25 Dodge tourer restoration

[Mattml430]

1 hour ago, AussieBuick said:

Hi Matt, More talented work from you, I have the very same rust repair to do, my thought is to weld a thin strip to the edge to form the 90-degree bend around the curve.

Bead rolling around a curve is past me... Earlier you mentioned using spotted gum for the main runners what is your timber of choice for the rest ???  Thankyou for giving us a great insight into restoration techniques. 

I have the template cut for this so if you needed them I could cut it out and do the 90 on the bead roller for you. The shape should be very similar because of the guards. 
The way you said would also work though. 
 

Im using some European ash type timber. It’s nice and light which is important in these old girls. I just wanted the main rails to be strong. The rest sort of holds itself together. Looking at what was used was a bit of everything. Appears to be a lot of meranti looking timber in the original. It’s definitely not a hardwood. slowly working my way around to the other side. 

[Minibago]

Slowly?

 

I think I have worked out how you do it.

 

[MikeC5]

I too am blown away by your skills, Matt.  Did you not have to shape the rear fender patch panel vis English Wheel first (before bead roller)?

[Mattml430]

Thanks Mike. It wasn’t necessary because after rolling it through the bead roller to make the 90degree edge,  I used the shrinker to create the shape needed to follow the old panel. It’s amazing how much curve you can get out of the shrinker to create a curve. 

[Mattml430]

Looking at all the door hardware today getting it ready to fit into the doors, I had to make some new door guides. After trying to get the old ones apart to replace the rubbers the just snapped apart and fell to pieces. All the other door hardware is sand blasted and ready for plating or painting  New guides cut out ready to fold. You can see the old ones fell to bits  I haven’t completely folded these up as I have to insert the rubber holder into them before folding them up. I also want to nickel plate them so they don’t scratch as paint would. 
Got some other bits and pieces ready for nickel plating also. sanded the kick plates from 180g right up to 1000g trizac pad. Done with a 6” soft pad. They will only need a light polish now before plating. I think they will look magic on the car. 
windshield posts were very badly pitted. I had to start with 120g paper on these. 

Finished these of with 500g and a scotch brite disc. 
I will start plating all these while finishing of the rest of the timber work. 
Each piece will be in the plating bath for about 45min to an hour. Hopefully it all plates well. You never know until it comes out. You can have 2 pieces the same and one will come out perfectly and the other not so good and has to be done again. 

[Mattml430]

Made some good progress today on the timber work and just have the top tack rail, floors to make and repair and hang the back doors. 
Had a bit of a wrestle with the r/hand back door and wheel arche trying to get it all to line up but it all came together in the end. will make a new tin floor for under the rear seat. 
The Nickel plating is coming along and still have a bit of that to do. The door guides are back together with new rubbers. 

I only had half the little steel caps for the rubbers so I’ve left them out  Front door hardware is all fitted up and all works well and lines the doors up. It’s all screwed in with Phillips head screws but I forgot to take a picture of it to stir up the screw police. 
They will be replaced after painting of course. 

[JACK M]

Those dang screw Screws.

[RichBad]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:39 PM, Mattml430 said:

Made some good progress today on the timber work and just have the top tack rail, floors to make and repair and hang the back doors. 
Had a bit of a wrestle with the r/hand back door and wheel arche trying to get it all to line up but it all came together in the end. will make a new tin floor for under the rear seat. 
The Nickel plating is coming along and still have a bit of that to do. The door guides are back together with new rubbers. 

I only had half the little steel caps for the rubbers so I’ve left them out  Front door hardware is all fitted up and all works well and lines the doors up. It’s all screwed in with Phillips head screws but I forgot to take a picture of it to stir up the screw police. 
They will be replaced after painting of course. 

I think I’ve got a tool I used to make those metal caps that go on the rubbers - probably not as good as what you could do but may be a start - will have a dig around for them

[Mattml430]

7 hours ago, RichBad said:

I think I’ve got a tool I used to make those metal caps that go on the rubbers - probably not as good as what you could do but may be a start - will have a dig around for them

Thanks Rich I think I remember that. I actually thought about that when I saw them. 

