Need advice on stripping down chassis

[22touring]

I figured out what the problem was.  Three of the four brake control rods (the rods that run between the differential and the brake spider) had both the 3/16" solid pin and the 3/16" key holding the operating levers to the rod, as Horace Dodge designed it (Horace certainly didn't want to see any DB brake failures).  On one of the rods, however, "somebody had already been in there" and had omitted the solid pins when re-assembling, instead using only the keys.  At first I couldn't figure out that there was just no pin in there.

 

Those 3/16" solid pins were difficult to pound out.  I really had to beat on them to get them loose and was afraid that I might break something.

 

I got the differential, axles, propellor shaft and brake spiders disassembled as much as possible, while taking careful notes and pictures.  Now I'm going to sandblast the assembly.  I'm going to try to block all the orifices and entry points that might allow sand to get inside the unit.  Has anybody else out there ever done this before?  Can you give me any advice for keeping the sand out?

Edited July 28, 2022 by 22touring
addition (see edit history)

[22touring]

I learned the hard way (by restoring the front leaf springs and making all the mistakes you can make) how to restore leaf springs most efficiently, and am using this method in doing the rear 3/4-elliptic springs:

 

Disassemble the spring and blast all the flat surfaces.  Don't try to blast the edges yet because it will waste too much sand and air.  Bolt the leaves together.  Now blast the edges of the leaves.  Hang the assembled spring up, mask the end bushings, prime and paint it.  Disassemble it again, paint the bare flat surfaces with liquid graphite and hang the individual leaves up to dry.  When the graphite is dry, assemble the spring again.

Edited July 28, 2022 by 22touring
addition (see edit history)

[Ron Lawson]

10 hours ago, 22touring said:

I learned the hard way (by restoring the front leaf springs and making all the mistakes you can make) how to restore leaf springs most efficiently, and am using this method in doing the rear 3/4-elliptic springs:

 

Disassemble the spring and blast all the flat surfaces.  Don't try to blast the edges yet because it will waste too much sand and air.  Bolt the leaves together.  Now blast the edges of the leaves.  Hang the assembled spring up, mask the end bushings, prime and paint it.  Disassemble it again, paint the bare flat surfaces with liquid graphite and hang the individual leaves up to dry.  When the graphite is dry, assemble the spring again.

T was told by an old fella mechanic that you never lubricate the spring leaves 

[ArticiferTom]

From Mechanics Book

[22touring]

I took my steering box to an excellent local machinist, who took the slop out of the worm/wormwheel mesh.  Everything was in good condition except that the original slots in the brass eccentric bushing did not provide a correct mesh.  He cut a new slot in the eccentric bushing and made a new locating pin with an offset.  The wormwheel is cut so that at 4 different positions around it, the mesh is about 2 thousandths tighter than on the rest of the wormwheel.  The steering is supposed to be centered when the wormwheel is at one of these 4 points.  On my steering box, one of those 4 points is better than the others, so I am going to choose that one for the final set-up.  Since the drag link is not adjustable in length, I guess the only way to do that is to rotate the wormwheel to the correct position.

 

He also bored out the inner diameter of the second gear on the countershaft to fit the roller bearing countershaft and broached a new keyway in it.  He said the gear material was extremely hard, and he had to use every trick in the book in order to machine it.  Since the lateral position of the new gear is slightly different from that of the old-type gear, it was also necessary to make a thin shim for the countershaft in order to move the gear into the correct position.  

Edited July 29, 2022 by 22touring (see edit history)

[22touring]

Ron Lawson wrote:  I was told by an old fella mechanic that you never lubricate the spring leaves

 

Of course our early DB cars have no shock absorbers, so some people don't like to lubricate the spring leaves because creating friction between them reduces rebound.  However, it also tends to wear the springs out and sometimes to break them (leaves will get rusted together, and then when you go over a big bump sometime one of the springs will break at that point).  I want to keep my springs leaves well-lubricated and in good condition, so I am prepared to tolerate all the rebound.  

