RivNut Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I just talked to my neighbor who owns a motorcycle shop about making replacement cables for the turn signal mechanism for the 63 through 65 Rivieras. He thinks that he can make a replacement but he needs an old one to look at. If anyone has one, broken but complete, get in touch with me. Thanks, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Ed.......order one for a Chevrolet Impala and compare it to a Riviera one....they might be the same or be made to work with little effort. Someone needs to do this....I nominate Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Haven't tried one but a Corvair appears to look/be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Anyone got a pic of the cable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Tim called and he'll be sending one to me. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWB Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Not sure if this helps, a $20. new 61-62 Impala signal cable: http://www.impalas.com/1961-62-impalaturn-signal-cable-stainless.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 They need to make some kind of game out of that Impala parts magnifier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixxer Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said: They need to make some kind of game out of that Impala parts magnifier! lol I had the same problem, I'm on mobile and it was like playing angry birds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, JZRIV said: Anyone got a pic of the cable? Edited January 6, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) How does this cable fail? Does the cable break? Does a bracket break? Does the cable separate from the bracket? Edited January 7, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 11 hours ago, KongaMan said: How does this cable fail? Does the cable break? Does a bracket break? Does the cable separate from the bracket? The cable end is anchored by the sheathing via a crimped on bracket. The sheathing breaks at the anchor point allowing the entire cable assembly to move when the tilt wheel is moved. When that movement occurs it changes the neutral position of the turn signal switch which interrupts the circuit for the brake lights in the switch. The end result is that the brake lights will work when the tilt wheel is in the driving position because the contacts for the brake lights in the switch, which is now in a neutral position, are in alignment. But, when the tilt wheel is placed in the "up" position, the cable assembly moves along with it because the sheathing is no longer anchored in a fixed position, pulling the turn signal switch off the neutral position, resulting in the brake lights or at least one of the brake lights not working because the contacts for the brake lights in the switch are no longer in alignment. Clear as mud? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 1 hour ago, 1965rivgs said: The cable end is anchored by the sheathing via a crimped on bracket. The sheathing breaks at the anchor point allowing the entire cable assembly to move when the tilt wheel is moved. When that movement occurs it changes the neutral position of the turn signal switch which interrupts the circuit for the brake lights in the switch. The end result is that the brake lights will work when the tilt wheel is in the driving position because the contacts for the brake lights in the switch, which is now in a neutral position, are in alignment. But, when the tilt wheel is placed in the "up" position, the cable assembly moves along with it because the sheathing is no longer anchored in a fixed position, pulling the turn signal switch off the neutral position, resulting in the brake lights or at least one of the brake lights not working because the contacts for the brake lights in the switch are no longer in alignment. Clear as mud? Tom Yes it is actually. So, if I were able to get this cable reproduced, what changes would need to be made so that the problem is solved? Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) Is the sheathing just plastic or is it plastic around an inner wound metal core (like a bike cable)? In either case, it seems that the difficulty is in replicating the bracket/clamp. If the old one can be salvaged, that would be a tremendous help. If you can find out who makes the similar parts mentioned earlier, you might find that a workable bracket already exists. Might be worth $50 to order an Impala and a Corvair cable just to see how they compare. You can get cut-to-length bike cables anywhere. If you can replace the wound cable with a solid wire, you'll have that part done easily enough. At that point, all you have to do is figure out how to anchor it in place. A hollow sleeve and a set screw might do it. But again, you might look to the bike industry for inspiration and/or a solution. Edited January 8, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD63RIV Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Here's a few pictures of the turn signal cable to show length. The mounting tabs/brackets have been removed from this cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 The one that Tom sent to me arrived in the mail today. It has a broken sheath and is missing one bracket on the end where the sheath is broken. I'll get a chance in the next couple of days to get it to my neighbor and see what he thinks about reproducing it. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 What's the diameter of the inner wire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 hour ago, RivNut said: The one that Tom sent to me arrived in the mail today. It has a broken sheath and is missing one bracket on the end where the sheath is broken. I'll get a chance in the next couple of days to get it to my neighbor and see what he thinks about reproducing it. Ed As previously stated "I'll get a chance in the next couple of days....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 One might think the cable should be a piece of cake (it's just spring wire in a sheath). You could likely make a whole bunch of them with a 2x4, two nails, and a set of lineman's pliers. The difficulty would be in reproducing the brackets. But if the brackets don't break and can be reused... The same technique could be used for repairing other control cables, like the heater valve (if you tried to push it open and the cable bent because the valve was stuck). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenugent Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I made both brackets out of sheet steel,gauge ?Be careful not to break top pivot ball (plastic),l did and had to make one out of a kids jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD63RIV Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I have run across 2 different designs on this cable. The first design was the wire inside of a simple plastic sheath. The second design was the wire inside of a sheath that had a metal spiral inner sheath with a plastic outer covering. The second design seems to hold up better than the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 I took the cable out of the package this afternoon and took a closer look at it. The wire itself is pretty thin and it's wound on both ends so that it slips over a pin. The sheath reminds me of the air hose line that you use for air shocks; in other words, it's very thin and pretty brittle. Perhaps a repo would be better if the sheath were a wound cable. ??? What I'd like to know now is how big is the area where the cable lies. Is there room for a sheath with a larger circumference / diameter? Is there a hole or two it fits through that limits its size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, RivNut said: I took the cable out of the package this afternoon and took a closer look at it. The wire itself is pretty thin and it's wound on both ends so that it slips over a pin. The sheath reminds me of the air hose line that you use for air shocks; in other words, it's very thin and pretty brittle. Perhaps a repo would be better if the sheath were a wound cable. ??? What I'd like to know now is how big is the area where the cable lies. Is there room for a sheath with a larger circumference / diameter? Is there a hole or two it fits through that limits its size? I'd think you can make the sheath as large as you want as long as the brackets can crimp around it. There are brackets on both ends; any opening the cable goes through has to be large enough for a bracket to pass, no? Many bike cables have a sheath made of a wound core with a plastic shell. You can buy that by the mile, and one might guess it would be perfectly adequate for such a low-tension task. If you've got calipers, you can measure that OD of both the sheath and the wire. That should tell you if bike cable will work. And remember, bikes use different size cables for brakes and gears. FYI, the gear cables on my mountain bike measure .215" sheath and .049" cable; the brake cables measure .198" and .061", respectively. I can't imagine than flipping a turn signal switch takes a bigger cable than pulling a bike brake. So, maybe try this: get yourself a cheap brake cable at any bike shop. Cut the sheath to 16-1/4". Buy 1/4 lb. of .060" spring wire (that's ~25'). Straighten 2' of wire, run it through the cable, put a coil on each end 18-3/8" apart, then cut off the excess. Crimp the old brackets to your new cable. Total investment (excluding shipping, etc.) less than $10. Edited January 12, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 My neighbor owns his own bike shop and makes his own cables; I'm just going to show him what I want and leave the rest to him. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, RivNut said: My neighbor owns his own bike shop and makes his own cables; I'm just going to show him what I want and leave the rest to him. Ed Where's the fun in that? More seriously, if you have a set of calipers, can you measure the inner wire, the OD of the sheath, and the ID of the coils? As alluded to earlier, I need a new heater control cable. If I can make a turn signal cable as a proof of concept, I'd be fairly confident that the heater cable would be doable. Edited January 12, 2017 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 The wire for the heater cable would be too thick & not have the flexibility needed used with a tilt column. Ed's idea of a bike cable is possible. Has anyone actually checked out the Corvair cable??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 The heater control cables are much heavier and the ones I've seen have an adjuster built into the sheath for making adjustment to the length. You'd probably be better off finding a good used one. Gene Guarnere should have one. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, RivNut said: The heater control cables are much heavier and the ones I've seen have an adjuster built into the sheath for making adjustment to the length. The point is not that the two are identical; it is that they work on the same principal. Both are push-pull control cables. If it's feasible to make one, then it should be (within reason) feasible to make the other. One might also be able to forego the inline adjuster on the heater cable by using a different clamp on the heater valve; one that allows you to move the sheath back and forth. In the stock setup, the length of the sheath is changed. This changes how much of the inner cable sticks out of the sheath. As the ends of the sheath are fixed, this adjusts the position of the coil relative to the arm on the valve. If the sheath is a fixed length, you cannot change how much cable comes out. Thus, one could move the end of the sheath relative to the valve arm to have the same effect. Note that the turn signal switch does the same thing in a third way: both the sheath length and the sheath ends are fixed; adjustment is made by moving the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD63RIV Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 The cable dimensions for the photos I posted earlier are as follows. Outer sheath diameter is .157". The inside wire diameter is .032". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 1 hour ago, KD63RIV said: The cable dimensions for the photos I posted earlier are as follows. Outer sheath diameter is .157". The inside wire diameter is .032". Thank you very much. And therein may be the answer: get some 4mm (.157") gear cable housing ($1.35/foot for the best stuff) and some .033" spring wire ($5/85' for stainless or $3.70/86' for stronger carbon steel) and see what it turns in to. BTW, do you also have the ID of the coils? I don't think the standard Impala cable will work without modification, as it has a coil and bracket on only one end. Ecklers's has a Chevelle tilt cable and a Impala tilt cable that look interesting, but they really bend you over for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD63RIV Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 One of the coils is .193" ID. The other coil is .244" ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 On 1/13/2017 at 5:55 PM, KD63RIV said: One of the coils is .193" ID. The other coil is .244" ID. The two ends are different? That figures. They couldn't make it easy, could they? That's nominally a #10 and a #14 screw. In practice, the coil might spring open a bit after winding, so you might need to wind around something smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Well, my neighbor is really busy and can't seem find time to work with me on this so I took another approach. I "googled" turn signal switch cable and clicked on the images link. I found a few that looked the same. One in particular looked better because the plastic sheath has been replaced with a wound steel wire sheath. I called the guy from whose website the picture was acquired and talked with him some. He confirmed for me that he has the dimensions for the 1st generation Riviera cables, and can make them.. Two points of interest. 