carbking

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Everything posted by carbking

  1. I saw it. Insufficient data provided to give an answer. Jon.
  2. Of the Penberthy carbs that I have acquired over the years, none are both complete and not cracked internally. Even if they were I would not suggest using one on a driver today, because of the change in fuel. The big selling point of Penberthy was they were fully automatic; there was NO ADJUSTMENT. Adjustment to the characteristics of modern fuel is a must, and Penberthys do not have adjustments. As to how they performed in their day...............I may be old, but not THAT old , don't know. Stromberg offered a UX-3 as a replacement for the earlier Big Sixes (note that Studebaker used a Stromberg UX-3 on the Big Six in 1928). Unfortunately, the UX-3 used the same zinc alloy (pot metal) as the UX-2, and the UX-2 woes have been very well documented on these forums. There may be a UX-3 with usable castings somewhere on the planet, but I would be afraid to trust one. While I do have a couple for sale, they would be sold with the understanding that the castings should be used as patterns to allow one to cast new castings in aluminum, machine them, and then transfer the other parts (throttle, choke, jets, etc.) EVEN IF THE CASTINGS LOOK GOOD! But the Stromberg UX-3 superseded the OX-3. The OX-3 is brass, but with a zinc alloy venturi. So what I would suggest would be to acquire a Stromberg OX-3 (should fit the intake with NO adapter, the X means cross), acquire the internal specifications for the UX-3 for Studebaker; and then machine the correct diameter venturi from aluminum, and recalibrate the OX-3 to mimic the UX-3 calibrations. Alternatively IF YOU HAVE CASTING CAPABILITY: acquire a UX-3, re-cast and machine the castings, and rebuild to original specifications. Jon.
  3. Ours is cast aluminum that was then machined. It is a size 3 cross (2 15/16 c-c). The cross will rotate the straight BB1 90 degrees. As to the use of the BB1 on the Studebaker Big Six: The LARGEST displacement engine for which Carter recommended the BB1 was 315 CID. Your engine is 12 percent larger. I have always been a believer that engineers knew what they were doing so I am not going to recommend the BB1 to use on the Big Six. Jon.
  4. As far as an adapter is concerned, Carter listed an adapter number 72-39 as a size 3 cross. We have a replacement size 3 cross which is shorter than the Carter. The Carter adapter is 2 inches tall, while ours is approximately 1/2 inch. Jon.
  5. A bit of information, some of it seemingly conflicting: In 1920, Studebaker used the Stromberg LS-2 on the Special Six, but not the Big Six. The Big Six used a Penberthy, but I do not have the reference number. This is also true for the model years 1921 and 1922. In 1923, the Big Six used the Penberthy SV-12. This was also true for 1924. In 1925, the Big Six carb was changed to a Penberthy SV-14 (early production), which in turn was changed to a Penberthy SV-29 later in the year. 1926 is where information may be conflicting. The Penberthy was changed to the SV-33, and supposedly a Stromberg LS-2 was also used. In 1927, a Stromberg TX-2 is shown ON RHD EXPORT MODELS ONLY. A Stromberg OX-2 was listed for domestic models, and the SV-33 Penberthy was continued. In 1928, the Stromberg was a UX-3 Now, the number to the right of the Stromberg type, tells us the S.A.E. flange size; while the letters are the model types. An S.A.E. size 2 carburetor would have a nominal throat size on 1 3/8 inches, and a center-to-center bolt spacing of 2 11/16 inches. The larger size 3 carburetor would have a nominal throat size of 1 5/8 inches, and center-to-center spacing of 2 15/16 inches. The Penberthy is a size 3 carburetor. The LS, OX, TX, and UX Strombergs are ALL cross-flange carburetors. The Carter BB-1 is a straight flange carburetor, and would require an adapter to be mounted correctly on the Big Six engine. My question, and no offense meant, is it possible the Carter adapter is still on the intake, and that is what is causing the Stromberg to have clearance issues? And while I have no Studebaker parts books, how did they get an LS-2, OX-2, or TX-2 on the same manifold as the Penberthy (different bolt spacings)? Or, did Studebaker have a different manifold (or adapter) for the size 2 carburetor? Jon.
