T-12 florescent tubes

[Bleach]

Bleach,hit the woods,take a gun if they may allow one,?

That'll be easy OCF since the woods start where my backyard ends but I'll have to check first to see if I have any silver bullets left.

[Bhigdog]

Hmmm...government interference....you can stop waiting now....CFL's are great, mandated by federal government...also mandated is that OSHA and EPA (the guv'ments here to help you) won't allow CFL's to be produced in the US, due to mercury content...so, automatically, more manufacturing jobs leave the U.S. .....

That said, I'm trying to figure out which fixtures to put in my newly enclosed/heated garage, hate to put the cheapies, but don't want to spend a fortune either....

I went through that 12 years ago. I opted to go with higher end commercial quality florescent fixtures using 96" high out put bulbs. A white ceiling and apertured reflectors do a great job of lighting the shop. I also wired it in 3 separate rows so I can lite 1/3 of the shop at a time if desired to save some bucks. The Grainger catalog has a helpful section on choosing lighting..........Bob

Edited November 8, 2012 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Guest Mochet]

I got smoke in my shop a while back and called the fire company. They used an infrared camera and found the cause: my old ballasts (filled with that black resin) were boiling! Since then, I've mostly switched from the 8-foot T12 tubes to electronic ballast and the thinner tubes. They work much better... for now.

Phil

[Bhigdog]

I got smoke in my shop a while back and called the fire company. They used an infrared camera and found the cause: my old ballasts (filled with that black resin) were boiling! Since then, I've mostly switched from the 8-foot T12 tubes to electronic ballast and the thinner tubes. They work much better... for now.

Phil

That smoke is put in at the factory. Once you let it out the device never works well again. They put some in the electronic ballasts too. Nothing electrical will work with out it. I recently found out they put big blue fire balls in 220 volt variable frequency drives along with the smoke because when I let the big blue fire ball out all the smoke came out too............Bob

[ply33]

...also mandated is that OSHA and EPA (the guv'ments here to help you) won't allow CFL's to be produced in the US, due to mercury content...

I was unable to find an online reference about that manufacturing ban, can you point me to a link?

I was under the assumption that overseas manufacture of that type of item was due to the same economic factors that lead to so many other products being manufactured overseas (basically basically dirt cheap labor costs).

[Bhigdog]

You know, I have never found myself in the position of having to disparage the concept of knowledge. I hope I never do.

― Isaac Asimov

Once again I agree with you. I hope you will agree with me when I say the landscape of knowledge past is littered with the decomposing corpses of failed theories, wrong assumptions, accepted wisdom, faulty observations, smug beliefs, and unintended consequences..................Bob

[Bhigdog]

Bob ,did that today,Got a bite as well,Who needs coffee?

I need to start drinking heavily................Bob

[MCHinson]

I can rant about politics as well as anybody. I would like to be able to leave this discussion alone so that the information about changes in garage lighting equipment will be available to help our fellow antique automobile hobbyists. I am not promising that some of the more political posts and insulting comments will not get edited, but can we please attempt to limit the discussion to the changes in lighting instead of the politics?

[Jim Bollman]

The whole T-12 thing certainly seems to have been a well kept secret. After this thread and looking around on the net I went to the local lighting supply company today and asked them about the pending shortage. They didn't know anything about stopping the manufacturing of T-12 bulbs. They said that the fixtures are no longer made but they had not been told of bulbs not being made. He checked and said he had 100 in stock and an order for 750 coming in shortly. He did comment the price had doubled in the last year and were now $1.89 ea instead of less than a dollar. I decided not to stock up and will start changing fixtures as needed. I did buy four 4 footers just so I didn't need to immediately switch a fixture out that failed in an important spot.

I also had a 2 foot T-12 fixture that had died in the kitchen to fix and he said they were still getting them in and as far as he knew those were still being made and they were supplying them to contractors for new construction. I decided not to go that route and spent more money for an LED light fixture and it is really a nice upgrade an uses so little power there is no guilt if it gets left on when not needed.

[Dave@Moon]

Hmmm...government interference....you can stop waiting now....CFL's are great, mandated by federal government...also mandated is that OSHA and EPA (the guv'ments here to help you) won't allow CFL's to be produced in the US, due to mercury content...so, automatically, more manufacturing jobs leave the U.S. .....