1 - He states that the turn signal switch for cars with cornering lamps has a different diameter pin at the switch than the turn signal switch that does not have cornering lamps. Can anyone verify this? 2 - He makes cables on an exchange basis. He need the connectors from your old cable to put on the new one. If anyone wants to pursue this, reply with a post. He claims that he can make the brackets but it would be costly. Ed PS - when I was measuring the cable that I have, I used drill bits to find the diameter of the cable ends. What I found is that the cable loops are not cylindrical, they're conical - bigger on one end than the other. The drill bits slide in easily from the big end but get tight as you continue to push them through. On the cable that I have, and I don't know if it came from a cornering lamp car or not, one end of the cable has a 13/64" diameter loop - when it gets tight - and the other end has a 1/4" diameter loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm63 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Anybody got an old column around to pull a core? Not sure if I need one yet, but would be hesitant to let go of the only one I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazdaz Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I'm curious how this topic has progressed - last post was from 6 months ago. I've been bummed lately because I can't drive around in the Riv in this great weather we have been having because my turn signals and now my brake lights are not turning on, and I suspect its the turn signal switch on the steering column and/or the stop light switch that needs replacement. My biggest issue, by far, is finding good diagrams or photos of where and how to access these components. This is by far the single most frustrating part of owning an awesome car like the Riv is that I can't turn to YouTube or Google Image Search or Bob down the street to ask for advice because Bob owns a Mustang or Camaro like every other classic car guy. The Buick Chassis CD I have is very hit-or-miss with diagrams in terms of the quality. But I digress - I think some of you guys see that summer is fading fast so not being able to put some miles on the car is frustrating. Curious what the deal is with the cable, and if I need to remove the steering wheel before I can access the switch mechanism. I had somehow twisted my body to look under the dash the other night to see if I could find the turn signal switch and I saw a cable running down the steering column that looked loose (but not totally loose) which must be the cable in question. I have already removed much of the trim around the area, but it looked like I had to drill out 4 rivets before I could take the actual steering wheel off to access the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Should not have to drill rivets to remove the steering wheel. You will need to use a steering wheel puller. You can pick up a cheap one for about $20 at Auto Zone. All GM steering wheels are removed the same. Find a video for an Impala wheel and follow along. Turn signal switch mounts to the bottom of the column and is adjustable. If it is not adjusted right, no lights. Loosen a couple small screws, adjust until you have lights and tighten. Too far one way, you only have right side lights. Too far the other way, only left side lights. You have to find the happy medium. Here is the turn signal switch. This is without cornering lights. They do not reproduce the switch with cornering lights. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aww-01993624?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-american-autowire&gclid=CjwKCAjwhqXbBRAREiwAucoo-_9aye9ONRxheQRCoEGjp2LGlEyO1lXlWjUJGtOS_ur3EY5Uti9mOhoCn3oQAvD_BwE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, steelman said: Should not have to drill rivets to remove the steering wheel. You will need to use a steering wheel puller. You can pick up a cheap one for about $20 at Auto Zone. All GM steering wheels are removed the same. Find a video for an Impala wheel and follow along. Turn signal switch mounts to the bottom of the column and is adjustable. If it is not adjusted right, no lights. Loosen a couple small screws, adjust until you have lights and tighten. Too far one way, you only have right side lights. Too far the other way, only left side lights. You have to find the happy medium. Here is the turn signal switch. This is without cornering lights. They do not reproduce the switch with cornering lights. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aww-01993624?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-american-autowire&gclid=CjwKCAjwhqXbBRAREiwAucoo-_9aye9ONRxheQRCoEGjp2LGlEyO1lXlWjUJGtOS_ur3EY5Uti9mOhoCn3oQAvD_BwE To add to this advice make sure, before you adjust the switch position, to put the tilt wheel in the position that it will normally be in when you drive the car. If your turn signal cable end is broken, and MANY are, the switch adjustment/position will change when you change the position of the tilt wheel and you will again lose a brake light on one side or the other, Tom Mooney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimm63 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 CJ Lang in NC can rebuild your cable, if needed. See other posts on this subject. Got mine working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mckenzie Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Zimm63 said: CJ Lang in NC can rebuild your cable, if needed. See other posts on this subject. Got mine working. Can you give us more info on CJ Lang ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Can somebody who has done it please tell us what has to be disassembled to get the cable in and out of the column? I would like to know in case my cable ever breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 You can build a cable yourself for a couple of bucks in parts and a few minutes of your time. You'll need to reuse the original clamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now