carbking

Google "Then and Now Automotive". Good products, good people. Jon.

It appears to be the cheap Ball & Ball Carter downdraft favored by Chrysler Corp. I am not 100 percent on the identification. Obviously, identification would be a tad easier if the air cleaner were not present. Jon.

For those looking, there are two new old stock BB-1D carbs on ebay at this time at reasonable prices. Both appear to be new old stock and genuine. Take them apart, a thorough cleaning, a new kit, and should have a really good carb. Jon.

What is important first, is not what BB-1 you should have; rather what BB-1 you currently have. And the word "complete" has different meanings to different folks. I have had a few folks in the past figure if they supply the tag, then a complete kit would have everything else, including the proper castings! All levity aside, as stated in my last post, Carter made 68 different type BB-1 carburetors. If one buys a BB-1 6J2 new old stock off of Ebay for $5.00, one still CANNOT turn it into a BB-1A or BB-1D; the castings are different! Yes, I know they all LOOK the same! Which means a model T Ford looks like a Silver Ghost (both have 4 wheels). OK, sorry, I said I was done with levity. If one buys a 517s (fairly common type BB-1), and one has an automotive machine shop, one can make it close to the BB-1A. Or one can buy the necessary parts assuming one doesn't mind throwing several hundred dollars at the parts vendor. Or it is possible it can be made to function with less work/$. And before someone accuses me of this post being an ad to sell the BB-1A; let me assure everyone that I am sold completely out of the universal BB-1's, and have been for years. I know "bargains" occasionally surface on Ebay, but always nice to know exactly what you are getting before you get it; and pretty much imperative to know what you have before you try to use it. Oh, and our kits for the BB-1 have always included the pump spring, vacuum piston spring, and power valve spring. Off the BB-1 for awhile. My records show that the Victory 6 was a 208 CID engine using a cross-flange carburetor; and the DA 6 was a 208 CID engine with a straight-flange carburetor. Are these two the same engine with a different intake? Will the cross-flange intake fit instead of the straight-flange intake? Up through 1928, the Victory 6, in addition to using the zinc alloy Stromberg TX-2, also used the BRASS Detroit Lubricator. The Detroit Lubricator is close to original (off 1 year), is calibrated for the Dodge engine from the factory, and when professionally rebuilt, virtually bullet-proof! Another POSSIBLE option if the intake manifolds interchange (and I am sold out of these as well!). Jon.

Lots of folks have the mistaken idea that steel needles are uneffected by ethanol: Steel needles My guess is old fuel. Lots of folks don't like starting fluid, but I have personally used it for over 50 years with no issues. I would suggest a helper to crank over the engine for you. While it is being cranked, short squirts of starting fluid (NEVER when the engine is not turning over). With new wires and plugs, and spark at each cylinder, it should start. If it starts, run it at a high idle until warm. Then it may idle on the old gas. I had a similar issue with a low compression tractor that sat all winter. Wouldn't start cold on old gas. Get it started on fluid and run at high idle until hot, then would start on the old gas, as long as the engine was hot. That "45 day shelf life" posted by another gentleman above is generous! Jon.

