Broken horn's wire in steering column tube

[Buickboy58]

Hi all, got another problem, the wire for the horn coming in the steering column tube broke when I remove the steering, does someone know how to get at it.

Thanks

[60s GM Fan]

If its anything like my 54 was you have to disassemble the entire column to get to the brass ring.

[lambert494]

Here’s a few pictures of a 54. The wire runs through the steering shaft and comes out through an opening about halfway down and connects onto this contact. It’s soldered on. The outer casing has to be removed to access it. Hope this helps 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by lambert494 (see edit history)

[Buickboy58]

3 hours ago, lambert494 said:

Here’s a few pictures of a 54. The wire runs through the steering shaft and comes out through an opening about halfway down and connects onto this contact. It’s soldered on. The outer casing has to be removed to access it. Hope this helps 

 

 

 

 

That is a lot of work just to fix that darn wire. Thanks.

[avgwarhawk]

55 minutes ago, Buickboy58 said:

That is a lot of work just to fix that darn wire. Thanks.

 

Yeah it sure is.   Those engineers need to repair some of the things they design!   Give them an idea of some of the nightmares. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

2 hours ago, Buickboy58 said:

That is a lot of work just to fix that darn wire. Thanks.

 

 That is why there are dash mounted aftermarket buttons available.

 

  Ben

[60s GM Fan]

My wire didn't snap on my 54 but I had to use a punch and hammer down the brass sleeve to get my horn to function properly.  Beforehand every time I turned the wheel it would sound the horn.  Makes for an embarrassing trip to the store.

[Wayne R]

Like Ben says, after market  switch available, i guess it depends if you want  as factory,  or just a horn 

to use alternative., A portable push button  starter  switch  for when tuning your car, i used that 

on my wives corolla ,as i mounted a set of Buick 1988 4 note factory horns  on it A-C-D-F ,and it is a blast.

The Santa Fa train sound blast.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Wayne R (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

Here is one that is a lot closer to what you would face:  56 Super horn repair

 

From what I heard yours is easier than mine because your brake master cylinder is not in play like mine was. 

 

[364nailhead]

Here's Mudbone video!

 

[Buickboy58]

16 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 That is why there are dash mounted aftermarket buttons available.

 

  Ben

I'm thinking about a wireless horn. lol

[old-tank]

6 hours ago, 364nailhead said:

Here's Mudbone video!

 

Good video of course, but it did not detail replacement of the brass bushing (actually a commutator that a brush rides on).  Additional information from my WEBSITE.  I use the plumbing fixture with good results.

[KAD36]

^- X2 on good results.  The plumbing part that fits on a 55 is a 1 inch “through” sleeve or 3/4 - 1 inch reducer with the 3/4 inch end cut off, then cement it to the insulator after the wire is soldered to it - helps it stay in position and align with the “wiper” button that mounts to the steering column to complete the circuit to the horn relay.  If the insulator is dry rotted or has shrunk so the fit inside the sleeve isn’t snug, you can make up the difference with some tape or piece of thin inner tube or card stock.. The copper is overkill sturdier than the original brass factory part if that part is unsalvageable.  Beastly R&R job but you have a number of documented fixes here and it’s worth it if original horn ring operation is important to you.  Personally after going with the easy  button under the column for quite a few years (short in the column made it stay on all the time) it was nice to not have to reach down to hit it.  Good luck!

 

Correcting my post. JDs post was a reminder that your car has a rag joint which makes R&R much easier than 55 and earlier models that had continuous shaft from gearbox to steering wheel.  

Edited September 11, 2021 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[Buickboy58]

I'm thinking about a wireless horn.

I think if I can get the wire out of the opening where the horn connection with a small hook, without removing the steering column, I think it would work, if this works all I need is to soldered another piece of wire and push it back with a rigid wire.  

[KAD36]

1 hour ago, Buickboy58 said:

I'm thinking about a wireless horn.

Isn't that called yelling….

 

As long as one end of your broken wire is still soldered to the brass ring it sound reasonable - the bend stress on the wire right at the solder joint at the brass ring is usually where the break happens.  If the loose piece you have is shorter than the distance to the wiper button in the column  you might get lucky…..

[old-tank]

2 hours ago, Buickboy58 said:

I'm thinking about a wireless horn.

I think if I can get the wire out of the opening where the horn connection with a small hook, without removing the steering column, I think it would work, if this works all I need is to soldered another piece of wire and push it back with a rigid wire.  

You're going to miss out on all the fun!

[364nailhead]

Time and patience, do it right.

[Buickboy58]

2 hours ago, KAD36 said:

Isn't that called yelling….

 

As long as one end of your broken wire is still soldered to the brass ring it sound reasonable - the bend stress on the wire right at the solder joint at the brass ring is usually where the break happens.  If the loose piece you have is shorter than the distance to the wiper button in the column  you might get lucky…..

The wire is still soldered to the brass ring so I might be lucky.

[JohnD1956]

The horn button at the steering wheel end is held in place by a spring on top of a non conductive washer. You won't be able to pull the wire out of the steering wheel end. And that wire needs to be a certain length so that the spring holds it in place while assembling the horn ring. 