[Mattml430]

Almost have all the timber work finished just the drivers side rear door to hang. 
Made up some new running boards today so I could get the exact position of the rear guard. I needed to fit it all up so I could bolt it up to the new wheel arch. 
making up the new running boards. I folded up 2” channels and plug welded them together. 
Pre fitted the front guard to get the correct position. The guard fitted nicely into the new timber inner arch. 
Some small repairs needed on the door panels  but they are in pretty good shape  She’s starting to look like a dodge again. Made some repairs to the bottom of the rear guard. It was completely rusted away. I’ll be starting the repairs on the front guard tomorrow. She’s in need of some love. The support bracket is pretty much gone but I found a good one to replace it in amongst my parts. I will replace this panel back to the bead on the inner guard panel. Where it joins the running board it will need replacing also. 

[Mattml430]

Spent the whole day repairing the front guard. Still quite a bit to go on it to. 
Started on the back section first. Shaped the new tin and use it to cut out the old piece. Using a 1mm blade one the grinder give a nice gap to weld. Welded in and cleaned up. The bottom bracket needed some new steel put into it. Tacked it together so I could make a cardboard template. Traced the front shape and added 10mm to allow for the wire edge. sheet cut ready for shaping on the English wheel. I fitted the wire edge before shaping the guard piece. left the wire edge about an inch longer and cut the old one out so I can feed the new one in. getting some shape into it with the wheel and shrinker. tacked in and I’ll make the bottom section that sits on the chassis before I weld it all up. 

[nearchoclatetown]

Matt, that's pretty professional looking metal work. I thought you were just a wood guy? I'm impressed. 

[Mattml430]

2 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

Matt, that's pretty professional looking metal work. I thought you were just a wood guy? I'm impressed. 

I like metal because the glue dries quicker, and you can keep on with the job instead of looking around looking for something to do or mowing the lawn. Hang on I like mowing the lawn. 🤔

[Mattml430]

Front guard is all repaired. It was a fair old job getting it all done. 
The spare bracket I had needed a small repair but it worked out well. 
pays to keep the old stuff even if it looks like scrap. There is always some little bit you can use on them. 

[MikeC5]

Beautiful work!

[Mattml430]

I only got a little bit done today as I had to get my daughters car ready for an interstate trip tomorrow. 
I did manage to get the inner guard made and fitted so I can get the rear guard bolted up. 

The inner guard takes a bit of manipulating to get it to fit and sit nice  I still have the left one to make. I should have fitted that before I put the guard on but I didn’t. I just sat the guards and running boards on just to check the fit and all looks reasonably  good. 
Not far off getting it ready to start painting now. That’s a bit exciting I think , I’m really looking forward to seeing how it all looks painted. 

[Mattml430]

Body work is pretty much all done so it’s off with the body on Monday and start painting. 
Had to make a new front stone guard apron, 

The start of it before putting the wired edge in along the bottom. Just one more fold to make above the crank hole and a bit of straightening on the sides and it should fit. I need to take the nuts off the shackles. 

 

 

[Mattml430]

I got the body off today and over into my paint shed. 
I can get the exhaust system welded up and fitted now the body is back off. I gave it all a go over with some 120g to rough it up ready for the hi build undercoat. 
Gives it all a good key up to help the paint to stick. 

First coat of undercoat on. I’ll give it a guide coat tomorrow to help find all the highs and lows. Then give it a light skim of filler where needed and start blocking it all down. Should give the arms a good workout. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Mattml430 (see edit history)

[Mattml430]

The rims came back from the zinc plater’s today and came up really nicely. Had all the hardware zinc plated also. It should last forever now. 

[Mattml430]

Ben emailed me some pictures today of the car throughout it’s years with some family members. 
It’s really part of the family this car, it’s so amazing to see a car be in the 1 family for 100 years. It’s pretty cool that it will be restored for its 100th birthday. 1928. Ben’s dad on the running board next to his dad. That almost looks like a standard six in the background there. 
Bens Dad driving and his grandfather. Good old dog in the back. You can see the rear guard missing in this picture. Ben said they used to run a belt for a bush saw of the back wheel. 2nd gear and about 1500rpm was a good speed I think Ben told me. 
Ben in LH front,His  dad driving and his  3 sisters.  Also some other family members.