The Carter type BB-1 carbs CAN be somewhat challenging to identify; especially since they have been in favor with old car enthusiasts for many years. Carburetors get "married" (others use a different term) by enthusiasts who are trying to make the carb fit on a different engine, or enthusiasts who know no better, or (worse case) some vendors selling carbs whose sales pitch "here is what you need, what do you need it to fit?". As to the accelerator pump, no offense meant to anyone, but absolutely no reason the accelerator pump should not work. There is a caged inlet check valve, a caged outlet check valve, a pump cylinder, a piston, an inlet passage, and a discharge passage. Rarely (but it does happen) one of the passageways becomes clogged in a carb that sits at the bottom of a pond for 150 years (give or take a year or so) Passageways should always be checked during the rebuild. Unlike the check valves in many carburetors, the check valves in the BB-1 are caged, in a threaded enclosure. Generally, they may be cleaned, and reused. If not, unscrew the old one, and replace it with new. New ones are available. The pump plunger is brass, it does not wear out; but new ones are available if one is somehow damaged. The "fly in the ointment" generally is the pump spring, which will over time fatigue. New springs come in the good rebuilding kits. I would suggest ALWAYS replacing the spring if you rebuild the carburetor. Carbs that sit unused for a long period of time, even on a running car, can have the piston stick; especially if the pump spring is old. If this is the case, remove the pump pivot screw from the pump operating linkage, and pull the pump UP (no, you don't need to disassemble the carb). Pulling the pump upward will break loose a pump that has stuck from evaporated fuel. Here is a link to a PDF file of the original Carter service instructions. I have written authority to publish this material. It may be used, downloaded, printed, whatever. Carter BB-1 factory service instructions The BB-1 ranks third highest on my list of replacement updraft carburetors, with a numeric score of 9.25 out of a possible 10. The Stromberg SF/SFM series, and the Zenith 63/263 series are tied for first and second with a numeric score of 9.5 out of 10. A 9.25 is still an "A", almost an "A+". Just wish Carter had used a vacuum accelerator pump like the Stromberg and Zenith models. The most common issue with the BB-1 is probably the fuel inlet valve. Fuel inlet valves came in three different thread configurations for O.E. (based on what the O.E. company wanted for a fuel line fitting) AND several different orifice sizes from 0.085 inch to 0.118 inch. The 0.118 valve (used for gravity feed) flows 93 percent more fuel than the 0.085 (used with some of the earlier Chevrolet trucks with fuel pumps). Even the carbs used on the largest Chevrolet engine (261 CID) used a 0.101 orifice with a fuel pump. The mechanical advantage of the float is such that, even the carbs with fuel pumps, need to have pressure NO MORE than 3 psi. Carter produced 68 different type BB-1 carbs. They did not make this many different simply for the engineers to have something to do. When migrating an O.E. carb to a different than stock application, the enthusiast becomes the engineer, and is responsible for his/her homework. Jon

Would be interested in knowing the "DV" number cast somewhere on the carburetor, for my records. Thanks. Jon.

Quote "After some research, I asked my wife for an ultrasonic cleaner for Christmas. I wanted to be able to clean carbs when needed. My research, I found out that you can either use a commercial grade carb cleaner designed for ultrasonic cleaners at about $100 a gallon. The unit I got hold 10 liters. That means at least $200 to fill it with parts." Ouch!!!!! I use water, with Dawn dishwater shop. Takes care of dirt and grease. Won't dissolve carbon, but a little automatic choke cleaner, followed by the Dawn will. Jon.

I don't own one, but perhaps this may help: Graham Brothers Serial Numbers Jon.

May be able to help. Contact me during normal business hours with the make and identification of your carburetor. Jon.

I have very little data on Kiblinger. There is a short blurb in "Standard Catalog of American Cars" (page 741) showing Kiblinger from 1907-1909 with models A (4 HP), B and C (6 HP), and D, E, and F (10 HP) 2 cylinder air cooled engines. There is a photocopy of an ad on Wiki showing the Kiblinger as a 12 HP, no model given. The surviving Kingston literature is very incomplete, especially on automobile applications (much better on tractors), but has no reference to Kiblinger. There is no information in either the Standard Catalog as to engine displacement (same size for 4 through 12 HP? doubtful) or carburetor information. As stated earlier, the picture on conceptcarz's site shows a Schebler model D, but nothing about the Kiblinger model, HP, engine size, etc. Just speculating that different size engines may have been used, and different carbs may have been used on the different size engines. The most common carbs found in the USA in the 1907~1909 period were Holley Brothers, Kingston, and Schebler, the Schebler being more complex, and more expensive than the other two. Unless you can find a picture of your exact model and engine from the 1907~1909 period, probably impossible to say for certain what was used. Which also means it will be impossible to prove you are wrong if you pick one. If you have such a picture, you might post it, and someone might recognize it, as I did the Schebler on the car on conceptcarz. Today, the Holley Brothers and especially the Kingston from the 1907~1909 era are very scarce and expensive due to the Model T Ford folks. Both Holley and Kingston made visible changes (totally different carbs) in 1910. While the Schebler D was produced from about 1903 to post WWII. Difficult to differentiate a Schebler D from say 1907 from one produced in 1935, thus the Schebler D is much more readily available and less cost. Jon.

