Chris Bamford Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) I would like to replace the drive chains on my 1906 Orient Buckboard. Chain pitch is 1" with a sprocket thickness of just under 1/2". Standard #80 chain is 1" pitch but is wider (5/8" sprocket) and worse, is not compatible with the 1906 tooth shape, which is both higher and wider. Photos and dimensions follow, all comments and suggestions most welcome... Edited March 9, 2022 by Chris Bamford (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George K Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 R M Fowler Ltd. Only source I could find for obsolete drive chain. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 It might be eiser to have new sprockets made if you have trouble finding chain. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) Wonder if old framing equipment of that era used the same style, I'd check with old tractor clubs. New sprockets with modern chain will be costly. Bob Edited March 9, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Since he already needs the chain take that cost out of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
63RedBrier Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Hi, Chris! Is the chain worn to the point of not being usable? Is it slipping/jumping a tooth? Looks like there is a way of tightening the chain. Or, can you remove a link to tighten it up? Just trying to help... Good luck! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 You might try here: The Diamond Chain Company | Roller Chain Manufacturer | Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Hey there Chris B ! I wish I had something good to offer. But the few people I knew years ago that sourced special chain, a few of them are gone now, and another I know the source he used has since gone away (I asked him about it almost ten years ago, and his source was already gone). That chain doesn't look too good, does it. It appears to have been cleaned up from a bit too rusty. But I find myself wondering. How badly worn is it? Has the length stretched enough to cause troubles? I have seen worn chains that couldn't pull properly because the cumulative wear of each and every link and pin and hole caused the chain to bunch up going around the large sprocket. That causes the chain to climb on the pull side of the large sprocket and can ruin the sprockets if they are good (and what I can see of the sprocket in your picture does look good) I did some looking at a project some years back that was going to need new chains. Some research I did at the time, I found a combination of two sizes of chains that I could have taken completely apart, and reassembled alternating pieces from a larger and smaller size chain to get a combined length and pitch that looked like it would work. I ended up not getting the project, so never actually had to do the work. I don't know if something like that could be found for yours or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 16 hours ago, 1937hd45 said: Wonder if old framing equipment of that era used the same style, I'd check with old tractor clubs. New sprockets with modern chain will be costly. Bob Never did see no Carpenter Framing with no chain pilgrim. 🤪 I've worked on a lot of old farm equipment and have never seen any chain like that. Dandy Dave! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Diamond Chain supplied us with new chains for an early American LaFrance we worked on. Worth a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) Thank you George, Franklin, 37HD, RedBrier, Mark, Wayne, Dave & Restorer. I'm grateful for all your comments and suggestions. I've emailed both RM Fowler and Diamond Chain to inquire further. That Fowler outfit in the UK looks particularly promising... the 'double-roller' chain they supplied for an 1892 Peugeot (bottom of their webpage HERE) looks like just the ticket. I showed the chain and sprockets to a couple knowledgeable vintage-ag folks last night and they didn't recognize it. Having said that, we have an excellent auto and agricultural museum close by and I'll run it past their restoration shop just in case. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Some more background info on the car and my chain quest for those interested: I've owned the Orient for 27 years; it's been a runner and driven every one of those years. The car is apart now for a general fettling, and one of the issues I hope to correct are weak drive chains. Whether the chains were weak by design or from age (or a combination thereof) they are a safety concern I would like to address. With the CVT friction-drive transmission (drawing below) the reverse range makes a very handy service brake, easy to modulate and more effective than the single 5" x 1" drum the factory provided from new (mine is early-1906 production; they soon went to a two drum system). Trouble is, a sharp application of reverse for braking can result in a broken chain pin and, thus, no brakes at all beyond that one little ol' drum. Voice of experience here—twice—and of course one doesn't generally apply the reverse brake sharply without good reason. Fresh underwear please! This car was 'restored' from a complete original around 1955 and proudly sports badges from Hershey 1955 