1939 Century Cpe $2000 C/L MO

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Here's a link to a C/L ad offering a '39 Century coupe for $2000:

 

https://kansascity.craigslist.org/pts/d/orrick-1939-buick-century-fireball/6884785115.html

 

Ad Copy:

 

Thanks for looking for sale is a 39 Buick Century Fireball straight 8 body has a little rust but not to bad. Needs a good home 2000. What ya see is what ya get has some chrome but for some reason someone else wanted some of it more then the car. ( Bill of sale only no title ) . Don't need no help to sale no checks no scammers.

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I changed the ad to indicate the seller's new asking price of $2,000, rather than the former $2,500.

[B Jake Moran]

Did they make a Special in that coupe body style?  Never seen one.  Verification of this being a Century would be essential to purchase, IMO.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

7 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

Did they make a Special in that coupe body style?  Never seen one.  Verification of this being a Century would be essential to purchase, IMO.

That was my thought from the start. I've seen many Specials labeled as Roadmasters. Just like every Hudson is a Hornet to many dumb sellers. Before getting too enthused about this car, a person would absolutely need to see a clear photo of the ID plate. It could well be a century as in these years you could only get a coupe in a Special or a Century. A Roadmaster coupe would be a wonderful find, but there aren't any.

[Barney Eaton]

In the Special there were two models.....46 was the Business Coupe with no back seat.   46S was the Sport Coupe with folding jump seats and the back side windows slid back about 3 inches.

The Century only came in the 66S Sport Coupe, also with folding jump seats and the sliding side windows.   The Special had 120 inch wheelbase and the small 248 ci engine.

The Century had a 126 in wheelbase and the 320 ci engine used in the large cars.

You can see in one of the photos in the ad that the back side windows have the knob so the window can be opened.....this makes it a Sport Coupe,  not sure how the seller determine that it is a Century as the hood side spear is missing and that

is the only place that it said Special or Century.    I believe it is a Century based on the distance from the front of the door to the rear of the front fender.

No Roadmaster  coupes were made '39

Edited May 14, 2019 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[B Jake Moran]

I did not know the Century had a 126 inch wheelbase.  This was probably shared with the Cadillac 62 series.  That's an impressive wheelbase for a coupe, since my 1949 Roadmaster Sedanette had 122 inch wheelbase.  

This would be one to save I suppose.  

 

[39BuickEight]

54 minutes ago, Barney Eaton said:

 I believe it is a Century based on the distance from the front of the door to the rear of the front fender.

 

100% correct, this is a Century.  The front fender is much closer to the front door on a Special.

 

 

 

[Pete Phillips]

I see part of the missing grille in one of the interior photos. I do have a complete '39 grille if someone should buy this and restore it. It's a rare car, but it has apparently been sitting outside with a couple of the windows down or missing, so the floors may not be much good--so sad. I do see the missing back glass in one of the photos. If the 320 engine, drive train, and the 3.9 Century rear end are intact, then this is worth the asking price along with all of the other parts.

[B Jake Moran]

10 hours ago, Pete Phillips said:

I see part of the missing grille in one of the interior photos. I do have a complete '39 grille if someone should buy this and restore it. It's a rare car, but it has apparently been sitting outside with a couple of the windows down or missing, so the floors may not be much good--so sad. I do see the missing back glass in one of the photos. If the 320 engine, drive train, and the 3.9 Century rear end are intact, then this is worth the asking price along with all of the other parts.

That's not helping!   I hate it when I think about such a difficult project.  In the past 2-3 years I have successfully avoided this trap.  But I googled 1939 Century coupe and several beautiful photos came up. 

 

I know where Orrick is, my Dad lived there for awhile. 

[Barney Eaton]

Save yourself all that trouble.........buy my complete "39 Century Sport Coupe.....restored around 1994 and has maybe 2000 miles since then.  It has every factory option plus the sunvisor, fog lights, spotlights, and very rare stream boards.

[Matt Harwood]

5 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

Save yourself all that trouble.........buy my complete "39 Century Sport Coupe.....restored around 1994 and has maybe 2000 miles since then.  It has every factory option plus the sunvisor, fog lights, spotlights, and very rare stream boards.

