carbking

Lincoln did not use Johnson, they used Stromberg, and it was an excellent carburetor, absolutely no need to replace. We have not yet found an updraft that will function in place of the Johnson because of the rainbow manifold, at least on the later cars. At one time we offered a pair of Zenith for the V-12 and V-16 (no rainbow). Personally, I if had a 1925 or earlier, I would at least try to see if one of the Chevy Carter BB-1's would clear. The flange arrangement is different on the 1926 and newer such that an adapter would be required; but the late Chevy BB-1 should bolt to the 1925 and earlier, IF there is sufficient clearance. While I like to keep the old cars stock if possible, I simply cannot recommend using a Johnson on a vehicle that is driven. I would rather have a non-original carburetor than an original molten stack of metal. Some of the zinc ally carburetors (the Stromberg U-2 is one) can be, and has been recast in better metal. Recasting the Johnson would only make for a more expensive Johnson. I am certain that someone of Ed's talents could keep one running, at least for awhile, but I still wouldn't ride with him if he were using a Johnson Jon.

Padgett - it wasn't a two-barrel! The two holes are connected to an 90 degree adapter that then is connected to a Carter type YH sidedraft carb (like the one I pictured for the 1953 Corvette). The carbs would have been Carter AFB's, either the 3443s (750 CFM) or the 3444s (675 CFM). There are some pictures of the complete setup with the adapter and the YH floating around. Google Pontiac bathtub. It should come up somewhere. Jon.

Ed - as time permits, I will add more exhibits; although I don't have a lot for Johnson. Johnson did offer some useful "glove box pamphlets" that gave the driver adjustment information, but doubt seriously that it worked. I have a difficult time getting enthused about a carburetor company that put an electrical resistance heating plate in the carburetor bowl on some models to preheat the fuel! I do have a Fish carburetor to picture, and pictures of the very rare Pogue carburetor. Also have a Kingston two-barrel prototype for the flathead Ford that was never produced. And a bunch of other stuff. The initial exhibits are just from pictures that I already have on my computer. Jon.

Announcing the opening of The Carburetor Shop Virtual Carburetor Museum. Additional exhibits will be added, time permitting.http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Car...ual_museum.htmJon.

It was spring-dampened. Its function was to increase A/F velocity when the throttle was quickly opened. Think of the "automatic throttle plate" like the auxiliary air valve on a modern Carter AFB secondary. The driver can open the throttles wide open with the footfeed, but the secondary will not open completely until the engine had increased speed to where it could ingest the additional air/fuel. The "automatic throttle plate" works exactly the same way, only opening (assuming correct adjustment) as quickly as the engine can use the air/fuel. The restricted opening keeps the air/fuel stream velocity at the desired level. Air velocity is one of the most important elements in carburetor metering. And I still don't like the carburetor! As far as adjustment: try rotating the adjuster until the automatic throttle plate just touches closed with no tension; then rotate another 1/2 turn (180 degrees) and tighten the lock screw. Jon.

When you get your mesh, first make a good sharp 90 degree bend by bending over the edge of a piece of metal. Then, work that around the end of a piece of pipe to form the curve. As to carb kits in general: 70 years ago, the genuine Carter kits included the screen, as well as the metering rod, the metering rod jet, the idle jet, and some of the linkage. Such a kit today would probably sell for several hundred dollars, but it wouldn't sell. 50 years ago, the FLAPS started complaining about the necessity to stock so many different kits, and the "Jiffy" kit or "clean-out kit" was born. Typically, the kit manufacturers did a spread-sheet of every carburetor using the same pump diameter and approximate length, and every fuel valve with the same physical dimensions (regardless of the orifice size) and then added all of the gaskets, check balls and pin springs that fit all of these carburetors. This would become a clean-out kit. Should you be interested in one of our kits, please call during normal telephone hours. I don't feel this is the place to describe ours. EDIT: got my years wrong. Replace 70 by 85. Replace 50 by 65. Sorry. Jon.