[RAH]

On 12/29/2021 at 6:32 AM, 22touring said:

Concerning removal of the brake pedal from the clutch cover: I thought for sure that nearchoctown would know the answer.  I wish I could ping somebody like Rodger "Dodger" Hartley or Bob Scafani with the question, because they know everything.  (Of course I could send them a message, but I hate to bother the poor guys every time I encounter a problem.)

Sorry to be tardy with this. I have been 'Off Line' with problems at home. In '19 ish DB changed the clutch pedal linkage from a direct connect to the shaft to a 'compound' type where the lever sticking up for the pedal fastens to another short link below and shaft that goes inside to operate the clutch. This may be pointed out in that 'Mechanics Instruction Manual' or in a copy of the Owners Manual. Perhaps it may be clear in the Lubrication Chart. I do hope you are taking copiuus photos and a notebook full of notes.  Remember if it was EASY anyone could do it!  Good Luck!

[RAH]

Also in the rear end, etc. some of those pins you are trying to get out may be tapered pins and will only come out opposite from where they were inserted then rounded off on the other end.  In other words they didn't see any need to remove them for service. 

[RAH]

On 7/9/2022 at 5:32 PM, 22touring said:

The Master Parts List, at page 134, says there is supposed to be a front body to frame pad on top of each frame rail on both sides, so 2 part nos. 19640 for the front of the frame.  Then it says there are supposed to be center and rear body to frame pads on each side; all 4 of those were the same, part no. 3612.  I'd like to know about how long part nos. 19640 and 3612 were.  Are they all supposed to be located at the body-to-frame bolts? Anybody have a picture of the body to frame pads installed on a frame? Thank you.

22touring, I think you will find the long pad like in your picture from Myers goes on top of the frame full length in the area where the running board splash shields go up over it. Then there are individual pads of a heavier material (appx. 2x4") that go where the body bolts go on top of those splash shields. There are a pair all the way at the rear of the body on each side as well as those body bolts in the flat surface of the frame ahead of the curve down where those splash shields go. I hope this helps.  RAH

[22touring]

Hi Rodger.  I'm glad you joined the discussion.

 

I've got the rear axle and differential assembly all stripped down for sandblasting, but I've got a bunch of other parts I need to blast first.  Those 3/4-elliptic rear leaf springs have lots of surface area and take a long time.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by 22touring (see edit history)

[RAH]

On 7/29/2022 at 10:21 PM, RAH said:

22touring, I think you will find the long pad like in your picture from Myers goes on top of the frame full length in the area where the running board splash shields go up over it. Then there are individual pads of a heavier material (appx. 2x4") that go where the body bolts go on top of those splash shields. There are a pair all the way at the rear of the body on each side as well as those body bolts in the flat surface of the frame ahead of the curve down where those splash shields go. I hope this helps.  RAH

22touring, You will not need to do anything with those long straps or the body bolt pads until you are completely finished with the chassis AND the body. When you are ready to install the body I would first install the running board splash aprons over those long straps (three screws on each side LOOSELY) and have the body supported above the frame with just enough clearance to insert those individual pads and bolts (Down from inside the body). I would not tighten any of those body bolts OR the radiator mounting bolts up front until all the pushing and shoving gets the doors to close properly AND the hood to close on both sides at cowl and radiator shell spacing looks good. By the way for what it's worth I went over to an industrial supply house and procured a square foot of commercial belting. It was about 3/8 inch thick and cut it into the rectangular pads for the body bolt areas.  Good Luck and keep up the good work.

[22touring]

I'm starting to get a swollen head now that all the DB experts from around the world have chimed into my thread to offer advice on my restoration!

