cquisuila Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Hello Please, can you tell me how to test the oil pump on my riviera 1966 (engine 425) ? > PEOPLE told me that the pump is often deficient and it can cause problem on engine if it is deficient :( i have to start my engine shortly... Thank you for yours answers ! Philippe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Is the pump in the car or on the bench? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Sir, if the particular style oil pump that goes in your engine has been known to fail install an oil pressure gauge for monitoring. I put an oil pressure gauge in my car. Turbinator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIVNIK Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Turbi is right! One of the best things I ever did was replace my clock w an oil pressure gauge. I quick disconnect my battery when not in use or when working on the car, so the clock was correct only twice a day, plus I always wear a wristwatch, so it wasn't missed. Its now in a box in the shed. After a little shopping I was able to find a gauge w a chrome ring & a font that matched the other instruments. Easy to install, fit perfectly in the clock-hole, hooked up the clock power to the gauge light, & no more oil pressure worries. & instead of hanging under the dash or cutting a hole in the console, it's right there in front of me for peace of mind. Idiot lights suck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 On 7/27/2021 at 12:42 PM, cquisuila said: > PEOPLE told me that the pump is often deficient Use an infrared thermometer and put the red dot right on their forehead. You will be testing in the closest area to any problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) hello for the top this valve SEALS are good ? i'm not sure i just received the 3/8 but they fit easily at the base...grrrr i think that the model diameter 11/32 is best as oldsmobile or big block ford performance on my buick 1966 i have the engine 425 what do you think ? and I SAWN THAT THE 16 valves are identical at the top (intake or exhaust) as the picture of valve so i don't understand when you tell me that the seal 3/8-.531 is only for intake ??? Edited August 24, 2021 by cquisuila (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Philippe, Those are the wrong valve stem seals. As stated they are for an Oldsmobile or a Ford. Your seals are 3/8ths. & ONLY used on the intakes. So 3/8ths. by .531. I doubt they will solve your problems. More likely time for a rebuild. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted August 17, 2021 Author Share Posted August 17, 2021 thank you Tom i have a confusion : the number were for the valve stem : exhaust top 0.372 below 0.3715 - intake valve top 3.73 and below 0.372 sorry and there is hydraulic lifters it seems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Those seals keep oil from being sucked into the cylinder along the valve stem, but they don't have anything to do with lack of compression (at least not directly). I agree that you probably have one or more stuck valves. You can try spraying a solvent such as WD-40 on the valve stem and then try to actuate the valve by hand using a suitable lever. You may be able to free the valve if it is not bent or otherwise damaged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moran75 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/15/2021 at 12:57 PM, RIVNIK said: Turbi is right! One of the best things I ever did was replace my clock w an oil pressure gauge. I quick disconnect my battery when not in use or when working on the car, so the clock was correct only twice a day, plus I always wear a wristwatch, so it wasn't missed. Its now in a box in the shed. After a little shopping I was able to find a gauge w a chrome ring & a font that matched the other instruments. Easy to install, fit perfectly in the clock-hole, hooked up the clock power to the gauge light, & no more oil pressure worries. & instead of hanging under the dash or cutting a hole in the console, it's right there in front of me for peace of mind. Idiot lights suck! Can you let me know what brand/model gauge you used? thanks kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted August 18, 2021 Author Share Posted August 18, 2021 18 hours ago, EmTee said: Those seals keep oil from being sucked into the cylinder along the valve stem, but they don't have anything to do with lack of compression (at least not directly). I agree that you probably have one or more stuck valves. You can try spraying a solvent such as WD-40 on the valve stem and then try to actuate the valve by hand using a suitable lever. You may be able to free the valve if it is not bent or otherwise damaged. I just retry the cylinder head right here the photographies the first valve in cylinder 1 (where there is compression) is in good aspect the others (where there is low compression or nothing) are dirty and some, very dirty, were allowed to pass they are easily cleaned - the inside of the cylinders looks good and the oil deposited on it remains when i turn the crankshaft it seems good and no trace in cylinders i think that it is a good news ! it seems really at odometer 50000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) As you say, the cylinders look good. Based on the deposits present in the combustion chamber, it looks like this engine had been burning oil (likely from the valve guides) for awhile. How much of a ridge is there at the top of the cylinders? Assuming the ridge is not excessive (indicating high wear) you should be able to recondition the valves and reassemble the engine. How does the bottom-end of the engine look? Given the engine is out of the car, you may want to clean the oil pickup and install a new oil pump and timing chain. Edited August 19, 2021 by EmTee typo (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 here the pictures of right side - 4 photography 1-2-3-4 the 3 and 4 cylinder are corroded at the top... is it serious ? Or can i clean it with a phosphorus-based product for example or sand the top with a very thin sandpaper (over 1500) ? the 4 clinders in left side are in best state as the one cylinder in right side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnulfo de l.a. Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 That motor needs to be tore down completely and rebuilt if you want to do it right and not have any more problems. Looks like coolant got into the cylinders where the corrosion is..you need to find out how. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 I agree with the above statement. Looks like a boring bar will be necessary to clean up those walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted August 19, 2021 Author Share Posted August 19, 2021 20 minutes ago, arnulfo de l.a. said: Looks like coolant got into the cylinders where the corrosion is..you need to find out how. Good luck water ?? the car was stopped during 7 years... my question is : IS IT important the top of cylinder corroded in 3 and 4 ? CAN I i clean it with a phosphorus-based product for example or sand the top with a very thin sandpaper (over 1500) ? I would like to keep this original motor please 18 minutes ago, RivNut said: Looks like a boring bar will be necessary to clean up those walls. those walls ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 19 minutes ago, cquisuila said: water ?? the car was stopped during 7 years... my question is : IS IT important the top of cylinder corroded in 3 and 4 ? CAN I i clean it with a phosphorus-based product for example or sand the top with a very thin sandpaper (over 1500) ? I would like to keep this original motor please those walls ? Cylinder walls. Look pitted rather than stained or corroded. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protrash63 Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 Does the low compression match the cylinders with the corrosion and pitting? I agree that it may need to be bored oversize or at least (maybe) honed to clean the cylinder wall. Please update when you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted August 23, 2021 Author Share Posted August 23, 2021 hello i will go wednesday to a garage specialized for american cars with my photos on walls cylinder and will show the 2 head cylinder i think to pass the 2 head cylinder and valves to unleaded petrol see you philippe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbinator Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 On 8/18/2021 at 1:09 PM, moran75 said: Can you let me know what brand/model gauge you used? Moran75, putting a gauge where the non functioning clock is is a great use of space. Also, a very fast mounting opportunity. I got my original clock fitted with a quartz movement. I fitted two Bosch 1.5” diameter gauges on thin metal backing and placed where the ash tray was located. Hard? No. Job was tedious. Critical fittings on gauges are leak free. There are special copper tube lines for the fitting on the oil pressure gauge that have a funnel on the end that fits leak free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) You'll have to imagine what it would have looked like in the car, but I took this cluster of 5 - oil, temp, amp, tach, and vacuum - gauges out of my '63. They were in the ash tray opening of the console. I'm just holding this in place in a 63 console I pulled from a parts car. The piece of green tape points to where the switch was that controlled the lighting. Edited August 23, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gungeey Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 9 hours ago, RivNut said: You'll have to imagine what it would have looked like in the car, but I took this cluster of 5 - oil, temp, amp, tach, and vacuum - gauges out of my '63. They were in the ash tray opening of the console. I'm just holding this in place in a 63 console I pulled from a parts car. The piece of green tape points to where the switch was that controlled the lighting. You would have to drive the car off a cliff to get in the yellow zone of the vacuum gauge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted August 24, 2021 Author Share Posted August 24, 2021 On 8/17/2021 at 8:13 PM, cquisuila said: hello for the top this valve SEALS are good ? i'm not sure i just received the 3/8 but they fit easily at the base...grrrr i think that the model diameter 11/32 is best as oldsmobile or big block ford performance on my buick 1966 i have the engine 425 what do you think ? and I SAWN THAT THE 16 valves are identical at the top (intake or exhaust) as the picture of valve so i don't understand when you tell me that the seal 3/8-.531 is only for intake ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protrash63 Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 On 8/24/2021 at 8:29 AM, cquisuila said: I dont know about sizes, however I just read a book about nailheads and they said to use seals on the intakes only, I believe. I dont remember what the reason is.. too much information!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 The only “nailhead” to come from the factory with valve seals is the 1966 and only on the intakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 9 hours ago, protrash63 said: I dont know about sizes, however I just read a book about nailheads and they said to use seals on the intakes only, I believe. I dont remember what the reason is.. too much information!! lol The reasoning is that there needs to be a little oil that makes it down the exhaust valve stem to provide some lubrication. If not. the valve stems will gall and worst case scenario lock up in the guides breaking rocker arms, etc...its not uncommon for a machine shop to set up the valve guide to stem clearance too tight and valve stem seals on the exhaust valve aggravate this scenario even further. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted August 26, 2021 Author Share Posted August 26, 2021 here the best pictures of cylinder 3 and 4 on the right i have rust but it is therefore thin surface layer Does it interfere with cylinder compression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 If you drag a fingernail across the surface and feel anything, the walls are shot and you need to bore out the cylinders. On a 425, boring 0.060 is getting risky so a 0.040 overbore is probably max. 0.060 is less than 1/16th of an inch, so 0.040 is more like 1/25th of an inch or about 1mm. Your fingernail is about 1mm thick. If those pockets are deeper than the thickness of your fingernail, you'll probably have to go with some sleeves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnulfo de l.a. Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 The way picture three looks to me there is no way around a complete tear down if you want to do it right. Hopefully cylinder will clean up within .060” of boring. If not then you need to consider another block or resleeve. I know thats not what you want to hear but that is reality as i see it. Good luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 The reason that I suggested a maximum of 0.040 over is because I know two guys who have gone 0.060 over on their 425s and after the rebore, the engines run a little hot. May it's a coincidence, maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted August 26, 2021 Share Posted August 26, 2021 1 hour ago, RivNut said: The reason that I suggested a maximum of 0.040 over is because I know two guys who have gone 0.060 over on their 425s and after the rebore, the engines run a little hot. May it's a coincidence, maybe not. Ed, It is normal for a fresh rebuild to produce more heat than the worn original it is replacing. In the UPS shops, it was SOP to always install a new radiator with a new crate engine...we learned the hard way after analyzing road call frequency and causes that any compromise in the components of the cooling system was likely to present itself with a new engine. Since the crate engines came with new water pumps there wasnt much left except the radiator. Obviously the body of data was huge so I think it is a good reference and rule of thumb. I always pay particular attention to the radiator and overall cooling system when installing a fresh rebuild. Tom 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu31VyXlTzo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 6, 2021 Author Share Posted September 6, 2021 HEllo so i cleaned the valves, the walls 5 et 7, changed cylinder gasket and i started the engine !! YES !🙂 the engine is running and I will do the compressions again later (the carburetor is new rebuilt) little problems : - the cooling system rises to pressure > i think that it simply the cap radiator is not efficient or ??? i will change it to confirm this state - the transmission is not efficient but there isn't oil in (OIL REMOVED for transport US to FRANCE) so security before efficient transmission ? perhaps wiring neutral switch ? strato switch not efficient ? IF YOU have test for me i take !;) Regard pHILIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protrash63 Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Philip, Congratulations on it firing up and running!! Always good!! I would check the coolant level again to make sure its totally full. Temperature gauge working? Run it with the cap off and make sure the thermostat opens and water is flowing though the radiator. A new cap is inexpensive. FILL the Transmission before running it more!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 hour ago, protrash63 said: FILL the Transmission before running it more!!!!! Yes - absolutely do this ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 7, 2021 Author Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, protrash63 said: Philip, Congratulations on it firing up and running!! Always good!! I would check the coolant level again to make sure its totally full. Temperature gauge working? Run it with the cap off and make sure the thermostat opens and water is flowing though the radiator. A new cap is inexpensive. FILL the Transmission before running it more!!!!! > yes the temperature gauge is good i hope that it is simply the cap radiator.... IF NOT what would be it the problem ? > FOR the transmission can you confirm that, if it is not filled, the transmission is not efficient ? OR another problem ? Thanks philippe Edited September 7, 2021 by cquisuila (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 The hydraulic pump in the transmission (as well as numerous other internal components) are spinning whenever the engine is running. Running the engine without fluid in the transmission risks damaging the pump and other bearings, seals, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 7, 2021 Author Share Posted September 7, 2021 so I’m going to temporarily put a little oil 80W90, about 2 or 3 liters, to DO A TEST and see if the wheels run... after i WILL put in dexron II i hope that it is a security in the automatic transmission otherwise it may also be an electrical problem ??😒 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) Just start with the ATF, do NOT put gear oil in it, gear oil is for manual transmissions. It’s going to take quite a bit of ATF to see if it’s operational. The ATF is part of the drive, it’s not just a lubricant. If you put gear oil in the trans, you’ll clog up everything. If the trans is empty, put in about 4 quarts. Then start the car, put the trans in gear, both D and R, step on the brake and put some rpms in the engine to fill the torque converter. Check the dip stick. Then put in more and repeat until you bring the fluid level up to the full mark on the dip stick. I pulled this process off the internet. Edited September 7, 2021 by RivNut (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 7, 2021 Author Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) . Edited September 7, 2021 by cquisuila (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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