If you bought your kit from us, and if you are willing to spend the $8.10 priority mail (within the 48 states), will send you a screen. I don't know the mesh size, but have a decent inventory of N.O.S. screens. Jon.

Ed - I tried JB Weld once some 40 years ago to fix a carburetor crack. But my policy has always been to test any product unknown to me before using it on a customers carburetor. So after repairing the crack, I put the entire casting in a container of fuel, and sealed it. Three months later, I opened the container to find the JB Weld had softened. But the early pot metal, depending on company, before from about 1931 to 1936, will continue to fail; so even if the epoxy did not soften, the use of the epoxy to fix defective pot metal for the long term is a terrible idea. If the vehicle is a show-car, then spend the money to have new castings cast and machined from some more stable metal. If it is a driver, just change the carburetor to one without built-in failure. Jon

"Can you describe why a solid vs. sequential dual quad carb linkage is superior? " Better average cylinder fill density. "Would this be something easily done to a stock Super Wildcat ('64-'66) car? What is the downside to the stock setup?" NO! Do not try it with the stock carburetors! Possibly it could be done by heavily modifying the stock carburetors. The downside of the stock dual quad is the cylinder fill density on the front cylinders is leaner (except WOT) than the rear cylinders. This will cause a slight imbalance in the engine. What are the percentages? Don't know; but I have been doing solid linkage on customer aftermarket setups for almost 50 years, and, so far (where is the "knock on wood" emoji?) everyone has been happy. There is a noticeable difference in driveability in city driving (less than WOT operation). My shop truck will idle at 600 RPM, and, once the engine is at operating temperature; the throttle may be mashed from idle in first, second, or third gear with zero hesitation. In fourth gear, RPM must be at 1000 or more before mashing the throttle, or the engine will stall. Since the secondaries on both carbs open as needed, one cannot even tell when the secondaries open. When the footfeed is mashed, just raw power from idle to shift point. And the truck gets somewhat better fuel economy at 70 MPH than it did with the single four-barrel (average cylinder fill density). And yes, I am using genuine Carter AFB carbs (that have been "slightly" modified). Jon.

Matt - Jim is absolutely correct about the original Schebler. Jon.

OK, a bit more time this morning to answer than in my first post. I have this mental image of someone trying to start the car by pumping the footfeed 😜 The guy is sitting in the driver's seat, gripping the steering wheel so hard that there is blood on his palms from his fingernails, pulling back on the steering wheel so hard it is warped, and pumping the footfeed as fast as he can move his ankle. The air in front of the gentleman is blue and moving rapidly. The guy's face is about the same color as a fire engine, and the ammeter is pegged (empathetic blood pressure gauge ) OK, what has happened and probably happening. Modern fuel evaporates. I have a similar setup to the OP in my shop truck (dual Carter AFB's) except my linkage is set up solid instead of sequential for much improved performance, both in driveability and fuel economy . Several years ago, I had the same issue, and after the engine had sat long enough that I didn't burn my fingers, I pulled the airhorn from one carb. The bowls were bone dry! The heat from the engine evaporated the fuel that fast (that 390 produces a LOT of heat). That is when I installed the electric fuel pump. I mounted my pump right at the tank to supply the working original fuel pump (which acts as a pressure regulator, so no external regulator is required). I have a push-button switch on the dash. I can manually energize the pump to fill the bowls for starting. Once the bowls are full, release the push button, pull the choke button (I have manual chokes on both carbs), and start the engine. Once I have oil pressure, the permanent wiring on the fuel pump energizes, and the pump runs as long as there is both ignition on, and oil pressure. Removing either ignition or pressure will kill the pump's operation. The above is my solution. When the bowls are dry, the carburetor (obviously) cannot function. When one pumps the footfeed madly, the accelerator pump will begin functioning as soon as there is sufficient fuel in the bowl to cover the pump inlet check valve (screwed into the base of the pump cylinder), BUT THE FUEL LEVEL IN THE BOWL IS TOO LOW FOR EITHER THE IDLE CIRCUIT OR THE MAIN CIRCUIT TO FUNCTION! So fuel is pumped into the engine, SLOWING the ability of the fuel pump to fill the carburetor bowls to a level where the normal circuits can function. And to dispel one myth often suggested: it is quite impossible for MOST (not all) carburetor bowls to drain back to the tank (unless the owner parks the vehicle on its roof ) Most carburetors have the fuel valve HIGHER than the fuel level in the bowl(s), thus fuel cannot flow backward through the fuel valves. The notable exception to this (there are others) is the Rochester Q-jet. However, Rochester did address the issue in two ways: (1) with the internal fuel filter behind the fuel inlet nut getting an internal check valve, and (2) the use of solid fuel valve seats rather than "windowed" fuel valve seats on some models. Also, Q-jets from 1965 to 1967 had the pressed in well plugs, which could leak. Rochester fixed that issue in 1968 with the spun plug. The carburetor that spawned the term "carburetor leaking down" was the Holley model AA-1 (a.k.a. Holley 94). The economiser valve (a.k.a. power valve) was located in the BOTTOM of the bowl, with a direct passage to the intake manifold. The valve had a neopreme component. A carburetor backfire would normally kill the valve, which opened a direct passage to the intake, and the carburetor WOULD "leak down". Over the last 20 years, I have talked hundreds (perhaps thousands) of prospective customers out of buying either a carburetor kit or a rebuilt carburetor for this issue. One just has to learn how to deal with the fuel. And while ethanol deserves a lot of bad-mouthing, this is not an ethanol issue. There are other aromatics in the fuel which have raised the Reid vapor pressure of the fuel over the years. If anything, the ethanol slightly lowers the Reid vapor pressure (ever have the liquid in your Jim Beam glass empty itself by evaporation?). Jon.

