carbking

Mike - the needle-nose pliers will work maybe 50 percent of the time. The other 50 percent you twist out the center bar. The T109-290 mentioned above is similar. Will try to find one in my inventory tomorrow and picture it. Jon.

The "top hat" check valve in the WCFB generally requires a special tool. http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carter_tools.htm Scroll down to T109-279. No, I am not trying to sell you one. I wanted to show the picture to then be able to paint a word picture, as the tool CAN be fabricated if your machinist skills are sufficient. The end of the tool looks like a pipe die. It is tapered from large diameter at the bottom to small diameter somewhat higher up inside the tool. The inside of the tool is threaded like the die. The tool is used by sliding something with a hole (the handle end of a large adjustable end wrench will work) over the tool, and the threading the tool on the OUTSIDE of the "top hat" after the center post has been broken. Once securely screwed onto the top hat, use the handle end of the adjustable end wrench like a slide hammer against the cross bar at the top of the tool to remove the top hat. It works, EVERY TIME! I doubt very seriously you will get much service from that imitation accelerator pump. EDIT: For those who might wonder about the price of this tool compared to other tools on the list. Carter did NOT include this tool in ANY of the Carter tool kits. It had to be ordered separately, and it was VERY expensive at the time. Because of the cost to Carter, Carter superseded T109-279 with T109-290 (no, I don't have one of these pictured, it was also available only ala carte). Unfortunately, the T109-290 DID NOT WORK maybe 40 percent of the time, and T109-279 was still required. Jon.

Martin - your first post makes me think you may be beating the wrong horse. Quote "holding for red light the engine went out." This implies there is sufficient fuel for the engine to run at cruise, so why is there insufficient fuel to run at idle? Like Joe, my long-distance diagnostic skills may not be the best; but it sounds like you may have too much fuel, which is why in my initial post I suggested the choke pull off. If the choke pull off is bad, the engine would run, albeit not perfectly at cruise, but would probably stall at idle; and testing the choke pull off is quite easy. I like Joe's suggestion of the fuel pressure gauge. Testing is always preferable to guessing. Jon.

Carter made a special carburetor to use on the gyromatic cars. (Opinion) the Stromberg is superior to the Carter BBR-1 Chrysler used. Jon.

Remember the test well. Didn't believe the results then, and with a few years of experience with a couple of carburetors; still don't believe it. As to the title of the thread, in 1972, I had just been bitten by the buy-American bug, and was working on a '64 GTO. Tripower/dogmatic car. My '68 Datsun (before the buy-American bug) was about 3 seconds quicker in the quarter-mile. Jon.

Bears Fan - 1 minor correction: While one occasionally finds the brass cap on a Chevrolet carb; Carter did not place it there. Chrysler was the main user of the brass cap. You are correct about the pump sizes, but both the 136s (late 1929) and the 150s (1930-1931) used the rubber cup (Carter number 87-19s). The major difference in the 136s/150s carbs is that Carter tweaked the internal venturi size on the 150s by a 1/16 inch larger. Since the carburetors are identical externally, and the long, skinny pump was superior to the short, stubby one; most 1929 owners have a late 1929 with a 150s masquerading as a 136s. The original tags were red cardboard. As the 150s was built into the late '30's as a service unit, when Carter was using brass tags (beginning in 1932), one often finds a brass tag on a 150s. Jon.

There are MANY issues which can cause the same symptom. I know it is frustrating to go back to the mechanic to fix the same symptom, but the cause is probably different. I would look at the choke pull-off first; but I am probably 10,000 miles from you I would suggest going back to the mechanic. Jon.

Rochester supplied a "kit" consisting of a very tiny bushing, and a modified air horn to bowl gasket. The choke vacuum supply passage in the top of the bowl is milled slightly smaller than the O.D. of the bushing. The bushing is pressed into the choke vacuum supply passage in the top of the bowl. The choke vacuum supply passage in the bottom of the air horn is milled slightly larger than the O.D. of the bushing. The carburetor is reassembled using the new air horn to bowl gasket (the vacuum passage hole has been enlarged to fit over the bushing). Jon.

Ed - most do not have your resources (or my inventory). I have new old stock idle tubes in most sizes. But the enthusiast can drill idle tubes provided they have the proper drill components. It is why both of us try to share "fixes" on these forums. Jon.

