carbking

When starting hot, change your approach: Hot starting issues Jon.

Over the last 50 years, I have solved MANY "carburetor" problems, as well as hard starting ignition problems, on both 6v and 12v systems. The solution: first scrape off the 92 coats of engine paint that the "restorer" placed on one of the head bolts; then connect a heavy-duty jumper cable from the ground terminal of the battery to this particular head bolt. Paint is not a particularly efficient carrier of electric current. Jon.

As I no longer am working on carburetors, I am going through my personal collection of carburetor literature, and placing it for sale on my website. Currently, I am working with Carter literature. I have pulled my collection of Carter ->car make / car make->Carter interchanges, as well as virtually a complete collection of the Carter Performance Manuals. The interchanges will allow one to look up a Carter carburetor or part and then find the corresponding car make (i.e. Buick) part number for the carburetor or part. Conversely, one could look up a carburetor or part in the car make (i.e. Chevrolet) parts manual, and then find the corresponding Carter carburetor or part number. These interchanges are quite scarce, some I have only found the one in 50 years of collecting carburetor literature. These may be found at: Carter carburetor and parts interchanges The Carter Performance catalogs list Competition and high performance street carburetors, as well as excellent sections on original calibrations for Carter carburetors (jets, metering rods, etc.). Some of the manuals also include service procedures for the competition carburetors. These instructions were never published in the standard Carter loose-leaf Master catalogs. These may be found at: Carter Performance Catalogs ALL items are priced on the website, with a minimal description. To discuss exact contents of any, please call during normal telephone hours (see signature). Other items from my personal collection will be listed as time permits. Unless specific requests for other brands are requested, I will continue to work with the Carter literature. Jon

Of all the carburetors Carter ever produced, from about 1909 through the end in 1985, the BBR series is the ONLY series for Carter to ever publish a trouble-shooting guide: Carter BBR issues A gentleman much wiser than me once said: "baloney is great, if you have never tasted steak"! There is a long story that I have posted before here (hopefully, search will find it) about Plymouth using the much better W-1 (Chevrolet) carburetor in for a limited time in 1947. If not, and you wish to hear it, give me a call during normal telephone hours, I don't type as well as I once did. Jon.

The Chysler 6 is 242 CID. Stromberg made a carburetor SPECIFICALLY for the Chrysler application. The Strombergs listed in your other thread are made for 218 CID engines. Better than the Ball & Ball, but still far from optimal. Jon.

A couple of articles you may find interesting: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Buick_1937_1938_carburetors.htm http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Heatstovefabrication.htm Jon.

Not without doing several hours of research, and (opinion) not worth the time/cost. Both are the Ball & Ball design, which were some of the worst downdraft carburetors ever built by Carter, which Carter themselves freely admitted. So: (1) Be original (E6N1 or E6N2) OR if you plan to drive the car (2) Install a carburetor with a better record than the type BBR's such as the replacement Stromberg available in the day Jon

In the day, Marvel, Schebler, and Stromberg all offered replacement carburetors. I have never seen either of the specified Marvel or Stromberg carburetors. The Schebler model S is not either the least expensive or the most reliable carburetor in the world, but could be found. Of course, there are other carburetors that may be used. The Chrysler 70 has a cross-flange intake, so any modern carburetor would require a cross-flange adapter. The adapter adds to the distance the engine vacuum must pull fuel, thus making the carburetor less efficient. If used, one should be as thin as possible retaining the necessary rigidity. In general (there are exceptions), updraft carburetors do not care if the fuel supply is low pressure or gravity, as long as the carburetor is modified internally for the system chosen. The exceptions would be carburetors which have insufficient float buoyancy to support pressure (most, maybe all Johnson models would fit this category). When choosing an aftermarket carburetor, the terrain where the car will be primarily used should be considered. MANY of the cheaper aftermarket carburetors, especially the modern ones, have NO power circuit. Not the best choice if one lives in the Ozark region of Missouri. They do work pretty well in the Missouri bootheel or southern Illinois. Jon.

Google Luekenheimer. They were commonly used on hit or miss engines. Kingston may also have made one. Since Kiplinger offered to install other carburetors at the clients request, you really cannot be wrong as long as the carburetor you choose was available in the year of manufacture of your Kiplinger. Of the carburetors available in 1907, the Schebler model D was probably the cream of the crop. There is a picture of a Kiplinger on the internet with the Schebler model D installed. Jon.

The 1939 Chrysler 6 used a Carter E6N1 early, which was superseded mid-year with E6N2. The 1939 Chrysler 8 used a Stromberg AAV-2 (4-77). Jon.