  6. Quote "It is dripping just when turning over and not at RPM and worse when it fires over." When the engine is turning over, vacuum should prevent the drip. When it fires over, even more so. Would suggest a compression test. Guessing you have a sticking intake valve. There still may be something wrong with the carb; but these symptoms are telling you something else is wrong. Jon.
  7. I am in total agreement with Ed in both the current condition of most of the pre-1933 pot metal and the fact that these bodies would be exceptionally difficult to print. However, should you, or someone else, opt to ignore the advice from Ed and myself; I can probably provide the original Stromberg prints for any/all of these castings.......at a price. Jon.
  8. No. My vote is with Matt on the electronics. Since the mid-1980's, I have been telling enthusiasts that original idle speed solenoids for 1970's cars are not available. How many "computers" are on the newer cars. Quite honestly, I would much rather drive my 1998 Ford Ranger than my 2014 Ford Explorer. One person cannot drive the explorer. It requires two: one to watch the road, and one to watch and adjust the *&^%$#$%^&*(*&^% electronic touch panel! If only one person in the car, that one needs to pull to the side of the road to adjust the defroster, or even to change the radio station! The vehicle is dangerous! Probably as much so as texting while driving! Jon.
  9. The throttle shaft and throttle plates are unique to some of the rear carbs used on the compound carburetor. The screws are the standard Stromberg 6/32 oval head brass screw. If you do not find the shaft and plates, I have a rebuilt 7-43 available. Jon.
  10. With respect to other's adjustment procedures, I prefer: (1) disconnecting linkage from both carbs (leave it off completely). (2) adjust idle mixture screws (all) at 1 turn (at this point, doesn't matter if too rich, only that they are the same). (3) now use the Uni-Syn to balance the carbs. (4) install the linkage on one carb, and fasten it in place. (5) adjust the linkage such that it slips onto the second carb with no movement of either throttle arm (a tach should show no RPM variation). (6) now ready to adjust mixture screws, and curb idle. Once the engine is turned off and cooled, the fast idle may be adjusted. The reason I like to have the linkage totally removed is that I am CERTAIN that the rod isn't going to hang up somewhere and give me a false reading. I don't even like to think about adjusting the linkage on a 1958 Pontiac tripower at roughly 2 A.M. the day before one of the POCI conventions! ☹️ Jon.
  11. Tom, I no longer rebuild any carbs, due to demand on my time for the manufacture of rebuilding kits. Welding skills??? My welding skills consisted of a checkbook, and a trip to a welding shop. My own welding appeared like the underside of the desk I inherited in third grade! But the welding is not that difficult. Weld the hole completely full, and then re-machine the casting. Have had to do that to more than one AFB, where some "mechanic" drilled out a main metering jet. Jon.
  12. I think you need different linkage, but in the meantime, remove the linkage from one carb, loosen ALL of the nuts attaching both carbs to the intake, and with a helper, push both carbs toward each other and then tighten all of the nuts. There is a tiny bit of play in the carb throttle body to the studs. You might get enough slack to do some testing; but I would highly recommend redoing the linkage. Multiple carb linkage is very easy to fabricate. If you wish, give me a call during normal business hours, and I will explain. Then, if you wish, you can type it in this thread. Jon