This is a classic picture of a great Aussie family all having a bit of good old fashioned fun. 

Ben’s mum in the front. 

what a great history of a car these pictures tell such a great story. 

[Minibago]

Thanks Matt, great to see the history in pictures.

[nearchoclatetown]

Matt, it is odd that you would have galvanized the rims. Good for you as that will last forever. MOST old cars in the US had cadmium plated rims. Several years ago someone had their '16 rims zinc plated and had the car at Hershey for the show. They were dinged by the judges for incorrect plating. A DBC member who just happens to be a chemical engineer took scrapings from an NOS DB rim and had it analyzed. It was ZINC. But AACA would not accept the proof because it wasn't from DB factory. They told him the rims were wrong and he should have just painted them with aluminum paint because they would accept that because zinc is so expensive here in the US. Also, just curious was there official colors for Aussie DBs? Here ALL DBs were black except for special bodies that were blue until about 1925. The Aussie '23 a neighbor had was yellow with blue fenders and appeared to be that way for ever. I see the car you are working on appears to be light color since way back. Any lists of colors you could have chosen back when new?

[Minibago]

7 hours ago, Mattml430 said:

The rims came back from the zinc plater’s today and came up really nicely. Had all the hardware zinc plated also. It should last forever now. 

Galvanised?

[Mattml430]

3 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

Matt, it is odd that you would have galvanized the rims. Good for you as that will last forever. MOST old cars in the US had cadmium plated rims. Several years ago someone had their '16 rims zinc plated and had the car at Hershey for the show. They were dinged by the judges for incorrect plating. A DBC member who just happens to be a chemical engineer took scrapings from an NOS DB rim and had it analyzed. It was ZINC. But AACA would not accept the proof because it wasn't from DB factory. They told him the rims were wrong and he should have just painted them with aluminum paint because they would accept that because zinc is so expensive here in the US. Also, just curious was there official colors for Aussie DBs? Here ALL DBs were black except for special bodies that were blue until about 1925. The Aussie '23 a neighbor had was yellow with blue fenders and appeared to be that way for ever. I see the car you are working on appears to be light color since way back. Any lists of colors you could have chosen back when new?

I had them zinc plated Doug. I cleaned up the outer rim before plating so it would give a bit of a shine. The car was cream from new but I’m not sure of colour offered. It had a red primer under the cream that gave me a headache for 2 days 😂. There was a darker dirtier cream under the lighter cream which was the original colour I’d say but we have gone with the lighter cleaner looking cream. It probably had a little freshen up over it’s 99 years. 

[nearchoclatetown]

Ok, in the US zinc coating is called galvanizing. You used the good stuff. We had a local company coat hand rails at work. The pieces are dipped in boiling zinc which was hot enough it warped some of the hand rails. As I said, according to other companies most old cars used cadium or cadmium depending how you spell it. It's kind of a difference in English like aluminum or aluminium. Also, DBs did NOT get primer under the finish color  from the factory. According to factory video available from the DBC store the bodies were shipped from Budd in  Phila. Pa. to Detroit, Mich.  bare by train ,then assembled and washed with gasoline and painted with garden hoses over open vats of paint on the conveyor. The excess ran back into the vat. 

[Mattml430]

You are correct Doug the primer was on the doors and tub. The cowl was black originally and had the cream painted over it. 
 

The rims were electro plated in zinc. 
We call galvanising, Hot dip galvanising here. It goes in at around 800c and pretty much buggers everything in its way. 

[nearchoclatetown]

So many of your original cars show light colored paint. That is why I asked if you had choices when new. 

[AussieBuick]

4 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

 According to factory video available from the DBC store the bodies were shipped from Budd in  Phila. Pa. to Detroit, Mich.  bare by train ,then assembled and washed with gasoline and painted with garden hoses over open vats of paint on the conveyor. The excess ran back into the vat. 

