in his life, you can nail another failure to his list. :mad: Thanks a lot BHO!:mad:

If I made a comment like this it wouldn't last 5 minutes on this forum.

Any dispassionate reading of the history of this industry would put President Obama's involvement about 13,516 on the list of things wrong, and that's if Glenn Beck made the list.

Make no mistake, this is now an arch conservative forum.

[Dave@Moon]

FIAT = Fix It Again Tony

Just how long does anyone think that Fiat will use it's name around here?

It will be interesting to see how the 500 will be marketed. It might be like the Metropolitan or Colt, only not as an imported car.

[Guest Skyking]

Chrysler's at the bottom because they make the least reliable cars sold here.

And who's the judge, C/R? Dave, we've been over this too many times. It's a biased organization, period!

Too bad the public believes this bull crap! They created the monster.

Oh!, and by the way, didn't you just buy your son a Dodge?????????

Edited October 28, 2009 by Skyking
added a line (see edit history)

[Guest Skyking]

But on the hand, you can't tell me that foreign cars are all that perfect.

Toyota now is having big problems with recalls and safety issues throughout their industry............to answer your question, no, none of them are perfect.

[Steve Braverman]

Make no mistake, this is now an arch conservative forum.

I'm a Liberal and I drive a Dodge

[Guest Skyking]

Make no mistake, this is now an arch conservative forum.

That may not be a bad thing.

[boblichty]

In 2005 I bought a new Ford F-350 Super Duty dualie for trailer pulling. The Navistar engine was so bad, Ford replaced it at 19,000 miles. That year Ford replaced over 5500 similar engines according to Automotive News. I ran it until one day past the warrenty ran out at 100,000 miles and bought a Dodge dualie with the Cummins diesel and can't imagine ever going back to Ford, except one thing. Now in Chrysler's wisdom, the nearest Dodger dealer is about 30 miles away. And we only have a Ford dealer left in town. I guess i will nurse the Dodge along as long as I can, and look forward to the new Fiat Ram 3500 HD diesel. LOL.

[earl e rizer]

I bought a 77 Firebird in Detroit last summer and drove it home to Ontario, Canada on the July 4th long weekend going north to Pt Huron Mich. to Sarnia Canada. The one thing that really struck my friend (who was following me in my 06 Dodge Charger) and me in the Firebird was total lack of American cars on the road. There was very heavy traffic, nearly almost all the plates were Michigan and most of the cars were Japanese and German. The ratio changes quite a bit when you cross over into Canada. Back in favour of American brands. Why? One of the reasons is they are cheaper to buy here.

[Dave@Moon]

One of the reasons is they are cheaper to buy here.

They're cheaper to buy here, too.

[Dave@Moon]

That may not be a bad thing.

Maybe not, but pretending politics isn't allowed is.

Fair and balanced, you decide.

[Dave@Moon]

And who's the judge, C/R?

Nope. It's a statistic. Just dry numbers is all. Deal with it.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Dave@Moon
forgotten punctuation (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

I'm a Liberal and I drive a Dodge

I drive a British Leyland product. I think I win!

[Guest Richard D]

I am now 54 years old, my daily driver is a 20 year old Buick, fun car is a 38 year old Buick convertible. I will only by american nameplate cars that are built in North America, even if that means they are used. The Mustang and Camaro are looking better everytime I see a headline like this. I hope FiatChrysler finds a way to keep the Charger and Challenger around. When I was younger I was a muscle car guy, those feelings are coming back.

[Rawja]

According to the article Dave linked to the Challenger and Charger are here to stay. The Caliber, Nitro and Avenger are being jettisoned. I was extremely surprised that they plan to kill the Caravan, but as for the aforementioned three deletions from the line-up it's not like they're selling anyway, so good riddance to apparently bad rubbish.

What's with all you free-marketeers bemoaning the culling of the weak from the marketplace? Isn't that precisely the function of capitalism that everyone champions? Brainwashing and conspiracy theories aside ('cause they're laughable) a lot of people simply prefer the products that the furrin makers provide. I personally only buy domestics but if you prefer a foreign make, have at it and good luck to you.

"....reality has a well known liberal bias." Dr. Steven T. Colbert DFA :cool:

Edited October 29, 2009 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Dynaflash8]

The Buick LeSabre and Park Avenue cars I've ownd with the 3.8 V6 have been the best cars our family has ever owned. They are bullet proof for 200,000 miles. That's why GM scuttled these cars for the current junk. GM realized they were too good and lasted too long. I'm afraid GM deserves what they're getting, but I sure wish they had changed leadership rather than their cars before all of this happened.