There is no reference to a Kiblinger in the surviving Kingston literature. The carburetor pictured on the Kiblinger on the conceptcarz is a Schebler model D, probably with a gate valve throttle. Jon.

Robert Burchill, the owner of Burchill Antique Auto Parts, listed as the author, has been tuning vehicles in the clouds now for several years. Robert was adamant about using new old stock parts. In his later years, he underwent knee replacement. The next time we talked, during his recovery period, I asked him if he used new old stock parts in the replacement surgery. I think it made his day. He, and his wife Harriett, are both sorely missed. Jon.

Not sure why one would add the complexity of dual points unless trailered race car. If you should decide on an electronic whizbang, upgrade from your generator to an alternator FIRST. If you decide not to get the alternator, and do get the electronic whizbang, don't call when you have an erratic or no idle. Jon.

Matt - a handheld infrared pyrometer is not overly expensive. Jon.

Nothing wrong with most computers that cannot be cured by their morning cup of coffee.......................down the keyboard! Jon.

There are two very knowledgeable and HONEST rebuilders of the brass bowl Carter Chevrolet carburetors on the VCCA forums (vccachat.org). One goes by the moniker of junkyard-dog (real name Skip Geear), the other by the moniker of Chipper. Don't know if either may be persuaded to do a non-Chevrolet carb or not, but if you can talk either into doing the carb, it will be done right! Virtually all of the modern parts for the brass bowl carbs are made for Chevrolet, and come from far away. The fact there was no number on Tom's idle tube makes me think this may be the case. The Carter parts did have numbers, as did the Standard Hygrade aftermarket parts in the day. Jon.

First - DON'T send it to me; as I am no longer rebuilding. We are so busy with the manufacture of rebuilding kits, we no longer have time to rebuild. We do have a pretty decent inventory of parts and carbs for sale. No offense meant, but saying you have a DRT-08 is about as informative as saying you have a 15 inch tire! How wide, how tall, radial, mud and snow, etc., etc., etc. Carter made 44 different type DRT-08 carburetors. You HAVE to know what you have in able to buy the correct parts. The part number for the tube should be stamped on the plug. Carter NEVER sold the tube or plug separately. Jon

There should be a small orifice that will be located just above the solder once the tube is soldered to the plug. NO SEALANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have posted many times that whenever one reuses an idle tube in a Carter carburetor, one should gently SLIGHTLY expand the upper end by rolling the point of an icepick in the upper end. This is a trick I was taught by the head of the Carter training school decades ago. The upper casting passage is tapered. The rotation of the tube in the tapered passage will cut a seal. This can be observed in a very slight crimping of the metal at the top of the tube when a used tube is removed. Hopefully, your new tube is the correct one. Carter made dozens of different tubes with different calibrations. Why wasn't it soldered to the plug? What is the identification number of both of you fellows carburetors? Jon.

The tube is sealed to the plug with solder. The plug has a chamfer which seals to a matching chamfer in the casting. When a NEW or REFORMED idle tube is inserted into the casting, the pressure of the tube on the upper end will effect a seal, and once tightened, the mating chamfers will seal. Jon.

The idle tube must be soldered leak-free to the plug; and sealed to the casting at both the top and the bottom. Otherwise, no idle is possible without choke, even if the well jet is removed, and just the open passage is left. Jon.

Penberthy, the maker of the Ball & Ball carburetor, lists it as a DV (double venturii) or 2-barrel. Like most Penberthy carbs, it was a two-stage unit; but still a two-barrel. Oldsmobile used a similar Penberthy on their 8 in the same time period. I have seen some ads for Oldsmobile that listed fuel injection. Penberthy's full name was "The Penberthy Injector Company". Jon.

Same comment as I posted on the other thread: 4-barrel carburetor in 1917????? Jon.

Quote: "Excellent photo of the little-known 1917 Peerless Mod. 56 factory Sporting Roadster at the Cleveland Auto Show. $2,250 with wire wheels. 4-barrel carburetor, dual exhaust, 80 HP V-8. Quite the bargain compared to the $3,590 Limousine behind it. if you don't mind the wind in your hair!" 4-barrel carburetor in 1917????? Anyone have a picture? Jon.

Bernie - unless you purchase in large quantities, there is NEVER a reason to "put it away" Jon.