1929 Death Valley Scotty Cadillac Factory 4x4 $15,500 in Broomfield, CO

[StillOutThere]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/798736588652164/?ref=marketplace_profile&referral_code=undefined

"I’m trying to help my dad sell some of his projects as he has to many to get to. The is one is a very rare car. It was custom built by Cadillac and owned by Death Valley Scotty. This car has 3 fuel tanks factory four wheel drive and heavy duty suspension and double spoke wheels to carry all the weight. In the rear 100 gallons of water was stored for his trips to the desert with potential clients. If you don’t know who Death Valley Scotty is google it. He was a major con artist in the 20s-30s who would plant gold in mine shafts in California and bring investors from new tour to sell the claims to. This is the car he would take the people to the remote locations to show them around. The lady at the Death Valley Scotty museum is supposed to be looking for pictures of him with this car. It took my dad 20+ years to acquire this car and since then he hasn’t done anything with it. Everything is there the bumper is in the car. Engine and tranny are in tact never tried to run it. This car will come with a bill of sale."

As an EX-Californian, I'm familiar with the story of Death Valley Scotty. This car is therefore quite fascinating. Should be in a California /Nevada museum, even if presented in its current condition.

Still sorry about the fact I have been unable to post pics on this web site for months.

[George Smolinski]

 

 

[George Smolinski]

[TexRiv_63]

I'd love to see more of this, like how the four wheel drive works (???). That's a 1932 radiator.

[m-mman]

Minor details make me think that it’s newer than 1929.  30? 31?  
Body doesn’t look like 1932-3.  

the pictures are horrible.  Screen captures not original images. 

[Johan Boltendal]

It is a 353 1930 7 pass sedan headlamps and radiator surround are as noticed 1932 air horn is not found often on these 353 engines Fisher body dash and steering wheel also 1930 , horn is also 353

[Craig_sauer]

Good afternoon everyone!  I am the one that has this for sale for my dad I messed up when I posted it. I have corrected the post it is in deed a 1930. I have some videos but it won’t let me add them

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Craig_sauer
Wrong photo (see edit history)

[TAKerry]

Interesting story, if it can be substantiated. I cant imagine Cadillac or any body co. letting the car go to the customer with that sheet metal work on the front end? I would bet more likely homemade.  The 'original owner' provenance means absolutely nothing to me on the east coast. Someone living in So Cal may know of the person and have interest though.

[Craig_sauer]

21 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

Interesting story, if it can be substantiated. I cant imagine Cadillac or any body co. letting the car go to the customer with that sheet metal work on the front end? I would bet more likely homemade.  The 'original owner' provenance means absolutely nothing to me on the east coast. Someone living in So Cal may know of the person and have interest though.

I agree the 3rd  fuel tank was added later I do believe the other two  fuel tanks was factory

[alsancle]

What Kerry said.  But very interesting anyways.   I think the history is important and if the story was real then the car is very worthwhile.  If the story is not real it might be worthwhile still depending on what the conversion is and when it happened.   I'm gonna guess the 50s but that is pure speculation on my part.

[sunnybaba]

Craig... I have a question... If you look in the driver's compartment... is there a second shift lever on the floor for the four wheel drive.... Is it always in four wheel drive??  ..... or is there a transfer case, with a second shift lever to put it 4X4 or two wheel drive...???   does it have hydraulic or cable brakes....??? you can tell by looking for the hoses or the cables that go in the backing plates, behind the wheels.....

[edinmass]

I would have paid $50 not to see this thread!

[alsancle]

2 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I would have paid $50 not to see this thread!

Elitist.

[63RedBrier]

Interesting how the wire wheels are interlaced with thick and thin spokes!  I can’t recall seeing that before… 

[Craig_sauer]

13 hours ago, sunnybaba said:

Craig... I have a question... If you look in the driver's compartment... is there a second shift lever on the floor for the four wheel drive.... Is it always in four wheel drive??  ..... or is there a transfer case, with a second shift lever to put it 4X4 or two wheel drive...???   does it have hydraulic or cable brakes....??? you can tell by looking for the hoses or the cables that go in the backing plates, behind the wheels.....

I will look and let you know I can’t remember 

[Craig_sauer]

10 hours ago, 63RedBrier said:

Interesting how the wire wheels are interlaced with thick and thin spokes!  I can’t recall seeing that before… 

This was done in order to carry ther weight of all the  water/fuel/people and luggage 

[edinmass]

The entire car is a hacked up mess. When it was hacked…..who knows………..and with all due respect……..who cares. The claim of any type of being factory built is pure fantasy. And the poor craftsmanship probably indicates a late 50’s or early 60’s attempt. It’s a rust pile that doesn’t even qualify as a parts car. Nobody will pay money for that hulk…….