Pumping while attempting to start is self-defeating. As mentioned by others, the fuel evaporates out of the bowls. Pumping while attempting to start will give enough fuel to the engine to fire but not stay running, plus the bowls are not being filled. Again, as mentioned by others: (1) Fill bowls with squeeze body or eye-dropper through the vents. OR (2) Crank the engine WITHOUT PUMPING for about 10 seconds, then stop cranking, pump the footfeed three times, and start the engine. OR (3) Electric pump Jon

We have a checklist of questions we ask carburetor customers (or prospective carburetor customers) when they call us. Once, the first question we asked those with idle issues was have you done a compression test. Now, the first question asked those with idle issues is has someone installed an electronic conversion in the distributor. If yes, the second question is do you still have the points and condenser to reinstall, at least for testing purposes. Jon.

I know nothing about the company you mentioned with the rebuilt carburetor, so the following is a general statement: Since the 1950's, the commercial carburetor rebuilders have "grouped" carburetors together to reduce inventory. To accomplish this, holes were drilled to accomodate tubes for various vacuum requirements on the various carburetors grouped, parts often are used from various carburetors in the grouping, and the final calibration is set to be the richest of the carburetors in the group. To give an example: some time ago, had a customer with a 1965 GTO and a commercially rebuilt carb that ran, but not overly well. I had him get a lot of numbers on the carburetor, and was able to determine that he had a 1963 main body, a 1965 top casting, primary clusters from 2 different years (don't remember which), and a calibration for a 421 with automatic and A/C (instead of the 389 with standard transmission). As stated earlier, I know nothing about the company that you mentioned; but the odds are that the carburetor you have is better than the rebuilt carburetor you will buy. The "core" charge probably is not a lot; just makes good sense to keep what you have. Jon.

BEFORE buying a different carburetor: Take the airhorn off of the existing carburetor. Use a paper towel or rag, and remove ALL of the fuel Put the airhorn back on the carburetor. Find a ketchup or mustard squeeze body, empty the food? contents, clean, and fill with FRESH gasoline. With the squeeze body, fill the carburetor through the bowl vent. Now try starting the engine again with starting fuel. I believe it will start, and idle about 10~15 seconds on the fresh gasoline. If it does, drain the tank. And as Bloo stated in the post above, if you must have a different carburetor, KEEP your old one! Jon.

