American Rolls Royce (Ghost, PI & PII)

[Keith Ward]

I like the full flow filter, I plan similar for mine. 

[alsancle]

PII transmission.

[alsancle]

11 minutes ago, Keith Ward said:

I like the full flow filter, I plan similar for mine. 

send me an email and I’ll tell you where to get it. It covers the main line and the auxiliary to the distributor.

[alsancle]

For some reason I didn't have the book "The American Rolls Royce" by Arthur W. Soutter so I got it for Xmas.  The author worked at the Springfield plant from 1920 until it closed in 1936.   Very Interesting.

 

Check out this chart made for the sales department when they started Ghost production in Springfield.

[edinmass]

Interesting to see how short the chassis were on many cars. Porter and Leach probably had a production of zero. There was an actual depression in 1921 that most are not familiar with.

[alsancle]

5 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Interesting to see how short the chassis were on many cars. Porter and Leach probably had a production of zero. There was an actual depression in 1921 that most are not familiar with.

 

Leach didn't interest me because the engine was only 350 cubes.  But I have started a thread on Porter because there was actually a car I didn't know about and I'm very disappointed in myself.

 

A RR pr piece,  but the takeaway is the RR was the nads.

[alsancle]

Mr Soutter worked for Rolls of American from the very beginning in 1920 until the factory was finally closed down in 1936.   His book as some really interesting first person accounts.  

 

This one in particular with regard to the top speed of the Phantom I is interesting which I will paraphrase:

 

The original owner of P1 Brewster Speedster 158SR (below) was Herbert Farrell of Nashville Tennessee.   He bought the car from the Cincinnati branch of RR with the understanding that the car would do "better than" 85mph.  He was unable to get the car to go that fast.   Mr Soutter says that at 83 mph the valves start to bounce on the PI and the ability to attain a speed in access of that is limited.   Mr Soutter and the branch manager visited Mr Farrell at his home and spent the day tuning the car,  lowering the top and windshield and were able to coax 87 mph out of the car on a single run. 

 

As an aside,  Mr Farrell's father in law had recently sold his small coffee business "Maxwell House"  to General Foods for 23 million dollars.

 

BTW,   158SR sold for almost 2 million dollars at Gooding Amelia in 2013.

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by alsancle (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Does anyone here know of a source for the fluted headlamp lens proper for the drum headlamps shown above?

Al

[alsancle]

35 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Does anyone here know of a source for the fluted headlamp lens proper for the drum headlamps shown above?

Al

 

Are they the same as Locomobile?  Good news if they are on Phantom I RR as well as Loco as it makes the chances of finding one 10 times better.

 

I would check the RR suppliers.

[Grimy]

On 12/26/2021 at 6:05 PM, alsancle said:

For some reason I didn't have the book "The American Rolls Royce" by Arthur W. Soutter so I got it for Xmas.  The author worked at the Springfield plant from 1920 until it closed in 1936.   Very Interesting.

 

Check out this chart made for the sales department when they started Ghost production in Springfield.

Note that Duesenberg is misspelled.

 

The Pierce-Arrow series 51 (525 cid) in the chart is a 1919-1920 model that was discontinued for 1921, when only the former 38/31 engine (415 cid) was available, albeit with a single cylinder block vs. paired jugs previously, and the only wheelbase was 138.

[alsfarms]

You are reading my mind.  Yes, the drum Bausch and Lomb headlamps are the same.  I can not confirm "exactly" the same, but the lenses should be interchangeable.  Do the Derby and Springfield RR cars use the same drum headlamps?  I have considered having some made but would sooner not if I can find a pair for the Locomobile. Grimy, thanks for your clarification!

Al

[Grimy]

Those drum headlights appear to be AGA [brand], often found as bracketed headlights on Pierce-Arrow cars.  1921-1928 P-As used B&L fluted headlight lenses in varying diameters, see following from my files:

PIERCE LENSES Bausch & Lomb

• 1921 model 32 9 1/4"

 

• 1922-25 33  9-1/4” " "

 

• 1924-25 80 8 3/8"
  
  

• 1926 33 9 1/4" STAR
  
  

• 1926-27 80 8 3/8" STAR
  
  

• 1927-28 36 9 1/4" STAR
  
  

• 1928 81 8 1/8" STAR
  
  ALL P-A CARS 1926-thru--1928 used B & L STAR lenses---that have a flat center panel --and the "star" logo at the bottom

• Bracket headlamps observed on Series 81:  9 ¼” B&L STAR

• Bracket headlamps observed on Series 36:  11” B&L STAR

I don't know the diameters of Cadillac B&L lenses.

