New 1963-73 Riviera Book …

[Rivman]

I noticed Ray is advertising this new book on the ROA website …

 

 

From the website …

 

Buick Riviera 1963-73
By Norm Mort.

A new publication will be released this January on the 1963-73 Rivieras. The author Norm Mort has written many books on collectible cars and his latest is now available for pre-publication order. This 7.5 x 8-inch softcover book includes 110 photos within its 96 pages. Many of the photos were provided by the ROA. The material includes factory specs, options, reviews, road tests. and much more. The book is available from Amazon by searching “Buick Book Norm.” Details will appear in the Jan/Feb Riview.

 

The website says it “will be released this January,” but I found it was already on ebay.

 

Has anyone bought it yet?

[Rivdrivn]

I ordered one for my library but haven’t received it yet.

[SwedeDownUnderR63]

Ordered today, thanks for the tip.

[dship]

Ordered mine today via eBay.

[JZRIV]

Please let us know what the book is like when it arrives. I was surprised to see my car on the cover. Had no idea. The author did not see a need to get permission from the owners of photos.

Wonder why I am seeing 2 versions. One with a main cover photo of a 66 and another a 72. Seems odd if its a new book.

Edited November 15, 2019 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[jframe]

I thought these books were on preorder until next spring?

[68RIVGS]

6 hours ago, JZRIV said:

Please let us know what the book is like when it arrives. I was surprised to see my car on the cover. Had no idea. The author did not see a need to get permission from the owners of photos.

Wonder why I am seeing 2 versions. One with a main cover photo of a 66 and another a 72. Seems odd if its a new book.

 

From what I googled Jason: They both appear to be the same, both 96 pages but different release dates?

The Boat Tail version was available Amazon UK, 5/11/2019.

Your car on cover: Preorder - available21/07/2020.

Slightly confusing - maybe contact the Author, he's Canadian eh?

Edited November 15, 2019 by 68RIVGS (see edit history)

[J3Studio]

6 hours ago, JZRIV said:

Please let us know what the book is like when it arrives. I was surprised to see my car on the cover. Had no idea. The author did not see a need to get permission from the owners of photos.

 

If I can identify the owner of a car that's completely viewable and/or recognizable, I will attempt to contact them. Of course, you also have to worry about the photographer, who often has more legal claims. This is why I use my own photographs as much as possible.

 

6 hours ago, JZRIV said:

Wonder why I am seeing 2 versions. One with a main cover photo of a 66 and another a 72. Seems odd if its a new book.

 

In these days of Print On Demand, this is getting more common.

Edited November 16, 2019 by J3Studio (see edit history)

[Rivman]

YES, as Jason says, let us know how “accurate” it is when you receive it.

 

I find it interesting that it is a Canadian writer, and it is published in the UK. And, as Jason says, a new/different cover on a brand-new book?

 

Amazon says it is taking pre-orders for July of 2020, but on ebay it is available for delivery right now from Canada and the UK.

[68RIVGS]

I saw  two listings on evilBay for this publication, with Boat Tail covers, and they were both UK locations. I didn't see any Canadian source listed Randall ?

There were also two Australian sources listed for the Boat Tail cover version.

Edited November 16, 2019 by 68RIVGS (see edit history)

[J3Studio]

eBay sometimes (often?) shows different results based on your IP address.

[KongaMan]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 9:17 AM, JZRIV said:

I was surprised to see my car on the cover. Had no idea. The author did not see a need to get permission from the owners of photos.

Which could be problematic should the owners decide to press that matter.  Copyright violations can run thousands of dollars per instance -- and every photo in every book sold is a separate instance.

[J3Studio]

1 hour ago, KongaMan said:

Which could be problematic should the owners decide to press that matter.  Copyright violations can run thousands of dollars per instance -- and every photo in every book sold is a separate instance.

