alsancle Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Is for sale again. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1928-Rolls-Royce-Phantom-I-/143983892340 See inspection report, full photos, videos and more at . Robert Redfords Gatsby Rolls. This is one of the very few cars ever to hold co-star status within a great American classic novel, an iconic movie, and an actor such as Robert Redford. This 1928 Rolls-Royce 40/50hp Phantom I Ascot Dual Cowl Sport Phaeton is nearly perfect after benefiting from a thorough restoration with marque experts with a total investment of about $1.2 million. We believe it is safe to say that between its provenance on the silver screen and the restoration, this is one of the most important Rolls-Royces in existence. F. Scott Fitzgerald selected a Rolls-Royce as the car to be featured in his classic and timeless novel, The Great Gatsby. The car was described in detail in the novel and was an important highlight in the movie as well. And with an all-star cast selected by Paramount studios, it was important that the Rolls-Royce was equally as stunning. Robert Redford starred alongside Mia Farrow to create this all-time classic movie. S304KP was just the right car to co-star with Robert Redford. It had been owned by Ted Leonard who was a well known collector from Seekonk, Massachusetts. The Rolls is likely the only Ascot sport phaeton built as a dual cowl. And this was one of the details F. Scott Fitzgerald included in his description of Jay Gatsbys Rolls: He saw me looking with admiration at his car. Its pretty, isnt it, old sport! He jumped off to give me a better view. Havent you ever seen it before? Id seen it. Everybody had seen it. It was a rich cream color, bright with nickel, swollen here and there in its monstrous length with triumphant hat-boxes and supper-boxes and tool-boxes, and terraced with a labyrinth of wind-shields that mirrored a dozen suns. Sitting down behind many layers of glass in a sort of green leather conservatory, we started to town. After being selected as The Gatsby Rolls, S304KP required its livery repainted in the creamy yellow combination and its leather interior to be dyed in an elegant green. The result was perfect. Chassis S304KP was originally a Town Brougham delivered to Mildred Loring Logan of New York City, and was later owned by American Tobacco Company president, George Washington Hill. There is no documented history in the Rolls-Royce factory Schoellkopf Cards from 1929 through 1964. The research determines that the Ascot body was originally mounted onto chassis S240RM and that the body was moved onto chassis S304KP sometime during or after 1945. The history of the Rolls is well researched and documented, and copies of the related factory and historical information accompany the motorcar. Mr. Leonard acquired the car just in time for the starring role as The Gatsby Rolls. The Leonards maintained ownership of S304KP for the next 36 years. In 2009, The Gatsby Rolls was sold at auction from Leonards estate to John OQuinn of Houston, Texas. Mr. OQuinn died suddenly a few months later, and the car was eventually sold to the current owners, for whom a ground-up restoration was completed from 2011 through 2019. Many of the leading experts were involved in the restoration. Steve Littin from Vintage & Auto Rebuilds in Chardon, Ohio did the full mechanical restoration and the paint and body restoration was performed by Shawn Robinson from Yesterdays in Tyler, Texas. The Gatsby Rolls is nearly perfect today after a total investment in the restoration of about $1.2 million. It would be welcomed at any concours event throughout the world, and had been invited to be shown at the 2019 Pebble Beach Concours. The elegant cream paint is excellent in all respects and is accented by the abundance of concours quality chrome. The green leather interior is complimented by the tan Haartz cloth canvas convertible top and the beautiful wood dashboard with chrome bezels. The Ascot body is widely considered one of the most stunning designs of the classic period. It is both sporty and elegant. We have an appraisal for The Gatsby Rolls supporting the asking price. But more importantly, we believe this Rolls is priced well. It is well known that such iconic classics that are indelibly fixed into our memories and culture, are sought after the world over. This explains the values for such items as the decrepit Bullet Mustang selling for $3.74 million in January 2020 and Paul Newmans Rolex selling for $17.8 million in October 2017. The Great Gatsby as a book has sold about 30 million copies and the number of people who have watch the classic movie is beyond estimation. This is an important fixture in Americas culture. This may be a once in a lifetime opportunity to acquire one of the most important Rolls-Royces in the world. The Gatsby Rolls is owned by The Chamberlain Foundation, a not-for-profit. Its purpose is to help educate future restorers of collector cars and watch makers. Certain tax advantages may be available to the purchaser of the motorcar. The Gatsby Rolls is available for viewing and inspection in Texas. Please call, text or email Harry Clark at 1.602.245.7200 or . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RansomEli Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 A beautiful car but something doesn't ring true. Why sell on eBay? A car this valuable would change hands by word-of-mouth with no need of advertising. I'd be very suspicious of something mechanical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukejunkie1015 Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Doing a little research I can find very little information about the NOT FOR PROFIT charity. Seems very new and what is the watchmaker angle? https://thechamberlain.foundation/ Kurt M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, RansomEli said: A beautiful car but something doesn't ring true. Why sell on eBay? A car this valuable would change hands by word-of-mouth with no need of advertising. I'd be very suspicious of something mechanical. The answer to your question is “In the stars!” Reference William Shakespeare.......... Edited March 21, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car crazy Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 Gorgeous car!!......The Great Gatsby was filmed and enjoyed by so many in those pre-internet days of easily spotting or discovering automotive anachronisms- F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote The Great Gatsby in 1925, and the novel actually takes place in 1922.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) To understand the market for a car like this you can look at this comp from RM Monterey a couple of years ago. Identical Ascot with rock solid history brought 280K all in. There are four differences that I can see: 1. The yellow car had a rear deck added to it, in period or after. 2. The yellow car has a movie history. 3. The green car was built new with the body it carries. 4. The green car is one of a few that has no exterior door hinges. So, the question is how much is the deck and the movie history worth? Typically movie appearances (with a few notable exceptions) don't bring huge premiums. Edited March 21, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 I will say the car was not only in the movie, it had a prominent role. I can remember the posters everywhere when this movie came out, featuring the car with Robert Redford. I have read the book a few times, once in school and once or twice since, he does describe the vehicles in detail. That said, it would be a much more attractive car if the yellow was slightly toned down. The green one is more attractive IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) On the one hand, the yellow car is an original body, albeit from another car, while the green car is a modern rebody. The yellow car also has a mechanical restoration by Steve Littin, which means it's probably at least as good as new from a driving standpoint. It is surely an excellent car and potentially one of the best of its kind. On the other, they seem to conflating a movie appearance with the guy who owned/drove it. Steve McQueen and Paul Newman weren't just movie stars, they were car guys. Their hardware--whatever hardware it may be--carries some extra weight with car guys and it isn't strictly related to movie appearances. It's why a pair of Persol sunglasses actually owned by McQueen sold for $12,000 when I can buy the exact same glasses for $400 on eBay. Sometimes it's more than just the movie connection. When the ad copy says, "We believe this car is priced well," that's them acknowledging that everyone is going to think it's ridiculously over-priced. It surely is. There's probably a bit of a bounce, maybe a significant one, for one of the more famous movie cars of recent history, but I don't know if it doubles or triples the value of the car. And as everyone knows, spending $1.2 million on the restoration doesn't mean you're getting that money back when it sells. And a million dollar appraisal is worth about as much as the paper on which it's printed. Personally, I'm not sure I'd even want to own a famous movie car. That's all anyone will ever want to talk about and you'll have to become an expert on the movie rather than the car. You'll have to be ready for everyone and their mother to want photos of it. You're going to have a non-stop barrage of questions and false facts thrown at you every time it's out in public. It's going to be a lot of work to own and show that car, none of it related to the car itself. That doesn't seem like much fun to me, but I guess some guys like the limelight for whatever reason they can find. Edited March 22, 2021 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Buyer could paint it black or green and duck as all the movie stuff Matt. 👍😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Two different buyers. One a traditional car guy who cares about history and provenance. Attends Concourse events and probably belongs to at least one car club. The other cares about pop culture and telling people about the movie and who sat in the car. Probably never been to a concourse event and is not a member of the RROC. neither understand each other’s motivations. I would take this one for about half the price: https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1929-rolls-royce-phantom-i-ascot-tourer-4/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 (edited) Since I am a Springfield kid, and for fifty years hung around the Rolls crowd.........including most of the well know collectors of the marque, I can tell you that a body swap is a HUGE issue. Why? Simple, since there is a decent supply of correct cars in most body styles, the "off" car becomes very difficult to sell. I don't want to