Radials installed on riveted wheels

[Turbosl2]

For those who are looking to move from bias ply to radials...man what an upgrade. Here are some pics and thoughts. 
 

Diamondback tubless 6.5 x 16 radials with 3-1/4 whitewall. 
 

I hit each rivit with my small cookie grinder and added some black rtv just to ensure no leaks. As many of you know radials transmit a lot more force to the rim and if the rivits moved (hopefully never fail) I didn’t want a leak

 

installing the tires was horrible. They can shrink wrapped so the beads were touching. I left them in the sun and tried using the old tubes to stretch them. Didn’t work. I have my own tire machine with assist arms and road force balancer (gsp9700). Getting these tires to blow up and set the bead was impossible, even with a bead blaster. I had to install them with valve stem cores in and starting fluid and a lighter. Then quickly adding air. 
 

After all this PITA work I am glad I did it. The car drives very smooth and safe now. Tires did lose air first day due to me using the starting fluid. After that I aired them up to 28psi and it’s been 2 weeks no loss of air. Hit a huge pothole on I-87 with the family and I for sure thought my rim was going to be toast but it is fine

[Bloo]

Thanks for posting this. They look terrific on the car!

 

Do you have any close ups after you washed the blue stuff off? Like maybe how the outer edge of the whitewall looks on the outer edge? Is there a raised black ridge there? It is kind of hard to tell from the pics.

 

Silicone huh? I was just staring at rivets like those today and wondering if they were going to leak or not, and what I would do about it if they did. I already have tires. I wanted Diamondback Auburns, but there were still no 16" Diamondbacks available when I bought them. Yours are the first close-up pictures I have seen of the Auburns.

 

I was also wondering how they measure the whitewall. Now that yours are mounted, are they about 3-1/4" measured from the edge of the rim?

[Turbosl2]

30 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Thanks for posting this. They look terrific on the car!

 

Do you have any close ups after you washed the blue stuff off? Like maybe how the outer edge of the whitewall looks on the outer edge? Is there a raised black ridge there? It is kind of hard to tell from the pics.

 

Silicone huh? I was just staring at rivets like those today and wondering if they were going to leak or not, and what I would do about it if they did. I already have tires. I wanted Diamondback Auburns, but there were still no 16" Diamondbacks available when I bought them. Yours are the first close-up pictures I have seen of the Auburns.

 

I was also wondering how they measure the whitewall. Now that yours are mounted, are they about 3-1/4" measured from the edge of the rim?

I can get you some better pictures tomorrow of this one doesn’t answer your question. Should be high resolution. Yes these are the Auburn’s. Not only do they look good the car drives 100% different. It’s the best thing I did to the car ever. The 4 bias ply tires I can carry with one arm and still lighter than one radial. No construction to the bias at all. I hear of many different ways to seal the rivits as a precaution. I have a bunch of old timer friends and this has worked for them so I did the same. The internet has many different ideas but I know this method works. Let me know how you make out having them installed, it was not fun. Only tire that has been worse than this is my C7 Z06 335/25R20 runflats. If they were not wrapped in plastic wrap so the beads touch maybe I would have a chance.

[Buicknutty]

 I have Diamondbacks on my '41 and '56 Roadmasters, and I love them. The '41 especially rides, handles and drives extremely well.

 Count me in as a fan!

[Morgan Wright]

You are putting tubeless tires on a tube rim.

[Jim Nelson]

Turbos12,    I have a '38-46s that had Cooker 7.60-16 bias tires.     I am a radial tire guy.    Bias ply tires are ok tires but not as good a tire for todays driving and roads.     I was on a trip in my '38' coupe  from Fla. heading to Indiana and had some cooling issues.   So I decided to  - ahem -  turn around and head home.    On the way back,  in the dark on I-75,  doing 70 mph  (I have overdrive)  in the left lane,  I had a left front tire blow out.     I survived and  got off the road and changed the tire.     I am an old guy and having blow outs came with with old cars.     I have not had a blow out in my cars since around 1970 with radial tires.        So,  I dumped the Cooker bias ply tires  (my choice)  and went with Diamondback  16" touring.    7.60 R 16 w/ 2.5" WW tires.     My Buick  coupe now rides and handles safely.     I did not have to do anything special but I like your upgrading of the rim's.     I have a favorite tire shop who handles our old classic car tire issues.      They went on easy and I've had no problems for over two years.    I now have a "35-58" and I'm in the process of changing my OLD bias ply  WW tires from, I think,  Firestone. (oem tires).    I'm going with Diamondback  radials like those on my  "38-46s".    Yes,   I'm prejudice,   but my night experience brought me home !    I'm not trying to have a show car but it must be safe on the highway,  as I drive my cars.    Any one want some old classic tires ?   Pay the freight /  or pick up in southern Ga.    They  look good and seem nice enough for a show car originals  but not for my driving in  the Tampa Fla. heavy traffic.   