You know, I think a lot of the information on this thread must have come from Clint Eastwood's chair. Only the chair was real. I know believing yourself the victim of every situation is very seductive, but everything has to have a limit. Facts do matter.

To this specific absurd point, ALL of the cfl bulbs made by Lights of America are made not only in the U.S., but in (God help us!) California!!!!!! See: Lights of America

I suspect in CA they have a passing acquaintance with government regulations.

(BTW, that company invented the twist-style bulb, and makes a fine selection of LED bulbs here too! They are also one of the larger manufacturers on earth of modern light bulbs.)

Edited November 9, 2012 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Once again I agree with you. I hope you will agree with me when I say the landscape of knowledge past is littered with the decomposing corpses of failed theories, wrong assumptions, accepted wisdom, faulty observations, smug beliefs, and unintended consequences..................Bob

Sound of crickets?

[Dave@Moon]

Sound of crickets?

Apparently science hasn't sufficiently proven that crickets exist yet.

[MCHinson]

Hopefully, since the subject is lighting equipment, this will be helpful and not just more reason for argument:

Q 9: I don't want to buy any CFLs that are not made in the US. What

brands are those?

A 9: There is only one CFL manufacturer, Lights

of America, whose bulbs are assembled in the US. But many of their parts come

from off-shore. All the major brands, Sylvania, GE, Philips,

Maxlite,Westinghouse, TCP, Feit, Greenlite, Satco and Globe to name a few, have

their bulbs made off-shore. In fact, most all of the products we buy or consume

come from outside the US. Buying only CFLs with the Energy Star label assures

you they have met very strict quality standards, regardless of their country of

origin.

This is from the following site: https://www.seattle.gov/light/conserve/resident/cv5_lw2.htm

Additionally, I hope their products are better now than they were in 2010 when they were sued by the FTC:

FTC sues Lights of America over performance claims for some LED bulbs - Los Angeles Times

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Interesting, Matt. Thanks for posting plus getting the thread back on track.

[Friartuck]

Folks, There are two things I didn't see mentioned: 1) length of T-8 bulbs and 2) use of electronic ballasts.

T-8 bulbs seems to be available in four foot lengths, and not in eight foot long replacements for the T-12. And in bi-pin connections, not single pin as some T-12's have. If there are eight foot T-8's they seem to be the minority. Probably easily to manufacture & supply a whole lot of four foot versions than carry both four and eight footers. Conversion T-12 to T-8's: two eight footers to four four footers in the same fixture.

Ballasts that are electronic (not magnetic) have two ratings, one for commercial and one for residential. Multi voltage (120-277 Volt) ballasts are intended for commercial applications to account for simpler installation in multi voltage commercial buildings and do not have good RFI suppression. Ballasts that are rated for residential application (120 Volt) have better RFI suppression. The result without suppression is buzzing noise while listening to radios, both AM and FM stations. It is harder (next to impossible) to find residential ballasts at home stores and most T-8 fixtures come with commecial ballasts (at least the four bulb eight foot long versions). Even going to a electrical supply house didn't carry residential grade ballasts. There are some filters that can be installed on the input line side of the connection, but they have limited effect. Best advice is to buy a good quality fixture that has a residential ballast (some GE and Sylvania) that meets FCC Class B requirements. Good connections with very good grounds and not sharing your radio and lights on the same circuit helps. More on this topic is at:

Electronic Ballasts and Radio Noise - The Garage Journal Board

Chris Wantuck

Edited November 9, 2012 by Friartuck
Phrase added (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Just gets more complicated. In my case, 8 footers with 2 pin connectors, it looks like I would have had to replace my entire lighting system. Oy Vey....................Bob

[MCHinson]

Just gets more complicated. In my case, 8 footers with 2 pin connectors, it looks like I would have had to replace my entire lighting system. Oy Vey....................Bob

That is exactly what I was just thinking... That is not going to be fun.

[Bhigdog]

Like I said in the very beginning. Stocking up on bulbs, while the getting is good, is a very viable way to postpone the pain...................Bob

[joe_padavano]

T-8 bulbs seems to be available in four foot lengths, and not in eight foot long replacements for the T-12.

My local Home Depot has a wide selection of eight foot T8 bulbs in three different color "temperatures". Price is comparable to the t12 bulbs they still have in stock.