dump on the yellow car, but there is a lot more history to the car.........and none of it would be considered flattering. Not at all. If Steve L restored the car, I can assure you it's correct, and perfect as possible. I would have no doubts or issues driving the car across the globe. Move history is interesting, and a positive. Colors and past history are not a positive. The green car above with the hidden hinges, is in my opinion a much better car.........and it's also an older fantastic restoration. I think the yellow car is a lessor car then the green one, in my opinion. Edited March 22, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchan Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 Anyone surprised by the color of the upholstery? I'd expect red, maybe some shade of tan. Yellow (cream) and green makes me think of John Deere tractors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: On the one hand, the yellow car is an original body, albeit from another car, while the green car is a modern rebody. The yellow car also has a mechanical restoration by Steve Littin, which means it's probably at least as good as new from a driving standpoint. It is surely an excellent car and potentially one of the best of its kind. On the other, they seem to conflating a movie appearance with the guy who owned/drove it. Steve McQueen and Paul Newman weren't just movie stars, they were car guys. Their hardware--whatever hardware it may be--carries some extra weight with car guys and it isn't strictly related to movie appearances. It's why a pair of Persol sunglasses actually owned by McQueen sold for $12,000 when I can buy the exact same glasses for $400 on eBay. Sometimes it's more than just the movie connection. When the ad copy says, "We believe this car is priced well," that's them acknowledging that everyone is going to think it's ridiculously over-priced. It surely is. There's probably a bit of a bounce, maybe a significant one, for one of the more famous movie cars of recent history, but I don't know if it doubles or triples the value of the car. And as everyone knows, spending $1.2 million on the restoration doesn't mean you're getting that money back when it sells. And a million dollar appraisal is worth about as much as the paper on which it's printed. Personally, I'm not sure I'd even want to own a famous movie car. That's all anyone will ever want to talk about and you'll have to become an expert on the movie rather than the car. You'll have to be ready for everyone and their mother to want photos of it. You're going to have a non-stop barrage of questions and false facts thrown at you every time it's out in public. It's going to be a lot of work to own and show that car, none of it related to the car itself. That doesn't seem like much fun to me, but I guess some guys like the limelight for whatever reason they can find. Matt, I’m personally familiar with the green car and to the best of my knowledge it is as built in 1928. Not a modern rebody in any way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 28 minutes ago, alsancle said: Matt, I’m personally familiar with the green car and to the best of my knowledge it is as built in 1928. Not a modern rebody in any way. I'm almost positive that I read in one of the descriptions that it was rebodied, but now I can't find where I read that. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 The green car is right as rain........there were four original cars without hinges, the reproduction cars were built without them, so that's probably why there is confusion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Museum Ascot, amusing as a friend of my wife's snapped this while traveling a couple years back. She had no clue other than she thought we would like the old RR.... Check out doors on this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said: Museum Ascot, amusing as a friend of my wife's snapped this while traveling a couple years back. She had no clue other than she thought we would like the old RR.... Check out doors on this one. Steve, you noticed the doors which makes this a Derby Speedster and not an Ascot. The cut doors make for quite a premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 8 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: I'm almost positive that I read in one of the descriptions that it was rebodied, but now I can't find where I read that. Sorry. Usually you won't go broke betting some cool car is compromised, but the green Ascot is a GREAT real car. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 AJ I was referring to lack of ext hinges, obviously you have a trained eye, doors look to be same height to my untrained eye. The more I see the green Ascot the more I like it! Here is another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 15 hours ago, alsancle said: Usually you won't go broke betting some cool car is compromised, but the green Ascot is a GREAT real car. Fix the hood ornament. She's obviously upset with your driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Fix the hood ornament. She's obviously upset with your driving. You would think Rolls would have figured out to make a hood ornament that doesn't hit the hoods when you open them. A problem for PI and PII cars, any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said: AJ I was referring to lack of ext hinges, obviously you have a trained eye, doors look to