A circa 1916 car to identify

[Don Wiss]

My brother sent me pictures of another car. The pictures are dated Winter 1916. My grandfather is in one picture, and his fiance is in the other. He would have been a little over 20 at the time. He would have had a car for a few years by 1916. His father had a car from about 1900. His mother's first car was bought at the end of 1909. (We know when the chauffeur was hired. I periodically get together with his granddaughter.)

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Don Wiss
added Winter, fine tuned his age (see edit history)

[mercer09]

Pierce?

[franklinman]

More like Peerless, I would say about 1912-13.

[Bob McAnlis]

Based on the type of core in the radiator, I agree it is a Peerless.

as franklinman suggests.

[jeff_a]

I would guess 1910 or 1911 Peerless, maybe a Model 31 or 32. This was an extravagantly expensive motor car. Did your family own railroads or a major bank?

[Don Wiss]

12 minutes ago, Bob McAnlis said:

Based on the type of core in the radiator, I agree it is a Peerless.

as franklinman suggests.

 

Also the fenders. Clearly a Peerless. It could be a limousine. If so, then they are in front of his mother's car. Maybe he didn't own a car until after he returned from the war. He was living in Newark, NJ, so presumably one could get around in those days without owning a car. And he could use his mom's chauffeur.

 

Thanks for the lead. I will see if I can pin down the model. Though with no side view, it won't be easy.

 

 

[Don Wiss]

23 minutes ago, jeff_a said:

I would guess 1910 or 1911 Peerless, maybe a Model 31 or 32. This was an extravagantly expensive motor car. Did your family own railroads or a major bank?

 

My great-grandfather owned Wiss scissors. He took the company from a shop to a company with some 500 employees by the time of these pictures. Having these dates and models will help. And I will see if this model existed at the end of 1909, making it my great-grandmother's first car.

 

My great-grandfather and his younger brother were very much into cars from early on. (They were active in the NJ Automobile Club.) The factory machinery was powered by steam engines. The early cars would not have intimidated them at all. And they had the money.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Don Wiss
clarified relationship (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

This one is from the same era on the lawn at Pebble Beach a few years ago. Bob 

[jeff_a]

---- Good photo, Bob. A 1913 Mod. 48-Six that took Best In Class, Class A, 2010. Described as a Kimball-bodied Town Car.

---- I've seen this car in person. It is a 1911 raceabout, photo possibly taken at Larz Anderson Museum, car appeared at the 1954 Glidden Tour:

 

photo for sale on autolit.com

Edited February 6, 2019 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Don Wiss]

20 minutes ago, jeff_a said:

1913 Mod. 48-Six -- took Best In Class, Class A, 2010. Described as a Kimball-bodied Town Car. 

The sidelights match up better with: https://scripophily.net/peli19.html

 

I'd love to see the inside of that brochure. I went after 1909, as we know my great-grandmother's first car was purchased at the end of 1909.

 

[jeff_a]

Here is Jack Tallman's old 1910 Peerless Model 27 Landaulet. Bill Donze, Mr. Melton, & Mr. H. Austin Clark also owned it. Now in the Key Museum.

Brewster body....1 of about 45 known Peerless coachbuilders.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Don Wiss]

I checked -- or tried to check -- just what 1909 Peerless catalogs are in the AACA Library. My desire is the 1909 Peerless Limousine brochure I noted above. I didn't find that, but this:

 

http://www.aacalibrarycatalog.org/opac/search.msp?db=LRC+Catalog.bib&style=basic&query=peerless+1909+limousine&iname=title&type=title&key=(Peerless+motor+cars+1909+_2F)

 

It states it has been digitized. But where do I find it?

 

Checking my local (NYC) library I find (which may be the same as the link above):

 

3-TOP p.v. 48, No. 3
Peerless Motor Cars
1909
Models: Model 19 4-cylinder 30 H.P. Seven-Passenger Touring Car [$4475 with top $4475]; Model 25 6-cylinder 50 H.P. Seven-Passenger Touring Car [$6000 with top $6175]; Model 19 4-cylinder 30 H.P. Close Coupled Touring Car [$4300]; Model 19 4-cylinder 30 H.P. Roadster [$4300]; Model 19 4-cylinder 30 H.P. Limousine [$5500]; Model 19 4-cylinder 30 H.P. Landaulet [$5800]; Model 25 6-cylinder 50 H.P. Roadster [$6000]; Model 25 6-cylinder 50 H.P. Limousine [$7000]; Model 25 6-cylinder 50 H.P. Landaulet [$7300]
The Peerless Motor Car Company, Quincy & 93rd Street, Cleveland, Ohio - 220 West 41st Street, New York, New York
32 p.; illustrations

 

The car is limousine, not a landaulet. This leaves us with two prices for this car.