and 1956 plus several other regional meets in the later '50s. My intention is to preserve whatever 1906 finishes remain (mostly underneath and within) and the exterior 1955 black and red paint as a sort of time-capsule of 65 year old restoration standards. As such, the notion of adapting modern sprockets and chain, while doable, would look out of place and holds little appeal. I find the dual 116 and 67 year-old patinas charming and adamantly preserve as much of both as possible. More photos and info on my Orient HERE, and a video walk-around HERE. Thanks again for your interest and I'll update the thread as there are developments. Edited March 10, 2022 by Chris Bamford Format (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Mead Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Chris, I think you will find that your chain is called “block” chain, rather than “roller” chain. Early bicycles used it, sometimes called skip tooth chain, albeit in a smaller size. Just my 2 cents. I agree completely with your preservation sensibilities…… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bamford Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Jim Mead said: Chris, I think you will find that your chain is called “block” chain, rather than “roller” chain.… Jim, you are absolutely the man. As is so often true, getting the right answer requires asking the right question. A Google search for block chain (and wading thru all the the digital 'blockchain' references) quickly determined I am looking for B506 block chain, 1" pitch and 1/2" blocks. Apparently Curved Dash Olds use a similar product with 5/16" block width for starter chain. According to the CDO club website, the solid block type B is closest to original but the sintered blocks can break under stress. The laminated block type L is stronger and would be a better choice for my safety-critical application. Both are illustrated below. Interestingly, the 'safe working load' rating is the same for both types. It's too late in the day to get a specific price quote, but online "rack rates" are something in the order of $100/ft! Here's hoping somebody got the decimal point in the wrong spot... Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) Sourcing parts for antique machinery can be very interesting. Back in 2014 we needed new drive chains for the 1907 Lombard steam log hauler which are an odd pitch. Replacing the sprockets was not an option. Amazingly, the original supplier, Jeffrey Chain Company of Columbus, OH. is still in business as Renold USA in Morristown, TN. and generously donated a set. It was Joseph Jeffery who patented the first industrial roller chain back in 1887. Might be worth contacting them. Edited March 11, 2022 by Terry Harper (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Chris, if the "Block Chain" doesn't work out, I would also consider changing the sprockets and chain. At one time sprocket blank's were available from transmission/bearing companies. They were available in any diameter and chain pitch and the center was left blank for your application. By looking at your pictures I don't think it would be too big of a job to machine and replace the rear sprocket. The small front sprocket would be an even easier job. I would use something like number 80 chain. Once it's replaced you won't ever have to worry about it again. Hope you can find the block chain without spending $100 a foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) Even in the size used by most vintage bicycles { B-502 ?} , block chain is relatively expensive. It fell out of general use on bicycles around the time of WW2 , but it continued to be used on track racing bicycles right up to about 1960. Even at $100.00 a foot for the size your Orient uses it would be cheaper than new driven sprockets. Edited March 11, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) I think with computer aided machining, sprockets would be much less expensive than chain at $100./ft. Until it is established, the cost of sprockets, and savings in using off the shelf chain, should not be discounted offhand. Edited March 11, 2022 by JFranklin (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Drive sprocket yes, but with CAM ? are you planning on needing 250 of them ? Take a good look at the driven sprocket . That would be a pricy piece of metal to produce by any method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) For the front sprocket - Boston Gear offers Blockchain sprockets just match the size. You can get them with the hub blank. It simple, straightforward machining to have it board or broached for the shaft and the hub OD turned to match the appearance etc. of the original as close as possible. If you decide to convert to roller chain you can get a blank through the same source and have the hub machined as needed. For the rear sprocket - which presents a much more difficult challenge to preserve its appearance - one route would be to use the old sprocket as a pattern and have a blank cast. Then have new teeth cut. Ductile Iron would work well though grey would work too. (Cattail Foundry comes to mind) Again, this is presuming your converting to roller chain. Edited March 11, 2022 by Terry Harper (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now