Keith Ward

I would agree the Brewster bodies, although a bit glitzy for the English market were very high quality, almost as good as a Barker (the coach-builder of Kings) As for the council of perfection, I urge anybody reading this thread not to be put off buying and enjoying one of these cars by them. Like tens of thousands of other technicians, mechanics and chartered engineers I used to be licensed to work on aircraft frames and engines and compared to them for quality and complexity all the pre war Rolls-Royce cars are tractors. There is no mystique about them and people don’t die if they stop turning, any aviation mechanic, technician or engineer would find all of the pre-war cars a walk in the park compared to the most basic light aircraft engine and could fix, repair, maintain and reverse engineer them as expertly as they do in their day to day job without boasting. conversely I would be surprised to learn that there was a single pre-war Rolls-Royce specialist that has been certificated as sufficiently competent to work on a Cessna. so all I’m saying is ignore the people saying you need to do stuff to their dictates. Certainly try to find competent help but in the uk there is an old phrase which is “Self praise is a poor accolade” and the best artisans are usually the most modest. This will upset most people but it is demonstrable so if you are new to pre-war Rolls-Royce ownership remember: If the guy taking your money is calling the shots,,,you’re doing it wrong. 😉

I think this car might sell for less than 100k probably about 65k to 85k but prices are very unpredictable. The dash is different but if this body was lifted of a Silver Ghost and grafted onto a P1 by the owner then this is probably understandable as the Ghosts often had much higher arched bonnets which would explain the very deep windscreen capping and this has resulted in the instrument board being pushed lower and coming close to the central levers of the Springfield P2 (remembering if this had come of a Derby Ghost chassis it would have had right hand steering and levers) I have seen many many Pre-Wars with veneered door and windscreen cappings but plain un-veneered instrument boards, my P2 has this arrangement. It is probable that the instrument board was fitted when (if) the body was transplanted from a Silver Ghost Chassis to but judging by the modern thumbnail bead edge and absence of the fabric between the screen capping and the instrument board I would say it is quite modern. Never mind though, its looks reasonably good and a useable car, a bit scruffy but all things that can put right (that’s the job of a pre-war owner), and all that means the sale price is more affordable. Good luck if you are thinking of buying it

There has been some very factual and correct observations made about this car as well as some very judgemental ones. I am currently restoring an A Series P2 and have obviously discussed this with many people and on many forums. The thing that strikes me most about the RR community as opposed to others is that the standards of perfection imposed by some are quite oppressive. I have seen and played with hundreds of these cars but the overriding impression I get is that there are many people who think you should restore your car to their (usually unattainable) standards. But the truth is you don’t. Your car only has to please one person thats you. the person who restored this car could well have returned it from a derelict back into a very serviceable Rolls Royce and it might have been done before parts, clubs, records, drawings were as available as they are today. The person who owned my car previously let it rot and bashed it up until it was almost un restorable, he is venerated as the respected collector and enthusiast instead of being pilloried as a j**k. I have no doubt that some time in the future somebody will criticise the choices I made whilst putting right the damage and neglect of the previous owner and perhaps dismiss it as a “cheap restoration” but I don’t care, like the person who restored this car I will be comfortable in the knowledge that I saved a great car from the scrap yard and if later owners want to over restore it to the ridicules standards needed to win a rosette at pebble beach they can but no car of mine will ever be judged by anybody other than me. I saw a chassis at Burghley restored to a standard never achieved by the factory and painted with gloss black instead of the brown primer it would have had, this might please today's council of perfection but it didn’t reflect the standards of the Rolls-Royce quality department. The car in these pictures may not win any rosettes but I’ll bet it was saved from the scrap yards and has probably given many more hours of reliable driving enjoyment than any of the trailer queens of pebble beach. don’t worry about what other people think, buy it and enjoy it. It is a learning curve but you’ll get there

Cameron needs to get a decent mechanic if if takes "football pitches to stop" a Phantom II, if the brakes and servo are set properly a Phantom II will stop on a pin

In reply to the question about the LHD Phantoms being a better platform than a RHD car. When introduced the AJS chassis had many characteristics that were considered essential to sell in the American market but were not included on the original 1929 UK specification, things like (but not limited to) comprehensive one shot chassis lubrication (I think), larger rear brakes and thermostatically controlled radiator louvres etc. By the end of production in 1936 the UK specification had caught up and most of the AJS/AMS features had been added. I personally think the early to mid 30s were the golden era of car styling and the PII is the best chassis to demonstrate that styling on.

