John_Mereness Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) A rare/elusive photo of my former car - with the trunk on it for the only day I had the trunk on it (a "NOS" trunk that I should have buffed the paint out on and not let it turn into a multi month restoration project). Edited March 23, 2022 by John_Mereness (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 23 hours ago, alsancle said: The reproduction York sold for 360K at Bonhams Amelia back in 2016. https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23133/lot/193/ ...It was also in the $400K range in the last year before the current offerring in the 5's. Then there's this in Hemmings: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 33 minutes ago, prewarnut said: ...It was also in the $400K range in the last year before the current offerring in the 5's. Then there's this in Hemmings: https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/rolls-royce/phantom-i-springfield/2543775.html 1928 Rolls Royce Piccadilly Roadster. S217FP Springfield Iron Head. Newer Doug Chalmers body on original Piccadilly chassis that was restored 25 years ago. 99% complete, needs: re-restoration as appropriate, fenders and other parts restoration, upholstery, paint, etc. $115,000. John 707-495-4257 Price: $100,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) On 3/23/2022 at 8:14 PM, alsancle said: https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/rolls-royce/phantom-i-springfield/2543775.html 1928 Rolls Royce Piccadilly Roadster. S217FP Springfield Iron Head. Newer Doug Chalmers body on original Piccadilly chassis that was restored 25 years ago. 99% complete, needs: re-restoration as appropriate, fenders and other parts restoration, upholstery, paint, etc. $115,000. John 707-495-4257 Price: $100,000 Actually, a pretty good deal other than I bet it is going to be 50K for the missing sheet metal to be made and sounds like no patterns (then another 100K to do a driver level car - which is about all I would try to accomplish as it still is a rebodied car when all said and done). Lots of plusses though with frame restoration and very nice body style matched to quality fabrication. So all in 250K ??? Edited April 6, 2022 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, John_Mereness said: Actually, a pretty good deal other I bet it is going to be 50K for the missing shet metal to be made and sounds like no patterns (then another 100K to do a driver level car - which is about all I would try to accomplish as it still is a rebodied car when all said and done). Lots of plusses though with frame restoration and very nice body style matched to quality fabrication. So all in 250K ??? I think the original chassis card indicating the piccadily roadster is important. But still, what is the going rate for no-questions one vs a reproduction of the original body one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 3, 2022 Author Share Posted April 3, 2022 https://www.ebay.com/itm/1929-Rolls-Royce-Springfield-Phantom-I-/144486189127? This is a beautiful 1929 Rolls-Royce Springfield Phantom I All Weather Cabriolet that was bodied by Locke and Company and then later updated by Rolleston. This Town Car was specially ordered new for one of the wealthiest families in America, the Fahnestocks of the Oppenheimer financial empire. Ordered on the heels of the Great Depression, this Rolls-Royce cost $20,000 in 1929. Today, the Town Car presents itself beautifully as an older restoration that can be used for concours or touring. S195FR has been registered with the RROC for the past 70 years!S195FR drives very well and would be a delight for touring. HISTORY: S195FR comes with a wonderful file history spanning its entire life. William Fahnestock ordered it from his office at 2 Wall Street and their Manhattan home at 457 Fifth Ave. According to the extensive correspondence between the Fahnestocks and Rolls-Royce of America, S195FR was custom ordered to be a special long wheelbase of 150 inches. This was because S195FR was replacing their 1914 Silver Ghost (37CD), which had its 151 inch wheelbase. 37CD was used as a trade in while specifying that they could continue enjoying it until S195FR was delivered. Ultimately, Rolls-Royce built S195FR as a special order 148 inch wheelbase (according to letters the front axle was moved back 1.5 inches), which is likely a unique specification. In 1927, the Fahnestocks built what is said to be the last of the great Newport mansions, the Charles A. Platt designed Bois Dore on Narragansett Avenue . S195FR was delivered on July 8, 1929 to their estate in Katonah, NY. The next documented owner was HL Cook from Ohio which submitted his ownership of S195FR to the RROC records on November 3, 1952. Mr. Cook was a significant collector and an active member of the RROC. S195FR appeared in the Flying Lady (FL266) in 1956. By 1963, the Town Car was acquired by Harry TN Graves from Virginia. Mr. Graves was also a significant collector of Rolls-Royces and owned it for 30 years. Its last owner, Mr. John B Kinkead of St, Paul, MN acquired it in 1994. RESTORATION: Mr. Kinkead was a noted collector that enjoyed driving and touring his classics. S195FR was no exception. Mr. Kinkead invested about $100,000 in its restoration relying on many of the top names including: Coldwell Engineering, Bill Cooke, Leanard Reece Co in the UK and Odyssey Restorations, Inc in Spring Lake Park, MN. The restoration was from 2003 through 2009 and resulted in the beautiful example we are presenting today. The restoration receipts are included in the history file. S195FR was an early Springfield Phantom I with the smaller grille, manual vertical radiator shutters, drum headlights, dual side mounts and the attractive rounded chromed pipe bumpers. Being a later Springfield Phantom, S195FR was one of the first Phantoms with chrome rather than nickel and is left hand drive. In total, 1,241 Springfield Phantom I's were produced. The body