As to the availability of parts: To my knowledge, only three companies offered parts for the brass bowl carburetors back in the day: (1) Carter (obviously) (2) Standard Hygrade (3) Hawk Products Hawk is probably less well-known than the other two. Hawk was located in Indianapolis, and later made carburetor parts for more modern carburetors under the name Sherman. Again, most of the aftermarket stuff was keyed to Chevrolet. Jon.

Most carburetor idle circuits work the same way. Fuel enters the idle jet through a metering orifice. This is the raw idle fuel. Air is introduced into the raw fuel via the bypass. At this point, the air and fuel are not well mixed. To better mix the air and fuel, this mixture is squeezed through a restriction. Squeezing the mixture causes acceleration of the mixture velocity, which aids in mixing. At varying times, Carter called the restriction a economiser and also a restrictor. So applying this information to the idle tubes on the various brass bowl carburetors: The lower hole just above the threaded plug is the jet size (a #62 drill on the 209S) The next hole(higher) is the bypass (#53 drill on the 209S) The economiser (or restictor) is quite obvious, it is the orifice through the necked-down portion of the tube (#56 drill on the 209S). To finish for those looking at newer carburetors, some idle circuits have an additional air bleed (called an idle air bleed) downline from the restrictor. The 209S does NOT have this feature. When present, the idle air bleed adds additional air to the idle air/fuel mix. There are a number of various repro parts being made off-shore, primarily for the Carter 150S used on 1930~1931 Chevrolets, as these are in sufficient demand to justify limited reproduction. I am unaware (that doesn't mean they don't exist) of any repro parts for the 209S other than those that interchange with the Chevrolet (bowls, floats, etc.) but not calibrated parts. The Chevrolet tube has a smaller orifice, and a larger economiser than the Plymouth. It should be obvious that if the bypass is larger than engineered, the mixture will be lean, and the idle jet orifice will need to be enlarged to compensate. I am aware of two really good rebuilders of the Chevrolet brass bowl carburetors. I do not know if either will work on others or not. These two go by the respective monikers of "chipper" and "junk yard dog" and may be found posting on the VCCA website. I have seen the work done by junk yard dog, and chipper has an excellent reputation, and has had for years. Although I have not personally seen his work. I can recommend both. Jon.

If you will check our website, you will see that we answer: (1) Questions requesting carburetor kit and price (2) Questions requesting carburetor availability (but not price, many we have only one). ALL OTHER QUESTIONS SHOULD BE ASKED VIA TELEPHONE Jon.

Dynaflash - thanks for the vote of confidence, but no longer have time to do rebuilds. AND, even if still doing rebuilds, would probably refuse to do so with your symptoms. Check the ignition system Check the fuel filter Check the ignition system Check the fuel pickup in the tank Check the ignition system Check the ignition key Check the ignition system And if all of the above fails, check the ignition system You didn't mention if you have a pertronix, but if you do, put in a set of new old stock points, and a new old stock condenser. Jon.

Tom - as I stated earlier, the better fix is to fix the cause. The heat stove is a workaround, how well it works depends on how well it was made, and where it is placed. But even a poorly made/placed heat stove with the original hot air choke is much better (opinion) than an electric if one has an older automatic transmission. Carter used to include a heat stove with new aftermarket carbs that were equipped with hot air chokes. This is where I got the idea some 50 years ago. But putting the electric choke on my wife's car convinced me. Jon.