 

Speaking of DB experts, did I ever tell you about the time, back in about 1985, when I bought my touring car after it had been in storage for a long time, I joined the DB Club and saw Bob Scafani's name on the roster?  I was then living in Berkeley, CA and Bob lived in the Fremont area, maybe about 25 miles away, so I decided to drive over to his house. The car drove flawlessly there and back, except that the original top tried to self-destruct on the way over, and as I remember Bob and I had to apply a lot of duct tape to prevent further damage on the way home.  Here are a couple of pictures from that occasion.  It was really a pleasure to meet Bob, and he was extremely helpful to me.  Besides which, he's the DB Knowledge King!  I'll never be as smart as he is!  (OK, I guess that's enough ingratiation; I don't want to overdo it.)  However, Bob seems to be rather reclusive.  Or maybe he just thinks I'm an idiot.  Whichever, my ambition is to have him post a message in this thread, too!

[22touring]

My rear axle seals were leaking pretty badly, and both sets of brakes on both sides were quite oily.  However, even though they were oily, they were actually working.  I'm going to buy 5 gallons of naphtha from Tractor Supply, and before adding it to my parts washer I'm going to wash all the brake shoes in the clean solvent and call it good.

 

I ordered new axle seals from Myers.  Can anybody tell me if there's some trick to installing them?  I could find in neither the Book of Instruction nor the Mechanic's Instruction Manual anything about doing it.  I also searched for threads on this forum, but couldn't find one that explains how.  Could anybody please clue me in?  Thanks again.  

[22touring]

I got the chassis pretty much completed, and am going back to work on the body, which is coming along nicely so far.  It would be nice to be able to shoot the color coat within the reasonably near future.

[22touring]

So I decided that I was just not getting the full and complete Dodge Bros. restoration experience unless I were to pull the rear end back in order to remove the transmission again.  I just wanted to see if I could do the Rodger Hartley method, where you remove only the front rear spring shackle, or if I would have to remove both front and rear shackles and drop the leaf springs down completely.  I found that it was too hard when removing only the front shackles, so it was easier to drop the springs completely.  OF COURSE this extra work had NOTHING TO DO WITH my having installed the clutch incorrectly the first time.  It's just that I really WANTED a major interruption to my DB resto, which had theretofore been going along pretty well.  I MEANT to do it that way!

 

For further information on this subject matter, see:

 

Here's the setup I'm using to pull the transmission back:

  

[22touring]

I used an engine hoist to remove the transmission, but it was inconvenient because it got in the way, making it necessary to lower the trans to the floor and drag it out. So I tried using overhead ropes (one in the front and one in the back, to be able to level it out) and a come-along when re-installing it, and that worked much better.  I think one should completely install the clutch shaft and release fork on the bench before installing the transmission because it is much easier than doing it later, and in order to avoid (ahem) dropping one of the Woodruff keys, keepers or set screws down into the bell housing and (ahem) not being able to find it. You do have to install the brake pedal lever when assembling the clutch release shaft, but it doesn't really get in the way of the installation.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by 22touring (see edit history)

[Machinist_Bill]

Your shop is entirely too clean & organized! AND you work too fast!

 

You're making me feel bad....... LOL

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Bill

[22touring]

18 hours ago, Machinist_Bill said:

Your shop is entirely too clean & organized! AND you work too fast! You're making me feel bad....... LOL Keep up the good work! Bill

It's taking longer than I would like it to, Bill.  And I have another restoration on the back burner until I complete the DB.

[22touring]

My late '22 touring car has the divided windshield with the pivoting sash, and I am having a really hard time installing the outside caps and nuts on the pivot bearing shafts because I can't seem to compress the springs enough to get any threads on the pivot shafts when I install all the parts that you are supposed to.  Does this sound right, or have I assembled it incorrectly?  And is it normal to have to compress the spring while you thread on the cap nut?  How do you compress it? 

[22touring]

Say Brothers, on a 4-cylinder car there is a sheet metal clamp on the armored cable that goes from the battery to the starter switch, which holds the armored cable in position so it won't flop around or get caught in the pedals.  Where is that clamp supposed to be located?  (I should have taken a picture of this.) Thank you.

