1941 Graham Spotted A Few Years Ago

[DrumBob]

I spotted a 1941 Graham for sale a few years ago in front of a sporting goods store about seven miles from home. I remember it had the most amazing Art Deco front end styling and the drive shaft was lying on the ground in the back. It was for sale, and within 2-3 weeks, it was gone. I did manage to take some photos of it with my phone, and I believe I still have them.

 

Can anyone tell me more about Graham autos from that era? 

Edited March 27, 2022 by DrumBob (see edit history)

[Tom Boehm]

The 1941 Hollywood was the last Graham. Graham and Hupmobile worked together to attempt to use the body tooling from the 1936 and 1937 Cord as a final effort to become profitable again. Notice the similarity in styling of the Hollywood and the Hupmobile Skylark to the Cord. The Cord was a low production car and the body tooling was not suitable for the mass production Hupp and Graham needed to save the company. 1941 was the last year for Hupmobile also. The Hollywood and the Skylark are rare cars today. 

 

We would all like to see the pictures if you can find them and post them. 

[60FlatTop]

They are a car that will make you stop and take pictures.  I heard about these two sitting in Scio, NY and took a nice ride down to see them.

[Tom Boehm]

The only Graham Hollywood I have seen in person was unfortunately a resto mod. The Cords were front wheel drive cars. The Graham and Hupmobile versions were conventional rear wheel drive with a flathead straight six engine. Some of the Hollywoods were supercharged. 

Total 1940-1941 Graham Hollywood production was between 1500 and 1800 cars.

Total 1940-1941 Hupmobile Skylark production was 319 cars. 

Total 1936-1937 Cord production was 2,320 cars. These had a flathead Lycoming V8 and some were supercharged. 

production figures from Encyclopedia of American Cars From 1930. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Tom Boehm (see edit history)

[DrumBob]

This was the model I saw, with that amazing front end. Maybe it wasn't a 1941, but that's what the sign said. It was just so unusual, I had to take photos of it. This photo is of a Graham that looked just like it, but of course, the example I saw was not in the same condition. If I can find the photos I took, I'll post them. These were amongst the most beautiful cars I have ever seen. I love Art Deco, and these were prime examples of that style. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by DrumBob (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

DrumBob:

 

This series 1938-'40 Graham was named "The Spirit of Motion" by the company, though known colloquially as the "shark-nose" Graham.    Graham-Paige Motor Corporation, never a major industry player, had fielded the influential 1932 "Blue Streak" series designed by the massively talented Amos Northup, chief designer at Murray Corporation (body maker).  As the 1930's wore on, other carmaker's styling caught up to and surpassed Graham.  Amos Northup was developing the design for the Spirit of Motion series for Graham who hoped the progressive, dramatic styling would revive interest in and sales volume for their cars.  Unfortunately, Mr. Northup died prematurely from a slip and fall accident in early 1937, leaving the design concept to be 'productionized' in the version you have here.   It's a fascinating history worth your time to delve into to learn more.

 

Steve

[DrumBob]

Thanks for your reply. I just did some research and I think the car I saw was probably a '38-39, and not a '41. It is a fascinating story, and I guess the buying public wasn't ready for a car that looked so radical. Personally, I love the design. 

[Frank DuVal]

Hmm, Graham, never seen one.....  Ha!😆

 

That's my 38 Supercharged "Sharknose" in my picture to the left. Very art-deco styling to me. I love every little detail on the body.

 

At car shows people ask where it was made. They are surprised it was right in the middle of Detroit.😲

 

When I was 59 my daughter asked my what car I wanted that I never bought. I told her a Sharknose Graham. What a surprise it was when she found this one for sale at a price I could afford within months of looking.

 

For more details on Graham, join the GOCI, Graham Owners Club International. They publish a nice magazine with many articles devoted to history.

 

The Graham Brothers were glass bottlers.  Then they built trucks. Dodge sold them as Dodge trucks in the mid 20s. 😉 Then they bought Paige Motors.

 

Their last vehicles were with a new guy, Joe Frazer, who bought the vehicle part of the Graham Corporation. Then he hooked up with some guy named Kaiser....👍

 

[Graham Man]

Hupp (1 of 1), Graham (1 of 3 remaining, 4 original built). Cord.   Hupp and Graham are rear wheel drive.