You have a rag joint between the column and the steering gear. This wasn't as hard as it appears.  It is a good winter project.  A few hours to disassemble the column from the car. A few hours to tear the column down, fix the wire and bushing, and reassemble the column. Then   probably less than an hour to reinstall the column. The whole thing may be faster if there is a connector for the signal lights as opposed to my 56 where the signal light wires went directly into the back of the fuse box. All my 56 wires came off with gentle prying and none of them broke.  And it is much more convenient to have the horn ring function as intended as opposed to reaching for that remotely located button.

[Buicknutty]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:54 PM, Buickboy58 said:

That is a lot of work just to fix that darn wire. Thanks.

That's for sure. I need to do this to my '56 Roadie but have been to chicken to get into it.

Keith

[Buicknutty]

 I had an interesting Buick day. This morning I drove the Reatta into town to get some bulbs for behind the dash in the Electra, and since it was a nice morning, I decided to give the Reatta the job. Only about 20 miles round trip, but very pleasant, and there were many other vintage cars out and about today too.

 

 The story with the Electra is that I recently got the radio for it back fromm being repaired. It had totally quit late last year. A gent in my old neighbourhood repairs these so I took it to him, as he has a lot of experience and a good rep. Naturally the capacitors were going bad as well, so it got the whole nine yards of work. However now the rear speakers work, which they never have for me since I bought it.

 However, what a job. Oh my. I hope I never have to do this again. Though it now works well, and sounds very good. As part and parcel of the work on it I changed the clock too, and a small panel on the front of the dash which someone in the past had scratched up. So far the clock seems to be keeping good time.

 Also the heater control valve wasn't working properly and the AC guy disconnected it so that the AC would work properly, though the heater won't work in the cool weather, so I had a replacement and that is now on.

 As a reward, after supper me and my son went for a cruise in it, around 20 miles or so as well.

Keith

 

[mrspeedyt]

keep in mind… these cars are only intended to last seven years.

[Smartin]

I've got the same problem in my 58 Roadmaster.  Dreading pulling the column.  Might do it this Winter when I have half the interior out for other fun stuff.

[mrspeedyt]

on my 52 buick i took the easy way out. push button in dash. hooked to a pair of those small air horns/tiny compressor. super loud… would wake the dead. (just had to remember where that button was located.) of course the best single location is the steering wheel center horn button. second best is the horn ring. 

 

IF my memory is correct… on my 59 hillman…  (maybe it was my fiat…) came with a factory stock hole in the hollow steering shaft just forward of the rearmost steering column shaft support. had a few winds of a very flexible fine braid wire that was wrapped around the shaft about four turns. enough to easily play out as you turned the steering wheel lock to lock. simple…and fairly easy to replace if needed. gave the ground to the horn. i don’t think it even had a relay. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[Buickboy58]

I had to bring the Buick for repair again, I had the transmission leaks fix last fall and did a rebuild and started to leak again, still under warranty luckily, also the pinion seal is leaking in the torque tube so I am getting this fixed also. That's why I can't work at the horn wire. 

 

[SJF1948]

I just made the repair to the horn wire in my '53 Super. Not going to go into why the repair was necessary, suffice it to say , I did a dumb thing! If you are handy with a soldering gun the wire can be repaired/replaced without removing or disassembling the steering column. The horn wire in the column is not a power wire, it is a ground wire. It grounds the horn relay to send 12v power to the horns. To make the repair, if possible keep all of the wire removed from the column, you'll need it to measure the replacement wire. On the '53 there is a contact plate on the column under the hood. Disconnect the connector and remove the plate. Under the plate is a slip ring and soldered to the slip ring is the wire running up through the hollow shaft to the steering wheel. You may have to turn the wheel to position the solder joint under the opening. I used a soldering gun to unsolder the wire from the slip ring, the wire can now be pulled out of the shaft. In my case I had to also unsolder the piece of wire from the button at the steering wheel.  The short piece of wire in the button came out clean, even left a small hole in the button. I used a twist drill to open up the button enough to pull the new wire stripped end through. I stripped the wire to the length of the old wire, but left an extra inch or so of bare wire to stick through the button. The tricky part is getting the new wire cut to the right length. I found it easier to insert the new wire from the slip ring opening and push it up to the wheel.  I used a section of 14 gauge wire, duplicated the bend in the wire at the slip ring, tinned it and soldered to to the slip ring. At the wheel, tin the bare wire, clean and tin the button keeping the hole open. As an extra bit of protection for the wire, slip a section of shrink tubing over the wire, when the button is soldered the shrink tubing will cinch down on the wire inside the shaft. After making the solder joint at the button, simply cut off the extra wire, file or dress the button smooth. This was all done with removing the column or the steering wheel. This works on a '53, but the principle should be the same. And for the curious, believe it or not, the steering wheel can be removed without cutting the horn wire!!!!! Definitely one of those uh oh  moments. Hope this helps.

