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Dodge to bite the dust


boblichty

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The disparity in their evaluation of those internally identical items led my boss and me to change our opinion of their "Independent evaluation".

Or the supplier was one of very inconsistent quality.

A survey measures the incidence of occurrence of various flaws within certain categories. It's not an individual evaluation, like the cb and other product tests have to be. If you took a survey of those cb owners, you'd find a percentage of the owners had experienced the same inconsistencies. It's no different with cars.

My wife's best friend bought an Accord in the 1990s. It was a nightmare, with major transmission and electrical trouble. Her first 2 Accords before that, and 1 afterward, were the picture of perfection. She just was unlucky. At roughly the same time we had an '87 Mazda 323 wagon that was perfect in every respect. When it was time to replace it I found another nearly identical car (even in color) with 13K miles on it. It was nothing but trouble. This time we were the unlucky ones. That Mazda wagon was replaced by a Dodge Spirit (again an extremely low mileage 6 year old car) that had one of the first weeks' production of the troublesome A-604 transmission. That car was perfect through 4 years & 99K miles.

I'm sure there are stories of people running their Dodge Avenger 200K miles+ without changing so much as a light bulb. One of my best friends (the guy looking for a straight 8 Pontiac in another thread) has an '06 Nitro that he adores. Unfortunately he is an exception in the same sense that the bad Accord and Mazda were, just the other way around. Ditto for my Spirit.

When a survey says that 20% of Dodge Nitro owners have transmission trouble within 3 years, that leaves 80% still happy. The other 20% will probably move on to something else. If by comparison less than 1% of Fusion buyers have trouble, it does say something about the manufacturer. Quality is only as good as consistency. Anybody studying population dynamics can tell you the difference between culling 20% of the herd and 1% of the herd with each generation. It's been decades of that kind of difference among manufacturers that created the situation we have today.

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Technically, Dodge won't bite the dust, only certain models, and the marque will still exist.

http://www.mitechnews.com/articles.asp?id=11041

So what's all the fuss about?

A semi-related anecdote; I just got back from a week in Germany attending the Veterama Show in Mannheim, with a side trip to Stuttgart to visit the Mercedes-Benz Museum. In the un-scientific study observed by my eyes, I saw a crapload of station wagons on the road in all sizes & price-ranges, by nearly every Euro carmaker. Clearly they have not succumbed to SUV and minivan mania as we have.

Who will really lament the passing of the Jeep Commander or other (MoPaR) market-clogging SUV's? Or slow selling sedans with little resale value? It appears we won't lose the Dodge name, for the time being, at least, so what's the purpose of this thread?

I applaud any measure, from any quarter, that attempts to correct a problem that is of our own making. Let's wait till Wednesday when the aforementioned article comes out before the hand-wringing and hash-slinging officially begins.

TG

Edited by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)
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I can't be sure but I think Mopars are decent cars and they are backed by a pretty good warranty aren't they?

I think the bigger issue is exciting new products. They have nothing in the pipeline. I collect old Chryslers because they are cool. I admire them from the mid 30's even into the 70's with the Cordobas.

Dodge should be an easy marketable vehicle. It's not rocket science. For Chrysler Corporation, you have a nice 4 headed monster. Dodge Rams, which you should be able to sell, what? 200,000 a year? These are a nice looking full size truck and Americans still love their trucks. keep the formula fresh and moving forward.

Dodge - Use it to be the "performance / youth" brand. Go green. Build a hybrid and make it sports car oriented. Continue to build the Challenger and have a nice sports sedan. get out of the SUV market. Look to build 200,000 cars.

Chrysler - compete like you own a pair. Go against Buick, Cadillac, Lexus etc. I have seen a LOT of 300's and many of those owners are in the same demographic as a Lexus or Buick owner. But they wanted the unique styling of the 300. Look to build about 100,000 incl a small sport sedan, a minivan and a flagship car.

Jeep. get rid of all the SUV variants and keep the CJ, a nice midlevel SUV and a high end SUV. Look to build 150,000 Jeeps per year.

if Fiat is to be successful it must incorporate the minicar they want to pitch onto Americans as having Chrysler heritage input. I'm not buying a Fiat , period.

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This thread reminds me of the cars that had the Motor Trend "Car of the Year" title bestowed on them in the seventies and eighties. Many of the COTY winners were the most unreliable automobiles ever built. Pure crap! I actually bought one and got burnt badly and I know of several winners that were no better. That's why there is so much money to made selling automobile parts.

I consider myself conservative and am proud to be so. I've been buying autos for over 50 years and have never bought an import period. My conscience will not let me. Some of the cars and trucks I have owned have been great; very reliable. Some of them have not. What I would like to see is some American company re-enter the station wagon market so I can replace my mini-van. There are some things that my sedan just cannot do. Also I would like for Forbes to inform the local used car dealers of the current value of American used cars so I can find one of those two-year old Town Cars for $15,000.