 

Correct. Also proving that I misread what @JZRIV wrote …

Edited November 17, 2019 by J3Studio (see edit history)

[SwedeDownUnderR63]

I got mine yesterday, the boat tail version. The information seems mostly correct with attribution to sources. Most, if not all photos, has courtesy information. I have added the preface FYI.

 

[1965rivgs]

  I havnt seen the book so cant comment on it in its entirety but the 3rd paragraph of the preface is puzzling??

Tom Mooney

 

[KongaMan]

A couple of things in that preface are puzzling.

[JZRIV]

Thanks for posting that preface Jan.

Perplexing for me as well. I have learned my car is pictured at least 4 times in the book and it was very unfortunate that I was never contacted for permission, nor was given any photo credits (to my knowledge as I do not have the book). Only photo "courtesy ROA". I see my name in the preface but there is no relevance connecting name to photos. I had no idea ROA was providing my photos for this book nor had any hint of its development. Some may be flattered to see their car in the book. I am not.

 

The author and his son the "photographer" should have paid meet registration and a hotel stay to attend a couple ROA nationals and taken their OWN photographs for the book instead of pirating them off the backs of the people who took them for profit. Between my wife and I, we spent over 50 hours photographing the car driving to various locations from the garage to 50 miles away setting up various shots at specific times of day for best lighting.  Anyone who has done this understands how time consuming it is. 300 plus photos were taken over the course of a few days then countless hours in front of the computer whittling them down to the best ones which were sent to ROA for the showcase article in the Riview and only the Riview and never dreamed they would be given to someone to publish a book for profit.

Edited November 26, 2019 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[J3Studio]

37 minutes ago, JZRIV said:

Perplexing for me as well. I have learned my car is pictured at least 4 times in the book and it was very unfortunate that I was never contacted for permission, nor was given any photo credits (to my knowledge as I do not have the book). Only photo "courtesy ROA". I see my name in the preface but there is no relevance connecting name to photos. I had no idea ROA was providing my photos for this book nor had any hint of its development. Some may be flattered to see their car in the book. I am not.

 

The author and his son the "photographer" should have paid meet registration and a hotel stay to attend a couple ROA nationals and taken their OWN photographs for the book instead of pirating them off the backs of the people who took them for profit. Between my wife and I, we spent over 50 hours photographing the car driving to various locations from the garage to 50 miles away setting up various shots at specific times of day for best lighting.  Anyone who has done this understands how time consuming it is. 300 plus photos were taken over the course of a few days then countless hours in front of the computer whittling them down to the best ones which were sent to ROA for the showcase article in the Riview and only the Riview and never dreamed they would be given to someone to publish a book for profit.

 

Which is why I ask. When folks do refuse (relatively rare), I just reroute …

[NC1968Riviera]

Jason, 

 

Thumbs-up agreement with your comments above. 

[Rivdrivn]

Were they in fact given, or just taken, from the ROA website? Do we know?

[KongaMan]

I believe that the issue is they weren't the ROA's to give.  Unless there's an agreement which specifies otherwise, publishing a picture on a website or in a magazine does not transfer rights or ownership to the publisher, nor does it transfer the image to the public domain.  Ownership and the rights which accrue thereto remain with the photographer.  Further use of the pictures requires permission from the photographer.

[RivNut]

4 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

I believe that the issue is they weren't the ROA's to give.  Unless there's an agreement which specifies otherwise, publishing a picture on a website or in a magazine does not transfer rights or ownership to the publisher, nor does it transfer the image to the public domain.  Ownership and the rights which accrue thereto remain with the photographer.  Further use of the pictures requires permission from the photographer.

Unless Ray, thinking the ROA owned rights to the photos,  gave his permission to the authors to use them.  If so ??????????

[KongaMan]

10 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Unless Ray, thinking the ROA owned rights to the photos,  gave his permission to the authors to use them.  If so ??????????

As the expression goes, ignorance of the law is no excuse.  If the ROA didn't own the images, the author published them without permission -- irrespective of whatever misconceptions may have contributed.

