2020 Grand National Allentown NOW GETTYSBURG!!!

[Bhigdog]

On 2/23/2020 at 6:18 PM, Mark McAlpine said:

The club doesn't charge a spectator admission fee because we want to attract more people than just AACA members participating in the show.  We want our shows to remain open, family-friendly, activities and hopefully attract more people to our hobby and our club.

That is just plain wishful thinking.

If the AACA thinks civilians wandering the field would increase membership why aren't they working the field? Where are the representatives handing out free back issues of the mag? How about a nice 5 color brochure extolling the benefits  of membership with a coupon knocking $10 off of a first year membership? Give every member a couple to hand out when they are chatted up by a civilian.

Not every show has the logistics that lend itself to collecting admission but I'm certain a number of them do. Imagine what even a $5 entry fee to Hershey, earmarked for regional shows, could do to offset region's costs.

 

On 2/23/2020 at 6:18 PM, Mark McAlpine said:

and yes, possibly charging a reasonable fee for trailer parking. 

 

I have no problem with the fact that trailer parking and  costs are a fact of life and must be accounted for.  What I disagree with is using those costs to foster a two tier class of attendees. We, the attendees, are one group committed to staging a show for ALL our mutual benefit. As such the costs should be spread evenly among the attendees. The argument is that the trailer folks should pay for security because "others" don't need it. An argument could also be made that the "others" should help pay for the security because they get the benefit of seeing and enjoying those cars that require a trailer to attend. The argument has also been made that banquet goers have to pay extra, why not trailers.

The banquet is not an integral part of the show. The cars that are trailered to the show are an integral part of it and the argument could be made they enhance it.

 

On 2/23/2020 at 6:18 PM, Mark McAlpine said:

for Nationals we're encouraging the host regions/chapters to hold costs down--barbeques, informal dinners, etc. 

 

Excellent idea and I'm guessing, if implemented, it will be well received. Just between you and me the usual award banquets are expensive, marginally palatable, and booooring. My wife, long ago, absolutely refused to attend another. I agreed.

 

On 2/23/2020 at 6:18 PM, Mark McAlpine said:

The cost of vehicle registration doesn't cover a 1/3 of the cost of the trophy.  We could opt for less expensive trophies--and who knows, maybe some day we'll have to--but we want them to be special and want our members to take pride in their well-earned awards.

 

Another area that needs to be explored. I long ago accepted the grill badges and gifted the trophies, including GN's, back to the AACA by refusing them. Surely there are ways that recognize and reward achievement without spending $100 on a dust collector that will eventually end up at a yard sale.

 

Has anyone explored the feasibility of establishing a few AACA "Mini Hersheys" around the country? Meets held every year at the same location much like Macungie or Strausstown. Both locals and AACA at the same location with AACA cars in their own class to be judged.

A general admission would be charged, a portion to benefit the AACA.

 

Yes I know. That flies in the face of long established dogma. And: "we're all just so damn busy".

 

Thanks for your thoughts, Mark. I may not agree with the way problems are being addressed but I do understand what you are saying. I also realize my ideas may have flaws. Some fatal, but others maybe not so much. But when the club can't even get it's web site to record a re-subscription, admits it's known about the problem for some time, then says it's "just too busy"........ as my Chinese friend says "Sum Ting Wong"..........Bob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Joe Block]

Nice thoughts

[Frank Szymkowski]

hi all. Question.. We have juniors for all three of our cars and was thinking of heading to Allentown this summer with one. This show is just a grand national or is judging for seniors too? Thanks!!!

[ted sweet]

i believe its just a grand national

[Steve Moskowitz]

It is only a Grand National...if you attend another show before the GN and get your Senior you can enter it.  

[ex98thdrill]

I've been reading this trailer parking issue and I can answer some of this.

 

Bear in mind that when you host an AACA National Meet that you cannot charge admission to spectators. 

 

In many cases you can't always get your showfield site for free, so you need the cashflow to pay the bills.  If you need additional property for car owners to park their car trailers, that too often comes at a cost.

