Lahti35 Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 I spent some time practicing soldering steel over the weekend using 50/50 solder and paste flux. My initial attempts were pretty lousy so I spent some time on youtube watching videos and gave it a try again the next day. My initial solder jobs weren't pulling the solder in to the joint. I found I was heating too much and burning the flux out of the joint. After some more practice I got the solder to flow better and stick much better. My last try for the day was on some 1/8" mild steel, it flowed the best so far and I could not get it apart without really hammering a screwdriver into the joint. Still need lots of practice before I tackle the oil pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 The solder will follow the heat, so once things are heated up and solder is flowing, the torch may need to go in what seems like an unlikely place. Good luck! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 I have a 1929 Nash Advanced 6 in worse condition than your car. I also have located a Buick Marvel Carb. that is brass not pot metal. I hope to end up with a decent carb.when done with that repair. Keep up the good work....... Al 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan95 Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 I second that on the solder flowing to where the heat goes in this kind of soldering. Solder can be pushed around all day with a torch, but it will just sit on the surface unless the metal is hot enough. It also takes some practice to know when the piece is at the right temperature and how to keep it within the working window. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 25, 2022 Author Share Posted April 25, 2022 9 hours ago, alsfarms said: I have a 1929 Nash Advanced 6 in worse condition than your car. I also have located a Buick Marvel Carb. that is brass not pot metal. I hope to end up with a decent carb.when done with that repair. Keep up the good work....... Al These marvel carbs are definitely a funky setup. Mine wasn't terribly hard to rebuild but there were a lot of things that have to be right. There's lots of info I found searching here on rebuilding them and issues people had (and worked through) that were handy during my project. Thanks for the kind words and best luck to you with your Advanced 6! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 28, 2022 Author Share Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) The oil pump is back, check it out: Sounds like an electric mixer beating against the side of a stainless bowl... We've got some issues it seams. The shafts were bushed and are much tighter, the gears now sit flat in the housing. It pumps very well, lots of flow. Man it's loud though! It was so loud testing it that I would hazard a guess to say it could be heard over the engine running. I got to looking at the gears some more and it looks like this pump has two distinctly different gears in it. One seems to be the correct size while the other looks to be smaller and more blunt with a fair amount of space between the the teeth and housing. This pump had been worked on before, the screws holding the the pump cover plate are abused with mangled screwdriver slots. I can only guess at some point that the gear with the loose clearance is a factory error or a later replacement. Not sure what to do with this... spent some time looking for a set of gears but I couldn't find any specifically for an Advanced 6, those seem to be the black sheep of the Nash family. Edited April 28, 2022 by Lahti35 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 Have you turned it by hand with the cover off and watched the gears mesh? The gear on the right in your photo looks close to the pump body. I bet it will run in and quiet down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 28, 2022 Author Share Posted April 28, 2022 5 hours ago, JFranklin said: Have you turned it by hand with the cover off and watched the gears mesh? The gear on the right in your photo looks close to the pump body. I bet it will run in and quiet down. Yes, turning by hand reveals an issue also. The shorter gear seems to slam into the more pointy one as it rotates through the meshing. Backlash is at .018 which is pretty wide. Neither of the gears touch the body when rotating, the noise is coming from the gear mesh itself. I found a set online for 1920's Nash pumps but it states they do not fit the Advanced 6, however, the measurements are dead on for the shaft hole and gear face but just a hair smaller for the diameter... I may give them a try, The gear with the shorter teeth in my pump has smooth polished tips where the more pointy gear doesn't, looks like somebody ground it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 Are those the same gears that were in the pump when you sent it to Egge, or did they replace one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 28, 2022 Author Share Posted April 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, r1lark said: Are those the same gears that were in the pump when you sent it to Egge, or did they replace one? Same gears. I should have tested it before I sent it out but I didn't think about it. I'm not pointing the finger at Egge, they did what I asked and bushed the shafts, straightening the driven gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 The old fashioned technique would be to run the pump in a mixture of oil and grinding paste...lapping the gears to each other. It should not remove enough metal to make any difference in operation but will smooth out the contact points between the gears. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 28, 2022 Share Posted April 28, 2022 That just looks all wrong to me. I can't put my finger on exactly what except I agree that left gear is too far from the housing. I don't believe that is going to work well at low engine speeds or after the oil is hot. It may be time to find some other gears that have the correct outer diameter and machine them to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 Do you have a good machine shop around? I would have them measure and make new gears if you can't find any. We have a big shop that does whatever you ask and they never seem surprised at what comes in. Just writes up the order and loads a bin. Yours may wear in and quiet down. You can also test the pump in water to see how it will move thin liquid. Put a thumb over the outlet to make sure it moves with pressure. You could lap it in maybe with valve grinding compound and a drill, just for fun. If all else fails here is another thought. (From Shorpy.com) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 Your thread has me thinking about cleaning up my garage enough to get my Nash out for a drive.It is the only digital photo of it I have. It could stand a brake reline and clutch adjustment. The top bows are wrong also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 29, 2022 Author Share Posted April 29, 2022 23 hours ago, JV Puleo said: The old fashioned technique would be to run the pump in a mixture of oil and grinding paste...lapping the gears to each other. It should not remove enough metal to make any difference in operation but will smooth out the contact points between the gears. Something along those lines may be in order down the road, never say never! 18 hours ago, Bloo said: That just looks all wrong to me. I can't put my finger on exactly what except I agree that left gear is too far from the housing. I don't believe that is going to work well at low engine speeds or after the oil is hot. It may be time to find some other gears that have the correct outer diameter and machine them to fit. The more I look at it the more I think someone in the past ground down the teeth on the driven gear, I have no clue why. It would have been better for me to find another pump If I could have. Cooked shaft bore, messed up gears, barely functional relief valve, oh my! I've got a couple of options I'm working... #1 try some NORS gears I found that my fit. #2 machine a new gear using the good one as a model. I'll know by the end of next week what's going to happen. 12 hours ago, JFranklin said: Do you have a good machine shop around? I would have them measure and make new gears if you can't find any. We have a big shop that does whatever you ask and they never seem surprised at what comes in. Just writes up the order and loads a bin. We've got a few shops around. I found one that is willing to look at it, it's my last resort at this point. I've got some NORS gears coming that is very close in diameter to my current good one, if not it's off to the machine shop! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 29, 2022 Author Share Posted April 29, 2022 12 hours ago, JFranklin said: Your thread has me thinking about cleaning up my garage enough to get my Nash out for a drive.It is the only digital photo of it I have. It could stand a brake reline and clutch adjustment. The top bows are wrong also. Get the old girl out, she want's to run free... Mine isn't 100% correct either, 'bout 95%. What she doesn't know won't hurt her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobinVirginia Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 @Lahti35 Im late to the party here as I just found your topic thread today. Great pics and descriptions of your progress. I appreciate you taking time to share! Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 Lahti35: I had my 1925 Buick oil pumps re-bushed for both my Standard and Master by Reeve Enterprizes in Cazenovia NY. They did a great job, and the pressure is much better. An initial problem was that the gears were pretty worn out. A friend with several spare pumps found better gears that I was able to swap out. Of course, one needs to find spare pumps! I was going to ask about size to see if the Buick gears would work. But I see your gears are 9 teeth while the Buick ones are 16. Just checked and it seems that I repeated some of my April 3rd post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 29, 2022 Author Share Posted April 29, 2022 2 hours ago, BobinVirginia said: @Lahti35 Im late to the party here as I just found your topic thread today. Great pics and descriptions of your progress. I appreciate you taking time to share! Thanks! The party is ongoing... always 2-3 vehicles undergoing work in my shop, if you miss one party just turn 120 degrees and you're in another one! Thanks for the kind words, it's fun to share and learn on the forum. I'm always amazed what projects different folks have going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 29, 2022 Author Share Posted April 29, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, dibarlaw said: A friend with several spare pumps found better gears that I was able to swap out. Of course, one needs to find spare pumps! I was going to ask about size to see if the Buick gears would work. But I see your gears are 9 teeth while the Buick ones are 16. I'm not above using a gear with more teeth but I'm not quit there yet... I think this will be resolved in 2 weeks. That's good because it's