 

Later edit: it turns out that the main purpose of this clamp is to hold the armored cable in position so it won't interfere with the accelerator linkage. There is not too much clearance between them.  Both the gas pedal mounting bolts and the toeboard mounting bolts should only be tightened after the gas pedal linkage and the toeboard have been moved upward in their mounting holes as far as possible.

Edited October 31, 2022 by 22touring
correction (see edit history)

[22touring]

The throttle linkage does not clear the positive battery cable unless one moves the top floorboard up as far as it will go and then bolts it down firmly.  But one cannot bolt the top floorboard down until the oil pressure line is first installed.  But one cannot install the oil pressure line until the dashboard is in place.  Old cars surely are a lot of fun.  

[22touring]

Thanks for all your help, Nat.

 

There is a copper line going from a junction at the right lower rear of the engine which goes up the inside of the firewall and is permanently connected to the oil pressure gauge.  That copper line goes through a cutout in the leading edge of the top floorboard, and has padding around it where it goes through that cutout. You've got to run the oil pressure line through the cutout before you can bolt the top floorboard down. Since the copper line is soldered to the rear of the oil pressure gauge, you have to install the oil pressure gauge in the dashboard before you feed the copper line through the floorboard cutout.

 

The DB electrical system will work whether connected positive ground or negative ground.  Sometime roughly around when my car was made, they switched from negative ground to positive ground.  I don't know for sure whether my car was originally positive or negative ground, but the previous owner had connected it negative ground and I left it that way because it works fine.

Edited October 31, 2022 by 22touring
correction (see edit history)

[22touring]

The odometer/trip odometer shaft of the Northeast Electric speedometer on my '22 is seized, and I am trying to disassemble it to free up that shaft and to lubricate everything. I have removed all the screws, but the front and back halves don't seem to want to come apart.  Any tips for disassembling this speedo? Thanks!

[22touring]

I did get the Northeast Electric speedometer apart and then cleaned and lubed everything.  It seems to be looking good and working now.

 

The cylindrical sheet metal body of my old gas tank was too rusted out, so I removed it and welded a new sheet metal body to the old tank ends and then low-temp brazed around the entire seam at both ends, using a jet fluxer to get complete penetration of the brass.  I was able to re-use the old threaded stem for the tank filler, but the threaded stem for the gas gauge was too far gone.  I've cut and mitered the 2"-diameter stem, but I need to thread it before brazing it onto the tank, and I'm not clear on its thread pitch.  Would anybody know the thread pitch specs for the gas gauge stem (i.e., where the threaded lock ring for the fuel gauge threads onto it?)  It's somewhere in the range of 20 - 28 TPI, but I can't measure it accurately enough to be sure. Thanks again.

 

Later edit: next time I go into town, I'll have to go to the hardware store and buy a thread gauge.

 

Got a thread gauge, and the 2" gas gauge neck seems to be threaded at 24 TPI.

Edited June 27, 2023 by 22touring
correction (see edit history)

[22touring]

I had trouble getting the accelerator pedal linkage to operate correctly, but by assembling everything "Just So" I was finally able to get about 1/16" - 1/8" of clearance between the linkage and the positive battery cable, with full opening of the carburetor butterfly.

 

However, I haven't been able to get enough clearance between the distributor advance linkage and the exhaust pipe at the rear passenger side of the engine.  The end of the lever hits the exhaust pipe.  I need only a tiny bit more clearance between them.  I think I'm going to try loosening up the head pipe nut and the bolts where the exhaust pipe attaches to the frame, and then see if maybe I can angle the exhaust pipe a little more upward.

 

Here's a picture of how they interfere.  Suggestions would be appreciated.

 

 

 

[JayG]

Here’s the linkage on my 25

Edited November 16, 2022 by JayG (see edit history)

[22touring]

Hah, I think I installed it backwards, JayG!!  Thank you so much.  I'll go out to the shop and try installing it the way you've got yours.