 

I chaired the Eastern Spring Meet ten years ago and when the meet started off, our region was $16,000 in the hole.  As people registered for different events, and through selling merchandise we did turn a profit, but for a long time, that was very uncertain.  Understand that $16,000 deficit was ten years ago, so I'm sure today you'd be looking at $20,000 plus.

 

I cannot remember how much we charged for trailer parking, but we used that fee to offset some of our expenses and cover the cost of security.  Back then we weren't required to have an EMT on the showfield, but at that time I was an EMT, and I had another EMT, golf cart, jump bad with oxygen and a debrillator that didn't cost us any money.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to talk anyone out of hosting a national meet, but as someone who has chaired one, there's a lot of time, a lot of planning and a lot of money involved.  You'd be surprised what it takes to put on a national meet.  I know I not only found that out, I also found out how hard the National Directors and the office staff at AACA Headquarters work too.

 

In the case of Hershey, the car owners have free trailer parking, but think of how much you pay to park so you can walk in the flea market every day all week long??  I've had a flea market space for 11 years now, but I forgot how much HERCO charges to park every day.

 

 

[Frank Szymkowski]

thanks!

[Bhigdog]

On 4/1/2020 at 1:59 PM, ex98thdrill said:

Bear in mind that when you host an AACA National Meet that you cannot charge admission to spectators. 

 

At many meets it would be quite possible to charge spectator admission. So just to clarify: "cannot" should be changed to "not allowed to".

On 4/1/2020 at 1:59 PM, ex98thdrill said:

In many cases you can't always get your showfield site for free, so you need the cashflow to pay the bills.  If you need additional property for car owners to park their car trailers, that too often comes at a cost.

 

No doubt that's true. However there are many other costs that don't directly benefit EVERY entrant yet EVERY entrant shares in those costs. That's as it should be. But as far as I can see the folks that trailer is the only cohort singled out to be charged extra so as to lower the expenses for others who, for whatever reason, don't trailer. 

The argument could be made that many of the trailered cars are in the upper tier of display-ability and the show would be diminished by their absence. Why would any manager choose to hurt the goose that lays the golden egg? Defies logic.

It's actually a cost shifting scheme to benefit some at the cost of others and a disappointing lack of initiative.

Personally I choose not to submit..................Bob

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[ex98thdrill]

I guess being that you have all of the answers, you should chair a national meet and show the rest of us how it's done...

 

[Bhigdog]

1 hour ago, ex98thdrill said:

I guess being that you have all of the answers, you should chair a national meet and show the rest of us how it's done...

 

 

Nope, never once said I have ALL or even any of the answers.

That does not, however,  preclude me from offering my observations and suggestions. Sometimes the outside observer looking in has a lot clearer view than those on the inside looking out.

As for my not actually chairing a national meet I offer the following:

You do not have to be a chicken to judge an egg.

Your response does nothing to advance the argument that nothing needs to change vis-a -vis national shows. I have stated a few suggestions on how to improve the financials of national shows. Perhaps they are not workable but then again maybe they are in some/many cases.

I've received a few rebuttals to my suggestions, a few quite gracious and others somewhat pointed.

The common thread of the rebuttals is a variation of "we've always done it this way" or "We're just so overworked".

So, if you have some cogent reasons why some different things are totally unworkable and should not at least be explored please let us know.

Be advised that "We've always done it this way" and "We're just so over worked" are already taken.............Cheers.............Bob

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Dynaflash8]

I have a hotel room, but haven't registered yet, since I don't know if the show will be cancelled.  If it isn't I plan to register my 1991 Buick Park Avenue near the close of registration and drive it up there.  It is a Senior car.  I don't want to pull the trailer with my '39 Buick in it.

[Avanti Bill]

I would gladly give up a trophy and just get the badges, in fact I did this for Hershey last year.  There should be a check box on the application if you are willing to forgo the trophy so the club can save the money and the need to haul them to the event.  I wouldn't mind paying a little more for the registration as I understand how expensive it is to put on an event and frankly in the scheme of things it is probably the least expensive portion of your participation.  As to paying for trailer parking at a GN event I think this would be counterproductive.  First a very high percentage of GN cars are trailered and I think this should be rolled into the registration fee.  I would recommend against charging the public to attend, in fact I have advocated promoting public attendance through some social or other advertising conduit.  The more people you have attending the more chances of you coming up with new members and frankly the more interesting the show is for the competitors.

