carbking

Most carburetor idle circuits work the same way. Fuel enters the idle jet through a metering orifice. This is the raw idle fuel. Air is introduced into the raw fuel via the bypass. At this point, the air and fuel are not well mixed. To better mix the air and fuel, this mixture is squeezed through a restriction. Squeezing the mixture causes acceleration of the mixture velocity, which aids in mixing. At varying times, Carter called the restriction a economiser and also a restrictor. So applying this information to the idle tubes on the various brass bowl carburetors: The lower hole just above the threaded plug is the jet size (a #62 drill on the 209S) The next hole(higher) is the bypass (#53 drill on the 209S) The economiser (or restictor) is quite obvious, it is the orifice through the necked-down portion of the tube (#56 drill on the 209S). To finish for those looking at newer carburetors, some idle circuits have an additional air bleed (called an idle air bleed) downline from the restrictor. The 209S does NOT have this feature. When present, the idle air bleed adds additional air to the idle air/fuel mix. There are a number of various repro parts being made off-shore, primarily for the Carter 150S used on 1930~1931 Chevrolets, as these are in sufficient demand to justify limited reproduction. I am unaware (that doesn't mean they don't exist) of any repro parts for the 209S other than those that interchange with the Chevrolet (bowls, floats, etc.) but not calibrated parts. The Chevrolet tube has a smaller orifice, and a larger economiser than the Plymouth. It should be obvious that if the bypass is larger than engineered, the mixture will be lean, and the idle jet orifice will need to be enlarged to compensate. I am aware of two really good rebuilders of the Chevrolet brass bowl carburetors. I do not know if either will work on others or not. These two go by the respective monikers of "chipper" and "junk yard dog" and may be found posting on the VCCA website. I have seen the work done by junk yard dog, and chipper has an excellent reputation, and has had for years. Although I have not personally seen his work. I can recommend both. Jon.

If you will check our website, you will see that we answer: (1) Questions requesting carburetor kit and price (2) Questions requesting carburetor availability (but not price, many we have only one). ALL OTHER QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ASKED VIA TELEPHONE Jon.

Dynaflash - thanks for the vote of confidence, but no longer have time to do rebuilds. AND, even if still doing rebuilds, would probably refuse to do so with your symptoms. Check the ignition system Check the fuel filter Check the ignition system Check the fuel pickup in the tank Check the ignition system Check the ignition key Check the ignition system And if all of the above fails, check the ignition system You didn't mention if you have a pertronix, but if you do, put in a set of new old stock points, and a new old stock condenser. Jon.

Tom - as I stated earlier, the better fix is to fix the cause. The heat stove is a workaround, how well it works depends on how well it was made, and where it is placed. But even a poorly made/placed heat stove with the original hot air choke is much better (opinion) than an electric if one has an older automatic transmission. Carter used to include a heat stove with new aftermarket carbs that were equipped with hot air chokes. This is where I got the idea some 50 years ago. But putting the electric choke on my wife's car convinced me. Jon.

At least in Missouri, spiders just LOVE to crawl into new old stock carburetors and build their nests Doing a general answer, rather than specific to your question: Carter and Rochester used velumoid gasket material. Velumoid was cut wet, and over time it would shrink. Holley also use a material that shrunk, but I do not know its name. MOSTLY, Stromberg and Zenith used gasket material that did not shrink; however, both did use a fiber based gasket material in the '20's and '30's that did shrink. Leather accelerator pumps in these older carburetors dry out. If soaked overnight in a light machine oil (neetsfoot oil, 3 n 1 oil, sewing machine oil) overnight, they will then be as good as new. (For those that ignore the preceding sentence, I know an old hill-billy that makes good repair kits ). If it were mine, I would disassemble into the major casting groups, carefully blow compressed air through each passage in BOTH directions, oil the accelerator pump (if new enough to have one with leather, Zenith often used a brass plunger, as did some others), install new gaskets, test the brass float in hot water, and reassemble the carburetor. I almost didn't post this since we sell repair kits, and I didn't wish the post to seem like an ad. Just in the for what its worth category, ANYONE can make a carburetor gasket. The FLAPS sell gasket material. If the casting is flat, the casting may be be placed on a scanner, and the result printed for a gasket pattern. If the gasket is not flat, the "hammer method" using a ball peen hammer may be used. While I don't generally suggest off-shore tools, cheap punch kits may be acquired to punch round holes. And a pair of fingernail scissors borrowed from your wife or girlfriend is very useful in cutting round areas of a gasket. Jon.