 

 

[alsfarms]

Hello Grimy,

Your clarification is good.  I have seen more than a few of the smaller diameter B&L lenses.  From your clarification, the Model 36 P-A, with bracket headlamps would have the same lens size as the Locomobile 48, 11".  Now if I can just find a pair!

Al

[Grimy]

3 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Grimy,

Your clarification is good.  I have seen more than a few of the smaller diameter B&L lenses.  From your clarification, the Model 36 P-A, with bracket headlamps would have the same lens size as the Locomobile 48, 11".  Now if I can just find a pair!

Al

Al, sometimes with eBay sellers who have have a bezel and a lens, we have to ask sellers to remove lens from bezel, look for marks PLUS measure.  Tony W recently bought a bezel and 9-1/4 lens just for the lens but the bezel turned out to be an AGA unit needed by Don B.

[BobinVirginia]

37 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Those drum headlights appear to be AGA [brand], often found as bracketed headlights on Pierce-Arrow cars.  1921-1928 P-As used B&L fluted headlight lenses in varying diameters, see following from my files:

PIERCE LENSES Bausch & Lomb
 

 

• 1921 model 32 9 1/4"

   

 

 

• 1922-25 33  9-1/4” " "

   

 

 

• 1924-25 80 8 3/8"
   

   

• 1926 33 9 1/4" STAR
   

   

• 1926-27 80 8 3/8" STAR
   

   

• 1927-28 36 9 1/4" STAR
   

   

• 1928 81 8 1/8" STAR
  
  ALL P-A CARS 1926-thru--1928 used B & L STAR lenses---that have a flat center panel --and the "star" logo at the bottom

   

• Bracket headlamps observed on Series 81:  9 ¼” B&L STAR

   

• Bracket headlamps observed on Series 36:  11” B&L STAR

   

 

I don't know the diameters of Cadillac B&L lenses.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say. You just beat me to it! 🤣😂

 

It seems every time I log in and read threads I learn something! 

[Keith Ward]

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit but does anybody know Lloyd Reddington? He once owned my car 215AMS and I was wondering if he is contactable to see if he still has any historic details of the car, because all I know about it is that it was delivered to Fredrick William Cowan in Toronto in 1933 and at some unknown point in time it was bought by Col Philip Bushby who owned it for many years (of neglect) before Lloyd Reddington bought it.

[alsancle]

11 minutes ago, Keith Ward said:

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit but does anybody know Lloyd Reddington? He once owned my car 215AMS and I was wondering if he is contactable to see if he still has any historic details of the car, because all I know about it is that it was delivered to Fredrick William Cowan in Toronto in 1933 and at some unknown point in time it was bought by Col Philip Bushby who owned it for many years (of neglect) before Lloyd Reddington bought it.

Keith, when I can get in front of a computer and not on my phone I’ll see if I can find if they are in the member list for the RROC.

[JV Puleo]

On 1/1/2022 at 3:33 PM, alsfarms said:

You are reading my mind.  Yes, the drum Bausch and Lomb headlamps are the same.  I can not confirm "exactly" the same, but the lenses should be interchangeable.  Do the Derby and Springfield RR cars use the same drum headlamps?  I have considered having some made but would sooner not if I can find a pair for the Locomobile. Grimy, thanks for your clarification!

Al

Derby and Springfield cars did not use the same lights. The American cars used lights purchased in the US from US companies.

Edited January 2, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, Keith Ward said:

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit but does anybody know Lloyd Reddington? He once owned my car 215AMS and I was wondering if he is contactable to see if he still has any historic details of the car, because all I know about it is that it was delivered to Fredrick William Cowan in Toronto in 1933 and at some unknown point in time it was bought by Col Philip Bushby who owned it for many years (of neglect) before Lloyd Reddington bought it.

Keith,  no current members with last name Reddington.   Have you requested the history report from the RROC?  There is usually some good stuff in there, assuming the owners were members of the club.

[Keith Ward]

Thanks Al, much appreciated, the car was taken to a few rallies and did appear in a tiny picture in the Flying Lady many years ago so they might have something.