There are a couple of 1907 Kiplinger books reproduced on the internet that I found using Google. One suggests that all three engine sizes in 1907 used a Kingston carburetor (and a Kingston is shown on the one auctioned by Sotheby's). However, the following is an except from the other manual: "We have eliminated the uncertain and troublesome carburetor, although we can attach any carburetor that may be desired, for which we will make a charge depending on the carburetor suggested by our patrons. We, however, strongly recommend the use of our mixing valve, which we believe under all circumstances will give more desirable and more efficient service than most of the carburetors on the market, and avoid so many of the uncertain and provoking conditions." Another Kiplingler pictured has a Schebler Model D carburetor. Jon.

Test! As mentioned by others in the thread: you need (1) compression, (2) spark, (3) air/fuel mixture, (4) all arriving at the right time. Compression testers are inexpensive, and easy to use. If the compression is bad, fixing the spark and/or the air fuel mixture won't matter. Test compression first. Spark testers are inexpensive, and easy to use. If the spark is bad, fixing the air/fuel mixture won't matter. Test the spark second. If the spark is good, check the timing of the spark. If compression, spark, and timing are good, fill the carburetor through the bowl vent rather than pouring gas down the throat of the carburetor. See if the engine will fire. If it will, great. If not, maybe time to enlist some more experienced help. And a fire estinguisher rated for gasoline sitting within easy reach is never a bad idea when trying to start an unknown engine. Have fun, but be safe. Jon.

Let me know what issue. I have hundreds of duplicate issues available for sale. Jon.

I am all for it being moved, if it should be moved. However, the title of the forum includes "printed material" and the tags to be used in the forum include "for sale" and "wanted". Jon.

As I am no longer working on carburetors, I am offering some of the literature from my personal collection (as well as duplicate literature, some of which has been on my website for some time). This offering is for probably the most comprehensive set of documents on the Carter brass bowl carburetors that exists today. This was the first carburetor manual I purchased, about 1967. The manual was originally a cardboard backed manual printed in 1931, and updated to 1933. The original manual when I purchased it was roughly 3/4 inch thick. Carter produced an earlier manual, which I have never seen, but my mentor had one, and he was sufficiently gracious to photocopy the manual for me, which I added to this manual. What happened to his collection of literature, parts, etc. when he passed should be a wake-up call to all of us, but that is a different story. Let's just say that material will never again be available.☹️ For years, I specialized in the brass bowl Carters, as well as the Carter W-1's. A friend at Carter was kind enough to photocopy the then existing assembly drawings for other carburetors too obscure to have printed forms (example, New Way). These I also added to the book. Since I used the book extensively, I placed the pages in protective sleeves, and then placed everything in one of the later Carter maroon binders. So what does the book include: (1) specification and adjustment sheets for dozens of brass bowl updraft carburetors, beginning with number 4 and ending with number 228. NO, it is not inclusive. (2) special bulletins specific to various makes (part calibration change, adjustment changes, issues, etc.) (3) general bulletins non-make specific (one included in the introduction of the BB updraft universal carburetor) (4) parts price list AND APPLICATION LIST 1923-1931 (5) parts price list and application list 1932-1933 (part of the update). (6) carburetor price list and application list The parts application lists answer LOTS of the questions asked on these forums. So how can you use it? Let's say you need a carburetor for your 1930 Chevrolet. The parts book tells you it is a Carter RJH-08. Literature on the 'net tells you it should be tag number 150s. You find an RJH-08 at a swap meet, but of course there is no tag. What do you do? Well, you took this book with you, along with an adjustable end wrench, a pencil eraser, and a good magnifying glass. You ask the vendor if he/she will allow you to remove the bowl. After he/she says yes, you remove the bowl, take the pencil eraser, and clean the bottom of the multiple nozzle that is now accessable. With the glass, you are able to read 12 on top and 106 on the bottom. Turning to the index, you find this nozzle is unique to Carter number 119s. You consult the carburetor index, and find 119s was used by Chrysler. You continue to look, but don't spend money you don't need to spend for the incorrect carburetor. You can identify virtually ALL brass bowl carburetors using this technique and this book. You can also identify a part that you need from the specifications page for your carburetor, and then look in the applications list to find what other carburetors may have used the same part. Price of the book is $850. to include postage and insurance within the 48 contiguous United States. The book is for sale in its entirely, not interested in selling photocopies of portions of the book. If you wish to do so, AFTER you buy it, your choice. And, no offense meant to anyone. Scanners are cheap, as is disk space. This book will be sold as is, no warranty, not returnable. Will be happy to discuss exact contents BY TELEPHONE, not by message, not by email, not by posts on this forum. 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time). Will accept VISA / MasterCard Jon.