Hi Al, The original colour was a bit vague on the scheme but the colours were black & grey, I’m going to do it all black.

I think this topic started with a picture of my car 215AMS well I thought you’d like to see that work is progressing at last. The project was hampered by Covid and a clown ash framer but hopefully those sort of things are behind me and I can get on with the work. I don’t know why the picture is upside down.

I have a friend here in the UK who has a P1 stashed away (so far its a 30 year restoration) that had 3 bodies built for it by Park Ward between 1928 and 1939 to keep up with fashion.

The thing to do is to 3d model the patterns then sand cast to heads in small batches, any decent pattern maker could translate the head drawings into 3d technology and he would also understand the different compensations needed for Iron as opposed to aluminium because they will be very different due to different cooling rates (giving cavities if wrong) and shrinkages (giving cracking)

It looks like the wheel disks are spun to be almost the full diameter of the tyre?

I hate to say this about any Phantom (Except all of the Phantom IVs) but that is the ugliest and most miss-proportioned mess that I have ever seen on any car let alone a Rolls-Royce. Why anybody would consider it worth the effort in the first place let alone the additional work of transferring it from one chassis to another, escapes me. If it ever makes it to the Real Car Company (it's been "Arriving soon" for at least 5 months now) I wonder if the price will be much higher than that of a a running chassis.

Looks like the car being advertised as “arriving soon” in the UK by the Real Car Company

Wow, that is shockingly beautiful, it's good to see the skills and talent needed to build such masterpieces still exist today, I take my hat off to them.

There is a section dedicated to tool kits on the RREC members forum, it is amazing the variation between tool kits even for individual models car, the tools section in the handbooks just shows what was available to buy but I don’t think any car carried everything shown. The AMS and AJS chassis were shipped to the US without tool kits (and other things) to reduce US import duty

Al, RR didn’t use the number 13 in their numbering schemes either so no 213AMS

I think from memory there were 25 AMS chassis built but I could be mistaken.

150 inches.

Al, I'm not sure of the developments between the JS and MS chassis, there is very little documentation of the A' series and quite a bit of what I have seen is incorrect, obviously written by people who have never really examined them. One thing that I am sure of though is that none of them had synchromesh on any gears contrary to this ill-informed Gooding & Co description https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1933-rolls-royce-phantom-ii-henley-roadster?fbclid=IwAR1eTEOSNPX486crM0jHyES8yCRhqJA2RVbiTTMJ_dPGI2JH6pZac3LIXB0

I think the cream P1 is fairly priced because it has whitewalls, like 220AMS, any pre-war Rolls-Royce suffering the indignation of being fitted with 1940s style whitewalls should be devalued by 80% 😉

If it sells for less than $60k then I will halt the restoration and spending on mine and part it out.

If 220AMS actually sells for the estimated $60k then it would be worth buying and rebodying with something more desirable. I was once told that of the original 8 Henley Roadsters built, only 12 survive 😉

Thanks Al, much appreciated, the car was taken to a few rallies and did appear in a tiny picture in the Flying Lady many years ago so they might have something. K

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit but does anybody know Lloyd Reddington? He once owned my car 215AMS and I was wondering if he is contactable to see if he still has any historic details of the car, because all I know about it is that it was delivered to Fredrick William Cowan in Toronto in 1933 and at some unknown point in time it was bought by Col Philip Bushby who owned it for many years (of neglect) before Lloyd Reddington bought it.

I like the full flow filter, I plan similar for mine.

Are you selling it Al?