68 Electra gets new owner

[GARY F]

What is the brand name of your lift and are you happy with it? Thanks

[JoelsBuicks]

11 minutes ago, GARY F said:

What is the brand name of your lift and are you happy with it? Thanks

The name is Ben Pearson and it’s a 9,000 lb lift.  It is probably 30 years old at least.  I bought it in a disassembled state and it looked horrible.  I cleaned it up and painted it, replaced some chain that was rusted together and had to put new seals in the hydraulic cylinder. It works great and I love it. There are times when I wish I had a two post lift but I feel very safe under this.

[JoelsBuicks]

3 hours ago, sebastienbuick said:

I don't know if on the 1968 model it's like 1969, but on my Electra 69 the body supports (where there are the silent blocks) behind the rear wheels were in poor condition, and it would be the same problem on Electra that I saw.
So I helped redo the supports.
I will try to find pictures

Thanks for the warning.  I’ll take a look at this for the 68.  This morning I found some more rust in a couple small places below the battery area.   Your work is incredible.  I really enjoy seeing it done correctly.

 

Thank You!

[sebastienbuick]

21 hours ago, JoelsBuicks said:

Thanks for the warning.  I’ll take a look at this for the 68.  This morning I found some more rust in a couple small places below the battery area.   Your work is incredible.  I really enjoy seeing it done correctly.

 

Thank You!

Thank you  

For the "tray" under the battery, on my Electra I also redid this part, and I see that on my second Electra 69 there is also puncturing rust on the battery tray.
I think it's the same problem on these Electra, but it's fixable  

[JoelsBuicks]

7 hours ago, sebastienbuick said:

Thank you  

For the "tray" under the battery, on my Electra I also redid this part, and I see that on my second Electra 69 there is also puncturing rust on the battery tray.
I think it's the same problem on these Electra, but it's fixable  

Sebastian, I took a look at our 68, the same area behind the back wheels where the body soft mount is located.  I did find some rust there as you’ll see in the pics.  There seems to be substantial strength left; more on the drivers side .  
 

not to be too critical of Buick engineers but if I was going to design something and guarantee it rusts, it could not have been done better.

 

I’ll mention this again, there is quite a bit of undercoating that has large loose and flaking chunks. And what’s more strange is that there appears to be undercoating in much better shape that is below that stuff.  I’ve never see this before.

 

 

[JoelsBuicks]

Regarding the side molding, I have seen a similar problem before where the rubber  insert in the aluminum trim has shrunk in length and thereby revealing areas at the end of each piece that appear devoid of the rubber.  Pics tell the story but I wonder how this gets fixed?  Any chance that new rubber is available?  Or, has anyone ever removed that and restreched it without making a mess of it?

thanks again folks and happy new year

 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Rubber rope, cut to fit and glued into place?    Not perfect but most will never notice. Nor will you after a while.

 

  Ben

[sebastienbuick]

17 hours ago, JoelsBuicks said:

Sebastian, I took a look at our 68, the same area behind the back wheels where the body soft mount is located.  I did find some rust there as you’ll see in the pics.  There seems to be substantial strength left; more on the drivers side .  
 

not to be too critical of Buick engineers but if I was going to design something and guarantee it rusts, it could not have been done better.

 

I’ll mention this again, there is quite a bit of undercoating that has large loose and flaking chunks. And what’s more strange is that there appears to be undercoating in much better shape that is below that stuff.  I’ve never see this before.

 

 

indeed a support seems in less good condition than the other side.
But it fixes it if it had to be done

[JoelsBuicks]

On 1/2/2023 at 9:55 AM, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Rubber rope, cut to fit and glued into place?    Not perfect but most will never notice. Nor will you after a while.

 

  Ben

Ben you’re right.  These things have a way of getting out of mind in just a little while.  A round piece of rubber might just work although I think the original profile is a little more complex.  I tried to take a close-up.  Actually, it might just be a round piece since there are little barbs to help hold it in.
 

you know, I’m not so sure that a removal and restretch is not out of the question.  A little glue might keep that in place for a while.

 

thanks again,

Joel

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[Buicknutty]

On 1/1/2023 at 10:17 PM, JoelsBuicks said:

Sebastian, I took a look at our 68, the same area behind the back wheels where the body soft mount is located.  I did find some rust there as you’ll see in the pics.  There seems to be substantial strength left; more on the drivers side .  
 

not to be too critical of Buick engineers but if I was going to design something and guarantee it rusts, it could not have been done better.

 

I’ll mention this again, there is quite a bit of undercoating that has large loose and flaking chunks. And what’s more strange is that there appears to be undercoating in much better shape that is below that stuff.  I’ve never see this before.