[Don Wiss]

The 1909 limousine catalog https://scripophily.net/peli19.html was issued in 1908. Could the 1910 models have been available at the end of 1909? We all know that in later years the models came out in the Fall of the prior year. Were they doing that back in 1909?

 

[1912Staver]

2 hours ago, Don Wiss said:

 

My great-grandfather owned Wiss scissors. He took the company from a shop to a company with some 500 employees by the time of these pictures. Having these dates and models will help. And I will see if this model existed at the end of 1909, making it my great-grandmother's first car.

 

My great-grandfather and his younger brother were very much into cars from early on. (They were active in the NJ Automobile Club.) The factory machinery was powered by steam engines. The early cars would not have intimidated them at all. And they had the money.

 

The same company that produces the Wiss sheet metal shears {snips} that are very popular with vintage car restorers ?  A great product. Is the family still involved with the business ?

  Greg in Canada.. I have owned at least a half dozen pairs { RH. and LH } of those snips over the years

[Don Wiss]

24 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

The same company that produces the Wiss sheet metal shears {snips} that are very popular with vintage car restorers ?  A great product. Is the family still involved with the business ? 

 

Hi Greg,

Yes, but alas, the company was sold in 1976. Not having children, my legacy to the world will be my website on the company:

http://jwissandsons.com/

 

There is a family section on the site. Some of the car pictures are already there. Eventually all will be. There are so many pictures around, I will be working on scanning and putting them up for years to come. We only have my grandparents' pictures, but I know where his brother's pictures are, and where his sister's and my great-grandparents' pictures are (those being together).

 

The pictures of my great-grandfather's younger brother are someplace in California. That stash would include the pictures in this book:

http://jwissandsons.com/family/during-my-lifetime/w031.htm

 

The page I jumped to discusses my great-grandfather's brother's early cars. The first being a 1902 Knox, then two Packards. Move ahead a couple pages and the car pictures start. There were lots of road trips, including a cross country trip in 1912. By that time my great-grandfather's younger brother had died, so it was his widow that made the trip. The book writer was her daughter. And she ended up marrying the chauffeur.

 

[1912Staver]

That's a great site ! Thanks for the link. You are doing a fine job of documenting your family's history / company . I had no idea Wiss had such a broad product line and long history.

 

Greg

Edited February 7, 2019 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Don Wiss]

I studied the roof line, and determined that the car is the 1910 model of the Peerless limousines. Then just now I stumbled on another picture of the car:

 

 

The chauffeur is leaning on the wall to the left. Now I can't be sure that this is my great-grandparent's car in the picture, but the picture, taken on April 28, 1911, is in front of our office building. Perhaps my great-grandfather was working in our realty company's office, which was in the building. Or my great-grandmother was shopping in our jewelry store, also in the building.

 

The full picture is the fourth picture here: http://jwissandsons.com/wiss-building/Newark-Public-Library-pictures.htm

 

[lump]

Don Wiss, 

My father was a union sheet metal worker here in Dayton, Ohio, from the 1950's until his death in 1978. In about 1976 I followed his footsteps into the same trade. When I got selected for an apprenticeship, he gave me a tool box full of extra sheet metal tools he had acquired over the years. He gave me a careful discussion on each tool. When we got to tin snips ("aviation" snips and "bulldog" snips), he made it clear that only WISS brand aviation snips were any good, and to avoid all other brands. He also gave me a pair of WISS "bulldogs." I got out of the trade a few years after his death, but I still have all my old tin-knocker tools. Moreover, every time I find a pair of WISS brand snips at a yard sale, I bring 'em home. They're too good to pass up. Cheers! 

 

[poci1957]

15 hours ago, lump said:

Don Wiss, 

My father was a union sheet metal worker here in Dayton, Ohio, from the 1950's until his death in 1978............he made it clear that only WISS brand aviation snips were any good, and to avoid all other brands. He also gave me a pair of WISS "bulldogs."