 

But really, if this guy has written several car books before, he should know this stuff.  Not corroborating ownership is, at best, sloppy.

[Chimera]

8 hours ago, JZRIV said:

Thanks for posting that preface Jan.

Perplexing for me as well. I have learned my car is pictured at least 4 times in the book and it was very unfortunate that I was never contacted for permission, nor was given any photo credits (to my knowledge as I do not have the book). Only photo "courtesy ROA". I see my name in the preface but there is no relevance connecting name to photos. I had no idea ROA was providing my photos for this book nor had any hint of its development. Some may be flattered to see their car in the book. I am not.

 

The author and his son the "photographer" should have paid meet registration and a hotel stay to attend a couple ROA nationals and taken their OWN photographs for the book instead of pirating them off the backs of the people who took them for profit. Between my wife and I, we spent over 50 hours photographing the car driving to various locations from the garage to 50 miles away setting up various shots at specific times of day for best lighting.  Anyone who has done this understands how time consuming it is. 300 plus photos were taken over the course of a few days then countless hours in front of the computer whittling them down to the best ones which were sent to ROA for the showcase article in the Riview and only the Riview and never dreamed they would be given to someone to publish a book for profit.

 

Yeah, I think your vehicle is pictured 6 times total. There is a second showing of the front cover when you open the book and I THINK they also show the inside of your vehicle for the 66 section.

 

I just ASSumed they got permission when I purchased the book, yet basically it says courtesy RoA. Seems best to get permission; I'm not sure on the technicalities of law if perhaps RoA does own the material in some way, but still authors should do the due diligence. The situation should get a swift remedy.

 

Jason, your vehicle certainly makes the book better! Heheheheheh.

 

Another problem of the book is that the author mentions the 67 GS air cleaner is "prized today," yet does not even SHOW the Star Wars Air Cleaner...what WHAT?!

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Chimera (see edit history)

[NC1968Riviera]

7 hours ago, KongaMan said:

I believe that the issue is they weren't the ROA's to give.  Unless there's an agreement which specifies otherwise, publishing a picture on a website or in a magazine does not transfer rights or ownership to the publisher, nor does it transfer the image to the public domain.  Ownership and the rights which accrue thereto remain with the photographer.  Further use of the pictures requires permission from the photographer.

Here, here! 👍👏

[NC1968Riviera]

9 hours ago, KongaMan said:

I believe that the issue is they weren't the ROA's to give.  Unless there's an agreement which specifies otherwise, publishing a picture on a website or in a magazine does not transfer rights or ownership to the publisher, nor does it transfer the image to the public domain.  Ownership and the rights which accrue thereto remain with the photographer.  Further use of the pictures requires permission from the photographer.

I just reviewed Mr. Knott's picture and Riview article submission documents. Neither of them state that any photos submitted to the editor become property of the ROA. There is also no such statement that I could find anywhere on the ROA website.

 

It is my opinion, ownership of submitted photos stays with the photograph taker/owner, not the ROA.

 

In my opinion, the ROA Webmaster and/or Riview editor must request permission from photograph owners prior to using such media outside of the original purpose for submitting those images, (inclusion in Riview articles).

 

It is also my opinion that exceptions should be made for thumbnail images of the cover of The Riview that are sent to the BCA as recruitment ads in The Bugle or sent to other organizations for inclusion in their publications for recruitment purposes.

 

My two cents worth...

Edited November 26, 2019 by NC1968Riviera (see edit history)

[Ray_Knott]

To clarify your concerns, I sent photos from the ROA collection to be used in this book. It was in the spirit of supporting and encouraging the publication of a book devoted to the Riviera. It has been over 30 years since a book was published to include resource information and photos on our favorite car. Having such a publication goes a long way to promote the marque and educate owners, ROA members or not.

I am sorry that some are upset that they were not contacted, but I had no prior knowledge of what photos would be selected for the book.

I am currently on vacation with very limited internet access and can be reached best at ray@rivowners.org after my return on December 10^th.