 

I sure like that car, Barney.

[tblack]

6 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

Save yourself all that trouble.........buy my complete "39 Century Sport Coupe.....restored around 1994 and has maybe 2000 miles since then.  It has every factory option plus the sunvisor, fog lights, spotlights, and very rare stream boards.

How much??? do you take trade-ins???

[lancemb]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

I sure like that car, Barney.

Me too

[Barney Eaton]

I'm putting the Century in the Bugle at $29,500

[Buickborn]

On 5/13/2019 at 7:02 PM, B Jake Moran said:

I did not know the Century had a 126 inch wheelbase.  This was probably shared with the Cadillac 62 series.  That's an impressive wheelbase for a coupe, since my 1949 Roadmaster Sedanette had 122 inch wheelbase.  

This would be one to save I suppose.  

 

 

122" wheelbase for 1949?  According to my 1949 owner's manual, wheelbase for all Roadmasters that year was 126" -- 121" for the smaller series. 

[B Jake Moran]

11 hours ago, Buickborn said:

 

122" wheelbase for 1949?  According to my 1949 owner's manual, wheelbase for all Roadmasters that year was 126" -- 121" for the smaller series. 

 You may be right as I do not study much on the old cars anymore and go on 30 + year knowledge.  I do know this - the Roadmaster and the Super are the same wheelbase, the difference in the Roadmaster overall length is in the front sheetmetal/front end (1949).  The 121 " sounds like the last year Pre War Special specifications, but that's just an educated guess. 

 

I thought Super and Roadmaster were 122, and it was an eye opening bump when Roadmaster went to 130 or so and shared a big wheelbase on the 4 door sedans with Cadillac in ? 1951 to 1953.

 

Sorry for taking off topic, but it does relate and come full circle to better understand that a Buick buyer in 1939 is essentially getting a Roadmaster in length in coupe form here.  I now wonder if that was the intent of Buick management in 1939.  It's as if someone noticed at the last minute there was no LWB coupe.  Chrysler, Lincoln, Cadillac surely had one.    Then they settled on the Century. 

 

 

[B Jake Moran]

19 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

I'm putting the Century in the Bugle at $29,500

 

Lots of recent discussion on old car pricing.  You could not come close to restoring the subject above for $29,500.  Advantage Barney!

 

I went to looking for 39 Century coupe information on the Internet and came across a reproduction ad for a 1939 Century Coupe in red.  I may buy the ad and frame it.  But it mentions the stream boards as optional.   In looking at your car with them, it appears like an early attempt to start the running board removal process.  I don't know the answer for sure, but it appears in 1939 all or most bodies (except Cadillac's 60S) still were drawn with running boards in mind.  Therefore, without a running board the sill area might look naked, or unadorned, so something had to go there.  Thus - stream boards were invented.

 

Or I could be totally wrong.  In any case running boards gone 2 years later.

Edited May 16, 2019 by B Jake Moran (see edit history)

[B Jake Moran]

Seller dropped his price to $1500.  This is my kind of seller, really trying to move the car.  I have reached out to him because I will be going to Lawrence KS on Saturday to pick up an SUV with my oldest daughter for her to drive.  She will be on her own coming back.  Seller said Saturday afternoon will be fine.  I'll get some photos and more detail then. 

[39BuickEight]

Of course there is a lot more to it than the money, but there is WAY more than a $28,000 difference between this car and Barney's beaut!

 

It would take a special buyer to make this car what it could be.  If I was a betting man, I hate to say it, but my money would be it turns into part of a rod project.  I guess that's better than what it is now. 

[Buickborn]

2 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

 You may be right as I do not study much on the old cars anymore and go on 30 + year knowledge.  I do know this - the Roadmaster and the Super are the same wheelbase, the difference in the Roadmaster overall length is in the front sheetmetal/front end (1949).  The 121 " sounds like the last year Pre War Special specifications, but that's just an educated guess. 

 

I thought Super and Roadmaster were 122, and it was an eye opening bump when Roadmaster went to 130 or so and shared a big wheelbase on the 4 door sedans with Cadillac in ? 1951 to 1953.