At least in Missouri, spiders just LOVE to crawl into new old stock carburetors and build their nests Doing a general answer, rather than specific to your question: Carter and Rochester used velumoid gasket material. Velumoid was cut wet, and over time it would shrink. Holley also use a material that shrunk, but I do not know its name. MOSTLY, Stromberg and Zenith used gasket material that did not shrink; however, both did use a fiber based gasket material in the '20's and '30's that did shrink. Leather accelerator pumps in these older carburetors dry out. If soaked overnight in a light machine oil (neetsfoot oil, 3 n 1 oil, sewing machine oil) overnight, they will then be as good as new. (For those that ignore the preceding sentence, I know an old hill-billy that makes good repair kits ). If it were mine, I would disassemble into the major casting groups, carefully blow compressed air through each passage in BOTH directions, oil the accelerator pump (if new enough to have one with leather, Zenith often used a brass plunger, as did some others), install new gaskets, test the brass float in hot water, and reassemble the carburetor. I almost didn't post this since we sell repair kits, and I didn't wish the post to seem like an ad. Just in the for what its worth category, ANYONE can make a carburetor gasket. The FLAPS sell gasket material. If the casting is flat, the casting may be be placed on a scanner, and the result printed for a gasket pattern. If the gasket is not flat, the "hammer method" using a ball peen hammer may be used. While I don't generally suggest off-shore tools, cheap punch kits may be acquired to punch round holes. And a pair of fingernail scissors borrowed from your wife or girlfriend is very useful in cutting round areas of a gasket. Jon.

In general, folks drill ports and passages trying (generally unsuccessful) to improve the function of the carburetor. (1) Trying to convert the wrong carburetor into the right one (see the third line in my signature block ) (2) Major engine modifications requiring a different carburetor calibration (3) Racing As a really good rule-of-thumb for basically stock engines: the engineers that designed the carburetor knew what they were doing! The one I really like is the old wives tale about drilling jets, soldering them closed, and then redrilling to size. Actually this is an old husbands tale (old wives are not that stupid! ) To get an approximation of what gasoline will do to solder, one needs only to watch the national news each spring. Pay attention to the river levees that are eroding. Water is a liquid. Gasoline is a liquid. There are sometimes reasons to try various modifications other than the above; the forced use of ethanol is one of them. Jon.

Tom - totally agree! The electric choke is NOT a good option for anyone running a vehicle with an automatic transmission made before maybe 1975. The electric choke is timed to a pre-set actual time, rather than the engine temperature. I personally learned how bad this option is by "fixing" the defective hot air choke on my wife's car about 1975. She would start the car with the intention of going shopping, drive to the first stop sign (about 3 blocks), the engine would stall, and would NOT restart. Let us just say she was less than happy with this arrangement! The original hot air chokes are keyed to the temperature of the engine. When I correctly repaired the hot air choke and placed the electric choke in the round file, the issue completely disappeared, and my wife was again happy with the car. Generally, the cause of failure of a hot air choke is burnout of the heat stove (a tube pressed into the exhaust cross-over, a chamber in an exhaust manifold, etc.). Obviously, the better fix is to repair/replace the damaged part. However, it is quite easy to still make the hot air choke function correctly without doing the proper repair using this "workaround": Hot air choke heat stove Here is a bit of history of the automatic choke, and adjustment, for any who might have an interest: Automatic chokes Jon.

Ed and Rusty - thanks for the complements. John - the WCD Carter is a two-barrel carburetor, not a one-barrel. Newcomers to the hobby sometimes confuse one-barrel and two-barrel carbs as the air coming in comes in only one area, but the throttle body connected to the engine has two. I think we make kits for ALL of the WCD carbs, once they have been identified. Tell your friend to look for a roughly 1-inch triangular brass tag held on by one of the body screws holding the top casting to the center casting. IF THE TAG IS MISSING, AS THEY OFTEN ARE: Tell your friend to look for two numbers: (1) On the inside of the carburetor are two long (2 inches or so), slender (somewhat less than 1/8 inch in diameter) brass rods. Each will have a eyelet to attach the rod to a linkage. Just below the eyelet is a cast number. This number is not unique, but it is close. (2) On the underside of the cast iron lower casting (THE CARBURETOR MUST BE REMOVED) there may be a stamped number (Carter stamped one there, but a commercial carburetor rebuilder may have ground it off). Between the two numbers, we can identify the carburetor at least close enough to determine the correct rebuilding kits. NO OTHER NUMBERS ON THE CARBURETOR HAVE ANY MEANING THAT IS USEFUL IN THE IDENTIFICATION. Once your friend has either the tag number or the other two numbers he/she may contact me via telephone at 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.

Rochester type AA, thankfully discontinued after 2 years. Jon