ramair Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Terry, if you order new screen material please do not go much finer than what you already have. We would refer to the size you have as a “rock catcher” , if you go to fine you know what will happen at the temperatures in your neck of the woods! The other issue might be way off in the future some new owner might not change oil often enough and then comes the sludge. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 Terry, I also bought my screen material from McMaster-Carr. My screen is not the same but it soldered up nice when I redid my screen. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937McBuick Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Any new news Terry? Christmas and New Year's can slow things down alot. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 I did speak with the folks at Action Spring before Christmas and we are going to get together sometime later this week. There is a real good possibility that it has been figured out what happened. I don't want to say too much just yet because I still have a few questions about how the spring was made. Once this has been talked out I think the issue will be resolved so that it will never happen again. More later. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock10 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 A cliff hanger! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 We think the problem has been solved and know what happened. I will ask you to go back in this posting and look carefully at the sectional view drawing where the oil pump spring is shown. The original pump spring was straight ID and OD wise. Here is where things get confusing. The upper shaft that drives off the camshaft has a larger diameter with the spring slot. Going by what can be measured from the drawing (keep in mind that the drawing is full scale) it was determined that that end of the shaft measures .750" in diameter. The upper end of the shaft that drives the pump gears measures .6875" (or 11/16"). Here is where the problem was. The Inside diameter of the new spring measures .745" The spring did not slip over the end of the upper shaft far enough to fully engage the cross section into the slot. The guys made a piece like what it was supposed to be and it was discovered that that was where things hung up. The new spring(s) will be made with an inside diameter of .765" and this is going to be exactly what is needed. We have all heard that old saying that the Good Lord looks after drunks and fools, well, I ain't no drunk. Guess where that leaves me. The Good Lord was watching over us on the Red Flag Tour. We are so thankful that this did not decide to happen going down the road at 30 miles per hour. We should have some new springs sometime around the middle to latter part of February. Too cold to be on a creeper on the concrete floor anyway. Photos when the springs arrive. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 So, you're saying that it was just spring tension (or friction) between the upper drive shaft and the top of the spring that was driving the oil pump? If so, what finally happened was the spring slipped off the upper shaft? In any case, as you said, good thing it happened now and you have a fix in the works. Nothing is ever as easy as it seems... Maybe you can use a spare pump shaft, or make a dummy shaft to fit the spring to the drive shaft to ensure that the tang on the new spring will engage properly before installing the pump. Or, install the pump with the cover off and idler gear removed so that you can confirm that the tangs are engaged before installing the 'guts' into the pump body. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str8-8-Dave Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Great news Terry, this story has the best outcome, car wasn't hurt more important, people were not hurt. It's good you were paying attention, you saved your car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 The thing that just blows my mind is the fact that there is over 400 miles on the engine before this decides to happen. It is obvious that the shop did not know about this when they were putting the engine back together. When the oil pump body goes into the oil pan there is nothing that can be seen from that point on. All I can say is - we just got lucky - real lucky. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock10 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I can't wait for scenes from the next episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937McBuick Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I know I should probably let this rest but which end of the spring broke? The end engaging the drive stub or the oil pump end? Is anything chewed from "slipping" Did you ever find a suitable screen for the oil pump intake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 Rock, there is NOT going to be another episode😂! This one was way more than enough! 37McBuick, the top end of the spring (driven by the camshaft) was where the problem was at. The spring simply did not get engaged far enough into the drive slot to make a really secure connection. Opening the inside diameter of the spring up slightly will ensure that everything gets seated where it is supposed to be. There was no damage to either the drive end or the driven end of the oil pump shafts. Really got lucky with how things happened. Mr. Minnie down in Florida is taking care of the strainer screen on the pump for me. This whole thing has me just shaking my head because the guys at Abrahams Machine in Davenport did an absolutely wonderful job with rebuilding the engine. Once we got the timing and carburetor issues sorted out the engine just runs perfect. I will post photos of all the parts and pieces before it all goes back together. Just about forgot this point - the wire in the spring did not break. It simply unwound itself from what was in the shaft slot. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock10 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 23 minutes ago, Terry Wiegand said: Rock, there is NOT going to be another episode😂! Darn. I signed up for season 2. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron1930 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Terry; Does the spring disengaging explain how it got bent out of shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 Andy, The cross end of the spring evidentially did not get down into the slot far enough to fully engage. This is the only reasonable explanation that can be offered. The inside diameter of the new spring(s) is going to be opened up to .765" to make sure that it will go over the drive end of the upper shaft. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Is there any way you can just use the old spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 NOPE! Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 A long time friend called me yesterday and suggested that I should enroll the Buick with CarShield. I told him that I did not think that that would be an option. He shot back and said that the car has been completely rebuilt and that I really should look into this. Some folks have waaaay too much time on their hands🤣. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock10 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 (edited) There is some very good news to report at this time. The new oil pump drive springs came today. We're really happy that things are starting to move in the right direction. Ed sent me a note the other day and told me that when he gets back from Amelia that he will get right on the oil pump for us. That was great news to hear also. When the folks made the new springs we discussed opening the inside diameter up a bit and we agreed that widening the hook on each end would allow for not quite as sharp a bend at the very end. The photos really do not show this as well as I would have liked, but, it is what it is in that regard. When the pump gets back home I am going to cut a new gasket for it and hopefully I can get the crankcase filled with fresh oil. It shouldn't be long after that that the starter pedal can be stomped on. Updates as things happen. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 Edited March 2 by Terry Wiegand (see edit history) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937McBuick Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Thanks for reporting back to us. Best of luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 If a person looks really close at the photo with the pump drive shaft slipped into the spring, they will notice that the drive end does not completely fill the inside diameter of the spring. The outside diameter of the driven end measures 11/16" or .687" . The drive end of the shaft that runs off the camshaft looks like it should be 3/4" or .750" by scaling the full size sectional drawing at that point. Sorry about this poor photo to illustrate what is being measured. We had the new springs inside diameter opened up to .765" to make sure the end of the shaft would fit into the spring. The thing that really has me trying to figure out is why Mr. Marr would have engineered this pump drive mechanism with two different outside diameters like this? If anyone can shed light on the why this was done like this - there are a bunch of us who would like to know the reason why. It is supposed to be in the lower 70's on Sunday and I am going under on the creeper to check the spring fitment to the shaft out. More information about that later. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 EUREKA!! The new spring slips over the top stub like it is supposed to. The first thing that I did was to try the good end of the one that went haywire. The cross bend went just a little bit into the slot, but not far enough to fully engage. I then tried the new spring with the slightly enlarged inside diameter and the cross tang went clear to the bottom of the slot. I believe that I can safely say that the problem has been discovered with the original spring and that the new replacement is going to work just fine. Setting the pump back into place could be a tricky situation, but I have had the time to figure out just how it can be done rather easily. I talked with one of my early Buick friends the other day and we discussed this oil pump drive system at great length. We came to the thinking that the reason for the two different outside diameters of the drive and driven stubs was to allow for some mismatch with the two shafts centerline axis'. This is just about the only reason that really makes any sense. At any rate, I think things are headed in the right direction this time. The next big thing is stepping on the starter pedal and watching the oil running through the sight gauge. Will keep everyone posted about the progress. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted Saturday at 10:30 PM Author Share Posted Saturday at 10:30 PM I spoke with Ed Minnie late yesterday afternoon (Friday) and he told me that the oil pump will be on its way back home more than likely on Monday. We had quite a visit about what went into the repair. We are going to talk again once I have the pump in hand. I will post photos so that everyone can see just what was done. I cannot say all that much right now without physically having the pump body in my hands. What I can talk a little bit about is the oil pump drive spring application(s). I have been asked if this particular spring will fit other years of Buick 6-Cylinder engines. I consulted my Buick Illustrated Parts Catalogs for 1916 through 1923. Good question. I wasn't sure what I would find, but, it turned out interesting to say the least. As we all know, the 1916 and 1917 models were ALMOST identical mechanically. Here is what I found - OIL PUMP SPRING - 33577 OIL PUMP DRIVING SHAFT - 33575 OIL PUMP GEAR SHAFT - 33875 For the 1918 models OIL PUMP SPRING - 35090 OIL PUMP DRIVING SHAFT - 33575 OIL PUMP GEAR SHAFT - 33875 For the 1919 and 1920 models OIL PUMP SPRING - 38200 OIL PUMP DRIVING SHAFT- 33575 OIL PUMP GEAR SHAFT - 41491 For the 1921 models OIL PUMP SPRING - 38200 OIL PUMP DRIVING SHAFT - 33575 OIL PUMP GEAR SHAFT - 41491 For the 1922 models OIL PUMP SPRING - 38200 OIL PUMP DRIVING SHAFT - 33575 OIL PUMP GEAR SHAFT - 151837 For the 1923 models OIL PUMP SPRING - 38200 OIL PUMP DRIVING SHAFT - 33575 OIL PUMP GEAR SHAFT - 151837 It is a pretty safe thing to say that the 1916 thru 1918 6-Cylinder oil pump system used some of the same individual parts. I have found that through the years Buick changed the part number for the same identical part used on different designated year models. There is a good possibility that the spring used on the 1918 models was the same as was used on the 1916 and 1917 models. MAYBE NOT. Our 1916 is a really early in the production year car. It was built in October of 1915 and has a cast Aluminum oil pan. Later in the production of these models a stamped steel oil pan was used and this figured into the placement of the oil pump. The parts catalogs refer to the depth of the oil troughs from the crankcase, so, with that said, it stands to reason that the placement of the oil pump body was going to be moved. I am thinking that the cast Aluminum and stamped steel oil pans used on the 1916 models used the same oil pump components except for the spring because the parts catalog calls out a different number for the spring used on the stamped steel oil pan and that number is 35090. Same spring except for a different length. Anyone who has a 1916, 1917, or 1918 6-Cylinder engine and should find themselves in need of one of these Oil Pump Drive Springs - please do not hesitate to get in contact with me. I can put you in touch with the folks who can help you out. This information can be confusing when you first read it, but, go back and reread and you will see where things fall into place. I hope that this will help anyone who might be in need. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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