[Dandy Dave]

I guess that proves that an education only educates you; it does not make raise your intelligence level.

And that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Some of the smartest people I know never went on to a "High Education"

Will my old Dodge now become an orphan? Dandy Dave!

[Guest Dean_H.]

Dodge won't go away, the government bailout and 'cash for clunkers' saved it!

[Guest Skyking]

Dodge won't go away, the government bailout and 'cash for clunkers' saved it!

The cash for clunkers helped Toyota more than it helped Dodge. Some government we have, huh!:mad:

[Guest Skyking]

Nope. It's a statistic. Just dry numbers is all. Deal with it.

Yea, OK Dave.............

[Dave@Moon]

For Fiat's plans to work Chrysler has to survive the next 2 years with essentially the exact same product mix it has now. With it's market share off 50% from a year ago, and the market itself off by almost the same amount, that may be a very long bet.

It's a bet many buyers aren't willing to make, especially in a used Chrysler. See: Cars That Lose Value The Fastest- Yahoo! Autos Article Page , this list from today's Forbes Magazine (More liberal hogwash no doubt!) Four out of 10 vehicles on this list are different Mopars, including a Dodge Ram truck (5 if you count the Mitsubishi Raider, a Dodge Dakota clone). This is another list you don't want to see your products on when you're trying to sell them.

I hope some of Fiat's plans can be accelerated in time to save what is now their American branch.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Dave@Moon
added Mitsubishi comment (see edit history)

[Guest Skyking]

Yea, more hog-wash from C/R.................

[Dave@Moon]

Yea, more hog-wash from C/R.................

Actually they got all their data for this analysis from Kelley Blue Book, but who's counting.

[MCHinson]

Dave,

I am not a Dodge fan. I actually missed the first snide comment about the current administration until your comment made me go back and re-read it. While I have the photo to prove that I have personally shaken the hand of our current U.S. President, I also am not a fan of everything that our government has done lately.

I don't think that we should be disrespectful of our government. I prefer to criticize respectfully when I have a difference of opinion with our elected leaders, of any party. In spite of what some commentators may say, that is how I think that most conservatives view the way our government and society is supposed to work.

I am not trying to start an argument, but Consumer Reports is just another publication. All publications have an agenda. For many years I subscribed. I eventually learned that, while informative, they are not always quite 100% correct/unbiased/reliable... take your own pick of term to explain it....

Call me crazy, or old fashioned, but my experience with foreign cars years ago led me to make the decision to buy American cars exclusively. I still feel that way. I only buy vehicles that are assembled in North America, preferably in the US.

[Dave@Moon]

For many years I subscribed. I eventually learned that, while informative, they are not always quite 100% correct/unbiased/reliable... take your own pick of term to explain it....

Statistics are just that, a numerical measure. They're not a qualitative opinion. To say CR's survey is biased is to say that either the 1.5 million respondents or the editors are liars. It's been over 50 years now. If these guys were fudging the data, or if the subscribers (like you & I) who send in the data were fudging it, don't you think it would've come out by now?

More to the point, I find it absurd in the extreme to call a survey biased against American cars when the single best performer in the survey (among conventional cars*) was an American car!:cool:

If a team loses a lot, maybe they just suck. Rooting for them by booing the umpire doesn't change that.

(*The 2 best cars in reliability were both hybrid cars. The 4 cyl. Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan beat every other car and truck.)

[MCHinson]

Like I said earlier....."I am not trying to start an argument, but Consumer Reports is just another publication."

I have not read their evaluation of cars and don't care to do so. I am not commenting on their results of any car testing, so I am not disagreeing with their results, just saying that their evaluation may or may not be right. Gather your research from all available resources and come to your own conclusion.

Any organization that "tests" or "evaluates" has the opportunity to get it wrong. Sometimes their scientific measurement runs contrary to my observation.

An example....

I used to work in an electronics shop. Consumer Resports once evaluated CB Radios. The difference that they came up with on different "Brands" of CB radios was hard to understand when the facts were that some of the different radios were actually assembled in the same plant, on the same assembly line, were actually exactly the same radio internally, but had different brand faceplates that were put on at the final assembly point, differing only in which brand the radios were to be sold under. The disparity in their evaluation of those internally identical items led my boss and me to change our opinion of their "Independent evaluation".