Evaporust question

[avantey]

I am about to try Evaporust for the first time after my '31 A ran quite warm, got hot and lost water daily on tour last year in South Carolina.  Reading many threads here on using it made the decision for me but I have a question after looking at Evaporust's website and various sellers.  Everyone here talks of using Evaporust but is that the namesake product or Thermocure by Evaporust?  Thermocure is their specific cooling system product but I can't find any real difference between the two and wondering which one you guys are using?

Thanks,

Bill

[Hubert_25-25]

Evaporust is $10 a quart and thermorust is $15 per quart.  I would just buy the thermorust.  I have a gallon of evaporust, and I keep 2 quarts in a wide mouth jar (A big plastic pretzel jar).  This way I can put larger items in and keep the evaporust from evaporating.  Thermorust and evaporust is probably the same stuff.  I would consider doing the job with thermorust twice.  Do it in your radiator until you think it is clean, then flush it with water, then do it again with fresh thermorust to make sure the color does not change.  Then you know all the conversion is complete.  Maybe leave the first batch in for a week, then the second batch and any consecutive batches in for 2 days and see if the subsequent batches show no added color darkness.  Then flush and put in the 50/50 antifreeze.  

 

Another option to consider once you remove all the rust is Evans waterless coolant.  It won't boil, so if your system is borderline you can maintain functionality.  I have Evans in my 1925 Buick and I live in Texas.  I think without it I would have to replace the honeycomb radiator at about $3000.  With the Evans, it does not bother me if I see 220 on the temperature indicator (which I will see if I have been running at 45 mph for extended periods (basically my top speed).  When I shut the car off, the temperature creeps up higher.  I have an electronic temperature gauge and alarm that I added because I don't trust just a thermometer in the motometer.   My system is non pressurized.     

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/330712-temperature-display-and-overheat-alarm-installation/?tab=comments#comment-1911297

 

These are my notes from my last long drive 

 I am going to try to give you some thoughts on waterless coolant or not since I am running Evans waterless in my 1925 Buick, now with around 600 miles on it.  I also had waterless coolant that was factory installed in my 2002 Porsche 911.   I bought this on Amazon so it was delivered to the house.  You need at least 3 gallons, but the deal is buy 4 gal for $168 & free shipping.  You will need a little for occasional topping up.  I keep the empty jugs in case I need to drain the radiator to service something.   Filter it thru a coffee filter and pour it back in.   

 

One advantage that I see is that one day I drove my car 100 miles.   For an extended time, I was running just over 45 mph.  This is basically tops for the car.  I have an electronic temperature pick up on the head (which I also suggest as they are only $50 and you can flip it under the dash).  Normally on short trips I am reading 200F.  For a long stretch at speed, my reading on the head was steady at 218 degrees F.  It will rise briefly when you come to a stop.  Would I be boiling over with 50/50 mix - possibly or darn close.  I would at some point notice corrosion near the motometer over time, or down where the overflow pipe is.  You know the metal under the radiator and at the base of the shell that has all the rust on it.  I don't worry about any rust forming on my nickel plated shell or the metal between the radiator and the shell.  Ideally a thermostat would open at 165F or 190F and my car would run around 200F, but this is a non pressurized system.  My temp pick up alarm is set for 250F.   No alarm on the motometer.  At less than 250F I may get a little more heightened awareness, but I am not concerned.  

Fact: A coolant mixture of 50% water and 50% ethylene glycol has a boiling point of 223 degrees. A system with a 15 psi cap will add 45 degrees for a final boiling point of 268 degrees. The real purpose of pressurizing is to give drivers a higher operating zone in case of extreme conditions.

I don't know how normal this 218F operating temperature is.  I can still retard my spark and hand crank the car.  Advancing the timing furthur will make the engine run cooler by some amount.  If my honeycomb radiator (which looks clean in and out) is marginal, I have a fix that allows me to keep using it.  Not interested in spending $3,000 to recore it with another honeycomb.  This may all be completely normal anyway in Texas. 