 

 

 

 

PS Graham-Paige built more Supercharged cars than all other supercharged car manufactures combined, I think that record still stands.  Both the Spirit of Motion and Hollywood were available with Supercharged engines.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Graham Man (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

8 hours ago, Graham Man said:

PS Graham-Paige built more Supercharged cars than all other supercharged car manufactures combined, I think that record still stands.  Both the Spirit of Motion and Hollywood were available with Supercharged engines.

They had superchargers earlier than the Sharknose. They had them on the mid 30s Blue Streaks. 

[Graham Man]

1934 was the Supercharged 8; Model 69

 

 

 

[8E45E]

On 3/27/2022 at 5:16 AM, Tom Boehm said:

The Cord was a low production car and the body tooling was not suitable for the mass production Hupp and Graham needed to save the company.

That was a big issue; too labor intensive to make a decent profit on.  Reportedly, the roof consisted of 7 different stampings and had to be welded, then leaded and filed smooth.

 

Craig

[58L-Y8]

3 hours ago, 8E45E said:

That was a big issue; too labor intensive to make a decent profit on.  Reportedly, the roof consisted of 7 different stampings and had to be welded, then leaded and filed smooth.

 

Craig

Here is a Hupmobile Skylark that was for sale on eBay some years ago.  The paint had weathered away to reveal the body solder lines where the joints for those seven pieces are:

[wayne sheldon]

Wow!

[Graham Man]

Wonder how many Hupps and Grahams were cut up to save Cords?

[wayne sheldon]

42 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

Wonder how many Hupps and Grahams were cut up to save Cords?

 

I doubt that many Hupps or Grahams were sacrificed to save Cords. From the numbers shared above, it appears there were more Cords manufactured than Hupps and Grahams combined. Although a good percentage of Cords were unusual variations or convertibles which virtually none of the Hupps and Grahams were. Not much on the Grahams and Hupps beyond the basic body panels themselves were the same as what was on the Cords. I understand nearly everything for the interior, floor pans due to drive line, hood and front end are totally different than is the Cord. I seem to recall reading some years ago that even the door mounting and mechanisms were different? But I could be wrong about that?

Graham and Hupp bodies could have donated some body panels and structures to the restoration of Cord automobiles. But that would have mostly been to the more common and less desirable of the Cords (which as far as I am concerned are very desirable automobiles!). I would think a few Hupps and Grahams donated panels and pieces needed by a Cord . However, most of those Hupps and Grahams were likely already well on their way to the scraper.

But that is mostly speculation on my part.

[Tom Boehm]

Thank you 58L-Y8 for posting the picture of the paintless Hupp Skylark roof. Every magazine story about the Skylark and the Hollywood mentions the Cord tooling was not suitable for mass production. They all mention the multiple stampings required for the roof. It is really cool to see picture proof of that often repeated fact. 

[58L-Y8]

1 hour ago, Tom Boehm said:

Thank you 58L-Y8 for posting the picture of the paintless Hupp Skylark roof. Every magazine story about the Skylark and the Hollywood mentions the Cord tooling was not suitable for mass production. They all mention the multiple stampings required for the roof. It is really cool to see picture proof of that often repeated fact. 

Tom:

You are welcome!  Nothing like good photos to document the difficulty of the body construction methods Cord had to go to creating an apparent 'one-piece' top.  Ebay used to be a good source such photos when more projects and parts cars were auctioned on the site.

Steve

[Graham Man]

In the Graham circles we would hear about Hollywood's going down for Cord restorations.  I don't blame them, if the fenders alone were good I would use them, the Grahams sold for pennies compared to the Cords.

 

From the known serial numbers it looks like Graham built about 1800+ Hollywood cars and another 400ish Hupp (that includes supercharged and non supercharged cars , Models 107, 109 1940 and 109 and 113 in 1941).

 

134 Graham cars are documented to still exist in the GOCI records and another 15 Hupp, my guess is the total number of Hupp and Graham  would exceed Cord, or be vary close, either way it is a testament to a great looking Cord 810/812 design.

 

The Hollywood had a great looking dash

 

Supercharged model had an engine turned dash

 

 

 

 

[8E45E]

55 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

The Hollywood had a great looking dash

 

Supercharged model had an engine turned dash

 

And I see a 1940 Studebaker radio!!

 

Craig

[alsancle]

10 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

And I see a 1940 Studebaker radio!!

 

Craig

 

The radio in the Graham is identical to the one in the Studebaker with the exception of the "S".   The photo shows a Studebaker radio installed in a Graham dash.  My advice to the owner would be to take a drummel and carefully remove the "S".   That is what I did.