[Matt Harwood]

Count me as a radial fan as well. Any car where they'll fit, they're on the car. I'm still looking for a 750R17 to use on the 1935 Lincoln, but they seem to have gone out of production. The Limited, Melanie's Chrysler, and her '66 Mustang all wear radials and all are better for it with zero issues. The Chrysler runs tubes because it has wire wheels, but the others all are running tubeless.

[Bloo]

17 minutes ago, Morgan Wright said:

You are putting tubeless tires on a tube rim.

 

Yes.

 

Neither of those graphics depict what is going on here. The one on the left is a locking ring rim, and the one on the right is the sort of rim used on trucks in the 3/4 ton - 1 ton range (and possibly larger) when tubeless tires first became available for trucks like that. The weird sloping bead gives it away.

 

The rims on that Buick's wheels, and mine also, are ordinary drop center rims, still used on passenger cars today.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

My bad, I see you are using tubes.

[Turbosl2]

2 hours ago, Morgan Wright said:

My bad, I see you are using tubes.

 

I am not using tubes. The tubes in my pictures were to help stretch the beads out in the sun. 

[edinmass]

Ok....I'll say it again. I have driven pre war cars over a hundred thousand miles................all early, large, and heavy cars. I have had ONE flat at speed. Have had two dozen flats while in the garage, parking lot, ect. Most rims can and will flex. Many have hidden rust and repair issues covered up. Your asking for wheel/rim failure. Yes, I HAVE seen it multiple times. Also, the wheels often flex so much the hubcaps will fly off. Add in you now are driving the car much faster and at the high end of the envelop of steering, suspension, and brakes...........its just not a good idea. Yes, I know, they sell them so they must be safe. They sell cigarettes also. Spinning you engine fast is another reason not to do it....yes, some have installed overdrives. If you car is built in 1932, its sweet spot at high end is anywhere from 45-55. If you want to drive faster buy a newer car, or get a trailer. I understand driving 100 miles to a show, and not wanting to load it on a trailer. Take the surface roads, leave earlier, and enjoy the drive. Most every car I own except my Model T will comfortably do 55, some are fine at 75. I think the "radial tire push" is mostly for people who can't or won't sort and repair the car correctly. Radial tires will cover up lots of problems .........and on a 90 year old car that isn't a good idea. If I were to put them on a later 30's car..........which I wouldn't........I would sandblast the wheels, inspect them for running true, be sure they are in PERFECT condition, and then I would reinforce them. Also, I would inspect them often..........literately pull them off the car every 1000 miles to check for metal fatigue. There IS a reason the large radial tires were stopped.......the 17 inch 605/700/750 range. These car can easily do 100 mph, and often the rims were failing. I removed a brand new set of Michelins from a 1936 Pierce and gave them to the Pierce  museum for a display car. I didn't want to see them on anyones car. There are now tire companies that will make you a radial tire in any size...........buy first they want the wheels in hand. I recently saw a major 1929 car with radials. They owner had NEW rims, spokes, and hubs made of heavier material. Car looked good. The owner was a very highly respected engineer. Asking him about them, he commented he liked them as he often drives his car at 80 mph for an hour or two. He also commented he wouldn't run them with stock 90 year old wheels. Tank you time, and stay safe. Drive your car within it safety envelope......and you won't need the radials. 

 

PS- Have you installed now studs and lugs with your radial tires? NO? We manufacture new CORRECT wheel lugs for classic era cars......yup, they are expensive. But they fit correctly, which modern ones don't do. And YES, often wheel lugs and studs are worn out from over tightening over the years. Also, I have noticed often times pre war cars with radials have shocks that are not functioning, and springs that are sagging. Add in the flex of the side wall...........and think about how the brakes are affected.......

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

My beef about tubeless tires on tube rims is the slow leak at the bead. You said you had 2 dozen flats in the garage? Hmmm.....