 

K

[alsfarms]

When it comes to early large drum headlights, what does AGA stand for?

Al

[Grimy]

Google results:

https://books.google.com/books?id=hZwSAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA102&lpg=RA1-PA102&dq="AGA"+headlights&source=bl&ots=2H0qr9WnYa&sig=ACfU3U0dZjYQ70AFX1XVoFO-RAXp2tWOaQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwih1uLIyZT1AhWSKs0KHfC9D3AQ6AF6BAgiEAM#v=onepage&q="AGA" headlights&f=false

 

http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=310138474026&t=1370363717000&category=33710&seller=highiqinny&excSoj=1&excTrk=1&lsite=100&ittenable=true&domain=ebay.com&descgauge=1&cspheader=1&oneClk=2&secureDesc=0&oversion=a4b2424b

[alsancle]

Good find George.   This discussion should probably go in its own thread.

 

[alsancle]

On 7/30/2017 at 9:27 PM, JV Puleo said:

The AMS and AJS series cars. Most of the LHD cars probably came to the US but they were also sold in a number of countries where driving on the right was the norm. This is 220AMS, photographed in 1951. This is the second body on the chassis. The car is still around and its history well known. About 40 years ago I had a call one evening. The voice on the other end of the line asked  "are you the guy that fixes Rolls Royces?" "yes" I said. He replied "I have one in my garage and I'd like to get it going."

 

He was the nephew of the man who took this photo and had inherited the car when his uncle died. I don't think he'd driven it because the towing company that delivered it had wrapped a chain around the tie rod and bent it like a pretzel. I had it brought to my garage where I repaired the gas tank (it was perforated with tiny holes) and made a new tie rod as well as getting it running. In returning it to the owner, I had my one and only experience with the dreaded "axle tramp" and very nearly leveled a little neighborhood bar. In part payment for the work, I got the uncle's library of RR and other car books - all of which I still have, including the original manual for this car. Some time later is was offered to me but I passed (not having anywhere near enough money and preferring earlier cars in any case). It was purchased by my former employer and, if I remember correctly, auctioned a few years ago after he died.

 

 

Joe,

 

Bonhams is selling this car at Amelia.

 

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27329/lot/272/1933-rolls-royce-phantom-ii-sedanca-de-ville-coachwork-by-gurney-nutting-chassis-no-220ams-engine-no-u65j/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alsancle]

Besides 220AMS above,  Bonhams is selling a bunch of prewar RR.   Here is a link to the Rolls lots:

 

https://www.bonhams.com/live_auctions/27329/?activeFilter=lotValueFilter&sortFilter=value_desc&query=rolls+royce

[JV Puleo]

How about that...I actually "discovered" it...but wasn't interested in a PII so when Alden Handy's nephew offered ti to me I passed and told Ted about it. Maybe I could have afforded it, I can't remember what he wanted but I already had my PI, which I liked a lot better even if it needed a ton more work. I wonder if the new owner would like to pay a "Bonhams" price for the original manual?

[alsancle]

3 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

How about that...I actually "discovered" it...but wasn't interested in a PII so when Alden Handy's nephew offered ti to me I passed and told Ted about it. Maybe I could have afforded it, I can't remember what he wanted but I already had my PI, which I liked a lot better even if it needed a ton more work. I wonder if the new owner would like to pay a "Bonhams" price for the original manual?

 

It doesn't look like it has changed a lick since then.  Even looks like the same tires from your picture.

[alsancle]

Here is another one from Bonhams:

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27329/lot/252/1931-rolls-royce-phantom-ii-newport-town-carcoachwork-by-brewsterchassis-no-264ajsengine-no-e45b-body-no-7384/

 

1931 Rolls-Royce Phantom II Newport Town Car
Coachwork by Brewster
Chassis no. 264AJS
Engine no. E45B
Body no. 7384

7,668cc OHV Inline 6-Cylinder Engine
Single Carburetor
120bhp
4-Speed Manual Transmission
Leaf Spring Suspension with Single-Shot Chassis Lubrication
4-Wheel Servo-Assisted Drum Brakes

*Handsome and distinguished design
*One of only 18 PII variants produced
*Offered from long-term ownership
*Retained primarily in East-Coast collections in New York, Virginia and Florida
*Well maintained by marque experts and perfect for the tour circuit

THE AMERICAN-DELIVERY PHANTOM II

With the conclusion of Phantom I production in 1931, Rolls-Royce discontinued its decade-long stint of building cars for the American market at Springfield, Massachusetts. Instead, US-market chassis were built at Derby in two series, AJS and AMS, with left-hand-drive, adjustments to the suspension, and 20-inch wheels. Upon arrival Stateside, they were fitted with coachwork, most frequently built by Brewster & Company, which remained under the control of Rolls-Royce importer and dealer J.S. Inskip.