I am not sure how well the thermometer that sits on the top of the radiator really works.  I can't see it at night.   The Evans won't boil so I do not know how well a motometer would pick up a real hot engine.  The thermometer seems to be working with the Evans, but the bulb is up in the vapor space and not in contact with the liquid.  Maybe I should solder a little wire on it so it actually touches the fluid?  At 218 the motometer shows an elevated temperature from normal, but not up in the danger circle that I recall.  Not a lot of data on this as few have a temperature indicator.      

I do fill my radiator maybe 1/4" above the tubes.  If I ever see dry tubes I add fluid.  I leave space for thermal expansion and I don't want to push any out the overflow. 

Hugh

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[FLYER15015]

Bill,

After fighting chronic overheating in my '40 Buick series 90 with a motor that has never been opened up and 78K on the clock, I finally threw 2 gallons of Evap-O -Rust in her and drove it for about 10 days.

Probably about 20 - 25 heat /cool cycles. It went in looking like Mountain Dew and came out looking like Pepsi (green / black) .

Flushed out the system with a garden hose and threw in a 50/50 mix of Prestone .

Worked so well I ended up having to replace 3 expansion plugs, which gave me a chance to look inside at the cooling passageways. CLEAN AS A WISTLE !!!!

I paid 25 bucks a gallon at Tractor Supply about 4 years ago and no overheating since then, and I do a lot of putting around town.

Count me in as a "convert" for Evap-O-Rust.

 

Mike in Colorado

[avantey]

Thank you Hugh and Mike for your replies.  Mike, it sounds like you ran almost 100% Evaporust (2 gallons) while Hugh, you suggested quarts.  I do notice the Thermorust is sold in quarts so is it a concentrate that can be diluted?  Where as Evaporust should be used full strength without dilution?  And if Thermocure is diluted can it be saved and used over like you use Evaporust?  Sorry for all the questions but I lke the idea of using Evaporust for more rust removal on other things.

Thanks,

Bill

[yachtflame]

I bought a 5 gallon pail of Evaporust from Home Depot for $85. I did have to order it and have it delivered to my local store which took about a week. My 1948 Jag MK V was running hot so after a good friend suggested using it, I followed his instructions. I drained the system and flushed it twice with water to remove the antifreeze. Then filled the system with Evaporust and ran the car for a month. It dropped the running temperature by 15 degrees! Drained the system and flushed it twice with water before refilling with antifreeze. WOW, what a difference!

 I then used the same Evaporust in my 1930 LaSalle and it cleaned that system also. I gotta say that this was the best advice Ed ever gave me!

 

Wayne

[Hubert_25-25]

Bill, 

  The evaporust is ~$20 gallon.  My system holds 3 gallons.  I would not mind a 5 gallon bucket of this around the house.  Lots of uses.  Vinegar is also decent for rust removal at $3 a gallon or less, but I would not use vinegar in my radiator.  I do not think the quart is a concentrate.  Just a smaller container.  I would not hesitate to do what Wayne did and just fill the system with evaporust.  When you drain it, I would recover the remainder and use it for parts cleaning as it likely still has some life left.  It may just work a little slower.  

Hugh 

[Matt Harwood]

I am a big fan of Evapo-Rust and using it as coolant for a few weeks is a great way to clean out areas of your block that you can't reach any other way. I devised a pump system that would circulate Evapo-Rust through an engine block 24/7 for a week or two and it really cleans things out. If you are using it as coolant, it works fine and has about the same viscosity as water so you won't have any issues there. It seems to transfer heat about as well as water, too. I would recommend some kind of filter in your upper radiator hose(s) to catch any debris that comes loose. I use a pantyhose foot (what I call the Grimy Filter named in honor of fellow board contributor Grimy) in the upper hose and it really does catch quite a bit of junk.
 

