1917 Kissel Model 6-38 US Army Truck - Light Troop Carrier

[bobs1916]

Thought   you   might   like  to   see  this     plate  from  my   FWD

[bobs1916]

On 1/27/2022 at 4:22 PM, ron hausmann said:

Thanks Bob,

     I’m aware that this horn is a poison gas alarm horn as it is marked on the case. The reason I’ve mounted it here is because it’s case also has a “US Army” casting on it and a “1918” cast date. Those touches, as well as the brass “1918 Ammunition Carrier” plaque on the cowl certainly will give the vehicle an identity and some provenance. Saves a lot of question-answering!

    Take care. Ron

 

On 1/27/2022 at 4:22 PM, ron hausmann said:

Thanks Bob,

     I’m aware that this horn is a poison gas alarm horn as it is marked on the case. The reason I’ve mounted it here is because it’s case also has a “US Army” casting on it and a “1918” cast date. Those touches, as well as the brass “1918 Ammunition Carrier” plaque on the cowl certainly will give the vehicle an identity and some provenance. Saves a lot of question-answering!

    Take care. Ron

Ron  

here  is  a   Dodge   light   repair  truck   with  what  appears  to   be   a   gas  alarm    horn   mounted  on  the  cowl

[bobs1916]

Ron

I  have   shown   great  interest  and  curiosity   in  your   project  as   I  am  embarking  on  a   not  so   different    one. Here is  the   GMC  model   16     truck  which  I  have  brought   home  with  the  intention    of   building  the  second  type AA  Ambulance  body.    The   period   photo   shows  both   body  types  with  the   closed   box   style  in  the  foreground  and   a   couple   of  the   slat   body   types  (your  type) in  the  center   with  the  canvas rolled   down.

bob  

[ron hausmann]

19 minutes ago, bobs1916 said:

Ron

I  have   shown   great  interest  and  curiosity   in  your   project  as   I  am  embarking  on  a   not  so   different    one. Here is  the   GMC  model   16     truck  which  I  have  brought   home  with  the  intention    of   building  the  second  type AA  Ambulance  body.    The   period   photo   shows  both   body  types  with  the   closed   box   style  in  the  foreground  and   a   couple   of  the   slat   body   types  (your  type) in  the  center   with  the  canvas rolled   down.

bob  

Best of luck on your build.

Your GMC chassis is longe4 than my Kissel chassis is so you will have a less tight driver compartment.

once you start, you’ll find that there’s really only one way that you can frame that body, open or closed.

if I am help, let me know.

Ron 

[bobs1916]

3 hours ago, ron hausmann said:

Best of luck on your build.

Your GMC chassis is longe4 than my Kissel chassis is so you will have a less tight driver compartment.

once you start, you’ll find that there’s really only one way that you can frame that body, open or closed.

if I am help, let me know.

Ron 

Thanks   Ron

 

There  is  an  original    GMC    ambulance   not  far  from  me   .  I  plan  to  see   it  as  soon  as   the   weather   warms   up

bob

[bobs1916]

Ron

I   missed  getting  this  plate.   It  was  for  a  subcontracted   GMC   ambulance.     I  hope  to   get  it   duplicated. It   gives  you  an idea  as  to  the  style  of  plates  that  were  used  on  these  lighter  trucks

bob

[ron hausmann]

21 hours ago, bobs1916 said:

Ron

Your  meticulous  build    is   to    be  commended.    I  do  have   a  few   questions/comments.  Several  of  the  pictures   you    posted   of   period   vehicles   are   the   GMC  model   16   AA     US Army  ambulance   first  body    style.  Is   this  the  model  on  which   you  based   your   vehicle?  I  am    curious    as  I  am  in  the  process  of    building   a  type  2   body   style   GMC   Army  ambulance  body on an  original  Type   16     chassis.

As  a point  of  information,  and  nothing   less , the   Army    artillery    body the   plate   which    you    mounted on  your  truck   was    used    either  on   the    3  ton  FWD   or   Nash     truck  chassis.   I  know  you   have   great   attention   to   detail   and   perhaps   if   you might  want  to  secure or   fabricate a  simple    brass  plate   that  was   on   the   3/4 ton  ambulance .  This  IMHO    would  be   more accurate    because   it  appears  to   me  that   you  have   in   fact    recreated    a  near  perfect Type AA   army   ambulance  on  a  Kissel   chassis.   

There   are   very   few   people    that   would  know  of, or      even  care  about ,  the  remarks  I  have   just   made as  to      WW  1    vehicle   minutia.  I   share  it   with   you    in  case  you   might   be  interested.      

Hey Bob,

    You are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate your information! It all helps.

    I am aware that the plaque I’ve mounted likely came from a much heavier FWD or Nash WW1 truck. I contacted Heil company who originally made the truck for which the plaque was made, but they have no records and were really clueless.

    The real (and selfish) reason that I’ve put artillery markings on this light truck, which could also be an ambulance, is more personal. I did a lot of research to do this naming. Here goes.