A picture is worth how many words??? In the picture, you may see: (1) a set of furnace orifice drills (very useful if you work on carburetors or other items requiring small drillings) (2) a normal set of numbered drills numbers 61-80 (3) a pin vise with a tiny drill bit just to the left of the pin vise (4) a Stromberg idle jet a.k.a. idle tube, with a number 70 orifice drill just to its right (5) a quarter for size comparison The orifice drills come with a "handle" to use by hand, not in a power drill. The pin vise comes with a set of collets to hold different size drills. The Stromberg idle jet is shown with the feed hole (if you see it) by the thread, this is a standard size hole, and should be left alone. The layout attempts to show you should drill into the necked down end (right side in picture) of the idle jet's tube. The quarter is what you owe me for the advice, BUT you have to turn the clock back 25 years so I could use it to buy a cup of coffee! http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Stromberg_idle_jet_modification.jpg Jon.

Yes - the necked down or tapered end is the orifice. If you know the identification number of the carburetor, you can look up the original specification in your Stromberg manual. BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU LOOK IT UP. FOR SOME REASON KNOWN ONLY TO STROMBERG, THEY GENERALLY USED THE NUMBERED DRILL SIZE, BUT OCCASIONALLY USED DRILL DIAMETER! If you don't have the Stromberg manual, then simply measure starting from small and using sequentually larger drill bits to determine the diameter. This method is less accurate, as generally there is a thin layer of "varnish" in the orifice. You will need the smaller sized numbered drill set (higher numbers), and a pin vise (or buy a set or furnace orifice drills). You will quickly find that the numbered drill set does not contain all of the various sizes from thousandth to thousandth, particularly as the diameters grow larger. Think metric to fill in; both standard metric, and fractional metric. And while not required, if I make a calibration modification to a carburetor, I make a little triangular tag stamped "MOD" to place under one of the air horn to bowl screws. A "modifications" card in the glove box is never a bad idea! Jon.

Matt - item number 6 (idle tube) a.k.a. idle jet. Jon.

Perfectly normal for any updraft carburetor. Some of the makes even had a "drip tube" that ran from the carburetor away from the engine, and shunted the leaked fuel out onto the ground often behind the front wheel. There is one easy fix..............................don't put gasoline in the fuel tank, eventually, the leak will stop (along with the engine) On a good note, the Stromberg type UR is one of the very best of the smaller updraft carburetors that has even been produced. Jon.

Matt - hesitation from idle can be a number of issues (including timing); however, IF the culprit is the carburetor: (1) The dynamic A/F mixture is too lean OR (2) The dynamic A/F mixture is too rich Sounds simple, and it is. Testing (which you have done) will reveal which condition exists. Since you moved the pump operating rod from center to top to bottom; you found the smallest volume pump shot (top hole) caused the most hesitation; while the largest volume pump shot (bottom hole) caused the least hesitation. So the dynamic A/F mixture is too lean. This is quite often a minor but annoying issue using modern fuel, and many do not understand the function of the idle circuit. For decades, I have mentioned that the "idle mixture screws" are mis-named; as they do not change the idle mixture. Consider the controls to an old-fashioned shower head (three controls). One is cold water, one is hot water, and the third is volume. Now, apply this concept to the idle circuit in MOST carburetors. The cold water represents the idle air bleed, the hot water represents the idle jet, and the volume represents the idle mixture screw(s). So the mechanic CAN change the amount of air/fuel volume with the idle mixture screws, but the ratio remains the same. In the shower example, the bather may control the temperature (A/F ratio) by changing the setting of either the cold water faucet or the hot water faucet. Without modifications, the A/F ratio may NOT be controlled by the mechanic, as both the idle air bleed and the idle jet orifices (sizes) are fixed by the carburetor manufacturer. Not getting into a treatise on ethanol (E-10) here, other than it has less energy than gasoline; and its possible that with all of the other additives non-ethanol fuel also has less energy than 1940 gasoline. The mechanic CAN change the A/F ratio by oversizing the orifices of the idle jet(s). By slightly enlarging the idle jet(s), the idle mixture is slightly richer, which helps the dynamic mixture to be slightly richer when the throttle is opened, thereby reducing or eliminating the hesitation. Typically, on older vehicles, enlarging the idle jet(s) orifice by 0.002 does the trick. On modern modified engines (Pontiac 400 with a four barrel where the owner just had to have the rumpa, rumpa, rumpa of a ram air IV camshaft is a good example), we have occasionally had to enlarge the jets (0.001 per iteration) as much as a total of 0.006 inch to eliminate the hesitation. Now back to my comment about the idle circuit in MOST carburetors. During the mid-1950's through the mid to late 1960's, some carburetors had an adjustable idle air screw to control idle RPM. These things are an absolute nightmare to adjust to modern fuel; but do have one redeeming function. We generally suggest to customers having this type of idle circuit (mostly GM, but other makes dappled with it), to simply add the curb idle screw found on carburetors without the big air screw. Now the air screw is exceptionally useful for customers that insist on racing camshafts on the street. Think of the holes drilled in the throttle plates to allow adjustment of the angle of the throttle plate at idle, which is turn controls idle air velocity inside the carburetor. The big air screw now becomes an adjustment for the mixture, while the added curb idle screw allows for adjustment of the idle RPM. Jon.