Brewster continued to provide an impressive slate of attractively designed, well-proportioned and charmingly named styles for selection by buyers. Among their offerings was the Newport, a particularly handsome formal town car, distinguished by its angled cowl molding and crisp tailored lines. Records indicate that 18 Phantom II chassis were outfitted with Newport coachwork. The survivors continue to reflect the same elegant bearing they had when new.

THE MOTORCAR OFFERED

Despite having likely been built in 1931, chassis 264AJS was, like many of its ilk, delayed in sale due to the Great Depression. On May 24, 1933, the Rolls-Royce was finally delivered to Mrs. M.L. Woodhouse. According to the late owner's family, the car was only gently and infrequently used over the years, due in part to Mrs. Woodhouse owning other automobiles as well as the gas rationing of World War II. It would go on to change hands several times over the next four decades, as noted in the Rolls-Royce Foundation's archives, copies of which are available on file.The car remained in collections on the East Coast, in New York, Virginia, and Florida. At some point early in its history the chauffeur's roof was fixed in place, but the coachwork remained otherwise unmodified.

In 1977, chassis 264AJS was advertised in the Rolls-Royce Owners Club publication, The Flying Lady, by David Domidion of New Jersey, a well-known collector in Rolls-Royce circles. According to the current owner's son, Mr. Domidion acquired the Newport as part of a deal to purchase a Phantom I Playboy. The late owner, an avid Rolls-Royce connoisseur, took note of the advertisement and purchased the Phantom II for his collection. It remained largely tucked away until his retirement in 1997, after which he began restoring it at Jim Killian Historic Auto Restorations. So sympathetic was the work that while the car was returned to its original "open-drive" configuration, the paint on the body is reportedly almost completely original.

The restoration later underwent extensive work by the respected Jeff McDonald of Canby, Oregon. Mr. McDonald is one of the country's foremost specialists in prewar Rolls-Royces. Under his care, he and his team worked to ensure that all elements of the restoration would meet Rolls-Royce factory specifications. The interior was restored and correctly retrimmed in both front and rear, using as a basis an original 1931 promotional photograph found by a friend of the owner in a Paris bookshop. The exhaust was also reinstalled and the chassis properly rewired.

While the restoration work was completed many years ago, it has held up well, with the expected signs of patina from age and use largely visible on the chassis and under the hood. The rear compartment interior remains splendid, with rich cloth upholstery, thick wool overrugs, and fine woodwork, while the driver's compartment shows minor age. Accompanying the car are copies of its build and ownership documentation from the Rolls-Royce Foundation, including, charmingly, a copy of the very 1977 advertisement answered by the late owner!

The Newport is a lovely example of formal coachwork on the Phantom II, and this example, benefitting from many years of loving conservation and good care in a single family, is a superb opportunity to experience its charm first-hand.

 

[Keith Ward]

If 220AMS actually sells for the estimated $60k then it would be worth buying and rebodying with something more desirable. I was once told that of the original 8 Henley Roadsters built, only 12 survive 😉 

[alsancle]

6 minutes ago, Keith Ward said:

If 220AMS actually sells for the estimated $60k then it would be worth buying and rebodying with something more desirable. I was once told that of the original 8 Henley Roadsters built, only 12 survive 😉 

 

It might sell for less.

 

The AMS cars are pretty rare.   Do you remember the chassis upgrades between JS and MS?

[Keith Ward]

If it sells for less than $60k then I will halt the restoration and spending on mine and part it out.

[alsancle]

Too bad about the repaint in the 70s.