 

Sorry for taking off topic, but it does relate and come full circle to better understand that a Buick buyer in 1939 is essentially getting a Roadmaster in length in coupe form here.  I now wonder if that was the intent of Buick management in 1939.  It's as if someone noticed at the last minute there was no LWB coupe.  Chrysler, Lincoln, Cadillac surely had one.    Then they settled on the Century. 

 

 

 

       At the risk of pursuing this debate beyond all usefulness . . . it wasn't until 1953 that the Roadmaster shared the same wheelbase as the Super.  In the case of both models, sedan wheelbase is 125.5" -- the others 121.5"

       I wonder if the abandonment of the Roadmaster's greater length had something to do with the fact that  long hoods -- hitherto desired -- suggested old-fashioned straight-eights, replaced in 1953 by Buick's new V8.  

[Barney Eaton]

The Stream Boards were a one year only attempt at making the running boards more "modern".   There is no rubber on them just stainless strips on the top and the stainless strip on the side.

They were only offered on the Special and Century and it was a NO COST option. 

Around the same period of time.....Chevy and maybe Pontiac offered a running board that I have little details about.   The outer edge had a gap in it and they may have been more of a taxi, police car option.   The outer edge was much more robust

...something like 3/16 steel.....with a combination of advantages....tougher against high curbs and it would act as a boot scraper in areas without paved roads.   I have a photo somewhere......I'll see if I can find it

[KongaMan]

How much of the front end sheet metal (nose, fenders, etc.) are interchangeable between 39 and 38?

[39BuickEight]

49 minutes ago, KongaMan said:

How much of the front end sheet metal (nose, fenders, etc.) are interchangeable between 39 and 38?

 

None

 

The only sheet metal that I know for sure that interchanges with a ‘39 are ‘39  Pontiac and Olds rear fenders

 

The way the headlight buckets mount force all the 1939 sheet metal to be completely different.

Edited May 16, 2019 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

How about we do a hypothetical build of the "39 setting in a field and guestimate what it would cost to put it into #3 or #2 condition.

Sure we would need to decide if the work would be DIY or pay to get it done.........but just starting with the parts......... anyone want to do an estimate?   Assume you get the car for free and go from there.

* chassis (engine, transmission, rear end, front end, brakes, shocks, wheels and tires

* body (structure repair, paint, trim parts, glass)

* interior  (upholstery, floor covering, instruments, steering column, wheel, window trim and door handles

* wiring

* trunk

Edited May 17, 2019 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

If a person actually had to source all the parts this car is missing and pay for labor, easily $100,000 if someone wants it done in less than 3 years.  I wouldn't be surprised at $200,000.  I've restored a 1939 from a car in similar condition myself, although mine was complete.  I did all the work but the painting, so I had no labor expense, and I was lucky to find a wrecked donor with a new interior and new wheels/tires.

 

This car is really a complete mess.

 

Engine/mechanical $10,000 + labor (could be less if engine isn't rebuilt, includes rebuilding accessories)

interior $10,000 + labor

body/paint (assuming it needs some pan replacement and a lot of massaging) $50,000 and could be $100,000 alone

finishing wheels/tires $1500+

missing parts $10,000+ (trim/gauges/seats/who knows what else)

wiring $1500 + labor

add 33% for all the stuff we cant see

 

The missing parts could be a big problem if on a time schedule.  Many are available, and more expensive if you must have them now.  Many are not easy to find at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buickborn]

Wow -- those are some pretty scary numbers, suggesting that no ordinary car in poor shape is worth restoring.  And the list apparently does not include re-plating, for which costs have risen dramatically in recent years.

 

But surely there are ways to save money -- most notably by acquiring parts through the purchase of a parts car, as opposed to buying parts piecemeal.  And lots of DIY can help as well.  I'm not sure about how common a bill of $50-$100k for body/paint might be, but I'm happy to report that my DIY expense for putting a mess of a '41 Cadillac (which didn't have a straight body panel on it -- not even the roof!) into a beautiful paint job came to less than $1000.00 in materials -- plus, of course, many hands-on hours.

 

And, then, rare is the car that lacks at least a few usable components (transmissions; rear ends, etc.).