Remember that Evapo-Rust only works on iron, so it won't clean corrosion in an aluminum or brass radiator, just iron rust. I don't dilute it and it is not designed to be diluted. SOme cooling systems are smaller than others--my '41 Buick takes 5 gallons and my '35 Lincoln takes 8, so ti can be expensive. But regardless of cost, I have not found anything that works better and is safer. You can even pour it down the drain when you're done, so it's very inert.

 

Here's my pump system at work on my Lincoln's V12. I just hooked it up and let it run for a few weeks. A heater in the bucket kept the solution at about 160 degrees which seemed to boost effectiveness.

 

Using clear tubing allowed me to see it working. I would consider temporarily using this instead of a black rubber upper radiator hose so you can monitor the progress.

 

Here's the inside of my Lincoln's block before and after:

 

 

Here's some of the debris that the pantyhose filter caught in my '41 Buick after running Evapo-Rust for a few weeks as coolant:

 

 

[avantey]

Thanks Matt,  I remembered the thread on your pump was one of the better reads on Evaporust.  I went to the store today and I got the quart of Thermocure because they had that on the shelf, no Evaporust.  But the majority here seem to use the Evaporust straight up so I am reconsidering.  I may return the Thermocure, or run it thru first per directions and if not satisfied do the regular Evaporust.  I like the filter idea, have a lot of my wife's hose in her gardening supplies, she used to use them to tie up plants and flowers.  Will also look at the clear hose idea.

Thanks all,

Bill

[FLYER15015]

OFF TOPIC !!!

I just HAD to give Matt "a like" for his post.

JUST so he has as many "likes" as he does posts.

What a guy.........

Plus what he said was true and relevant to the discussion.

 

Mike in Colorado

 

[TerryB]

59 minutes ago, FLYER15015 said:

OFF TOPIC !!!

I just HAD to give Matt "a like" for his post.

JUST so he has as many "likes" as he does posts.

What a guy.........

Plus what he said was true and relevant to the discussion.

 

Mike in Colorado

 

Me too! Great tech demo on how the stuff works.

[JamesR]

In my old Ford I use the Thermo cure for specified amount of time - a week or less - then drain everything and run close to a straight Evaporust for longer periods during  warm weather. Be sure to change back to anti-freeze for late fall and winter!

[Marty Roth]

All very solid suggestions , 

so another question-

Would backflushing with EvapoRust be any significant benefit?

 

My '37 Roadmaster runs cool with a 160 stat,

but will heat to the max if left running during a fuel- fillup/bladder-emptying stop (goes with the age of the car & Driver?)

 

I appreciate your answers to Bill, especially for the next time I borrow his Model-A to frighten Canadian Cattle- 

a story for another time.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

When I read these I always think how my 1939 Buick owner’s manual suggests flushing the coolant system twice a year as routine maintenance.  I wonder how often that was actually done, on any car?

[Matt Harwood]

2 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

 

Would backflushing with EvapoRust be any significant benefit?

 

My '37 Roadmaster runs cool with a 160 stat,

but will heat to the max if left running during a fuel- fillup/bladder-emptying stop (goes with the age of the car & Driver?)

 

I don't think Evapo-Rust would be effective as a back-flush. It needs time to soak to do its work, so simply blasting it through won't do much more than water. It needs time to work.

 

The fact that your car runs cool as long as it's moving but heats up sitting still suggests the radiator has a partial blockage and while some of it might be rust from the block, it may also be corrosion on the tubes just from years of use with hard water. It's inevitable. This is a radiator from a car that seemed healthy but heated up like yours when it was sitting in traffic. Still flowing, still cooling at speed, but pretty restricted.

 

[Marty Roth]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I don't think Evapo-Rust would be effective as a back-flush. It needs time to soak to do its work, so simply blasting it through won't do much more than water. It needs time to work.