getting dusty in the garage and I want to give the Nash a bath. It doesn't push worth beans though so it's staying in there until it can escape under it's own power. Summer is fast approaching! Edited April 29, 2022 by Lahti35 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 30, 2022 Author Share Posted April 30, 2022 I reinstalled the main switch in the dash while waiting on the oil pump conundrum... Made more wires to connect the cowl lights and dash lights from the fuse panels to the switch terminals. I split the under dash wiring into two panels, one for the ignition, dash & cowl lights and the other for the headlights/taillight/spotlight. Originally I found a 6 fuse panel and was satisfied with it, it's made of a hard board material. Some vintage car places are selling these along with ebay selllers. A bit later I went looking for a smaller 3 fuse panel and found one made by Bussmann. This panel is far superior, twice as thick and made of a stiff bakelite type material with countersunk screw holes. If you're looking for a nice fuse panel buy a Bussmann! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted April 30, 2022 Author Share Posted April 30, 2022 (edited) Last night after work I spent some time in the garage working on the cowl lights. The wiring for these was toast, most of the insulation had flaked off long ago. They were left in place when the car was painted and the final look was so-so at best. I pulled them down the components to see what I was working with. I decided the easiest course of action would be to blast them and repaint, I wasn't going to try and match paint so I picked black to match the headlight buckets and fenders. Into the blasting cabinet they went! I then painted the inside if the lights white to make them brighter, we need all the candle power we can get these days! Outside was done in gloss black. The original connectors were crimped on a tinned wire, with some careful plier use I was able to open them up for reuse. I soldered the new wire into the brass contacts and assembled the spring and rubber insulator into the cowl sockets. With both cowl lights removed and rewired it has that "My Favorite Martian" look, a couple of antennae pocking through a forehead. Once the light bodies were dry I replaced them and assembled the lenses and trim rings to finish the job. Edited April 30, 2022 by Lahti35 (see edit history) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 Wiring is one of those jobs people just never talk about. Its a pleasure following along and watching it being done right. Most excellent! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 1, 2022 Author Share Posted May 1, 2022 4 hours ago, Terry Harper said: Wiring is one of those jobs people just never talk about. Its a pleasure following along and watching it being done right. Most excellent! I do enjoy it! It's all in the details, I like that type of work. The payoff is switches that work, bright lights and good cranking! Thanks for the kind words! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 1, 2022 Author Share Posted May 1, 2022 (edited) I spent the afternoon working on a few odds & ends. One these issues was the horn button. It was sticking up proud and would catch when depressed, sometimes the horn would work more often not. Pulling it apart revealed a red fiber washer around the button to keep it from popping out of the cover. There appeared to be a space for another washer below it. I found a black fiber washer in my stash with the right ID and sanded the outside to the proper OD Fit like a glove... With the red washer at the step of the horn button and the new black washer between it and the brass contact it is centered and now has two points of contact in it's housing. It sits closer to the base and doesn't get cockeyed when depressed, beeps 100% of the time now. Had a local car show today so the Mrs. and I checked it out before lunch. Mostly muscle cars but three Model A's and two Model T's. I'd seen this center door restored on the MTFCA forum, looked nice up close. Someone had this neat Studebaker, nice to see some stock iron at the show. I didn't get pics of it but there was a survivor 1916 Harley Davidson there also, very neat. Weather was breezy and cool with cloud cover, one of these days spring will arrive! Edited May 1, 2022 by Lahti35 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 I have been following along and really admire your work on this car and your ability to break down seemingly complicated tasks into simple steps. It appears you may be local (ish) and I would love to see the Nash...and your pickup too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Share Posted May 2, 2022 Last night I hooked the new dash light wiring up to the switch and... NOTHING, lol. After some trouble shooting I determined there was no ground contact at the light and went to bed. This AM I did some poking around under the dash, removed a dash light and looked for a place it would make contact. There is a thin lip of steel over the wood frame hidden by some welting installed over it that contacts the lamp body when fully in place. In my zeal to restore the dash lights I painted the whole thing and eliminated my ground, oops! Nothing a few minutes with some sand paper and a dab of dielectric grease for longevity coudln't fix. Ta-Da! The rest of the lighting went easy, a few checks with the meter for continuity here and there and they all came to life. The taillight will have to be reworked so that both the NASH light and taillight under it work with the brake pedal also. It currently has a poorly made setup that failed long ago. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Share Posted May 2, 2022 11 hours ago, ericmac said: I have been following along and really admire your work on this car and your ability to break down seemingly complicated tasks into simple steps. It appears you may be local (ish) and I would love to see the Nash...and your pickup too. Always welcome to stop by, PM me sometime. Thanks for the compliment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 4, 2022 Author Share Posted May 4, 2022 Interesting development in the oil pump department tonight... I got my NORS gears today and compared them to my old ones, the OD was the same as the one good gear I had. You can see how much pointier they are than the rounded off gear I have... New gear on right. Next I pressed them on the shafts and the clearance to the case was much better! There is still a fair amount of backlash but it is what it is, must have been this way from the start. It's interesting that these gears were listed as replacements for 20's Nash oil pumps EXCEPT advance 6 models which is what I have... I had to hand fit them to the case, they were a bit proud. I found they were surprising soft so I was able to face them to the correct width on my lathe. It took a dozen tries to get everything to turn freely when assembled but I got it! Now the exciting part... I redid the oil flow test with the same oil and bucket as in the first video and HOLY CRAP it blew oil out like nobody's business. I could not rev the drill up to full rpm, it would have blasted oil out of the bucket all over. No comparison to the original flow test. It's much quieter than the other test now too. I put my finger over the output fitting and it took everything I had to keep it in place forcing the relief valve to open. Much less bubbling also, the first test produced a lot of bubbles and whipped into more foam as the test went on. Not so this time. I'm going to take it apart again and get new shafts made, there is a slight bend in the drive shaft and the short stub shaft has wear on one side. Hopefully I can get it put back together in two weeks... getting close. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 (edited) Fabulous news! I like it when things come together like this. Edited May 4, 2022 by dibarlaw spelling (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 15, 2022 Author Share Posted May 15, 2022 (edited) I took a few hours today between chores to work on the speedo. The one that came with the car had swelled and turned into a solid ball, nothing but the MPH indicator moved. At some point the swelling pot metal put the death grip on the insides of that and froze it up causing the drive gear to bust teeth off of it. I found a decent one on Epay and picked it up for parts. It ended up being much better then mine so I salvage what I could from the original and circular filed the rest. I noticed that Stewart Warner used the same speedo core for many makes, the one I picked up had a different trip meter reset setup but that could be swapped with my original. Epay unit on the left, original on right. The trip meter assembly comes off and is a simple matter of swapping your preferred flavor onto the case nub. The new speedo however was missing three of the gears for the trip meter... I had saved the old ones out of the original speedo so I installed them after cleaning the shaft, making sure they all moved freely. I then cleaned all the old dry grease I could get off the rest of the gears and lubed them with new grease. I would liked to have taken the whole thing apart but didn't want to risk snapping off any of the pot metal so cleaning and greasing in place will have to be good enough. Once back together I put it back in it's case and attached the face and trip meter reset assembly. I then put it back in the dash and screwed on the cable. Still looking for the Elgin dash clock but I may have one in a few days... I'm about 90% happy with the way this turned out. I'll run it and see what happens, I guess the worst it can do it lock up and eat itself like the old one. Even greased it feels like the odometer/trip meter is putting some excess resistance on the assembly when turning. I'll run it for a bit and see what happens. Fingers crossed! Luckily there doesn't seem to be a shortage of these speedo's around to Frankenstein together if need be. Edited May 15, 2022 by Lahti35 (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) Lahti: When I made a workable unit out of 4 AC speedos one thing I kick myself on, was that I assembled it and installed in the dash before I road tested it. I had speeded it with an electric drill, and all was smooth. The AC Unit is also adjustable as to position of speed wheel to drum. Also, the magnet on mine should have been recharged. It works but is 13 MPH off. Unfortunately, on the design of mine has the bezel rolled over. So, I had already made a fixture and rolled the edge before the final check. I should have hooked up the cable and tried it in the car before reinstalling the bezel. Edited May 16, 2022 by dibarlaw (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 On 5/15/2022 at 8:01 PM, dibarlaw said: Lahti: When I made a workable unit out of 4 AC speedos one thing I kick myself on, was that I assembled it and installed in the dash before I road tested it. I had speeded it with an electric drill, and all was smooth. The AC Unit is also adjustable as to position of speed wheel to drum. Also, the magnet on mine should have been recharged. It works but