 

Still, it's good to be cautious in projecting expenses.  Trouble is, bandying about apocalyptic numbers concerning restoration costs tends to play into the hands of profiteering sellers who think they've hit the lottery just because they have a decent car for sale.

[39BuickEight]

I have $16,000 in my car, but my methods and spending techniques are not the norm.  I took 10 years.  I had no labor expense other than paint.  I replaced half my floors.  I found a totaled donor car for $4500 with new interior and over $3000 in other parts I did not have to plate and/or replace.  I have sold over $5000 in extra parts over the past 8 years that I had 2 of, keeping the better ones for my car (I ended up making the donor car free with extra parts I sold).  I have, on many occasions, bought a part on eBay that was better than the one I had, and then sold the one I had for more.   I have bought already nicely plated parts on eBay way cheaper than I would have been charged to plate what I have.   I have literally nickled and dimed my way to a very nice restored car that is a #2-close to a #3 car now.

 

None of this could happen if I was paying a shop to do the work.  They aren't going to search for parts daily and swap them individually.  They aren't going to meticulously remove an entire interior from a wrecked car and reinstall it in another one.  They are going to buy everything they need new first, used second, and plate the parts that need it. 

 

The value is not in the price of doing it, it's in the enjoyment of the process.  Only 1% of cars are worth restoring in terms of money.  The rest are done for the experience and enjoyment.

 

If I paid a shop to do what I did, it would be well over $100,000. 

 

At least this car is fairly desirable

Edited May 17, 2019 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Buickborn]

Hear, hear!  How refreshing to read an endorsement of this caliber for what the old-car hobby should be all about -- as opposed to the cost-accountant's approach, which cynically dismisses meritorious restorative effort in favor of simply whipping out one's checkbook for something already accomplished.  Reminds me of Oscar Wilde's famous definition of a cynic as someone who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

[B Jake Moran]

A lot depends on what I see tomorrow.   Completeness is important.  I know - I stupidly purchased 2 1930's cars based on emotion - both 1936's, one a Buick Roadmaster, now with Joel Wilson who purchased it as a parts car, and the other a 1936 Chrysler Airflow.  

 

When I tried to get those needed parts, the parts hoarders knew it and the cost was too high.  What would you pay for front and rear seat cores?  $1500 for the Roadmaster. More than I paid for the whole car!  I don't begrudge anyone for making a little money on parts but that's the deal breaker.  

 

The reason a person sees so many passable but non original interiors in cars is cost of materials and workmanship.  I think the common phrase 'it takes a village' is a good idea.  

 

Very few cars getting restored because of the high standards of the trailer queen class.  Blank check restorations and then a normal quite presentable restoration comes in and looks shabby.  

 

 

[old-tank]

12 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

Very few cars getting restored because of the high standards of the trailer queen class.  Blank check restorations and then a normal quite presentable restoration comes in and looks shabby.  

[Thriller]

Every restoration takes time and money.  With enough of one, you don’t need as much of the other.  Skills can be acquired.  So, the example of a $16,000 restoration comes from spending more time on it.

 

In project management, there is a triple constraint of time, resources (or money), and quality.  At best you can get two.  If you want quality in a shorter time frame, it will cost more.  

 

In 2005-6, I put a lot of money into my 1966 Wildcat that some of you here have seen.  Some people had told me it was too rusty to restore.  At that time, $15,000 covered the body and paint, replaced the windshield, replaced the vinyl top, and straightened the bumpers (I don’t recall if a rechrome was involved or not...possibly, but uncertain).  When all was said and done, it received a Bronze award in 2009, just short of a Silver.  It’s far from perfect.  The mechanical work, engine rebuild, etc, was in the range of $10,000.  There was also some interior work.  I now have about $30k into a car the market would likely value at 1/2-2/3 of that cost.  I certainly didn’t do it for the money.

 

When I bought that car, I had way more time than money, but didn’t get much done aside from a few odds and ends.  By the time we got around to restoration work, we had more money than time.  The 1961 Invicta will be a more extensive project (at least the Wildcat ran).  Aside from it, I don’t foresee taking on as extensive a project again.  Well, I’ve still got the body / cosmetic stuff to deal with on the 1929.  