    A. Kissel made military trucks before WW1. Well documented. Even international sales.

    B. Kissel was located in farm country Wisconsin..

    C. The US Army experimented and researched using trucks before WW1 in Wisconsin. True story.

    D. I was born where Kissels were made in Wisconsin. On a farm near Hartford and West Bend.

    E. I have since lived in Michigan for 50 years.

    F. In 1917 the Wisconsin and Michigan National Guards were “federalized” into the US Army 32nd Division, better known as the “Red Arrow” Division. 
    G. As part of this federalization, the Wisconsin National Guard’s “1st Wisconsin Cavalry” became the US Army’s “120 Field Artillery Regiment”.

    H. Before Federalization, the Wisconsin National Guard had some motor vehicles. In all likelihood, they used Wisconsin Built motor vehicles for the Wisconsin NG.

 

    With all that military history,  as well as my own personal history, I’ve recreated this light artillery truck and marked it with the Wisconsin-Michigan Red Arrow Division symbol as well as the 120th Field Artillery emblem. I always was enamored by cavalry movies as a kid, and now I can be part of that business thru this truck.

    Sorry for the long-winded ness .  Ron Hausmann  

    

[edinmass]

Today in Miami, while our northern friends are digging out.........it was sunny and breezy today..........here is a car that matches the theme of the thread......

[ron hausmann]

23 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Today in Miami, while our northern friends are digging out.........it was sunny and breezy today..........here is a car that matches the theme of the thread......

Early 1921 Kissel Model 6-45 Gold Bug Speedster. Early 21’s had flat fenders and full running boards; Late 21 they changed to step plates and crowned fenders.

[bobs1916]

AHHH    so  it   is   becoming   clear.  Nevertheless   it  is  a   superb  short  wheelbase   ambulance/light   artillery   truck  that I  hope  you   can  enjoy  as  much   as  I  enjoy  my  Great  War   vehicles.   I  may  very  well  be  in  touch as  I  move  ahead   my  my  latest  project  and   I  will  refer  back  to  this    thread  to   replicate   some  of  your   details.  One   quick   question   where  did  you   secure   your   khaki  canvas?

It  looks  spot  on  and  I  was  thinking  maybe   I  use   khaki  this  time  rather than   OD.  It  took   me   7  months  to  find   the  color  and   weight  as specified in  1918  manual . It   was  made  on  old  US  looms  that  had  been   sold  off  to   an  Indian  canvas  maker.  I  found  a  shop  in  Louisiana  that  imports it   to  use  on  heavy  trucks.   The   army  used  both  OD  and  khaki  and  often  you  can  see  both   colors  in  one  photo.

[ron hausmann]

Bob,   
      Since these vehicles were often brush painted in the field by troopers using a poorly described paint recipie, and since the term “khaki” can have numerous meanings, it stood to reason to me that there should be a lot of variations. I, like you have seen many different WW1 vehicles painted a wide range of colors. Really anything close is correct.
      My body is painted with a Rustoleum shade I’ve identified earlier in this thread. And then I added brushstrokes. To make sure it is drab. As to canvas, I just asked my top guy to match as good as he could.

     Thanks, Ron 

[ron hausmann]

All -

    Ok getting back to finishing the 1917 Kissel military truck. 
    Waiting for body from painter to be able to continue restoring my 1923 Kissel Gold Bug, so have time.

    Here is the “brand new” nearly finished Kissel engine, number 38-4631. It’s casting date was 2-1-17 and it’s head was cast 2-27-17. The conncecting rods and crankshaft are numbers-matching.

    Had a hard time getting the water pump to work. For now, we are mounting a model 45 pump on this model 38 engine because I have a spare and these interchange. Probably 5 people in the world will ever be able to tell the difference!

    Beautiful workmanship on this old girl.

    Ron Hausmann P.E.

[ojh.]

Fantastic!  I just read thru the thread and admired the passion you commit to the build of this truck, just fantastic.

Here's a photo of the 1918 Quad I work on, its been converted to civilian use and has an added hydraulic dump bed.

[stretch cab]

Does your hydraulic cylinder go vertical lifting the box by the cables attached to the corners?  That is pretty neat!

[ron hausmann]

As of December 30, 2022, here are pictures of the engine for the 1917 Kissel light truck. It’s going to be painted 1-1-2023.

Ron Hausmann P.E.

[ron hausmann]

Looking good! New Kissel 6-38 engine.

ron hausmann 

[ron hausmann]

All dressed up and ready to go.!

turned it over dry today for first time.

will test run this week.

Ron Hausmann P.E.

[ojh.]

That looks great Ron, love your cradle, you don't mind if I shamelessly copy it I hope?  I have a 6cyl to assemble and have been wondering how best to do it.

I have a question, when you cleaned your carburetor, you mentioned soaking it in an industrial cleaner, do you recall the brand name?

Thanks, Oj

[ron hausmann]

10 minutes ago, ojh. said:

That looks great Ron, love your cradle, you don't mind if I shamelessly copy it I hope?  I have a 6cyl to assemble and have been wondering how best to do it.