  13. Might be easier, and definitely less expensive, to fix the one you have. Jon.
  14. Dating the Detroit Lubricator carburetors can be tricky, as DL made running changes. Note that the replacement blank dataplates (bowl covers) have been available for decades. Also note, that due to the value, enterprising individuals, some honest and unknowing, others uncaring, have been "marrying" DL Packard carburetors for years. However, if one were to find a truly original Detroit Lubricator type 51 for Packard, it could have been identified by the stamping on the dataplate. The stamping on original Packard DL carbs identifying the production date was in the format myyiii, where m is a character representing the month (A=Jan, B=Feb, etc.), yy is the last 2 digits of the year, and iii represented the DL identification number (on modern carbs, this would be a tag number or list number). A couple of examples: A31758 - A is January, 31 is the last two digits in 1931, and 758 is the identification number. This carb was used on the 826 and 833 in January only of 1931. B31759 - B is February, 31 is the last two digits in 1931, and 759 is the identification number. This carb was used on the 826 and 833 in February only of 1931. I will grant that it is difficult to follow, but I have posted the dates and id numbers in the Packard section of my kit catalog HERE Stampings on DL carbs for Graham and Cadillac used different formats. Stamps on older Stewart (Division of Detroit Lubricator) carbs on Chrysler, Dodge, Essex, Hudson, etc. SOMETIMES followed the same format as Packard. Jon
  15. Cannot help with this one, however: I don't remember the year (time flies when you are having fun ), but maybe early 1990's, received a call from a good customer that had bought a bunch of carburetors from an auction at the Henry Ford museum, thinking they should be saved from destruction, and hoping I would want them. I really didn't at the time, but I did anyway; and he sent them to me. Turns out, they were all prototypes, or experimental carbs, that never made production. Holley, Kingston, and Stewart-Warner were represented. A few years later, Holley was setting up their museum, and the Holley versions ended up there. I still have most of the Kingston (including a prototype downdraft two-barrel for the flathead Ford), and the Stewart-Warner carbs. I do not recognize the unit pictured. Jon.
  16. It is from a National Service Manual. EDIT: Jeff - just reread your first post. I believe National started as Reed with the wiring diagrams back in the 'teens. There are several manuals from this time, and they didn't start covering carbs until (memory ?) 1930. These are large manuals, and yes, they cover much more than carbs. I have a complete set for sale up to sometime in the 1950's. Jon.
  17. One is all that is required, move it from carb to carb, and back again as necessary. Jon.
  18. Don't know if Oldsmobile covered this in their shop manual or parts manual, but I would suggest trying to locate one or both. All of the information presented to me as a result of this thread, is posted in the thread. I will wish you good luck in your search. Jon.
  19. "Figures don't lie, but liars figure". Quotation attributed to Mark Twain. CFM And to take the comment about liars even further, one company making carburetors wanted a 600 CFM for comparison with a competing brand. When engineering informed sales that since the company historically had not made a 600, new components (throttle shafts, throttle plates, venturii, etc.) would all have to be designed and machined, sales said "no problem, just take a 625 add a new id number, and sell it as a 600! Jon.
  20. I would be interested in learning how rated CFM for efi compares to rated CFM for carburetors. After 60 years of playing with carburetors, the best explanation for carburetor CFM that I have seen was written by Mark Twain! Jon