At Ford they recorded pouring 12 gallons of paint over a body and one gallon sticking ! 

[Mattml430]

I’m well into the long process of preparing the body for painting. It’s been blocked back after priming and then a skim of filler where needed to take out the 100 years of wear and tear. Blocked back again and it’s now had 2 good coats of polyfiller, which will be blocked back again by hand with 180g paper. This should get all the panels beautifully straight ready for another coat of highbuild primer. 4L was applied to all the panels to give me a good base for blocking back. It might sound like a lot of paint but probably 80% of it will be sanded off to get it to where I want it. 
My arms are feeling the pain already. 🤣

[Minibago]

We only see the outstanding results Matt, what we don’t see is the hours and hours of back breaking work required to achieve a good result however, without the required skills set and experience, no amount of hard work will make it right.

Thanks for providing this window through which we can see how it is done.

[Mattml430]

15 minutes ago, Minibago said:

We only see the outstanding results Matt, what we don’t see is the hours and hours of back breaking work required to achieve a good result however, without the required skills set and experience, no amount of hard work will make it right.

Thanks for providing this window through which we can see how it is done.

Thanks Nige

Not quite as bad as the old 4foot torture boards we used on the boat hulls, but I still feel it 25 years on from them. They were cruel. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Mattml430 (see edit history)

[Minibago]

Tendons and joints wear out particularly with repetitive actions, would an air operated orbital sander relieve some of the stress?

[30DodgePanel]

9 hours ago, Minibago said:

We only see the outstanding results Matt, what we don’t see is the hours and hours of back breaking work required to achieve a good result however, without the required skills set and experience, no amount of hard work will make it right.

Thanks for providing this window through which we can see how it is done.

Ditto! 

You said exactly what most of us are thinking as we view the work in this and other threads. 

 

I was going to jokinly say "you missed a spot" on the primer photos above, but that would have been way too cheesy, plus no one would have believed it anyway after seeing his variety of skills.

 

Thanks again Matt for taking us along for the ride. Your photos are always an encouragement to others who are still working on theirs (albeit at a sloths pace ). 

 

 

[Mattml430]

8 hours ago, Minibago said:

Tendons and joints wear out particularly with repetitive actions, would an air operated orbital sander relieve some of the stress?

Thank Dave hopefully it all helps someone along the way. 
 

Nige I have more air, electric and petrol driven tools than any man should be allowed to have.😂This part can only be done by hand sanding to do it properly and get it nice and straight. If there was a powered way of doing it, I definitely would don’t worry. 

[Mattml430]

I got the body and a couple of doors blocked back today. The body got a bit of extra skims of filler to take out some small depressions but overall it was looking pretty good. top of the cowl. This picture shows a few low spots after a bit of blocking back. They pretty much all came out after some more time spent. I was using a 400mm sanding block on the bulk of the body. The cowl side before blocking back  The door showing before and after sanding. With small sand through to bare metal I normally give them a tap down with a hammer and dolly to help make them disappear for the next coat of primer. 
If you zoom in you will see where I have put some pencil marks that will need some filler before the next coat. 

[31 LaSalle]

Meticulous work I am sure you will get lots of enjoyment from the end results after all your hard work

[30DodgePanel]

I know some guys swear by different cross techniques for blocking, some say X shape while others say vertical and horizontal.

 

It looks like you are using both techniques due to the contour of the metal? 

[Mattml430]

Yes I do it to suit the surface of the body and whichever works the best at the time. 

[nearchoclatetown]

My buddy's that had a body shop used a foot rule wrapped in sand paper to block in an X pattern like you are doing. Lots of patience needed. It will pay off. 

[Mattml430]

 

7 minutes ago, nearchoclatetown said:

My buddy's that had a body shop used a foot rule wrapped in sand paper to block in an X pattern like you are doing. Lots of patience needed. It will pay off. 

This is all the different blocks I use Doug. 
My medium block I have cut with a razor blade so it follows the curves really nicely.

But will stay dead straight on the flats