[George Albright]

I just bought an older restoration 1941 Hupmobile skylark thanks to the AACA family finding it for me. Amazing! George albright Ocala Florida gnalbright@gmail.com 

[George Albright]

[George Albright]

[George Albright]

[George Albright]

[DrumBob]

Very nice! 

[m-mman]

On 3/29/2022 at 1:52 PM, Graham Man said:

From the known serial numbers it looks like Graham built about 1800+ Hollywood cars and another 400ish Hupp (that includes supercharged and non supercharged cars , Models 107, 109 1940 and 109 and 113 in 1941).

What was the dealership structure like for these cars?  

I assume that there were Graham dealers (few?) but was there a Huppmobile dealer network?  Or were the two sold side by side? 

Were they offered in dual dealers? 

I have seen the Hollywood brochure, but I have never seen a Skylark brochure. 

[Graham Man]

George,

    Beautiful Hupp, did you get the overdrive option?

[8E45E]

Hupmobile's improvement was installing opening vent windows on the rear doors, which permitted the window to lower fully.

 

PURE speculation for 1942 model year changes, had the '40/'41' Hollywood and Skylark been successful for both companies: 

 

-Sealed beam headlights mounted outboard, recessed into the fenders as per industry trend.

-Thinner center windshield divider bar.

-Much larger one-piece rear window.

-Rectangular taillights integrated into the rear fenders.

 

Craig

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, m-mman said:

I assume that there were Graham dealers (few?) but was there a Huppmobile dealer network? 

 

The Hupp dealer network had at one time been huge. By 1941, no doubt it was getting really thin. The flow of cars had been uneven and slow for various reasons for several years, and the Skylark was also delayed. I think it likely that anyone who still had Hupp in 1940 or 41 was also selling something else, though if it was Graham, that was probably just a coincidence.

[Graham Man]

[Bryan G]

Faint brush with greatness, my father once owned a Graham-Paige...rototiller!

 

[8E45E]

18 minutes ago, Graham Man said:

Designed by Hupmobile????

 

Craig

Edited March 31, 2022 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Graham Man]

 

Completely different grill, and bumper....someone must have designed it...

[wayne sheldon]

2 hours ago, George Albright said:

 

Wow George A! Although they are a bit more modern than my real interests in automobiles, I have always been a bit enamored with both the Skylark and Hollywood cars. And that one is a beauty!

[alsancle]

The history of the Cord body dies is documented in a number of places.   I forget the name of the guy that bought them at auction,  but Hupp signed up first,  built 20 or so hand built cars in 1939 and then went to Graham to build them.     The Graham Hollywood was more expensive of the two,  but besides the engine and trim details the two cars are identical.    All the cars were built in the spring summer of 1940, with a 2 week layover to make the 41 model changes.   As far as I can figure out, the only difference between a 40 and 41 Hollywood is dash is engine turn on 40, and striped on 41.

 

There were of course 2-5 convertibles built of the Hollywood, and at least one Hupp.

[8E45E]

8 hours ago, Graham Man said:

 

Completely different grill, and bumper....someone must have designed it...

Was it designed by an in-house Graham designer, or a Hupmobile designer as it was shared between both marques?   Or was it designed under contract by an independent individual like Gordon Buehrig, Alex de Sakhnoffsky, or someone else, since neither company had much in the way of design staff by the time the Hollywood and the Skylark were introduced?

 

If there had been enough development money between both automakers, they would have had completely different fronts to differentiate the two from each other; each company commissioning their own design.

 

Craig

[alsancle]

Just now, 8E45E said:

Was it designed by an in-house Graham designer, or a Hupmobile designer as it was shared between both marques?   Or was it designed under contract by an independent individual like Gordon Buehrig, Alex de Sakhnoffsky, or someone else, since neither company had much in the way of design staff by the time the Hollywood and the Skylark were introduced?

 

If there had been enough development money between both automakers, they would have had completely different fronts to differentiate the two from each other; each company commissioning their own design.

 

Craig

 

John Tjaarda, designer of the Lincoln Zephyr, was commissioned to facelift the Cord dies.

[8E45E]

6 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

John Tjaarda, designer of the Lincoln Zephyr, was commissioned to facelift the Cord dies.

Thanks!

 

I couldn't remember who had the design input on the restyled front, but I knew it was not entirely a Hupmobile effort as their advertising implied.  

 

Craig