  21. Carter 2122s was introduced 5 October 1953. Most of the 1954 carburetors were released in August. Jon.
  22. In the for what its worth category: The below applies to downdraft carburetors where the idle mixture control screw meters a mixture of fuel and air. It does NOT apply to those carburetors (such as a Zenith type 23) where the idle mixture screw meters only air. Most carburetors have a range for adjustment of the idle mixture control screws specified by the factory. The method I have used for some 60 years is simple: (1) Look up the range. WHERE? In your service manual (2) Divide the range into three equal parts (3) Set the initial setting of the idle mixture control screws (see below) (4) Turn the throttle positioner screw to give a fast idle (5) Start the engine, and warm to normal operating temperature. (6) Set the idle RPM by backing down the throttle positioner screw. (7) At this point you are going to be very close, PLUS you are going to minimize or eliminate hesitation from a stop from having too rich an idle mixture. Setting the idle mixture screws: I use the following: (A) Divide the idle mixture screw range into 3 equal parts. (B) If the engine is freshly overhauled to about 1500 miles set the screws at two thirds of the range (C) If the engine has 1500 miles or so, and in good to excellent condition, set the screws at one third of the range (D) If the engine is burning oil badly, and you are just trying to prolong the inevitable rebuild, set the screws at the maximum of the range. Example: Lots of carbs use a range from three quarters of a turn to one and one half turns. So the range is three quarters of a turn. Note the beginning of the range is also three quarter of a turn. Each third would then be 1/4 turn So with this example: B above beginning of range 3/4 turn plus 2/3 of the range (2 times 1/4 or 1/2) so the setting would be 1 1/4 turns C above beginning of the range 3/4 of a turn plus 1/3 of the range (1/4 turn) so the setting would be 1 turn. D above the maximum (from our factory range is 1 1/2 turns) so that is what I would use. Caviat: Do not automatically assume that ALL carburetors use this range! A large majority of the carbs 1967 and before used an idle mixture control screw with a large angle and short taper. The example range is much more likely with this type of screw. In 1968, Federal smog emission became effective. To acquire a finer idle mixture setting, the idle mixture screws (for the most part) suddenly were redesigned with a smaller angle and much longer taper. It is not unusual for the range on these screws to be 1 1/2 turn to 3 1/2 turn or even more. Comments: Setting the idle mixture screws out further than the range will have no effect on the mixture above that at the maximum other than in the mind of the adjusting individual. Setting (and leaving this setting) for the highest vacuum will virtually guarantee a hesitation from a stop sign if the vehicle is equipped with an automatic transmission. WHY? Vacuum is measured beneath the throttle valve. The highest vacuum will be acquired when the throttle plate is completely closed (no signal to the idle transition circuit) and 100 percent of the idle fuel is coming through the lower idle port. As there is no air velocity past the throttle plate(s), puddling occurs in the intake manifold. When the throttle is opened to accelerate, the air velocity sweeps the puddles into the cylinders causing a RICH hesitation, followed immediately by a LEAN hesitation because there is no fuel available from the idle transition circuit, and the fuel from the accelerator pump is a few milli-seconds from being available. If you wish to "tweak" from this setting go ahead, but you are going to be very close on pre-1968 vehicles. Multiple carburetor setups (solid linkage) will have a range which is closer to zero as the beginning point of the range. Multiple carburetor setups with progressive linkage - use the factory settings. I really cannot fathom why anyone would consider using progressive linkage on anything but a numbers-matching show car, so no need to discuss trying to make an aftermarket setup work. Jon.
  23. carbking

    1931 SA Carb

    The RT-08 is more closely related to the DRT-08 than to the RJH-08. Jon.
  24. One other thought just occurred to me: Lincoln once used a choke coil that uncoiled exactly opposite from those used by other companies. Possibly some well-meaning unknowing vendor sent one of these "across the sea" and had it reproduced to sell for other makes; or possibly the company doing the reproductions did not understand the function of the part. Jon.
  25. From the link I posted earlier: Operation – integral hot air chokes The integral choke, like the divorced choke, closes due to a coiled bimetallic strip that rotates with temperature change. The coil is located inside the integral choke housing. Also inside the choke housing is a vacuum piston assembly. An internal vacuum source enters the choke housing behind the vacuum piston, and escapes by the choke piston to cause a negative pressure (vacuum) on the entire integral choke housing. As the housing is connected to the hot air choke tube, this negative pressure pulls air heated by the exhaust through the heat tube. This hot air causes the tension of the coil to relax, allowing the vacuum piston (this may be thought of as an internal choke pulloff) to open the choke plate. Adjustment – all except electric chokes and the 1937-38 Delco unit All chokes other than the above may be adjusted as follows: pick a time with the ambient temperature is between 65 and 70 degrees F. (68 degrees F. is the perfect temperature), and adjust the choke such that the choke plate on a cold engine just TOUCHES closed, with zero tension. The choke coil will then compensate for other temperatures If the above doesn't explain the operation to you - 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.