[Bleach]

Looks like I'll have to stock on T-12's like everyone else. I should have bought a lifetime's worth when they were recently on sale for 89 cents. I only have five fixtures and and I'm sure the bulbs have lasted at least five years for me.

I bet you can still get a supply of them for less than a new fixture or the cost of the ballast conversions.

[Bhigdog]

My local Home Depot has a wide selection of eight foot T8 bulbs in three different color "temperatures". Price is comparable to the t12 bulbs they still have in stock.

My local Lowes only has 96" T-12's in single pin ends not the 2 pin I need. They did have lots of 48" T-12's and surprisingly a pallet of 100W incandescent bulbs. But when they are gone they are gone............Bob

[Ron Green]

Bob, you said you have high output tubes and they are designed a little differently so you can’t insert regular tubes in a HO fixture. The HO’s have 2 pins in a somewhat square piece of plastic.

[Bhigdog]

Bob, you said you have high output tubes and they are designed a little differently so you can’t insert regular tubes in a HO fixture. The HO’s have 2 pins in a somewhat square piece of plastic.

You are correct, Ron. I wondered why some tubes have one fat pin and others the 2 pins as you described. You've answered that question. Anyway, I have HO fixtures, they have HO tubes in them, and the case of bulbs I stocked up on are also HO tubes with the correct end connectors so I'm good to go for the foreseeable future or until a ballast goes mammaries up. If that happens I'll reballast if able, or if not I'll be forced into buying a new T-8 or T-5 fixture..............Bob

[Ron Green]

T-12 HO’s are here to stay. Other non HO T-12’s stopped production in July however there is still a fair amount in the pipeline.

http://applications.nam.lighting.philips.com/legislationcalc/search-results/?shape=reflector

[Bhigdog]

T-12 HO’s are here to stay. Other non HO T-12’s stopped production in July however there is still a fair amount in the pipeline.

http://applications.nam.lighting.philips.com/legislationcalc/search-results/?shape=reflector

Are you saying, Ron, that 96" HO T-12's will continue to be available? If so that contradicts what my lamp supplier says. They said I got the last case in the store and they would not be getting any more. I also notice that Grainger has them on sale with that notation that it's a clearance sale and quantities are limited..................Bob

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I just checked Home Depot online, and they still list them as available.

Ben

[ply33]

T-12 HO’s are here to stay. Other non HO T-12’s stopped production in July however there is still a fair amount in the pipeline.

http://applications.nam.lighting.philips.com/legislationcalc/search-results/?shape=reflector

Great site! Thanks for the link. Looks like not all T12 bulbs are being phased out... They list at least one high efficiency T12 four foot bulb that will fit my fixtures that is not being phased out. So for me this looks like it will be a non-issue for the indefinite period.

On the other hand, saving 30% to 40% on electricity used for shop lighting might make upgrading things, on my own time and budget, a worth while endeavor and I was unaware that the T8 fixtures with electronic ballasts were that much more efficient than the T12s with magnetic ballasts that I currently have.

This has been a very interesting thread.

[Ron Green]

Are you saying, Ron, that 96" HO T-12's will continue to be available? If so that contradicts what my lamp supplier says. They said I got the last case in the store and they would not be getting any more. I also notice that Grainger has them on sale with that notation that it's a clearance sale and quantities are limited..................Bob

According to the seminars I attended on this subject (and the website) the HO's will be available and are not on the hit list.

[Bhigdog]

Looking at the web site it appears T-12 96" HO will be available but the pics they show of them leads me to think they will have the "standard" two pin ends not the plastic two pin like I need. I could be very mistaken, the subject gets more confusing by the hour. At any rate I'm set for the foreseeable future.....................Bob

Edited November 10, 2012 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[John_Maine]

We have flourescents over the washer and dryer in our basement. Wife came upstairs this morning and said they weren't coming on. Sure enough, one had burned out. I went down to Wally World and bought 2 packages (4 bulbs). The had a whole rack of them. We've lived here 21 years and I think I've replaced them one other time, so I'm thinking what I bought will last as long as I do. I also bought a few packages of regular light bulbs.

[31 HUPMOBILE]

I work in the local GE factory and we are making T-12 bulbs 24/7 in 4', 3', and 2' lengths. We have 3 lines making T-8's and 1 line making T-12's. Each line can make up to 55,000 bulbs per 8 hour shift.