 

When I was learning upholstery in the mid-1980s my mentors said the same of Wiss trimmers shears.  I made it a point to buy several all of which I still use, it is an honor to have a Wiss family member join us here on the site, Todd C

Edited February 11, 2019 by poci1957 (see edit history)

[trimacar]

When I worked at a carpet yarn DuPont plant in the early 1970's, the scissors used in the plant were Wiss.  I want to say they were called Wiss Dental, but had nothing to do with teeth!

 

I still have a pair,  almost 50 years old and still work great....

[Don Wiss]

2 hours ago, trimacar said:

When I worked at a carpet yarn DuPont plant in the early 1970's, the scissors used in the plant were Wiss.  I want to say they were called Wiss Dental, but had nothing to do with teeth! 

 

Your recollection is probably correct. There was, and still is, the 2DA, called a florist and dental shears. I have no idea why it was called that. Here's a picture of an antique 1DA. It is also called multi-purpose high-leverage.

 

Now, knowing the make of the car, I figured there had to be a Peerless dealer in Newark. And I found that James W. Mason, sold the Peerless at 982 Broad St. That is across and up the street from where our office building was under construction at the time of the car purchase. So I checked Google Streets: 982 Broad St. Sure looks like it was originally a classy auto dealer. I have not yet found any vintage picture.

 

My brother is scanning pictures of my grandparents' 1940s cars. That is in the ""all cars were bought at DeCozen Chrysler" era, so that gives me enough that I can find them in Google Images. Eventually I'll have to make a page showing all the cars.

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Don Wiss
corrected location (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

On 2/10/2019 at 3:10 PM, Don Wiss said:

I studied the roof line, and determined that the car is the 1910 model of the Peerless limousines. Then just now I stumbled on another picture of the car:

 

 

The chauffeur is leaning on the wall to the left. Now I can't be sure that this is my great-grandparent's car in the picture, but the picture, taken on April 28, 1911, is in front of our office building. Perhaps my great-grandfather was working in our realty company's office, which was in the building. Or my great-grandmother was shopping in our jewelry store, also in the building.

 

The full picture is the fourth picture here: http://jwissandsons.com/wiss-building/Newark-Public-Library-pictures.htm

 

 

As you have probably discovered, there are some great Peerless ads from this time period. Here's one:

Edited February 12, 2019 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Gunsmoke]

Great Story and Car, and BTW, my Dad was a mechanic and one time 40-50 years ago he was using a pair of diagonal cutters and said "if you ever buy any, make sure they are WISS". Never forgot that and keep my eye open for old ones.

[trimacar]

Thanks for backing up my memory!  This is a great story, not only that you have ties to an interesting company, but also the fact that you care enough to document some of the car and other history of your family.  Well done!

[Bill Harmatuk]

Love history.

Love stories.

You are so fortunate to be able to gather all the history of your family.

AND, put it all in one place.

I've learned something today.

Yes!! I have several sets of Wiss tin snips. New and antique. The best.

 

Thank You.

Bill Harmatuk

[Don Wiss]

Okay guys. I like to program. With all the scans that my brother sent me. And all the information posted here in my three topics asking for help in identifying cars. I created a section on The Wiss Family Cars. There is a menu listing the 10 cars, with navigation between car pages.

 

In reply to Jeff Brown: Yes, I would like to someday include ads for the cars. But only for the specific model. This constrains new feature expansion.

 

Thanks all for your help and compliments.

 

[trimacar]

Don, I'll tell you a quick Wiss car story, that I actually did not know until today, at least the connection to your family!

 

About 30 years ago, I was working at White Post Restorations.  A transport company pulled into the front lot there, to deliver or pick up a car.  My great friend Greg, who (whom?) was working there also, and owned then,and still owns, a Stoddard Dayton, found out that there was an SD roadster in the truck.  We immediately went to the truck and started crawling around the roadster.  Pictures were taken, grins and all.

 

Part of the rest of the story is that we both got in trouble, our late boss Billy Thompson was very unhappy that we were not only skipping work but also taking pictures in a trailer.  We were fussed at, at length, but we both went away smiling.

 

The rest, of the rest of the story, is I now understand that car was in transport from the Wiss collection, on it's way to a new owner who (whom?) I won't mention but know who (whom?) it was.

 

Small world in the car collecting community!