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Also I would like for Forbes to inform the local used car dealers of the current value of American used cars so I can find one of those two-year old Town Cars for $15,000.

The $15,000 figure (actually $14,888) is a trade-in value figure. Here in heavily domestic-friendly Cincinnati the Kelley Blue Book web site (http://www.kbb.com/) lists a retail value (in "excellent" [perfect] condition) of $22,515 (Signature model, typically equipped, 30K miles). Their "private party sales" values for the same car are $20,015; $18,915; & $17,465 for "excellent"/"good"/"fair" condition.

You should be able to find a really nice one for around $22K almost anywhere.

Edited by Dave@Moon
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Guest abh3usn
Fiat claims there new line of products will "honor Dodge's hi-performance and rugged truck image". Cant you just see the new Fiat Hemi Charger?

What? There's going to be a Fiat version of "Hemi Under Glass" ??!

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Dave, My last comment on Consumer Reports....

Your quote..."Or the supplier was one of very inconsistent quality."

That is my point. You cannot take their testing as gospel. It does not always square with the facts. Their evaluation assumed that every item was consistent. It was not a reliability survey. It provided an suggestion of what to buy that was a very bad suggestion.

I'm out of this... now everybody can go back to either bashing or praising Dodge...

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Guest Skyking

That is my point. You cannot take their testing as gospel. It does not always square with the facts. Their evaluation assumed that every item was consistent. QUOTE]

That goes the same for the reports they gave Toyota a couple of years ago. They gave them good reviews in three past years when they didn't even test them. They said their standing quality was good because of past reviews. A bunch of fakes if you ask me...............

And a further note: If Chrysler thought their products weren't reliable, they woundn't have given their cars & trucks a Lifetime warranty. The only one offered in the car business.

Edited by Skyking
sp (see edit history)
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No one is going to miss Saturn too much,

In 2002 I went to the Toyota plant in Georgetown Kentucky and took the tour.

The next week I went to the Corvette plant in Bowling Green, KY and the Ford

Explored plant in Louisville , KY.

What a difference! Clean, efficient plant building Toyota's with happy workers.

The tour at Toyota was done by employees as a reward for good performance.

At the two American made plant we had tour guides that were retired UAW workers who bragged about how they could be problematic to production.

In fact at the Ford Plant I asked about the 4000 NO SMOKING signs and the

guys driving to new Explorers off the line were smoking in the new cars as they worked. The answer was the Company and the Union had agreed not to talk about that! (Each of the 3 plants started people at the same pay rate, only Toyota rewarded the work ethic)

In each American plant, I asked if they had been to Georgetown to see the Toyota plant? The answer was. Why would we want to do that? I told them they might want to see what was going to put them out of business.

In 2006 I bought a new Saturn Vue with a 6 cylinder engine and transmission

built by Honda. I went to their factory in Spring Hill, TN and took the tour.

It was like visiting the Toyota plant! (Clean happy workers rewarded for job skills and production)

The Saturn people in the dealership network all said that GM treated them like competiton instead of part of GM. Then GM took the Spring Hill plant away from Saturn and stated building pickup trucks there.

My conclusion was that GM was going to hold on to the old ways until they went under. But, I for one will miss Saturn, which I think was GM's last best hope to compete. If they and the UAW go under I wouldn't want another bailout for either. Sometime you have to give up on slow learners. Maybe we should do the same with bankers.

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But, I for one will miss Saturn, which I think was GM's last best hope to compete.

I've been missing them since 2001. The S-Series was a brilliant idea (Roger Smith had to have had one), an American VW or Civic (in business plan and product execution) with no apologies.

By 2002 Saturn was Oldsmobile with a new name, and it never strayed from that through to the end. It was like watching someone drink to his father's terminal cirrhosis.:(

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For Fiat's plans to work Chrysler has to survive the next 2 years with essentially the exact same product mix it has now. With it's market share off 50% from a year ago, and the market itself off by almost the same amount, that may be a very long bet.

Today's sales figures for Oct. look even more grim for Chrysler. With GM sales up (for the first time in almost 2 year) 4.7% and Ford sales up 3.3% over last October, Chrysler Corp. sales were off 30%! There is no missing decimal point in that figure.:eek:

The only bigger loser that that was the tanking Smart car, dropping 70% from last year. However that's just one model from Mercedes-Benz, who's other sales were up 21.3%.

Bear in mind that sales were already miserable last October.

Overall sales were down slightly, Japanese headquartered companies' sales were roughly even, European sales were mixed, and Korean headquartered companies' sales were through the roof--up nearly 50% from last year.

GM, Ford help lift October car sales - MarketWatch

Crisis deepens for Chrysler MarketWatch First Take - MarketWatch (Be sure to watch embedded video.)

It's going to be very interesting to see what Fiat Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne has to say tomorrow.

Edited by Dave@Moon
Added "watch embed" sentence. (see edit history)
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