[Steve Moskowitz]

I will not belabor any points here as it futile.    The national club uses little excuses but does have valid reasons why things are done.  However, some folks choose to believe if changes are not made in the way THEY believe, then the club is not trying to do better.  Usually they are people who have little involvement in the club and have very little understanding of what  is currently being done.  That said, one, there is no parking charge at Allentown for the Grand National, there has never been a parking charge at Auburn and the reason is simple.  National runs  those events and has a different financial model  compared to regions.  I have chaired or co-chaired all these events so this is fact.  Hershey in the past has never had a trailer parking charge.

 

When you figure in the costs of doing a national  show the current registration fee  does not come anywhere close to making the event profitable for the region or club.  The region shares a small portion of the registration fee and the rest goes to national which pays a fraction of the trophy costs. We do have some people who do not want their trophy but the vast majority do want them , do deserve them and do enjoy them.  The current marble based junior trophies  are highly prized!

 

As to charging the public, we are a 501 C 3 and our mission is to serve the public and help educate them on the history of the automobile.  We have not and are not contemplating charging admission to our shows.

 

The club has to listen to its members, all of its members, and we do and have spirited discussions on  all these type of topics.  However, in the end, we have to listen to the majority and do what is best for everyone involved.  That is what we do, that is what we will always do. 

[modelawagon]

How do you actually register.  The brochure has no link.  There is no link anywhere online.

 

Is the show full?

[Steve Moskowitz]

Show is not full.  You can register online from the home page at the top where it shows pre-registration.  You must be a member and the vehicle must be a Senior car to enter the Grand National.  

[modelawagon]

Well I guess that is a bummer.  What is a senior car anyway?

[Steve Moskowitz]

There is a schedule of awards.  You first have to win a National First Prize (First Junior) and then your car becomes a Senior and you must win a Senior Award.  Our judging manual is online on the home page and details all of this.  I am rushing to a meeting so this is short.  You can enter Hershey though as a fist timer!

[Belvedere]

I sent my registration early-on, and to date my check has not been cashed.  Also my stamped envelope has not been returned with registration confirmation.  Is this due to headquarters shut-down?   

[Dynaflash8]

I am holding off registering because of both the virus and my age.  I wrote on the outside envelope that I have to mail no later than July 2.  Is that date still good?

 

Earl Beauchamp

[Steve Moskowitz]

Yes and no!!  We have not cashed any of the checks yet.  Our registration chair was holding off waiting to see the outcome of all this mess!  Sorry to mess up your checkbooks but it will be easier to send back checks if we are forced not to have the event.  However, things are looking better....

[Steve Moskowitz]

Earl, we will try to be as liberal as we can on the deadline in view of circumstances but it would help for people to get them in.  We do have a 700 car limit. 

[Dynaflash8]

2 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Earl, we will try to be as liberal as we can on the deadline in view of circumstances but it would help for people to get them in.  We do have a 700 car limit. 

Okay, I didn't know there was a car limit.  I'll fill out the forms over the weekend.  Class 27-S if I remember correctly.  I'm just afraid mid-July restaurants and motels along the way will still be suspect.

[ex98thdrill]

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 4:24 PM, Mark McAlpine said:

Hello Bob,

 

    Out of curiosity, when's the last time you hosted a national show?  It may not be as easy anymore as you think it is to find free parking for hundreds of trailers.  Yes, some regions that host shows are charging $25 for trailer parking to help partially cover some of their expenses (which can't be added to the registration fee--it's fixed by National), but a lot of regions are also having to pay big dollars to have somewhere secure for members to leave their trailers over night (or several nights). 