In general, folks drill ports and passages trying (generally unsuccessful) to improve the function of the carburetor. (1) Trying to convert the wrong carburetor into the right one (see the third line in my signature block ) (2) Major engine modifications requiring a different carburetor calibration (3) Racing As a really good rule-of-thumb for basically stock engines: the engineers that designed the carburetor knew what they were doing! The one I really like is the old wives tale about drilling jets, soldering them closed, and then redrilling to size. Actually this is an old husbands tale (old wives are not that stupid! ) To get an approximation of what gasoline will do to solder, one needs only to watch the national news each spring. Pay attention to the river levees that are eroding. Water is a liquid. Gasoline is a liquid. There are sometimes reasons to try various modifications other than the above; the forced use of ethanol is one of them. Jon.

Tom - totally agree! The electric choke is NOT a good option for anyone running a vehicle with an automatic transmission made before maybe 1975. The electric choke is timed to a pre-set actual time, rather than the engine temperature. I personally learned how bad this option is by "fixing" the defective hot air choke on my wife's car about 1975. She would start the car with the intention of going shopping, drive to the first stop sign (about 3 blocks), the engine would stall, and would NOT restart. Let us just say she was less than happy with this arrangement! The original hot air chokes are keyed to the temperature of the engine. When I correctly repaired the hot air choke and placed the electric choke in the round file, the issue completely disappeared, and my wife was again happy with the car. Generally, the cause of failure of a hot air choke is burnout of the heat stove (a tube pressed into the exhaust cross-over, a chamber in an exhaust manifold, etc.). Obviously, the better fix is to repair/replace the damaged part. However, it is quite easy to still make the hot air choke function correctly without doing the proper repair using this "workaround": Hot air choke heat stove Here is a bit of history of the automatic choke, and adjustment, for any who might have an interest: Automatic chokes Jon.

Ed and Rusty - thanks for the complements. John - the WCD Carter is a two-barrel carburetor, not a one-barrel. Newcomers to the hobby sometimes confuse one-barrel and two-barrel carbs as the air coming in comes in only one area, but the throttle body connected to the engine has two. I think we make kits for ALL of the WCD carbs, once they have been identified. Tell your friend to look for a roughly 1-inch triangular brass tag held on by one of the body screws holding the top casting to the center casting. IF THE TAG IS MISSING, AS THEY OFTEN ARE: Tell your friend to look for two numbers: (1) On the inside of the carburetor are two long (2 inches or so), slender (somewhat less than 1/8 inch in diameter) brass rods. Each will have a eyelet to attach the rod to a linkage. Just below the eyelet is a cast number. This number is not unique, but it is close. (2) On the underside of the cast iron lower casting (THE CARBURETOR MUST BE REMOVED) there may be a stamped number (Carter stamped one there, but a commercial carburetor rebuilder may have ground it off). Between the two numbers, we can identify the carburetor at least close enough to determine the correct rebuilding kits. NO OTHER NUMBERS ON THE CARBURETOR HAVE ANY MEANING THAT IS USEFUL IN THE IDENTIFICATION. Once your friend has either the tag number or the other two numbers he/she may contact me via telephone at 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.

Rochester type AA, thankfully discontinued after 2 years. Jon

Google "Then and Now Automotive". Good products, good people. Jon.

It appears to be the cheap Ball & Ball Carter downdraft favored by Chrysler Corp. I am not 100 percent on the identification. Obviously, identification would be a tad easier if the air cleaner were not present. Jon.

For those looking, there are two new old stock BB-1D carbs on ebay at this time at reasonable prices. Both appear to be new old stock and genuine. Take them apart, a thorough cleaning, a new kit, and should have a really good carb. Jon.