[22touring]

Can anyone tell me how to remove the door latches from the doors on a 4-cylinder car? Thanks again.

[JayG]

The outside bezel unscrews. You can see notches in it to allow for this.  The mechanism is held to the foot by 7 screws. 2 on the edge and 3 to the door frame. My pi’s might help. Jay

[JayG]

[22touring]

Right you are again, JayG!  Thanks for saving my bacon.

 

I still need a couple of small items in order to complete what I would like to be a correct restoration. First, I need a new hood for the instrument panel light. I'm attaching a picture of the hood that came with my car, which is broken and I am trying to repair with brass, but am not sure if I'm going to be able to. I would like to buy a new hood that is in better condition.

 

Also, I'm missing one of the wire terminal connecting caps for the Northeast Electric horn.

 

I would greatly appreciate it if anybody might sell these to me.  Thanks.

 

Edit: I forgot; it's not going to be a totally correct restoration because I can't really afford to buy a new honeycomb radiator.  The original radiator fell apart years ago and I replaced the radiator core with a modern one for a fork lift that fit perfectly.

 

Later Edit: it turned out that Myers Early Dodge parts had the instrument panel light hood in stock!  Tom and Cindy, you rock!

Edited December 1, 2022 by 22touring
correction (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

So I am curious, what is the "next" restoration waiting behind this Dodge touring car?  I also have a late 1922 Dodge touring car waiting in line for restoration behind another ongoing restoration.

Al

[22touring]

It's my 1960 Porsche 356B coupe that has a 912 motor and a 741 (late style) transmission, Al. It is completely disassembled and the body has been media blasted with new floors and perimeter kit installed.  It's in epoxy primer on a rotisserie. 

[22touring]

"Of course the sand will get between the leaves." 

 

No, because you're going to be disassembing the springs again to apply the liquid graphite, so you can brush off any sand between the leaves then.

[22touring]

Did the back of the door latches leave the factory painted, bare metal or ??

 

"I've seen a lot more harm than good come from sandblasting."

 

Yes, my outdoor sandblasting unit is quite powerful. Sometimes it will even make sparks when the sand hits the metal, and it does dimple the surface a little bit. But it sure does remove paint and rust quickly and well, and the dimpling gives the primer a wonderful surface to adhere to. Normally one thick coat of primer will level out the dimpling. I try to use sandblasting only for the big pieces that won't fit in my cabinet blaster, where I use a better kind of blasting media and recycle it.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by 22touring
correction (see edit history)

[22touring]

So if a fellow sandblasted his Dodge Bros. front fenders, but then Life Intervened and he didn't get them painted right away so they developed slight-to-moderate surface rust, should this fellow just give them another light sandblasting before painting, or can anybody suggest an alternative preferable method of dealing with the surface rust? 

[nat]

     Check out "Ospo".     http://www.ospho.com/

[nat]

You can get it in quarts or gallons.  A gallon goes a long, long way.

[Minibago]

There are plenty of rust converters available, perfect for light surface rust.

Fertan is one.

 

[22touring]

I took the fan pulley from my single-unit 4-cylinder engine to the machinist because it was wobbling, and I thought its inner diameter was wallowed out.  However, the machinist pointed out that the pulley's I.D. is just fine, and it is the front end of the water pump shaft that is beaten down.  So I really need to replace the water pump shaft. I've bought a new one from Tom and Cindy Myers, am ready to install it, and sure wish another Brother would give me a short lesson on how to do so. I have read the Mechanic's Instruction Manual and have searched this forum, but haven't found any instructions for doing the job.  Once I've removed the shaft, I guess I've got to press the impeller off it?  And I'm going to need to break the starter/generator chain in order to remove the shaft, right?  Any tips for maintaining the correct camshaft and distributor timing when doing so?  Thanks again.

Edited April 21, 2023 by 22touring
correction (see edit history)