 

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27329/lot/278/1929-rolls-royce-phantom-i-avon-touring-sedancoachwork-by-brewster-and-cochassis-no-s320lrengine-no-21209/

 

 

1929 Rolls-Royce Phantom I Avon Touring Sedan
Coachwork by Brewster & Co.
Chassis no. S320LR
Engine no. 21209

7,672cc OHV Inline 6-Cylinder Engine
Single Dual-Throat Carburetor
108bhp at 2,300 rpm
3-Speed Manual Transmission
4-Wheel Leaf Spring Suspension
4-Wheel Drum Brakes

*Featured in the 1978 motion picture The Betsy
*Rarely seen Avon with division
*Well known history
*Accompanied by Rolls-Royce Foundation documentation

THE MOTORCAR OFFERED

Among many other changes as Rolls-Royce replaced the Silver Ghost with the Phantom in the United States was a pronounced shift in the favored coachwork of Rolls-Royce's clients.

The Phantom itself had been developed in response to the luxury market's desire for larger, heavier, more lavishly equipped closed coachwork. One measure of the popularity of these styles – and the new Avon sedan which was introduced by Brewster in 1929 – is that it was Avon sedan coachwork which graced many, if not all, of Rolls-Royce's 1929-1930 trials cars and even the Works Experimental chassis 5MX. Clearly, this was what Rolls-Royce's clients wanted as 1929 turned to 1930.

It is easy to see the Avon sedan's attraction. Its low roofline and slightly raked windshield with body-colored frame blended attractively with the longer Phantom hood and looked particularly good with a padded roof. The wide center posts gave the visual effect of a convertible sedan, but with the snug, secure, protected passenger compartment of a full sedan. It was the height of luxury and comfort without being unduly ostentatious, a combination that was in very desirable as the Great Depression deepened.

Most Phantom I Avon sedans were built for owner-operation but this example is one of few constructed as a Touring Sedan with a rollup division window. In addition it is outfitted with a luggage trunk and dual sidemounted spares with mirrors.

Even better, this Phantom I Avon has movie history. In its case it was in the 1978 film version of Harold Robbins' novel "The Betsy" the story of an ill-fated automobile entrepreneur and his family. Dressed up for the film in peach paint with cream fenders and body beltline accent, its roof is padded in cream leatherette. The interior is beige leather. The six wire wheels are painted in body color and all carry wide whitewall tires.

Rolls-Royce records reveal that it was sold new to Parker Corning of Kenwood, New York (between Syracuse and Utica) on November 14, 1930. It remained with him until August 1946 when it was sold to pioneer collector and historian Keith Marvin of New Canaan, Connecticut. Marvin sold it on New Year's Eve 1950 to Albert O. White of Schenectady, New York. It was later acquired by Ted Leonard. Following Mr. Leonard's passing the car was sold by Bonhams in June of 2009 and later acquired by the current owner.

It appears to have been sympathetically preserved by a succession of owners with the chassis and engine compartment particularly impressive and highly original. The repaint is to movie standards (good enough for the camera) but the car is sound and well preserved. On static display for the past decade, the overall appearance and presentation encourage confidence in its preservation and condition which makes it an excellent candidate for driving, following some degree of mechanical recommissioning, largely as it is and subsequent restoration with, perhaps, a less flamboyant color palette. As one of the few touring sedan with division window versions of the popular Brewster Avon coachwork it will be a valued participant at concours and Rolls-Royce events.

 

[alsancle]

5 minutes ago, Keith Ward said:

If it sells for less than $60k then I will halt the restoration and spending on mine and part it out.

 

It should bring 100k plus,   but this statement in the description causes problems when selling a RR:

 

"On static display for the last decade, mechanical recommissioning is recommended prior to active enjoyment and heading out for an evening at the opera."

[alsancle]

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27329/lot/242/1931-rolls-royce-phantom-ii-keswick-town-carcoachwork-by-brewster-and-cochassis-no-279ajsengine-no-a25j/

 

 

1931 Rolls-Royce Phantom II Keswick Town Car
Coachwork by Brewster & Co.
Chassis no. 279AJS
Engine no. A25J

7,668cc OHV Inline 6-Cylinder Engine
Single Jet Rolls-Royce Carburetor
120bhp at 3,500rpm
4-Speed Manual Transmission
4-Wheel Servo-Assisted Drum Brakes

*Attractive Brewster Coachwork
*1 of 125 Left hand drive Phantom II built
*Delivered new to Grosse Pointe, Michigan
*Documented by copies of its original build records

THE ROLLS ROYCE PHANTOM II

Reputedly the last model that Henry Royce designed himself, the Phantom II was introduced in 1929 as a successor to the New Phantom (retrospectively Phantom I) with deliveries commencing in September of that year. Unlike its predecessor, which inherited its underpinnings from the preceding 40/50hp model, the Silver Ghost, the Phantom II employed an entirely new chassis laid out along the lines of that of the smaller 20hp Rolls-Royce. Built in two wheelbase lengths - 144" and 150" - this new low-slung frame, with its radiator set well back, enabled coach-builders to body the car in the modern idiom, creating sleeker designs than the upright ones of the past.