What is important first, is not what BB-1 you should have; rather what BB-1 you currently have. And the word "complete" has different meanings to different folks. I have had a few folks in the past figure if they supply the tag, then a complete kit would have everything else, including the proper castings! All levity aside, as stated in my last post, Carter made 68 different type BB-1 carburetors. If one buys a BB-1 6J2 new old stock off of Ebay for $5.00, one still CANNOT turn it into a BB-1A or BB-1D; the castings are different! Yes, I know they all LOOK the same! Which means a model T Ford looks like a Silver Ghost (both have 4 wheels). OK, sorry, I said I was done with levity. If one buys a 517s (fairly common type BB-1), and one has an automotive machine shop, one can make it close to the BB-1A. Or one can buy the necessary parts assuming one doesn't mind throwing several hundred dollars at the parts vendor. Or it is possible it can be made to function with less work/$. And before someone accuses me of this post being an ad to sell the BB-1A; let me assure everyone that I am sold completely out of the universal BB-1's, and have been for years. I know "bargains" occasionally surface on Ebay, but always nice to know exactly what you are getting before you get it; and pretty much imperative to know what you have before you try to use it. Oh, and our kits for the BB-1 have always included the pump spring, vacuum piston spring, and power valve spring. Off the BB-1 for awhile. My records show that the Victory 6 was a 208 CID engine using a cross-flange carburetor; and the DA 6 was a 208 CID engine with a straight-flange carburetor. Are these two the same engine with a different intake? Will the cross-flange intake fit instead of the straight-flange intake? Up through 1928, the Victory 6, in addition to using the zinc alloy Stromberg TX-2, also used the BRASS Detroit Lubricator. The Detroit Lubricator is close to original (off 1 year), is calibrated for the Dodge engine from the factory, and when professionally rebuilt, virtually bullet-proof! Another POSSIBLE option if the intake manifolds interchange (and I am sold out of these as well!). Jon.

Lots of folks have the mistaken idea that steel needles are uneffected by ethanol: Steel needles My guess is old fuel. Lots of folks don't like starting fluid, but I have personally used it for over 50 years with no issues. I would suggest a helper to crank over the engine for you. While it is being cranked, short squirts of starting fluid (NEVER when the engine is not turning over). With new wires and plugs, and spark at each cylinder, it should start. If it starts, run it at a high idle until warm. Then it may idle on the old gas. I had a similar issue with a low compression tractor that sat all winter. Wouldn't start cold on old gas. Get it started on fluid and run at high idle until hot, then would start on the old gas, as long as the engine was hot. That "45 day shelf life" posted by another gentleman above is generous! Jon.

The Carter type BB-1 carbs CAN be somewhat challenging to identify; especially since they have been in favor with old car enthusiasts for many years. Carburetors get "married" (others use a different term) by enthusiasts who are trying to make the carb fit on a different engine, or enthusiasts who know no better, or (worse case) some vendors selling carbs whose sales pitch "here is what you need, what do you need it to fit?". As to the accelerator pump, no offense meant to anyone, but absolutely no reason the accelerator pump should not work. There is a caged inlet check valve, a caged outlet check valve, a pump cylinder, a piston, an inlet passage, and a discharge passage. Rarely (but it does happen) one of the passageways becomes clogged in a carb that sits at the bottom of a pond for 150 years (give or take a year or so) Passageways should always be checked during the rebuild. Unlike the check valves in many carburetors, the check valves in the BB-1 are caged, in a threaded enclosure. Generally, they may be cleaned, and reused. If not, unscrew the old one, and replace it with new. New ones are available. The pump plunger is brass, it does not wear out; but new ones are available if one is somehow damaged. The "fly in the ointment" generally is the pump spring, which will over time fatigue. New springs come in the good rebuilding kits. I would suggest ALWAYS replacing the spring if you rebuild the carburetor. Carbs that sit unused for a long period of time, even on a running car, can have the piston stick; especially if the pump spring is old. If this is the case, remove the pump pivot screw from the pump operating linkage, and pull the pump UP (no, you don't need to disassemble the carb). Pulling the pump upward will break loose a pump that has stuck from evaporated fuel. Here is a link to a PDF file of the original Carter service instructions. I have written authority to publish this material. It may be used, downloaded, printed, whatever. Carter BB-1 factory service instructions The BB-1 ranks third highest on my list of replacement updraft carburetors, with a numeric score of 9.25 out of a possible 10. The Stromberg SF/SFM series, and the Zenith 63/263 series are tied for first and second with a numeric score of 9.5 out of 10. A 9.25 is still an "A", almost an "A+". Just wish Carter had used a vacuum accelerator pump like the Stromberg and Zenith models. The most common issue with the BB-1 is probably the fuel inlet valve. Fuel inlet valves came in three different thread configurations for O.E. (based on what the O.E. company wanted for a fuel line fitting) AND several different orifice sizes from 0.085 inch to 0.118 inch. The 0.118 valve (used for gravity feed) flows 93 percent more fuel than the 0.085 (used with some of the earlier Chevrolet trucks with fuel pumps). Even the carbs used on the largest Chevrolet engine (261 CID) used a 0.101 orifice with a fuel pump. The mechanical advantage of the float is such that, even the carbs with fuel pumps, need to have pressure NO MORE than 3 psi. Carter produced 68 different type BB-1 carbs. They did not make this many different simply for the engineers to have something to do. When migrating an O.E. carb to a different than stock application, the enthusiast becomes the engineer, and is responsible for his/her homework. Jon