and fenders are believed to be original to the car, but it is said that in the mid 1930s it was sent to Rollston of New York to have the original fenders "skirted" to give it a more updated appearance. EXTERIOR: The livery is an elegant two-tone blue that is in overall nice enough for most concours events but what we refer to as touring quality. The paint presents itself with very nice shine and luster but has many small touched up chips and a few small cracks. The chrome has largely been redone and in very good to excellent condition with some signs of wear. The black vinyl top looks correct and in very nice condition. The original trunk with three fitted suitcases is still original and in beautiful condition. The glass is all excellent having been replaced during the restoration. INTERIOR: The chauffeur's compartment of the interior is black leather that is in very nice condition. It is very correct and soft and supple. The dash is original and in very nice condition. There is carpet that appears to be original in front and it is in nice condition. The rear compartment is in tan wool broadcloth and features a full rear seat with a divider armrest and a full jump seat for one additional passenger. The tan carpeting is also wool and in very nice condition. S195FR was ordered with dual vanities and a cigar lighter and additionally has a Motor Dictograph and a sliding division window. The rear passenger area has two vanities which include a beautiful cigarette case, lighter, pen set, bottles and other items befitting such a car. The wood inside the passenger's compartment is also in nice condition. Overall, the interior has a consistent patina with the rest of the Phantom I. It is very presentable and correct for touring and regional shows. S195FR comes with its original luggage trunk with three suitcases and its canvas cover, all in very nice original condition. DRIVETRAIN: The engine and engine compartment are very impressive and in beautiful condition. The engine was replaced with a correct series SPI 7,668 cc six-cylinder inline engine with its 4-speed transmission (Engine No. 23006). The gauges all appear to work well including the speedometer, oil pressure, temperature, amp meter and fuel gauge. The clock is not working but is correct and original to the car. The drivetrain was completely restored during the restoration including the engine, transmission, suspension, Bjur lubrication, radiator, etc. The chassis is well detailed for a tour car and appropriate for show. The Phantom drives very well with cool operating temperatures and great oil pressure. We have serviced the oil, lubricated the chassis and completely serviced the carburetor. For more details and information please call, text or email Harry Clark at 1.602.245.7200 or . The Phantom I is available for viewing in our Phoenix showroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted April 3, 2022 Share Posted April 3, 2022 The story is garbled.........they never made a right hand drive Phantom 1 in Springfield.......it was the Ghost run when they went from right to left drive...........in 1924 if my memory serves me. As far as Rollston making those hideous fenders........doubtful, I have seen Rollston cars with updated fenders and the work was most likely done at Inskip with old Brewster employees. The certainly had better taste and skills to do something like that to a nice car...........Interesting history, but poor choice of colors for a town car of that era. Seems like the price isn’t in the insane category..........so that is a plus. Is the V-16 roadster in the background a repop? It doesn’t come to mind from the list of known good cars........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 4, 2022 Share Posted April 4, 2022 (edited) I think 1924 is right. They also went from 12 to 6 volt electrics at the same time, supposedly because owners were finding it difficult to get new 12 volt batteries. The change also required a new center-shift transmission and redesigned exhaust manifolds. Derby introduced the PI in 1925 which was a serious blow to RR of America as they couldn't do it at the same time and had to soldier-on with the Ghost while they tooled up for the new model. My car was S193FR. Edited April 4, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) On 4/3/2022 at 10:28 AM, edinmass said: The story is garbled.........they never made a right hand drive Phantom 1 in Springfield.......it was the Ghost run when they went from right to left drive...........in 1924 if my memory serves me. As far as Rollston making those hideous fenders........doubtful, I have seen Rollston cars with updated fenders and the work was most likely done at Inskip with old Brewster employees. The certainly had better taste and skills to do something like that to a nice car...........Interesting history, but poor choice of colors for a town car of that era. Seems like the price isn’t in the insane category..........so that is a plus. Is the V-16 roadster in the background a repop? It doesn’t come to mind from the list of known good cars........... A little too heavy in the fenders for my taste and do not particularly mind the blues, though I probably would have had a midnight blue or black wheel on it. Also, missing its spring covers. And the rear interior does not look like wool as described. No engine pictures ? Also, a RR car with hood louvers screams to me that it overheated at some point in time or was put to harder than normal service. V-16 sounds to be rebodied or reworked https://classicpromenade.com/for-sale/1930-cadillac-series-452-v16-roadster/. The business is that of Harry Clark and called Classic Promenade. Harry is pretty die-hard CCCA and been around for many years via CCCA Prior to Classic Promenade, I believe Harry was involved in a prefabricated housing business/start-up Harry also has the 1928 RR Ascot Touring from 1970's The Great Gastby movie for sale. Edited April 6, 2022 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 