In order: (1) As Tom mentioned above, drive out the brass venturi retaining plug. (2) PULL the venturi from the top using the special tool. If you are extremely lucky, it will come out. (3) Remove the cotter pin (often the top is rusted way, so you won't see it) holding the choke shaft. (4) Remove the choke shaft. (5) Now the choker cone will easily come out the top. New and new old stock parts are readily available; used parts on these carburetors will generally not be better than what you have. Jon

Matt - I am not one pushing back, and in fact have electric pumps on ALL my collector vehicles (well, not the John Deeres), however; here is some information from my website: There are a number of reasons car enthusiasts look at electric fuel pumps. The most common being hard initial starting due to modern fuel evaporating from the carburetor overnight. Whatever the reason, there are a number of considerations when deciding to install an electric fuel pump: (1) Is the installation legal? Electric fuel pumps should be installed with the permanent wiring activated by something like an oil pressure switch, such that in the event of an accident and the driver becoming incapacitated, the electric fuel pump would automatically be turned off. Temporary wiring to a push button can be used to activate the pump and fill an empty carburetor. Release of the pump button will kill the pump, but there will be sufficient fuel in the carburetor bowl to start the engine and run until the oil pressure comes up to activate the permanent wiring. (2) Does the pressure produced by the pump fall within the parameters required by the carburetor? This question has more than one issue and should be considered carefully. Think of the difference in methodology of the electric pump vis-à-vis the stock mechanical fuel pump. The electric pump is more or less a constant pressure, constant volume pump (assuming the GPH of the pump is greater than the maximum demand of the engine). The stock mechanical pump is driven by the engine; therefore volume, and to a lesser extent, pressure, is a function of the RPM of the engine. Thus it is quite possible, if the wrong electric pump is chosen, to have a pump that floods the engine at idle, and has insufficient volume to maintain proper carburetor bowl lever at wide open throttle. (3) Because of (2) above, many enthusiasts opt for an adjustable inline regulator. Many of the less expensive regulators regulate pressure by regulating volume. Thus getting the pressure sufficiently low to not flood the engine at idle then limits the volume necessary to drive the vehicle at highway speeds. And just because the dial on the regulator states some number, do NOT ASSUME that the output pressure from the regulator is what the dial indicates. ALWAYS check the output pressure with a calibrated fuel pressure gauge. A return fuel line from a connection just before the carburetor back to the fuel tank is MUCH better at reducing idle flooding than a regulator. Summary – the electric pump IF properly selected and properly installed, may be of benefit to the enthusiast. Do it wrong, and one had better check with their insurance agent about fire BEFORE installing the pump! Jon.

Larry - you are using the wrong tool to remove the seat Before I describe this...................................it works with brass carbs and cast iron carbs (modified procedure) NOT WITH ZINC ALLOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Find the worst BRASS carb you have, so you can try the procedure. Get a pair of vise-grips, a five gallon bucket, a piece of foam rubber, 3 gallons of water, and an acetyline torch (NOT MAPP gas or propane). Put the foam rubber in the bottom of the bucket, and add the water. Grasp the carburetor body with the vise-grips. Turn on the torch. Heat the bottom (where the screw slot is located) of the seat with the torch. Exactly when the color of the flame changes from blue to a greenish-yellow, drop the casting into the bucket of water. Remove the casting from the water, and unscrew the seat. To make this post more generic, for cast iron carburetors: Do everything as above but DO NOT QUENCH IN THE WATER! Let the casting cool naturally. THE CAVIAT: NEVER EVEN THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF CONSIDERING HEATING EARLY ZINC ALLOY WITH A TORCH! IT CAN EXPLODE! Jon

Replacement needles AND seats come in the carburetor rebuilding kit. The trick of chucking the needle in a lathe (with a taper attachment) and then turning out the groove (if a groove is present) will work if the fuel valve seat screws in from the same direction as the needle is inserted, but will no work in this case. WHY? When one turns out the groove on the needle, one changes the overall length of the needle. To compensate, one must either bend the float arm (guaranteed to break on these early cast brass arms) OR place a thicker washer under the seat if the seat screwed in from the same direction as the needle. Since the seat in this carburetor screws in from the BOTTOM, it would be necessary to remove the seat and either find a thinner washer (good luck) OR chuck the seat in the lathe and remove the corresponding amount of metal from the seating area of the seat. Jon.

The spring loaded valve in the bowl cover is Marvel's early attempt at a "choke" Often referred to as a "flooder" valve; when one needed to start a cold engine in cold weather, one depressed the plunger, which depressed the float, and gasoline went everywhere! But it would create a richer starting mixture. It could also be used to flood the fuel valve and flush any dirt or other debris. Jon.