be same height to my untrained eye. The more I see the green Ascot the more I like it! Here is another... That ship sailed Steve. But the green car is really awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, alsancle said: You would think Rolls would have figured out to make a hood ornament that doesn't hit the hoods when you open them. A problem for PI and PII cars, any others? There's a list as long as my arm of things that Rolls-Royce did on their cars that make no sense and could have been done better if someone had spent more (or maybe less?) time thinking about it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 Also note the green car has the Derby roof as opposed to the standard phaeton style roof on most Ascots. The earlier pictures of the car show that roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 The green car really is stunning. I'm glad it's a good car and not something conjured from nothingness with modern sensibilities. The guy who owned that car when it was new was well and truly The Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 Another thing I just noticed, the yellow car has hood louvers. Not sure I have ever seen that on a PII. Rolls has no vents but a big ass radiator and the tend to run cool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 On 3/21/2021 at 7:39 PM, alsancle said: Ascot Tourer What a difference door shape and details can make... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Having extensively driven and serviced Ascot's and Derby's..................the Ascot is ten times easier to get in and out. That said, they are both fantastic cars. Not much better...........unless you have a York or a Henley! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said: What a difference door shape and details can make... Now I understand "cut down doors", I was more focused on height. Def. Prefer the sporty Derby Top, but the light green car appeals to me more, color wise, although this is a sharp looking car, would bd even better with a smaller, shaplier trunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 The Ascot without the exposed hinge is probably my favorite PI body style. I love the York, but prefer four door cars for touring and entertaining. I think the Derby's good looks are a step above the Ascot, but being middle aged, tall, and less flexible ..........the Derby is a challenge every time you get in and out. I won't bother to referance Coco Channel and getting in and out of cars............ 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 Worldwide auctioneers just sold the Gatsby car for $875k plus 12/10 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 16 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said: Worldwide auctioneers just sold the Gatsby car for $875k plus 12/10 percent. I don’t believe it for a second. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 5 bidders. There is one born every minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 23 minutes ago, edinmass said: I don’t believe it for a second. Then you won’t believe what j239, a non disappearing top Murphy convertible coupe, went for. (Hammer of 3 million plus 12/10 percent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) I know where there are three very similar and much better cars in condition and provenance for 1/3 of the number posted. The Gatsby car nomenclature is meaningless for a reason. There have been four cinema films of The Great Gatsby, one in 1926 which was silent. The “real” movie made in 1948 with Allan Ladd, and then the 70’s Redford and the 2010’s DiCaprio. Only the 1948 version was well done, and used real top of the line cars. I’m around Springfield cars on a daily basis……..and having been born and raised in Springfield I keep an close watch on the market. Could that number be real………only if someone with absolutely no clue as to values and provenance was bidding. I handicap the odds of that being a real sale at 10/1. I have been wrong many times over the years, but this one particular time I think my projection is safe. The J price is exactly where I would have put it…….except my 3 number was “all in”. Disappearing top cars are 5.5 all day long now. The one that just sold was recently done and hasn’t hit the show circuit yet……so that number is a current representation of the market today. Edited September 4, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 Never read the book or seen any of the movies. But it does look like a nice car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted September 4, 2022 Author Share Posted September 4, 2022 19 hours ago, edinmass said: I don’t believe it for a second. I’ll moderate my response, and just say I’m surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 At least in the 1948 movie, they used good cars. Not made up junk, or plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 1 minute ago, alsancle said: I’ll moderate my response, and just say I’m surprised. 300K will buy you a car three times better……..IE -more collectible and correct. And it won’t be barf yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 (edited) Example……dump the white walls, paint the wheels black, and a car with much better eyeball then the “Yellow Fever” car. PS- this is current market from last year. Edited September 4, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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