[edinmass]

12 hours ago, alsancle said:

Elitist.

I much prefer car snob………Elitist implies left leaning tendencies.

[sunnybaba]

"It’s a rust pile that doesn’t even qualify as a parts car. Nobody will pay money for that hulk……."

Now ... Now... That is a pretty harsh comment.... we all know the quality of cars that you deal with and work on... so I understand where your opinion is coming from....

But... what if.... someone wanted a 4X4 vintage driver.... not original, and not preserved in original condition..... just a funky, unique, old beater ..... that was four wheel drive... for off road, back road use..... it also has historical interest, to some folks...... for sure, one of a kind, homemade 4X4...... looks like very little rust actually..... and who knows the condition of the running gear.... but it could be salvageable.... and drive-able..... just for fun... not for looks.... some of us like the funky... old, heavily used..... hillbilly look.....

[JACK M]

So, If you ever find yourself in Death Valley stop in at Scotty's castle, learn some interesting history. (DO NOT FEED THE COYOTES !!!)

Old Scotty built (never finished) a pretty cool place out there.

There is still alot of building materials stashed in the basement to finish the pool and moat.

Pretty neat homemade set up for the electricity.

Just a tourist trap, but I think being a tourist would be about the only reason one would be out there anyway.

There are a few of his old cars on display out there but I do not recall the subject car.

By the way, don't rely on your GPS devices if you leave any of the main routes.

[m-mman]

34 minutes ago, sunnybaba said:

But... what if.... someone wanted a 4X4 vintage driver.... not original, and not preserved in original condition..... just a funky, unique, old beater ..... that was four wheel drive... for off road, back road use..... it also has historical interest, to some folks.

It’s a wood frame body.  While the pictures are not detailed, I suspect that there are serious issues in the area of structural integrity. 

 

The Cadillac V8 does not have the durability and operational capability or parts support that a Ford V8 does. This is a deceptively complex engine.  
 

This is not “an old truck” that can be made to run without much time, money or effort. 
 

In short it is not at all something that can be easily made operational. 
 

And we still don’t know much about the 4x4 system or if it really exists? (We all want to know more about it!) 

 

The best place for this is on display, in its current state, as an artifact at “Scotty’s Castle” in Death Valley National Park.  

Next to the teens Packard touring car.  

[JohnS25]

I like it just the way it is and would love to take it on as a project. I would just do the minimum mechanical and cosmetic repairs to make it drivable under it’s own power. I have been to Scotty’s Castle and think his story is interesting. I think this car has some great Death Valley history and needs to be preserved.

I wish I had the time and space for it.

John

[edinmass]

4 hours ago, m-mman said:

It’s a wood frame body.  While the pictures are not detailed, I suspect that there are serious issues in the area of structural integrity. 

 

The Cadillac V8 does not have the durability and operational capability or parts support that a Ford V8 does. This is a deceptively complex engine.  
 

This is not “an old truck” that can be made to run without much time, money or effort. 
 

In short it is not at all something that can be easily made operational. 
 

And we still don’t know much about the 4x4 system or if it really exists? (We all want to know more about it!) 

 

The best place for this is on display, in its current state, as an artifact at “Scotty’s Castle” in Death Valley National Park.  

Next to the teens Packard touring car.  

I agree with the above……and having owned no less than 10 1930-1932 Cadillac V-8’s……….I stand by my comments. Not trying to be harsh…….but fact is it’s a dilapidated rusty mess that’s falling apart. Make it run as is can’t even be called a dream. Zoom in on the photos………

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[George Smolinski]

20 hours ago, edinmass said:

The entire car is a hacked up mess. When it was hacked…..who knows………..and with all due respect……..who cares. The claim of any type of being factory built is pure fantasy. And the poor craftsmanship probably indicates a late 50’s or early 60’s attempt. It’s a rust pile that doesn’t even qualify as a parts car. Nobody will pay money for that hulk…….

Don’t hold back, let us know how you really feel.😁

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

Don’t hold back, let us know how you really feel.😁

 

Ignore Ed.  He wouldn't know something cool if it backed over him.

 

Most "hacks" that we see show a inappropriate body dropped on a 4x4 chassis (poorly) with the fenders not even matching where the wheels are.

This is done to a much higher quality than that and utilizes the original chassis... I think.  Although I see no pictures of the front axle so are we sure it is 4x4?

[Gearheadengineer]

31 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Although I see no pictures of the front axle so are we sure it is 4x4?

That was my first thought. Actually my second thought. My first thought was remembering the Dukes of Hazzard episode where Cooter made the General Lee “4WD” by lifting it and putting big tires on it. My mind is a strange place sometimes 😀

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, Gearheadengineer said:

That was my first thought. Actually my second thought. My first thought was remembering the Dukes of Hazzard episode where Cooter made the General Lee “4WD” by lifting it and putting big tires on it. My mind is a strange place sometimes 😀

This is where I am, until I see the front axle, and the transfer case.