 

 

 This is what happened to the '68 Wildcat my wife has, only they were completely rusted out. When the car was last painted in the early 80's it seems the body shop did a simple repair, they cut them out and did a nice patch over that area in the trunk!

 Of course this car is a convertible and the body sagged to the point where the top wouldn't close!

 I agree with you it's a terrible design, and especially here in the north where they get bombarded with salt and sand, so they're bound to fail.

Keith

Edited January 7, 2023 by Buicknutty (see edit history)

[EmTee]

6 hours ago, Buicknutty said:

Of course this car is a convertible and the body sagged to the point where the top wouldn't close!

Keith, does that explain the large gap between the top of the door and the quarter panel that you were struggling with in your last Wildcat update?

 

Joel, I apologize for sidetracking your thread...

[Buicknutty]

9 minutes ago, EmTee said:

Keith, does that explain the large gap between the top of the door and the quarter panel that you were struggling with in your last Wildcat update?

 

Joel, I apologize for sidetracking your thread...

 That's what I had been thinking about for ages, this is a relic from poor repairs but with the equipment we have there's no way to push things around. However, a very good friend and a life long body guy did a whole lot of measurements to it and didn't think too much had shifted on the quarter. Though we just can't be sure. I know QC back then wasn't the greatest but this looks pretty poor.

 

 As I noted, in the end we decided to just make it look good.

Keith

 

Sorry, we won't hijack your thread any more!

[EmTee]

Back to the regularly scheduled program, already in progress... 

[JoelsBuicks]

17 hours ago, EmTee said:

Joel, I apologize for sidetracking your thread...

Be it known to all that whatever limited authority I might have regarding this thread, you have my unfettered permission to use it in any way toward the enjoyment of this hobby!

 

And, thanks again for weighing in!

 

Joel

[JoelsBuicks]

I am sad to report that the big 430 is stuck.  I think I’ll spray some PB Blaster in the cylinders and add a cheater pipe.  Maybe just pull the engine and get started on it.  It’s got at least 111,000 miles on it.  Motors back then usually needed some help by then.  Nothing is ever as simple as you hope it to be.  

[old-tank]

Remove the rockers.  Just a few stuck valves will lock it up.

[JoelsBuicks]

47 minutes ago, old-tank said:

Remove the rockers.  Just a few stuck valves will lock it up.

Oh that’s good to know.  It gives me hope.  I’d dearly love to hear this run.

 

thank you!

[JohnD1956]

2 hours ago, JoelsBuicks said:

I am sad to report that the big 430 is stuck.  I think I’ll spray some PB Blaster in the cylinders and add a cheater pipe.  Maybe just pull the engine and get started on it.  It’s got at least 111,000 miles on it.  Motors back then usually needed some help by then.  Nothing is ever as simple as you hope it to be.  

May we assume that the accessory drive belts were removed? Alternator and power steering? 

[JoelsBuicks]

1 hour ago, JohnD1956 said:

May we assume that the accessory drive belts were removed? Alternator and power steering? 

We didn’t do that.  Never occurred to me that something else could be stuck.  That’s easy enough to do.

[EmTee]

Maybe some Acetone+ATF in the cylinders.  Also, once accessories and rockers are off try gently prying at the ring gear.  You'll have more leverage at the flexplate.  Try back-and-forth in both directions.

[JoelsBuicks]

2 hours ago, EmTee said:

Maybe some Acetone+ATF in the cylinders.  Also, once accessories and rockers are off try gently prying at the ring gear.  You'll have more leverage at the flexplate.  Try back-and-forth in both directions.

Does your day ever start out like this?

 

[Machine Gun]

20 hours ago, JoelsBuicks said:

Does your day ever start out like this?

 

Only when I wake up at Home Depot!

[drhach]

I try to hit Ace Hardware before I go to the big places. Locally owned and better employees. 

[JoelsBuicks]

1 hour ago, drhach said:

I try to hit Ace Hardware before I go to the big places. Locally owned and better employees. 

Boy isn’t that the truth!  My two favorite Ace’s are both 14 miles out of my way.  In addition to what you said, I have found some better prices there as well.  

[JoelsBuicks]

Been a while since I sprayed down those cylinders and after several failed attempts to get the motor to turn I removed it along with the transmission. 

 

It turns out that cylinder 8 piston was stuck with ample corrosion found upon disassembly; it wasn’t easy to pound it out.  I’m glad now that I didn’t resort to harsher means of freeing up the engine.