 

    I know you've voiced your opinion about this on the Forum numerous times, but personally I don't think paying $25 for a 2-3 nights of secure parking for my trailer and car is unreasonable.  You do think it's unreasonable--and that's your opinion and you have a right to have it and voice it--but unfortunately that means the rest of us don't get to see and enjoy your cars.  (If I remember correctly, don't you have some really nice Tri-5 Buicks and Oldsmobiles?)

 

    Best wishes!  Hope to see you at a future Nationals.

 

[ex98thdrill]

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 4:24 PM, Mark McAlpine said:

Hello Bob,

 

    Out of curiosity, when's the last time you hosted a national show?  It may not be as easy anymore as you think it is to find free parking for hundreds of trailers.  Yes, some regions that host shows are charging $25 for trailer parking to help partially cover some of their expenses (which can't be added to the registration fee--it's fixed by National), but a lot of regions are also having to pay big dollars to have somewhere secure for members to leave their trailers over night (or several nights). 

 

    I know you've voiced your opinion about this on the Forum numerous times, but personally I don't think paying $25 for a 2-3 nights of secure parking for my trailer and car is unreasonable.  You do think it's unreasonable--and that's your opinion and you have a right to have it and voice it--but unfortunately that means the rest of us don't get to see and enjoy your cars.  (If I remember correctly, don't you have some really nice Tri-5 Buicks and Oldsmobiles?)

 

    Best wishes!  Hope to see you at a future Nationals.

Mark, I want to applaud you for answering this.  You did this more diplomatically than I would have.

 

I chaired a national meet ten years ago, so I know the drill and I know it well.  What I don't know are the current changes that have been made over the last ten years. 

 

For those of you who have never hosted a meet, you have many factors.

 

1.  You have a Policy & Procedure manual that you must follow.  This covers, judge's breakfast, registration, show field, publicity, flea market, awards banquet, etc.

2.  You have to have a facility large enough for the show field, banquet, trailer parking, etc.

3.  You have to have the people in charge of all of your committees as well as other people who are there so that each committee can get their job done.

4.  As Meet Chairman, you have to make sure that all of your committees are on point, the policies and procedures are being followed, as well as serve as a liaison with the folks at AACA Headquarters (who are awesome) and the National Directors.  You also have to serve as a liaison with the community where your meet is going to be held because people are going to want to know what you're doing and you're going to need those sponsorship dollars.

5.  You have to have money in the budget to put the show on without bankrupting the club.  In many cases it means having to pick and choose what you can and can't do based on what you can afford while still following the policy.

 

It is so easy to be an armchair quarterback, but the fact remains, that the waters run very deep.  It is easy as the casual observer to find fault, but the logistics are far more than what they seem.

 

One such thing that I always wanted to see was credit card billing for meet registrations.  After chairing a meet I found out that it isn't possible because to do that AACA would have to set up the credit card billing for each region hosting a national event and it would be a logistical nightmare.  Again it seems easy on the surface, but it goes back to the issue of what seems like nothing, the water runs deep and it isn't as easy as you see.

 

The one thing I've learned over the years is that it is hard to host a national event.  They'll never be perfect, but you do the best job you can do.  I have been to some great events, and I have been to some awful events.  In hindsight, Hershey has been hosting a national meet for 65 years, they haven't gotten it perfect, and you can't expect anyone else to it either.  It isn't easy!!  AACA National events are like restoring a car...….very few are completely perfect.

 

In this case you have an armchair quarterback that wants to complain and doesn't want to put his money where his mouth is.  Until they're willing to "walk the walk" they're just wasting everyone else's time....

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by ex98thdrill (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

The thing to fear is not those who disagree with you, but those who are too timid to disagree with you.

Think about it.

(with apologies to N.B.)......................Bob

Edited May 6, 2020 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Guest Mark McAlpine]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:12 PM, ex98thdrill said:

Mark, I want to applaud you for answering this.  You did this more diplomatically than I would have.

 

I chaired a national meet ten years ago, so I know the drill and I know it well.  What I don't know are the current changes that have been made over the last ten years. 

 

For those of you who have never hosted a meet, you have many factors.