The following is copied from my website troubleshooting section, and was written for downdraft carburetors; but the cause is the same. Since the throttle shaft in an updraft is above the fuel level in the bowl, the fuel finds a different spot to leak: " FUEL LEAK BY THROTTLE SHAFT(S) A common complaint today is fuel dripping out of the throttle body by the throttle shaft AFTER the engine is switched off. While a number of issues may cause this problem, by far the most common issue is the volatility of modern fuel. Mechanical fuel pumps have a check valve which prevents fuel from moving back to the fuel tank. The problem is as follows: (1) After the engine is switched off, heat from the engine heats the fuel in the fuel line. (2) The expanding fuel (increased volatility) creates pressure in the fuel line from the pump to the carburetor. (3) The check valve prevents the fuel backing up through the fuel pump. (4) The pressure increases to a point the float/fuel valve combination in the carburetor cannot withstand the pressure. (5) An amount of fuel (usually from a teaspoon to a couple of tablespoons) flows into the fuel bowl of the carburetor. (6) This raises the fuel level in the bowl above the main discharge nozzle(s). (7) Fuel flows through the main discharge nozzle(s) and drips onto the throttle plate(s) which is/are closed, and exits out beside the throttle shaft(s) dripping onto the intake. Possible solutions: (1) IF POSSIBLE, AVOID ETHANOL LACED FUEL! Sometimes you can buy real gasoline at a marina (2) Buy the lowest octane name-brand fuel that does not ping or detonate in your engine (the higher grades often have more ethanol) (3) Install a “vapor return line” (take a look at return lines used on many factory air-conditioned cars) (4) Learn to live with the issue. HARD STARTING, COLD Difficult starting a vehicle that has been allowed to sit for a number of days (that will then start well the rest of the day) is often caused by modern fuel. Modern fuel begins to vaporize (evaporate) at a much lower temperature than fuel before the 1970’s. Once the engine is shut off, the fuel in the carburetor bowl begins to evaporate through the bowl vent. If there is no fuel in the carburetor, the engine will not start. Pumping the footfeed during this time simply prolongs the agony, as the accelerator pump will pump the fuel into the engine, but in amounts insufficient for starting. If you have this problem, try priming the carburetor by using an eyedropper and filling the carburetor bowl through the bowl vent prior to cranking the engine. If you do not wish to prime the engine, crank the engine for 15 to 20 seconds WITHOUT PUMPING. Then stop cranking, pump the footfeed 3 or 4 times, release it, and then reattempt to start the engine. Priming eliminates excessive wear on the starter. Another possible solution is the installation of an electric fuel pump. If an electric pump is installed, check local, state, and federal laws about wiring; and pick a pump with pressure not exceeding that of the original pump." Jon.

With the fuel pump, you don't have the Molotov Cocktail in the engine bay, but you also don't have the slow leak INTO the carb to replace evaporation. The is very little fuel in the bowl and it evaporates quickly. The easy way out is a 1~1.5 psi electric pump. If you cannot find a pump in this pressure range, then a regulator MUST be used with higher pressure. When buying the regulator, do NOT allow the thickness of your wallet to influence your decision. You need a regulator with an internal bypass, not one of the inline dial-types that regulate pressure by regulating volume. They are too much even if free! And there best use is if you have a rabbit problem in your garden, and a strong and accurate arm! But to answer your other question: acquire a spray tube from a can like WD-40, and a plastic squeeze ketchup or mustard container. Insert one end of the tube into the end of the squeeze part of the K/M container, and you can fill the bowl through that small vent. Jon.

Good luck on ever seeing one of those carburetors that is not cracked to pieces, let alone one in usable condition. Jon.

Ed - that one looks like a Schebler type T. Jon.

Zenith produced the passenger and truck type 63 (mentioned in my previous post with the Stromberg type SF). The marine version of the same type was the 263. Neither have been produced since the mid-1970's; however, Zenith did have some inventory of both up to about 15 or so years ago. I bought all of the existing 63/263 Zenith had in inventory when Zenith obsoleted (there was a political reason, which I will not discuss here) them. The major differences between the 63 and the 263 (not on all models) were some of the 263's were brass, some of the 263's had brass fittings, and some of the 263's had an air horn which turned slightly upward, rather than being straight. All three of these types come in 5 different S.A.E. flange sizes, plus all three have removable/replaceable venturii. Two keys to their use: (1) determine the S.A.E. flange size (adapters are for snake oil salesmen , unless it is a cross-flange required to properly orient the carburetor), and (2) determine the correct internal venturi size for the engine on which the carburetor will be placed. Once both are determined, and the correct carb is acquired (don't think one with be sufficient lucky to buy just any of the above and find the correct venturi on the shelf), the jetting becomes fairly easy. And the correct venturi can be fabricated, if one has a lathe with a taper attachment; but easier to start with the correct unit than fabricate parts. This link will enable one to determine (from the single barrel intake manifold) the S.A.E. carburetor size required. Stromberg SF/SFM series carbs and flange sizes The venturi size is a bit more complicated. Jon.