[JohnD1956]

@SJF1948 one big difference from '53 to '56 is that horn connector was moved to the interior side of the cowl. It is located down towards the bottom of the column, and at the 9 o'clock position. For me it results in a cramped location with no direct eye contact to the ring and solder connection.  I am going to assume it is in the same position as mine on the OP's '58.  

[Buickboy58]

2 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

@SJF1948 one big difference from '53 to '56 is that horn connector was moved to the interior side of the cowl. It is located down towards the bottom of the column, and at the 9 o'clock position. For me it results in a cramped location with no direct eye contact to the ring and solder connection.  I am going to assume it is in the same position as mine on the OP's '58.  

It is at the same position in my 58, very limited space down there without removing the steering column. I think if I just unbolt the column from the dash and remove the rubber that is around the column going through the firewall I might be able to bring it down low enough to get to the brass ring and install another wire. Can't do it now, it's still in repair.

[Buickboy58]

8 hours ago, SJF1948 said:

I just made the repair to the horn wire in my '53 Super. Not going to go into why the repair was necessary, suffice it to say , I did a dumb thing! If you are handy with a soldering gun the wire can be repaired/replaced without removing or disassembling the steering column. The horn wire in the column is not a power wire, it is a ground wire. It grounds the horn relay to send 12v power to the horns. To make the repair, if possible keep all of the wire removed from the column, you'll need it to measure the replacement wire. On the '53 there is a contact plate on the column under the hood. Disconnect the connector and remove the plate. Under the plate is a slip ring and soldered to the slip ring is the wire running up through the hollow shaft to the steering wheel. You may have to turn the wheel to position the solder joint under the opening. I used a soldering gun to unsolder the wire from the slip ring, the wire can now be pulled out of the shaft. In my case I had to also unsolder the piece of wire from the button at the steering wheel.  The short piece of wire in the button came out clean, even left a small hole in the button. I used a twist drill to open up the button enough to pull the new wire stripped end through. I stripped the wire to the length of the old wire, but left an extra inch or so of bare wire to stick through the button. The tricky part is getting the new wire cut to the right length. I found it easier to insert the new wire from the slip ring opening and push it up to the wheel.  I used a section of 14 gauge wire, duplicated the bend in the wire at the slip ring, tinned it and soldered to to the slip ring. At the wheel, tin the bare wire, clean and tin the button keeping the hole open. As an extra bit of protection for the wire, slip a section of shrink tubing over the wire, when the button is soldered the shrink tubing will cinch down on the wire inside the shaft. After making the solder joint at the button, simply cut off the extra wire, file or dress the button smooth. This was all done with removing the column or the steering wheel. This works on a '53, but the principle should be the same. And for the curious, believe it or not, the steering wheel can be removed without cutting the horn wire!!!!! Definitely one of those uh oh  moments. Hope this helps.

I want to try to replace the wire without removing the steering column.

[Buickboy58]

Finally got the Buick back from the transmission shop, they fix the tranny leak and replace pinion gear seal. Took them 3 weeks to find a seal for the tranny.

Anyway, so this afternoon I try something, I wanted to try to remove the broken horn wire from the tube with a small hook through the small opening down below were the connection of the horn. 

So instead, I decided to try to solder another piece of electrical wire on the end of the broken wire at the top of the tube, the wire was about an inch below in the tube, so I prepared a short piece of electrical wire, soldered the spring switch to the new wire, and finally I was able to solder the broken wire to the new one with a small soldering gun after a few trial in that small tube opening and finally it works! I got it fix without removing the steering column. YEAH!

One of the previous owner had the steering wheel off to fix the turn signal switch and they broke the horn wire, so they tried to solder another piece of wire on the end, they succeed but the soldering was not very strong and when I remove the steering wheel the solder broke so that's why I had to fix it again with a stronger solder and put some shrink tube to reinforced the hole thing.

 

 

[FunkyNova66]

Hey BuickBoy58,

 

I'm about to pull my steering wheel on my 58 Buick Roadmaster to repair the turn signal cam like yours was done.  I have a friend with a CNC machine and he is going to cut me a plate (like your repair piece) to screw to the cam mechanism. 

 

How do you recommend removing the steering wheel without breaking the horn wires?  I'm trying to understand how the wiring hooks to the chrome horn ring or wheel before I pull this thing apart.  The horn currently doesn't work but I want to be sure to salvage the wire if that is not the issue.  Feel free to shoot me a message or reply here.  Thanks for any input!

[Buickboy58]

Hi FunkyNova66, 

Have you check if the horn works outside the car.

When you will remove the chrome center with the horn ring part of the steering held by 3 screws in the back, you will see the spring ground switch contact, if you pull gently and it comes off, it mean that the wire is broken inside and that's probably why your horn is not working.

you will need a steering wheel puller, use a socket or a piece of pipe that will go over the spring ground contact but it has to sit on the edge as showed in the picture. There is no power going inside the pipe that the wire is in, this is only a ground wire that is cutting or making contact with the spring ground switch to continue the circuit. 

 

[lambert494]

I’ll add some pictures of removal of a 54 buick steering wheel. Hopefully it will help. It looks very similar 

[lambert494]

[lambert494]