 

1.  You have a Policy & Procedure manual that you must follow.  This covers, judge's breakfast, registration, show field, publicity, flea market, awards banquet, etc.

2.  You have to have a facility large enough for the show field, banquet, trailer parking, etc.

3.  You have to have the people in charge of all of your committees as well as other people who are there so that each committee can get their job done.

4.  As Meet Chairman, you have to make sure that all of your committees are on point, the policies and procedures are being followed, as well as serve as a liaison with the folks at AACA Headquarters (who are awesome) and the National Directors.  You also have to serve as a liaison with the community where your meet is going to be held because people are going to want to know what you're doing and you're going to need those sponsorship dollars.

5.  You have to have money in the budget to put the show on without bankrupting the club.  In many cases it means having to pick and choose what you can and can't do based on what you can afford while still following the policy.

 

It is so easy to be an armchair quarterback, but the fact remains, that the waters run very deep.  It is easy as the casual observer to find fault, but the logistics are far more than what they seem.

 

One such thing that I always wanted to see was credit card billing for meet registrations.  After chairing a meet I found out that it isn't possible because to do that AACA would have to set up the credit card billing for each region hosting a national event and it would be a logistical nightmare.  Again it seems easy on the surface, but it goes back to the issue of what seems like nothing, the water runs deep and it isn't as easy as you see.

 

The one thing I've learned over the years is that it is hard to host a national event.  They'll never be perfect, but you do the best job you can do.  I have been to some great events, and I have been to some awful events.  In hindsight, Hershey has been hosting a national meet for 65 years, they haven't gotten it perfect, and you can't expect anyone else to it either.  It isn't easy!!  AACA National events are like restoring a car...….very few are completely perfect.

 

In this case you have an armchair quarterback that wants to complain and doesn't want to put his money where his mouth is.  Until they're willing to "walk the walk" they're just wasting everyone else's time....

 

 

 

    Thanks for the great observations.  For those who've enjoyed participating in a Nationals/Meet but have never chaired one, there are a lot of things that need to be considered, planned for, and done.  As you pointed out, sometimes you have to base your decisions on what the region/chapter can afford and at the same time keeping registration fees reasonable for the associated activities (e.g., tours, ice cream socials, dinners, etc.) so that the event is affordable (especially for families with more people to feed and entertain).  It's like the proverbial duck paddling across the pond--they look so serene, but their feet are paddling like mad underwater to make forward progress.

 

    Yes, holding a Nationals (or Tour) takes a lot of planning, a lot of work, and a lot of volunteers, but I don't want to scare people off.  It's doable--you just need something in charge who's organized and can keep everything moving in the same forward direction.

 

    Probably the most significant thing (at least in my opinion) that's changed since you last hosted a Nationals/Meet is that the AACA President now assigns one of the National Directors as a Liaison Director to the Nationals or Tour Chairperson to serve as an advisor and to coordinate support from AACA HQ.  Yes, everything you need to do is laid out in the AACA Policy & Procedure Manual, Nationals Checklist, and Important Dates for AACA Nationals timeline, and Tour Handbook, but it's helpful to have someone with experience to help review your planning and budget, offer suggestions, and coordinate the support you need from AACA HQ.

 

    Thanks again for your observations!  Be safe and stay healthy.  I have faith that we'll have some AACA national activities later this year.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Mark McAlpine (see edit history)

[Dynaflash8]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:34 PM, Steve Moskowitz said:

Earl, we will try to be as liberal as we can on the deadline in view of circumstances but it would help for people to get them in.  We do have a 700 car limit. 

I said I would, but I still haven't mailed my registration yet.  I'm extremely worried about all of the motels and who is cleaning them up, on my way  from Florida to PA.  I'm also not too sure the Governor of PA is going to let it happen either. 

[jscheib]

Earl,

 

I am thinking - No.1, are the motels along the way will be open??  Many are restricted to essential workers only to allow then to stay so as not to expose their families.  I know all in CT are mandated to this, at least for now.  Expect the will open soon.  Not sure what the rule is in PA, but I feel the AACA must soon make a decision.  We are still 9 weeks to go.