Would be interested in knowing the "DV" number cast somewhere on the carburetor, for my records. Thanks. Jon.

Quote "After some research, I asked my wife for an ultrasonic cleaner for Christmas. I wanted to be able to clean carbs when needed. My research, I found out that you can either use a commercial grade carb cleaner designed for ultrasonic cleaners at about $100 a gallon. The unit I got hold 10 liters. That means at least $200 to fill it with parts." Ouch!!!!! I use water, with Dawn dishwater shop. Takes care of dirt and grease. Won't dissolve carbon, but a little automatic choke cleaner, followed by the Dawn will. Jon.

I don't own one, but perhaps this may help: Graham Brothers Serial Numbers Jon.

May be able to help. Contact me during normal business hours with the make and identification of your carburetor. Jon.

I have very little data on Kiblinger. There is a short blurb in "Standard Catalog of American Cars" (page 741) showing Kiblinger from 1907-1909 with models A (4 HP), B and C (6 HP), and D, E, and F (10 HP) 2 cylinder air cooled engines. There is a photocopy of an ad on Wiki showing the Kiblinger as a 12 HP, no model given. The surviving Kingston literature is very incomplete, especially on automobile applications (much better on tractors), but has no reference to Kiblinger. There is no information in either the Standard Catalog as to engine displacement (same size for 4 through 12 HP? doubtful) or carburetor information. As stated earlier, the picture on conceptcarz's site shows a Schebler model D, but nothing about the Kiblinger model, HP, engine size, etc. Just speculating that different size engines may have been used, and different carbs may have been used on the different size engines. The most common carbs found in the USA in the 1907~1909 period were Holley Brothers, Kingston, and Schebler, the Schebler being more complex, and more expensive than the other two. Unless you can find a picture of your exact model and engine from the 1907~1909 period, probably impossible to say for certain what was used. Which also means it will be impossible to prove you are wrong if you pick one. If you have such a picture, you might post it, and someone might recognize it, as I did the Schebler on the car on conceptcarz. Today, the Holley Brothers and especially the Kingston from the 1907~1909 era are very scarce and expensive due to the Model T Ford folks. Both Holley and Kingston made visible changes (totally different carbs) in 1910. While the Schebler D was produced from about 1903 to post WWII. Difficult to differentiate a Schebler D from say 1907 from one produced in 1935, thus the Schebler D is much more readily available and less cost. Jon.

There is no reference to a Kiblinger in the surviving Kingston literature. The carburetor pictured on the Kiblinger on the conceptcarz is a Schebler model D, probably with a gate valve throttle. Jon.

Robert Burchill, the owner of Burchill Antique Auto Parts, listed as the author, has been tuning vehicles in the clouds now for several years. Robert was adamant about using new old stock parts. In his later years, he underwent knee replacement. The next time we talked, during his recovery period, I asked him if he used new old stock parts in the replacement surgery. I think it made his day. He, and his wife Harriett, are both sorely missed. Jon.

Not sure why one would add the complexity of dual points unless trailered race car. If you should decide on an electronic whizbang, upgrade from your generator to an alternator FIRST. If you decide not to get the alternator, and do get the electronic whizbang, don't call when you have an erratic or no idle. Jon.

Matt - a handheld infrared pyrometer is not overly expensive. Jon.

Nothing wrong with most computers that cannot be cured by their morning cup of coffee.......................down the keyboard! Jon.