The six-cylinder overhead-valve engine too had come in for extensive revision. The PI's cylinder dimensions and basic layout - two blocks of three cylinders, with an aluminum cylinder head common to both blocks - were retained, but the combustion chambers had been redesigned and the 'head was now of the cross-flow type, with inlet and exhaust manifolds on opposite sides. The magneto/coil dual ignition system remained the same as on the PI.

THE MOTORCAR OFFERED

When the Rolls-Royce Springfield works began to shut down its assembly line in 1930, there was still a demand for new chassis to be built, and Rolls-Royce could not simply allow the US market to be forgotten. So, 125 Phantom II chassis were set aside to be converted to left hand drive with center gearshifts. These cars were referred to as the 'AJS' and 'AMS' series cars- the A prefix standing for American.

This particular Phantom II Rolls-Royce is one of those 125 left hand drive examples. It was delivered new as a bare chassis to Springfield (Massachusetts) Rolls-Royce for onward shipment to Brewster coachwork in the spring of 1932 where the buildsheet only listed the body type as 'roadster' and noted that it was fitted with "springs for a Roadster weighing 910 lbs, maximum seating 4." There are no further details as to whether or not this lightweight Roadster (possibly a Henley) body ever graced the chassis, but the listing on its Schoellkopf card indicates it to have always been with the body it wears today, a Keswick open-drive Town Car, #7350.

The first listed was owner Louis Mendelssohn of Grosse Pointe, Michigan, who acquired the car new on June 3, 1932. Mendelssohn, a successful architect and later executive at the Fisher Body Company, would park his new Rolls at his massive, three-year old, stately mansion at 1000 Lake Shore Rd in Grosse Pointe (William C. Ford would later inhabit the property). Already in his late 70s when he acquired the car, he would pass away in 1935, but the later pre-WWII history of the car is not recorded.

In late December 1951, the car is noted to have been with Michael Vital of Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. The Rolls would remain in the Keystone state for the next half century, first with S. Howard Brown of Grantsville who acquired the car in March of 1953, and next with Thomas C. Lewis of Bucks County who purchased it in 1961 and would retain the Rolls into the next century. Lewis noted that 279AJS had about 64,000 miles on the clock when he first restored it in 1962 and about 80,000 miles when he restored it again in 1990. In 2002, Lewis's long tenure of ownership ended with the Rolls heading West to join the collection of Dr. Robert Zaitlin of Los Angeles, California.

Purchased by the current owner about 14 years ago, it has been on static display since acquisition. Retaining its now 32-year-old restoration, it shows nicely but mechanical recommissioning it recommended prior to active use.

 

[Keith Ward]

I think the cream P1 is fairly priced because it has whitewalls, like 220AMS, any pre-war Rolls-Royce suffering the indignation of being fitted with 1940s style whitewalls should be devalued by 80% 😉 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Keith Ward (see edit history)

[Keith Ward]

Al, I'm not sure of the developments between the JS and MS chassis, there is very little documentation of the A' series and quite a bit of what I have seen is incorrect, obviously written by people who have never really examined them. One thing that I am sure of though is that none of them had synchromesh on any gears contrary to this ill-informed Gooding & Co description https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1933-rolls-royce-phantom-ii-henley-roadster?fbclid=IwAR1eTEOSNPX486crM0jHyES8yCRhqJA2RVbiTTMJ_dPGI2JH6pZac3LIXB0 

[JV Puleo]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

Too bad about the repaint in the 70s.