John

[John348]

I understand Earls concerns all to well. I am still in my home in Florida and usually head back to Long Island by now. I am registered and the real killer to this is my home in NY is only about 130 miles from the meet. I can't get anyone to go with me just for the day from the Long Island Area. 

My wife who takes car of here 101 year old mother at home have manged to avoid the virus so far. She is apprehensive of me returning to NY for fear I will bring the virus back to her and her mother. 

 

[Joe Block]

I have agree with Mark McAlpine.  When I was Region  President in the Pacific Northwest, We worked hard to organize a National Meet;  covering cost, meeting hotel-motel guarantees for minimum occupancy and banquet  attendees  is real financial challenge for regions.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Joe Block (see edit history)

[charlier]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:33 PM, Steve Moskowitz said:

Yes and no!!  We have not cashed any of the checks yet.  Our registration chair was holding off waiting to see the outcome of all this mess!  Sorry to mess up your checkbooks but it will be easier to send back checks if we are forced not to have the event.  However, things are looking better....

 

Looks like the registration chair fixed my checkbook a couple of days ago.  😁😁

 

[hwellens]

With Hershey flea market and possibly the car show cancelled in October, what is the latest update on the Grand National in July?

[modelawagon]

Hershey was cancelled.

[hwellens]

As I stated above the flea market was cancelled. Possibly the car show:

Please know that we continue to explore ideas to benefit the hobby and are working toward the possibility of still hosting our usual car show on Saturday in October.  While this may not be doable, AACA and the Hershey Region along with other constituencies are working hard to make this possible.  Please visit our website and social media as often as possible for the latest news.

 

Hershey Region AACA

[ChazA]

Just saw check cashed on 5/20, which was sent in Feb for this GN.  From earlier post, wondering if a decision has been made if checks are being cashed (as supposedly they were waiting to be cashed until they knew), or not related to any decision as of course they can always write a check from region to refund.  

Edited June 2, 2020 by ChazA (see edit history)

[Joe Block]

July 23-25 is still nearly 8 week away.  Hopefully, Penn State will be in opening phases by then. 

 

those if their Governor like my homestate of Washington, it is not slow going.  Our Governor is really conservative on this subject, almost as extreme as his environmental position  about blowing up federal dams on all the rivers that feel Pudget Sound so the Orca Whale will have more salmon to eat. 

[charlier]

21 hours ago, ChazA said:

Just saw check cashed on 5/20, which was sent in Feb for this GN.  From earlier post, wondering if a decision has been made if checks are being cashed (as supposedly they were waiting to be cashed until they knew), or not related to any decision as of course they can always write a check from region to refund.  

 

A few weeks ago when my check was cashed I thought to myself that maybe it was cashed because my check was just at about 90 days since it was written. I have seen some checks over the years (almost always from a business) that expired after 90 days. So, I thought maybe that was the reason it was cashed. Upon further research I found that it appears that checks are most often honored by banks for up to 6 months so maybe that was not the reason.

 

At this point, I choose to believe that cashing the check is a teeny, tiny, glimmer of hope that the Grand National still MIGHT be held as scheduled or be pushed back a little while and still held. Call me an optimist. I do think that the team putting on the GN is trying their very best to make it happen. Regardless of whether it happens or not I would like the say Thank You Very Much to everyone working so hard to try to make this event happen. It is sincerely appreciated.

 

Charlie

Edited June 3, 2020 by charlier (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

Charlie we are, trust me, we are working on this hard and hope to have a decision very soon.  We have a good plan for all our members that involves doing our best to keep people "safe" but let them enjoy a day of old cars. It is frustrating as this state has not made things easy.  Trying to plan with no concept if the state will ease restrictions for some events is more than difficult!

[A. Ballard 35R]

Steve, your patience in handling this miserable set of circumstances over which you have no control is truly commendable. Why is it so hard for people to understand that you and others in Hershey are working with an incredibly frustrating situation due to there being no idea of what Harrisburg will allow.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Human nature sir...we DO understand how badly everyone wants to have an event.  No worries.