If you heed this "advice", this will be by far the most expensive can of anything you ever buy! Jon

This link will answer your question about original equipment: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Knash.htm Jon.

The BB1D carburetor is strictly aftermarket, and is post-WWII when it was built. This link may help with service: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Service_Carter_BB_updraft.pdf Parts are readily available in the USA, but the manufacturer posts only to the USA and Canada. Jon.

I think I have an extra, or maybe more; but I am not going to ship either, and with what is going around, no offense, but I am not entertaining visitors. Jon.

I see this thread has been re-activated. A bit more information: I have been searching for a company to digitize these films for 30 years without success! The issue is the optical soundtrack (which is also the reason the plastic gears melt). Normal Super 8 film has a magnetic sound track, where larger formats (i.e. 16mm, 35mm, etc.) have optical soundtracks. The way the sound track is used in the projector is with a very hot "exciter" bulb. The bulb gets sufficiently hot to eventually destroy the plastic gears. Some 30 years ago, I found the individual/company that had bought the last of these machines/parts/etc., and at the time he was offering a restoration service on the machines (no, I don't remember his name). He is the one who explained the issue, and told me ALWAYS have an external fan blowing on the projector for cooling to prolong the life of the gears. I have virtually all of the Pontiac tapes from 1972 (earliest) to 1980, and some of the 1982's. This was not a couple of years project, as some of the earlier posts in this thread thought. I would love to have these digitized. Digitization of the Super 8 filmloops has two issues: (1) the optical sound track which seems to be unique on Super 8 film to these cartridges, and the fps (frames per second) of the Super 8 is different than for digital. My son digitized the Pontiac filmstrips from about 1933 to 1971, so those are preserved, but would really like to have the Super 8 filmloops digitized as well. I have given up searching. If any of you younger folks find anyone that can do it, I would be a customer. I have heard many versions of why GM used these machines; but have no proof of any of them. I do remember that the dealers I knew at the time hated them, as they could not keep them running. One dealer told me the setup (theater, projector, tapes) cost him $2800. the first year (1972) but I have never found any written documentation to substantiate that. If true, $2800. in 1972 would have probably got the dealer one of the less expensive new models. 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time) Jon.

Welcome - beautiful car, great intro. And congratulations on becoming an Eagle Scout. Jon.

I have now loaded MOST of the factory Carter service documents on my website. These are the generic instructions by carburetor type (i.e. W-1, WCFB, AFB, Solid fuel Thermoquad, etc.). Some of the later documents are large (in Adobe pdf format), and will take several seconds to load; BE PATIENT! And while all of these documents were copyrighted, I have written authority from the Carter Carburetor Company to copy them. Still looking for the documents for the AVS (maybe Carter didn't figure the AVS was worth servicing ) Here is the link: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carter_service.htm Jon.

Try connecting a car starting jumper cable from the ground terminal of the battery to a head bolt, and see if the cranking speed increases. Jon.

Taking the above post 1 step further. My records show the MV-1B of the OP to be original to a 1926 Star with a Continental W5 engine. A further check of the records show: (1) In 6 years, Star tried 10 different Tillotson carburetors on the W5 - why? (2) Checking the Continental records, most of the W5 engines went to Star and Durant, all using Tillotsons, but Oswald used a Continental W5 with a Stromberg SFM-1, part number 127-1, production number F-3673. Jon.

In the For What Its Worth category: Most of the early bronze carbs, including Tillotson, had pot metal venturii. Virtually all rebuilds of these carbs should include a new venturi to be machined, unless it has already been replaced. As far as Tillotson is concerned; many of the early Tillotsons used a "vane box" with steel vanes that deflected with the air velocity (basically an early variable venturi design) in the air intake. The Tillotson documentation stated these vanes should be tested for fatigue (they would stiffen with the flexing over time), replaced with new as required, and adjusted with a special Tillotson tool (which I have never seen, and I seek out and collect carburetor tools!) I also have never found documentation on the specifications of the steel used for the vanes. I realize quite well that this site promotes originality, to which I generally agree. However, if I owned a car with one of these that I actually wanted to start the engine, rather than look at it; I would certainly NOT try starting it with a Tillotson carburetor. But to answer the OP's question to the best of my knowledge, I am unaware of any professional that will touch one, other than the aftermarket JR series. Jon

Matt's comments are spot-on. Replace components as necessary. Even allowing non-ethanol fuel of today to sit in the tank for longer than 8 weeks is a bad idea. The best solution is to simply drive the car more often Jon