 

 

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27329/lot/278/1929-rolls-royce-phantom-i-avon-touring-sedancoachwork-by-brewster-and-cochassis-no-s320lrengine-no-21209/

 

 

1929 Rolls-Royce Phantom I Avon Touring Sedan
Coachwork by Brewster & Co.
Chassis no. S320LR
Engine no. 21209

7,672cc OHV Inline 6-Cylinder Engine
Single Dual-Throat Carburetor
108bhp at 2,300 rpm
3-Speed Manual Transmission
4-Wheel Leaf Spring Suspension
4-Wheel Drum Brakes

*Featured in the 1978 motion picture The Betsy
*Rarely seen Avon with division
*Well known history
*Accompanied by Rolls-Royce Foundation documentation

THE MOTORCAR OFFERED

Among many other changes as Rolls-Royce replaced the Silver Ghost with the Phantom in the United States was a pronounced shift in the favored coachwork of Rolls-Royce's clients.

The Phantom itself had been developed in response to the luxury market's desire for larger, heavier, more lavishly equipped closed coachwork. One measure of the popularity of these styles – and the new Avon sedan which was introduced by Brewster in 1929 – is that it was Avon sedan coachwork which graced many, if not all, of Rolls-Royce's 1929-1930 trials cars and even the Works Experimental chassis 5MX. Clearly, this was what Rolls-Royce's clients wanted as 1929 turned to 1930.

It is easy to see the Avon sedan's attraction. Its low roofline and slightly raked windshield with body-colored frame blended attractively with the longer Phantom hood and looked particularly good with a padded roof. The wide center posts gave the visual effect of a convertible sedan, but with the snug, secure, protected passenger compartment of a full sedan. It was the height of luxury and comfort without being unduly ostentatious, a combination that was in very desirable as the Great Depression deepened.

Most Phantom I Avon sedans were built for owner-operation but this example is one of few constructed as a Touring Sedan with a rollup division window. In addition it is outfitted with a luggage trunk and dual sidemounted spares with mirrors.

Even better, this Phantom I Avon has movie history. In its case it was in the 1978 film version of Harold Robbins' novel "The Betsy" the story of an ill-fated automobile entrepreneur and his family. Dressed up for the film in peach paint with cream fenders and body beltline accent, its roof is padded in cream leatherette. The interior is beige leather. The six wire wheels are painted in body color and all carry wide whitewall tires.

Rolls-Royce records reveal that it was sold new to Parker Corning of Kenwood, New York (between Syracuse and Utica) on November 14, 1930. It remained with him until August 1946 when it was sold to pioneer collector and historian Keith Marvin of New Canaan, Connecticut. Marvin sold it on New Year's Eve 1950 to Albert O. White of Schenectady, New York. It was later acquired by Ted Leonard. Following Mr. Leonard's passing the car was sold by Bonhams in June of 2009 and later acquired by the current owner.

It appears to have been sympathetically preserved by a succession of owners with the chassis and engine compartment particularly impressive and highly original. The repaint is to movie standards (good enough for the camera) but the car is sound and well preserved. On static display for the past decade, the overall appearance and presentation encourage confidence in its preservation and condition which makes it an excellent candidate for driving, following some degree of mechanical recommissioning, largely as it is and subsequent restoration with, perhaps, a less flamboyant color palette. As one of the few touring sedan with division window versions of the popular Brewster Avon coachwork it will be a valued participant at concours and Rolls-Royce events.

 

The paint job is by no means the most serious thing wrong about that car although I see someone has painted the wheels. When Ted had it he had them vacuum plated. It also had a gold velour interior (we called it "bordello yellow")...hopefully that has been replaced as well. Anyone who buys that car will be in for a world of expense if they intend to do any more than trailer it around...

 

I could say a lot more, but won't on an open forum.

 

 

[alsancle]

19 hours ago, Keith Ward said:

If it sells for less than $60k then I will halt the restoration and spending on mine and part it out.

It may be a better starting point than your Park Ward but your car is 3 times better looking in my opinion.  And in the car collector world looks matter.

[alsancle]

The maroon Newport town car seems to have lost its Hobson Telegauge (Think King Sealey).   Not sure if this is a plus or a minus.  On one hand you know how much gas you have.  On the other you lost an original instrument.

 

[John_Mereness]

I would have considered the Avon (what I started out looking for in a PI) the last time it came up (2009), but accidentally missed it - now as much as I would like to have an Avon in the garage, I probably will find another way to beat myself senseless.  

 

And while my PI Dover ("New in the PII style) was exceptionally confortable and drivable as to seating position (actually one of the nicest 30's cars I have ever driven) even given it's divider window, I am not sure I would want the divider in an Avon. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by John_Mereness (see edit history)