is 13 MPH off. Unfortunately, on the design of mine has the bezel rolled over. So, I had already made a fixture and rolled the edge before the final check. I should have hooked up the cable and tried it in the car before reinstalling the bezel. That's a handy rig you've got there, those rolled bezels are a pain in the butt. I've done a few later speedometers with a rolled bezel, not fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 21, 2022 Author Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) Thought I'd post a video of the Nash running last year before it quit on the seller when the weather got cold. You can here she's ailing! Edited May 21, 2022 by Lahti35 (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 Lahti: I have experienced the same condition when I first got my 1925 Buick out on the road. The infamous Marvel Farts! The embarrassment of not being able to get out of one's own way. Cars passing in no passing zones. WOW I was on that road going to my cousin's home in Grand Blank years ago. After sorted out you will be able to pass them! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 I got a clock! It's not a runner but it looks the part. I can't complain about the price, it was downright reasonable. Some Epay sellers are asking a mint for these so it took some time to find one priced sanely. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 (edited) I spent some time on the gas tank today. I had messed with the gauge end a while back, it's ok other than the face needing a cosmetic face lift due to some peeling paint. I can address that later. The gauge is operated by a thing wire in an armored cable running from the gauge to the sender along the inside of the driver side frame rail. I figured that the sending unit was froze up or the float was bad or both. Dropping it wasn't too bad, only two nuts at the top of the tank straps. I could tell that the sending unit had been leaking, you can see the old stain around it. A clean part is a nice part to work on so I scrubbed the gunk off the sending unit for a better looksee. You can see the thin wire that operates on the gauge with the cover removed. There is a lever inside that actuates the wire, a spring in the gauge keeps it taught. It's definitely for a Nash! I find it amazing that markings like this can survive for nearly a century. I was wrong about the sending unit being froze up, it had full range of movement with no drag. I was right about the float though, that sucker weighed a ton and stunk like vintage gas. Turns out the gaskets were shrunken and crispy, no wonder they leaked. The float is held on the arm only by the tip being mashed flat to expand it larger than a washer ID. I thought I might be able to carefully heat just the tip up to pound it round again and slide the float off whole. Why I needed to get the rotten float off in one piece 8 hours ago is lost to history but I figured I'd give it a go since the tank had been dry for months. What commenced was a nice display of pyrotechnics similar in sight and sound to several marshmallows burning over a camp fire, hence the blackened float pictured below, LOL. I had some company, she didn't think much of the gaskets either. I'll take her advice and make some new ones out of some nice pliable cork material. Since the float was gas-logged and now Bar-B-Q'd to past within an inch of it's life I decided to make a new one. I used a block of balsa and coated it three times with the same SIG dope I used on the carb float. I made the float fit snug on the arm and pounded the end flat as before to secure it. I'll give it a day to dry and put it all back together tomorrow after I cut new gaskets. Edited May 22, 2022 by Lahti35 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 Wow, that's amazing, a cable actuated gas gauge. I've never messed with early (pre-1950s) cars so didn't know that was done. Was the old float balsa wood too? How did you coat the inside of the hole thru the balsa wood with the SIG dope? I've been really enjoying your posts, looking forward to more! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 1 hour ago, r1lark said: Wow, that's amazing, a cable actuated gas gauge. I've never messed with early (pre-1950s) cars so didn't know that was done. Was the old float balsa wood too? How did you coat the inside of the hole thru the balsa wood with the SIG dope? I've been really enjoying your posts, looking forward to more! It must have been a short lived type of gas gauge, I was unable to find much info about it, couldn't find but one or two for sale either. Must have been the bridge between the stick and the electric type gauge. I cheated with the inside of the float, I used super glue. I needed something that would dry without air present. I just pumped a bunch in there and pushed it on, the gas should never get there with the SIG dope over it all but you can't be too careful! The original float was cork. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Lahti: The 1920s Buicks have the same remote set ups for the higher end cars. I have a spare fuel tank with one on. Friend Dave with his 1928 Standard Sport Touring has one. The 1923 Sport versions have it as I have a gage cluster that has that type of gage. This is what I have on my cars. Master Master Standard Long rod with float and pointer I redid the floats with Nitrophyl ones from a Model A Ford supplier. The former owner had a large cork with a Romex wire staple holding it on. Quite heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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