 

All that said, I’d hope one could turn a car like this into a decent runner for far less than the suggested $1-200k.  If not, I fear the death-knell for the hobby is sounding.  

 

It’s also much easier to bring a car a notch up in condition than 2-4 notches.  The better an example you have to start with, the easier it is to take it to the next level.

 

[B Jake Moran]

I was able to stop by and see the car on Saturday.   The seller was just the kind of seller you hope to find - friendly, helpful and no hesitation to show the car.  After meeting at the local Walmart I followed him out to the car.    I always like the back stories on cars.   This one was local - given to him 15 years ago because locals knew he was into old cars.    The problem was he was into 30's Fords, typically Model A's.  The Century was placed in a Morton building where it sat for 15 years.

 

It was pulled out because the Morton building was being set up to use as a Sawmill.  So the Buick has to come out.  Wayne was I estimate 60 years old, and has no interest in the Buick. 

 

This is not hillbilly country for sure.  The family has an estate more or less, very nice home, lots of road equipment.  The car has shredded decades old tires.  Wayne set he could rustle up a set of 15 inch tires to put on it.  It's a roller because it was just placed in the field a little while back.  It's been rained on mercilessly in the past 2 weeks. 

 

It is painted purple, or has faded paint.  I'll try to attach photos of the data plate, but there is not much information there.  Perhaps the paint code and other codes are stamped on the plate and don't come off in the photo. 

[B Jake Moran]

22 hours ago, old-tank said:

Willie

You are correct, that was an unfortunate way to make a point.   I thought about it, and what I did years ago was rebuild motors myself, suspension and so on, but my engine rebuilds were on poorly running engines and I would replace wear components such as rings, bearings and so on.  If I could avoid honing and replacement of pistons, and the heads could just be freshened I would be in for $2000 or less.  I would come out of it with a well running motor that should be able to go another 40,000 miles, maybe not pushed super hard.  Because it would be pulled, a person could freshen up the engine bay, more easily replace hoses and wiring - restoring appearance.

 

What I meant to say had to do with the idea that all engines require a $10,000 rebuild. Maybe, maybe not. 

 

Interiors are similar. I try not bash those guys that try to sell a car with a Non original interior as "interior redone".   On the Cadillac forum I recently saw a 56 Eldorado Seville with 100% correct interior, probably fabric sourced from SMS, and it was stunning.  I think in the case of this Century, a person could redo the interior with non original materials, in a close to original pattern or method, and do it for $2000 or so.  Maybe a tad more.  The key here on a car like this is plan on doing it over 5-6 years, stay on schedule but spread those costs out. 

 

The biggest issue is that body which will require a lot of work. A person can still do most of the work themselves.  But I see some body skim plastic, and rust.  It will require some welding, which I can not do.  I would say, guesstimate, $3000 in metal prep work, a lot of sanding and prepping by the restorer-owner.  You can buy superior painting equipment from what they had years ago - I am talking about HVLP paint guns.  But I have no clue how to mix or add or actually spray. 

 

A person could practice that on the frame, and areas of the body not seen so that by the time they build up some confidence, you could spray it in a manner which was probably superior to 1939.  Then sand, repaint, sand, clear coat.  I have no idea what paint costs but anecdotally I have an idea it's a lot. 

 

Like others, if you do most of the mechanical, etc and hand it over to a body shape, they will want ? $20,000 to $30,000 to fix, shape, prime and paint. 

 

If a person does it themselves, it is unlikely it will match what a person pays to have it done.  That is my point which is erroneously stated as a typical trailer queen comment. 

[B Jake Moran]

By the way, I am not anti hot rod, and this 39 Century coupe with those big fat fenders would make a phenomenal Hot Rod.  These coupes make some of the neatest rods because the shape of the rears with that sloping trunk down.   If I could figure out how to do it, which is probably not possible, I would pull that rare rear end and sell it to someone who needed it, ditto any other mechanical parts not to be reused.   The body could be kept stock in appearance, no need to do anything. Keep the interior simple and tasteful, but put a 70's posi rear end in it, open driveshaft, and I would think a Nailhead would do it. 

[B Jake Moran]

[B Jake Moran]

[B Jake Moran]

[B Jake Moran]

[B Jake Moran]

[B Jake Moran]