A fellow by the name of Preston Turk said he spotted the 1932 RR PI Dover in Hong Kong via "not too many cars here with Ohio license plates" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 6, 2022 Author Share Posted April 6, 2022 17 minutes ago, John_Mereness said: A fellow by the name of Preston Turk said he spotted the 1932 RR PI Dover in Hong Kong via "not too many cars here with Ohio license plates" Did you sell the car with the plates still on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, alsancle said: Did you sell the car with the plates still on it? Yes, I never registered the year of manufacture plates to the car (I had registered it with historical tags as when I did licensing I still had not found a set of 1932 Ohio plates that I liked the number on). AKA - Glad I did not have to explain that to a Police Officer or Sherrif. Edited April 6, 2022 by John_Mereness (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 (edited) Well, not all things come to a good end via being spotted this week in Hong Kong (and the once awesome Ferrari 330 in front of it was not the better) - for a car that probably only had been wet a dozen times in its life and equally spent its life in half million to million dollar garages with such as heat and A/C. A shame someone would buy something and move it around the glob to put it in harms way ! Edited April 8, 2022 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Ohhh I'm so sorry. I was watching your ad at the time and with the car having a WH, CT connection in 1943....I didn't have the space but certainly wouldn't have kept it this way! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 On 4/7/2022 at 1:38 PM, John_Mereness said: Well, not all things come to a good end via being spotted this week in Hong Kong (and the once awesome Ferrari 330 in front of it was not the better) - for a car that probably only had been wet a dozen times in its life and equally spent its life in half million to million dollar garages with such as heat and A/C. A shame someone would buy something and move it around the glob to put it in harms way ! Very tough to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted April 16, 2022 Share Posted April 16, 2022 On 4/8/2022 at 7:33 PM, Cadillac Fan said: Very tough to see. Apparently, via update it was caught up in customs and owner has not been able to get car. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 11, 2022 Author Share Posted May 11, 2022 NOTE: I posted this in the wrong thread before. Moved here. Now this is interesting. Typical of Bohman and Schwartz coachwork. I believe this is pictured in Rolls Royce in America. https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/rolls-royce/phantom-i-springfield/2569209.html 1931 Rolls-Royce Springfield Phantom I with Bohman & Schwartz coachwork, chassis S443MR. Until recently in the 50+ years ownership of Bob LeCoque, the car has now been recommissioned and is running and driving. Distinctive bodywork by a prominent Pasadena coachbuilder that now needs a full restoration. Lots of images and video available. Glyn Morris +1 847 274 5874 US$39,500. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, alsancle said: NOTE: I posted this in the wrong thread before. Moved here. Now this is interesting. Typical of Bohman and Schwartz coachwork. I believe this is pictured in Rolls Royce in America. https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/rolls-royce/phantom-i-springfield/2569209.html 1931 Rolls-Royce Springfield Phantom I with Bohman & Schwartz coachwork, chassis S443MR. Until recently in the 50+ years ownership of Bob LeCoque, the car has now been recommissioned and is running and driving. Distinctive bodywork by a prominent Pasadena coachbuilder that now needs a full restoration. Lots of images and video available. Glyn Morris +1 847 274 5874 US$39,500. If you've ever wondered how videos of tragedies are filmed and why people are stupid enough to post proof of their incompetence, I present Exhibit A. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 11, 2022 Author Share Posted May 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: If you've ever wondered how videos of tragedies are filmed and why people are stupid enough to post proof of their incompetence, I present Exhibit A. I think the only tragedy would have been if he was going fast enough to rip that door off. I'm surprised they didn't tie it shut and film it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) It’s too bad the entire thing didn’t blow away in the wind………..I think it should be turned into parts. Why not shoot the video again……easy, It wouldn’t run anymore without spending money and effort to do it again. I rest my case. Edited May 12, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) I've always thought I was pretty indifferent to the bodies on PI's...I like the big stodgy sedans. That is the first PI I wouldn't want as a gift because I'd have a terrible dilemma. I'm enough of a purest to not want to separate the chassis from its original body but that has got to be about the ugliest PI ever built by a reputable company. Edited May 12, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Joe…..it’s nothing a cutting torch couldn’t fix. It’s actually calling out for it. It’s listed as B&S work……but there is a strong chance Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder had a hand in the design. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Looks like the car being advertised as “arriving soon” in the UK by the Real Car Company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 You guys are too harsh. Not attractive, but I think interesting. There are very few "attractive" B&S bodies. I think one was a business guy and one was the body guy but they were missing the designers from Murphy, Frank Hershey, etc, that new how to make things look great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 This is the other one from the same estate the dealer has for sale. https://www.rollsroyceforums.com/threads/1928-rolls-royce-springfield-phantom-i-with-fisher-lasalle-convertible-coupe-body.31035/ 1928 Rolls-Royce Springfield Phantom I with Fisher Convertible body, chassis number S164RP. First delivered to Mr. Erwin of NYC, NY, and then donated by Mrs. Erwin to the Hephzibah Bible School in 1936. Per papers from a Robert Hill in 1985, Robert L. Wilton owned the car in 1945, when it was still a Lonsdale. Wilton had the car for a short time before selling to Walker, a service station operator and he place a body from a 1929 LaSalle on the car. Ownership then appears to have passed to a Bill Young and finally LeCocq who had the car for many decades. Restoration needs to be completed on the car but it is running and driving with aplomb. Not much needed before it is ready for touring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 12 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: If you've ever wondered how videos of tragedies are filmed and why people are stupid enough to post proof of their incompetence, I present Exhibit A. That video reminds of what I've been seeing lots of during the past few summers, and probably will again this summer. Trailers and 5th wheels with parked on the street with the slideouts extended which encroach into the roadway. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 9 hours ago, edinmass said: It’s too bad the entire thing didn’t blow away in the wind………..I think it should be turned into parts. Time will tell if there is any more demand for it than there is for 1936 Pierce Arrow sedans. If there isn't, it could be the next set of photos we'll see here of a dismantling operation. Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, 8E45E said: Time will tell if there is any more demand for it than there is for 1936 Pierce Arrow sedans. If there isn't, it could be the next set of photos we'll see here of a dismantling operation. Craig The value of a P1 chassis that has a good head is 25k if not rusty............they are asking 40........so going to parts is probably 50/50........if the wire wheels are nice..........it could be worth 35k Edited May 12, 2022 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 It sits weird in the back which makes me wonder what else is going on. I’ll need to find Gentile and see what it says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 I knew I had seen that car somewhere. The Bowman and Schwartz sedan is pictured on page 146 of the DeCampi. Originally mounted on a phantom two chassis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Between the top and the back end, it is harsh on the eyes, but engineering, history, and other intangibles still grab my attention. At the right price, I can see someone really enjoying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 Noticed the full length hood in the period picture. also, the body sits lower on the phantom II Chassis. All in all, a much better looking car originally, thanwhat exists now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) I hate to say this about any Phantom (Except all of the Phantom IVs) but that is the ugliest and most miss-proportioned mess that I have ever seen on any car let alone a Rolls-Royce. Why anybody would consider it worth the effort in the first place let alone the additional work of transferring it from one chassis to another, escapes me. If it ever makes it to the Real Car Company (it's been "Arriving soon" for at least 5 months now) I wonder if the price will be much higher than that of a a running chassis. Edited May 12, 2022 by Keith Ward (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Keith Ward said: I hate to say this about any Phantom (Except all of the Phantom IVs) but that is the ugliest and most miss-proportioned mess that I have ever seen on any car let alone a Rolls-Royce. Why anybody would consider it worth the effort in the first place let alone the additional work of transferring it from one chassis to another, escapes me. If it ever makes it to the Real Car Company (it's been "Arriving soon" for at least 5 months now) I wonder if the price will be much higher than that of a a running chassis. I agree on its current incarnation. I sort of like it in it’s original configuration. Edited May 12, 2022 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 It looks like the wheel disks are spun to be almost the full diameter of the tyre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 51 minutes ago, Keith Ward said: It looks like the wheel disks are spun to be almost the full diameter of the tyre? I think that is an illusion created by the thin whitewall stripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 If it was originally on a PII chassis I'd have no problem at all taking it off...like the previous owner of the PII did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 16, 2022 Author Share Posted May 16, 2022 How did we miss this? https://www.thehulltruth.com/trucks-trailers-sale-wanted/1133553-1927-rolls-royce.html Springfield special 4 passenger, Brewster body, phantom 1. All original, aluminum body, the paint has been stripped off. Last ran 20 years ago. I have no reason to believe the car will not run again with some TLC. The car is located in the Philadelphia suburbs. Asking $100,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 That's... actually a really nice looking car. Not worth $100,000 (although that might be what it costs to make it run again), but certainly a worthy project. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted May 16, 2022 Author Share Posted May 16, 2022 My understanding is that this car was Brad Hunter’s. I think his handle on the forum was silverghost? I’m a sucker for these two door Victoria style bodies. The greenhouse is very high but I find it attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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