[Matt Harwood]

I agree that most failures are tube-related these days. The new tubes being sold by [redacted] are the thickness of condoms. I've had slightly better luck by asking the truck tire shop that does my tires (they still have a widowmaker cage for working on lock ring wheels) to buy me truck tubes. The stems are often visibly wrong, but they are considerably stronger. If I can get away without a tube, I do it just to eliminate one more failure point.

 

I don't disagree with Ed very often, but I'm not entirely convinced that wheel failures are being caused by radial tires. There are surely other factors at play, but if wheel failure were happening on a widespread level due to radials instead of bias-ply tires, we'd hear about it. I've spent hours searching the internet for just one instance of a wheel failure related to a radial tire--a story, a guy who saw it happen, or just a crappy cell phone photo--and other than some speculation that it can or might happen, I have yet to see evidence. That's not to say that a vintage wheel can't be abused to the point of failure, but I don't believe anyone is driving their ancient car in such a way that a broken wheel is a significant potential threat. I do, however, agree that the radials can mask other issues and that there are a great many cars running around with sub-standard suspension maintenance that could be considered dangerous. Again, a failure would not be the radials' fault, but I suppose they could be considered a contributing factor if they allow someone to overlook loose kingpins or worn tie rods. But the chances of blowing out the center of a steel wheel designed for very heavy cars being used modestly, merely by changing to a different type of tire are, in my opinion, fairly remote.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

I just ordered 2 new tubes from [redacted]. If they look like condoms I will use them for that purpose and return them to [redacted].

[John_Mereness]

My opinion with the Co_ _ _ R radials were that that tire casing had too aggressive of a pattern on them for the tubes - so I switched to DiamondBack and run a Toyo with applied whitewall and also run them tubless - I RTV calked the spoke welds/rivets and then calked in a gutter strip.  Friends extensively run their Packard 12cyl with 17" Co_ _ _ R radials and tubeless - they add air once a year and have zippo problems. And I have probably a top 5 suspension guy at my fingertips and we are not hiding sins - that is important safety wise.   And I agree it is hard to get good tubes. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[1937McBuick]

Well now I don't know what to think.

I bought a set (of five) 650R-16,  3-1/4  Coker wide whites and tubes.

They are going on a 37 McLaughlin Buick which supposedly have different rims than their American cousins.

I think there were some Chev truck parts used for rims and differential etc in Canada.   The 40 series rims are Kelsey made with a tamed down Artillery style look from 1936.   Rim diameter-16 inches, rim width-5 inches, hub bore-3-7/16 inches, 6 bolt rim,  bolt circle-5 inches,   Brakes are 12 inch.

 

I hope everything is ok.

 

They aren't mounted yet,  we're not at that stage yet.

[c49er]

If running cheap super thin china tubes a flap is a good idea... narrow one as used on the old OE Motor wheel wire wheels.

Tubes today are so cheap...thanks engineers and China for making an effort to keep us old car folks safe.👎

[1937McBuick]

Probably hard to see but attached is a pic of the rim I tried to describe.    There are more smaller rivet points where the rim attaches to the center piece,   therefore more than 4 gaps.

[Bloo]

On 5/3/2020 at 5:33 PM, Turbosl2 said:

I have my own tire machine with assist arms and road force balancer (gsp9700).

 

Hey Turbosl2, How round were the tires? Did they balance up easy?

[Matt Harwood]

All four of the radials on my '41 Limited balanced more or less like this:

 

 

[Turbosl2]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

 

Hey Turbosl2, How round were the tires? Did they balance up easy?

All of the tires were 8-30lbs of roadforce. Def acceptable on this chassis. Only my corvette needs 12lbs of road force. I didn’t have to index any wheels to the tires. I could to reduce it further but you don’t feel anything with a sidewall that size. Each assembly tool between .5-1.5oz of weight, again I could had reduced this but this machine is not necessary for tires like these. I would be wasting my time. I hope this helps. It’s been 3 weeks and not one psi change in air pressure. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Turbosl2 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:33 PM, 1937McBuick said:

I bought a set (of five) 650R-16,  3-1/4  Coker wide whites and tubes.

 

Interesting, I buy 5 tires when I need a set, as well. I think those who buy four and save the best old one for a spare might also have the underlying worn suspension and drive train parts that impaired the ride.

Bernie

[1937McBuick]

Bernie,  I'm starting from scratch so I have nothing worth saving/salvaging.   I'm hoping the new tires outlast me!   I either have alot of faith in the tires or very little faith I'm going to get real old.   Guess it depends how much road time this complete restoration sees.  I'm not retired and we have lots of winter where I live(Canadian Prairies).