 

The fact that your car runs cool as long as it's moving but heats up sitting still suggests the radiator has a partial blockage and while some of it might be rust from the block, it may also be corrosion on the tubes just from years of use with hard water. It's inevitable. This is a radiator from a car that seemed healthy but heated up like yours when it was sitting in traffic. Still flowing, still cooling at speed, but pretty restricted.

 

 

Thanks Matt,

 

Our '37, following NYC parade service, spent most of her life in a museum and then a private collection. Upon purchase in 2009 and showing 7-8,xxx miles we went through the wiring, exhaust, and normal tune-up, plus dropping the pan. I believe there is likely radiator, as well as likely rear cylinders  blockage. At some point I'll probably try Evapo-Rust, but was disappointed to realize that it would likely not clear the copper radiator.

[yachtflame]

Like Matt, I use pantyhose feet in both lines going to the radiator on my ‘30 LaSalle. It’s amazing what you catch. I also bought a few magnets with holes in the middle from Home Depot which I hang on long wire ties in the radiator. Gives a new meaning to Klingons! And while I’m talking about magnets, I buy the pliable magnetic covers for heater vents which I cut to fit the bottom of my oil pan to grab and “floating” Iron metal bits. 

[FLYER15015]

Marty,

It may be expensive, but if you could isolate the radiator and fill it up with CLR, that may forestall pulling it and running it into the local radiator shop for a bath.

 

Mike in Colorado

[ArticiferTom]

Did the CLR on my rad with it's white scale top . 10 hrs and light brush with flexible coil brush from plumbing store cleaned most heavies out . Then back flushed with Zoo tool , and air water flushing device . . It is hard to get debris from top tank , so took off anyway .

[avantey]

One more question please if you can stand it.  I cannot find a local supply of the clear hose.  Is the clear PVC from MSC usable at 29 PSI max pressure?  I need 1 3/4 ID and this has a 1/4:|" wall.  Plus you buy it cut to order by the foot.

Thanks for all the help here,

Bill

[Matt Harwood]

That should work. It's a pretty low-stress application as long as it's rated for 200 degree temperatures. I bought that stuff I used at Home Depot and it comes in 2-foot lengths. It's not permanent and you should keep an eye on it, but it should work just fine for a few weeks while you let the Evapo-Rust do its thing. Be sure to include a filter of some kind!

[kgreen]

On 6/1/2020 at 10:10 PM, Marty Roth said:

 

 I believe there is likely radiator, as well as likely rear cylinders  blockage. At some point I'll probably try Evapo-Rust, but was disappointed to realize that it would likely not clear the copper radiator.

How about a dual flush?  Evaporust for the radiator and ammonia for the radiator?  Suppose I'd try ammonia first, then tackle the block.

 

Disclaimer:  This is an idea, I have no legal representation and no assets, so you are on your own!

[avantey]

Thanks Matt,

I looked at HD website and did not find it, HD is about 20 miles away for me,.

Lowes is closer but I did not see it on their site either.  They both went up to about an inch ID, I need 1 3/4 ID.

Thanks, Bill

[Marty Roth]

On 6/2/2020 at 12:07 PM, FLYER15015 said:

Marty,

It may be expensive, but if you could isolate the radiator and fill it up with CLR, that may forestall pulling it and running it into the local radiator shop for a bath.

 

Mike in Colorado

 

Thank you, Mike,

 

That is a great suggestion as removal  of the radiator on my '37 Roadmaster would be a massive job.

I may also try isolating the block from the radiator and running short heat/cool cycles with Evapo-Rust  and a stocking in the block.

 

Thanks also kgreen, for your suggestion:

"How about a dual flush?  Evaporust for the radiator and ammonia for the radiator?  Suppose I'd try ammonia first, then tackle the block.

 

Disclaimer:  This is an idea, I have no legal representation and no assets, so you are on your own!"

 

Marty

Edited June 4, 2020 by Marty Roth (see edit history)