I have a question, when you cleaned your carburetor, you mentioned soaking it in an industrial cleaner, do you recall the brand name?

Thanks, Oj

I just soaked it in a bucket of hardware store “parts cleaner” but then disassembled and cleaned each piece with “carb cleaner”.

Ron

[Larry Schramm]

Here is where the Buick trucks in 1915 went to the war effort. Chassis of choice of the British Red Cross.

 

[ron hausmann]

All,

   After nearly a year that I spent working on m 1924 Kissel Gold Bug, I’ve returned t finishing the 1917 Kissel US Army Light Truck..

   Last we3k we cranked up the engine with the help of a new Remy 284 coill and correct distributor cap. 
   Today we put the engine into the truck , with hopes that she will be drive able by next week. Things went surprisingly easy during the install. 
   Here are pctures.

   Ron Hausmann P.E.

[JV Puleo]

I'm not surprised it went well. Does anyone know as much about Kissel's as you do!

[ron hausmann]

Well today we ran it and she purrs! 
here are pictures of a completed Kissel Midel 6-38 engine, perfectly balanced, and complete.

   We will test drive her Friday morning!

   Ron Hausmann P.E.

[wayne sheldon]

Are those model T Ford sidelamps, or after-market knockoffs made and sold by the same companies that made the lamps for Ford? After-market versions were made using the same patterns and dies as used to make the lamps for Ford, and were sometimes identical to the Ford lamps, and sometimes had subtle differences.

 

I have an odd pair (not complete as I swiped a couple parts I needed for my model T) of after-market commercial lamps that clearly were made by the same companies that Made Ford's lamps, and over the years have seen several others. The pair I have mount on a single bolt out the back of the lamp just like the Ford lamps were mounted. Some of the after-market lamps mounted on a single bolt out one side instead. My pair has smooth big clear lenses without the ripples in circles like the Ford lamps had, and also has a smaller clear lens on one side, mirror images of each other (a right and a left lamp). Originally, these were often mounted on the back of the cab of trucks so workers could see to load or unload the truck at night.

 

It is a long story why, but late in model T production, the non-starter model Ts had an odd tail-lamp that was sort of the earlier more common version turned sideways. It was called the "Ford-O" tail-lamp. Ford-O tail-lamps are quite common today and not worth much because nobody really wants them. They were lousy tail-lamps when new, the red tail lens was too small and the clear license plate lens was too large, the combination proved not very effective. So when the loss leader non-starter cars were purchased new, many purchasers replaced the silly Ford-O lamp with a used easily gotten cheap older Ford tail-lamp. Hundreds, maybe even thousands, of Ford-O tail-lamps found themselves sitting on barn shelves for decades only to be found and kept later. I personally have seen probably fifty Ford-O tail-lamps at swap meets, and have one of them in nearly NOS condition sitting on a shelf in my "barn" (it came in a box full of Ford lamps and parts that I bought years ago)!

 

Just some unusual information about oil lamps of the era.

[ron hausmann]

All,

   Started her up and tuned her today. 
   Some modest trim work, hood adjustment, lighting, and minor other things to do.

   But she’s essentially ready to cruise with nine Grandchildren

   Ron Hausmann P.E.

[keiser31]

SWEEEEEEEEEEEET!

[Mr. Don]

Hello, here is the only image I still have of our shop's business card. Mr. Freiler started the business in 1970, and the Veit Nam War was still going. The war was of course very unpopular, and though he wanted a military vehicle, he also wanted something unique, and maybe hopeful. -he chose an ambulance. This artwork was drawn off of a scratch-built model, (a GMC / Model T hybrid).

 

Unfortunately, the shop closed back in the late 90's, after almost 30 years and a lot of good times!

 

I thought you might find it of interest.

Edited March 5 by Mr. Don (see edit history)

[wrward]

Not to derail anything but that business card for Paul Freiler's Historical Models brings back memories. I spent a lot of time in that shop(both locations) admiring the completed models on display and trying to decide which kit I could afford. Many of the customers seemed to be engineers from TRW or Hughes. Thanks Don!!

[ron hausmann]

All -

   Finally after several years, the Kissel 6-38 engine is installed, tuned, and running. And the headlights are mounted. Just some final wiring, horn, trim and a lot of remedial cleaning and touch up, but she’s essentially done!,,

   Ron Hausmann P.E.

[John Bloom]

So Cool Ron.  I believe the Greenbrier is featuring "working cars" this year.  This would seem to fit right in with that theme........

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

It’s always great to see the finish line. Mike

[ron hausmann]

All - Closing out this topic with a couple pictures of the finished vehicle. 

[edinmass]

Looks good Ron. Now it’s time to build a Kissel tow truck! 👍

[ron hausmann]

Pictures from Woodward Dream Cruise August, 2024 and TV reporters.

Ron Hausmann P.E.

[wayne sheldon]

Not sure which I like best? The truck? Or the smiles on all the kids!