 

The other cylinders looked great and I measured them all top and bottom and two different directions and the maximum wear was 0.0022” on one cylinder and the maximum taper was 0.0011”.   Most cylinders had 0.0007” or less wear.  I found two cracked pistons and the stuck piston was pitted on top.  See the pics.

The 8 cylinder is badly pitted towards to top with maximum pit depth of 0.074”.  It will require a sleeve.  
 

With this little wear, I want to just hone and go back with the standard pistons.  But, I have found it to be difficult finding standard pistons.  You may have seen my WTB ad looking for pistons.  If not, perhaps you have an idea of how I can get three standard 430 pistons - I would even consider lightly worn used pistons.

 

As for the other stuff, I will get a valve job, new timing set, block vatted and new cam bearings. Of course new rod and main bearings.  BTW, these bearings looked great and so did the crank.  
 

Thanks again!

 

just noticed the two piston crack pics are zoomed in and really only about 1” long.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by JoelsBuicks (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Found one NOS piston...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265980637171?hash=item3dedae6ff3:g:kW8AAOSwTHZja1kB&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4DQi5Dq4tfJg1kTPreWu1Hze9iWyiNaRNBoCo57Sw7%2BheOKSvvN4tNBtcBYjsibV4IfRl%2FcQjs5zBA9iNlmNtnUYKKgYDeuoPLXIZgisAGYBWuEocYMOu%2FRJaDauAUpmoWD8FwvHIPe%2BxE%2FGAz8WNxBNkeo%2FxsvRSqMDk%2BxbBd5ieipwbvhK8KzKR7ynG984aQHtqdznQG%2BU4KaYIVBsxMW6epHwj9hzGWlvKP2Bz4QXgjLukpbAVWTU8jnvOOdHnOjCU3PMHfmEMonrWzrOr8dIG%2BryRRDbIInNLySAMbI9|tkp%3ABk9SR6ry5ODgYQ

 

[EmTee]

Maybe try J&C Parts, Carmen Faso 716-693-4090...

[JohnD1956]

Are you close to that salvage yard @Pete Phillips always mentions. Browns Auto Salvage.  Thought they were in Oklahoma.  You might be able to find a decent motor there or a motor that at least turns over and you can source the parts from. 

 

[Pete Phillips]

19 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

Are you close to that salvage yard @Pete Phillips always mentions. Browns Auto Salvage.  Thought they were in Oklahoma.  You might be able to find a decent motor there or a motor that at least turns over and you can source the parts from. 

 

If we are talking about a 430 V8, there are several 1967 and 1968 Wildcats at Browne & Sons Salvage in Sunset, Texas. Facebook is best way to get in touch with them but they are very, very swamped with work and under-staffed. There are probably some Electras and Wildcat with the 430 at Bud's Salvage in Aline, Oklahoma. Facebook is best way to contact them as well, and they have more time--not nearly as busy so they can probably pull the engine quicker. Both salvage yards have 3000-4000 cars, mostly older ones.

Pete Phillips

[JoelsBuicks]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:27 PM, EmTee said:

Found one NOS piston...

Got my eye on that one.  I wish he had three. I figured three might come easier than 1 at a time but you never know.

 

Thanks!

[JoelsBuicks]

14 hours ago, Pete Phillips said:

If we are talking about a 430 V8, there are several 1967 and 1968 Wildcats at Browne & Sons Salvage in Sunset, Texas. Facebook is best way to get in touch with them but they are very, very swamped with work and under-staffed. There are probably some Electras and Wildcat with the 430 at Bud's Salvage in Aline, Oklahoma. Facebook is best way to contact them as well, and they have more time--not nearly as busy so they can probably pull the engine quicker. Both salvage yards have 3000-4000 cars, mostly older ones.

Pete Phillips

There’s probably several good reasons to have a spare engine but I was hoping this would be easier than that 😉.  Still, I may have a need to visit that salvage.

 

I wish that I knew more about these engines and what other possibilities there might be for a more economical fix.  There are probably bores like 455 and 442 where pistons are about half of the 430.  Unfortunately my favorite machinist passed away at 79 this January; he would have known.

 

Thank You.

[EmTee]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:19 AM, JoelsBuicks said:

I wish that I knew more about these engines and what other possibilities there might be for a more economical fix.

Well, if keeping the original engine isn't a constraint, it seems that one of those yards would likely have a serviceable 455 that would be a drop-in replacement for the 430.  You could shelve the 430 for now and wait while collecting the pieces needed for an eventual rebuild.  A good used engine would get the car on the road much faster and I'd have to think more economically that repairing the original block.