[Craig_sauer]

36 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Ignore Ed.  He wouldn't know something cool if it backed over him.

 

Most "hacks" that we see show a inappropriate body dropped on a 4x4 chassis (poorly) with the fenders not even matching where the wheels are.

This is done to a much higher quality than that and utilizes the original chassis... I think.  Although I see no pictures of the front axle so are we sure it is 4x4?

I have a video but it says it’s too large to add. It’s only 11seconds not sure why it’s to large or how to reduce its size without cropping the video more? It’s definitely 4x4 i screenshotted from the video

[Xander Wildeisen]

It looks like a full side mount tire cover was cut in half, to form the side supports for the front gas tank.

[alsancle]

You won't be able to directly post videos to this site.  You need to host them somewhere like YouTube and then put a link here.

 

Is this the front axle shot?

 

[Craig_sauer]

12 minutes ago, alsancle said:

You won't be able to directly post videos to this site.  You need to host them somewhere like YouTube and then put a link here.

 

Is this the front axle shot?

 

All three of those  pics are the front axle

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, Craig_sauer said:

All three of those  pics are the front axle

I don't see kingpins or steering linkage.  How do the wheels turn?

[Craig_sauer]

 

 

[Craig_sauer]

11 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I don't see kingpins or steering linkage.  How do the wheels turn?

I just posed some video links I’ll try to crawl under the car and video from the back side of the front axle also

[alsancle]

18 minutes ago, Craig_sauer said:

I just posed some video links I’ll try to crawl under the car and video from the back side of the front axle also

 

That would be cool.  I'm not doubting you but there is nothing in the pictures or videos that show the car actually has a drive axle in front.

[sunnybaba]

Very interesting front axel and Hub.... Not out of an early Jeep... I wonder what vehicles had a 4X4 front axel that looked like that... in the late 30's or early 40's...... The manual hub for putting the front axel into gear is only on one side.. (only one hub is turned to free or engaged) ....... could you also show the shift lever for the transfer case in the cab.... and it would probably show better and sell better if you cleaned out the desert pack rat nests from the interior... empty it out & clean it up some on the interior... so that the wood framework can be seen.... The doors do not appear to be sagging.. even the one that is open... the desert dryness has probably preserved the wood in sound condition...

It may not be in such bad shape.... cleaning it out would answer a lot of questions....

[edinmass]

Looks like a worm drive rear? I'm certainly not an early 4 wheel drive guy.........but the very low clearance rear end looks like a timken worm unit. 

 

Obviously the torque tube and transmission have been swapped out.......so identifying the transfer case and transmission would probably solve the donor drive line question. The factory rims were cut and had Firestone flanges added that was typical of 1938-1942 truck modifications. They added the extra renforcment spokes also............the shim blocks under the U bolts make it look like a back yard build. The conversion of the car to downdraft is a disaster as they opened a hole in the exhaust heating chamber and then cut holes into the intake to try and run the car...........so it never ran right if at all with the crazy downdraft attempt. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Craig_sauer]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Looks like a worm drive rear? I'm certainly not an early 4 wheel drive guy.........but the very low clearance rear end looks like a timken worm unit. 

 

Obviously the torque tube and transmission have been swapped out.......so identifying the transfer case and transmission would probably solve the donor drive line question. The factory rims were cut and had Firestone flanges added that was typical of 1938-1942 truck modifications. They added the extra renforcment spokes also............the shim blocks under the U bolts make it look like a back yard build. The conversion of the car to downdraft is a disaster as they opened a hole in the exhaust heating chamber and then cut holes into the intake to try and run the car...........so it never ran right if at all with the crazy downdraft attempt. 

Obviously you don’t like the car so why waste your time bashing it.  This was definitely not a backyard hackjob that you like calling it.   For the age of the car  it’s actually pretty solid  yeah the wood needs replaced the body is very solid, yeah it was sitting outside for a long time. It’s a great car for someone who doesn’t want a   Run of the mill car you see every day. 

[m-mman]

2 hours ago, sunnybaba said:

The manual hub for putting the front axel into gear is only on one side.. (only one hub is turned to free or engaged)

The “On — Off” you are seeing is the lettering that exists on the original Cadillac hub cap. The Cadillac hubcap seems to have been cut to allow whatever drive hub exists to poke through.  
But it is not instructions for a locking hub like what might be found on postwar all  wheel drive systems. 

[alsancle]

This looks like a Timken Worm Drive.  Same as on a Stutz or a Stearns Knight.    It is a strange choice because it was designed to lower the silhouette of the car.

 

But could someone point out the photo that clearly shows the front axle drive?   I think I'm blind.