1925 Buick master 55x restoration

[25 Buick]

Ok so after some identification help from you guys here on the forum I can start the restoration process. I will be doing a running driving chassis followed by the body and then interior then roof etc. as I can manage to get only a couple hours a week if I'm lucky it won't be a quick job but still hoping to have completed within a year, funds and missing parts permitting. 

 

Here are are some photos of purchased, pressure washed down , rear tub off, body unbolted and as soon as daytime hits I will be grabbing someone to help me lift the body of the chassis.

keep you updated,

 

from australia Brendan

[hidden_hunter]

Queenslander? Good to see another Australian on here

 

[Terry Wiegand]

I hope you have several bushel basketfuls of $100.00 bills when you start this project.  You are going to need them.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Braver man than me!

  Good luck.

 

  Ben

 

[JayG]

Good Luck.  A year is ambitious.

[Pete Phillips]

Wow, with wire wheels, no less!!! Only the third or fourth one of these I have ever seen with the rare wire wheel option. Nice find!

[ROD W]

25 Buick 

Do you have all the wood for the back seat.  I don,t have any wood for mine,  so it would be good to get some photos.

[25 Buick]

I should clarify it's a rebuild not a 100point restoration. Will be a strong and safe driver as as I'm missing a heap of the interior and woodwork has been half done by someone else. I am more interested in using this car not showing. 

 

Couldnt get help this morning so entrusted my four friends ( the car hoist ) to assist me take the body off. That's all I got before I had to pack up and head out. Hopefully get some more time on it next weekend.

[25 Buick]

10 minutes ago, ROD W said:

25 Buick 

Do you have all the wood for the back seat.  I don,t have any wood for mine,  so it would be good to get some photos.

There is some bits and pieces but unsure if it's for this car or not I will be making new bits.

[dibarlaw]

For reference this is what the longer 1924-45 body frame looks like. The "dog leg" in back of the rear door looks like some one carved it from a solid piece. I remember finding the photo on the net. Hugh has many photos of the wood from his 1925-25 in which the structure would be similar.

There would be a cross member on the rear tub? Or they may be located with the 5 vertical members of the rear tub to mount the 3/8" X 18 tpi trunk bumpers. I have several of them in poor shape. If it would be me I would turn them up out of stainless

[ROD W]

Larry

That wooden frame is for a 24-45.  I remember seeing the car in the early 70,s soon after a complete restoration.

I picked up these brass trunk bumpers,  very similar to the originals.

25 Buick

What is the depth of this piece of timber,  from the chassis to the top.  That looks like the height of the seat.  Is it attached to the chassis by a couple of brackets.

[ROD W]

I would also be interested in getting some body measurements,   as  I,m not sure if I have put too much curve in my main body rails

[1924 6-55 Sport Tourer]

Dibarlaw, 

This is what the trunk bump stops looked like on my car. They are alloy in construction and i assume they would have been polished as were the 5 curved bars that the trunk sits on.

From the inside, you can see how they attach to the 5 timbers in the tub.(1 of mine is missing) sorry bout the poor quality photo 

And up close, this is how the bump stop is attached to the timbers, via an aluminium bracket. I hope this helps those that are curious.

 

Regards,

 

David.

[Hubert_25-25]

David and Rod W,

      I have drawn full size drawings of all the wood in the body of a 1925 Buick Standard Touring.  Good for reference for your Master or 1924 6 cylinder, especially the 2 wood pieces behind the rear doors.  You can view them as PDF, print small copies, or take them to an office supply store that has a large format printer and get the full size drawings made.  Some drawings have to be taped together once printed due to the length of the parts.  An example of the rear wheel arch wood is at the very bottom of this post.

The problem is that these are large files, so I would either need to send you a USB drive, or have someone walk me thru how to post these on the cloud so people can access them easily.  There are 22 files and each is 5 to 10 MB.  So I would need a place that would take 250 to 450 MB, preferably a free site.  I also have photos of all the wood pieces, so more space needed as they are about 3 MB each.  I may be able to break them up and post in separate forum postings, as they allow 125 MB per post.  This may be my best solution. 

Notice that the Standard Toneau area is similar but different than your car.  Also, do not glue all this together and then expect to slip the metal tub over the back.  I am not sure how they originally glued all this together, but I was able to install it, if I kept the wood in 3 pieces.  The base, the back, and the upper surround.  See the photo with the tub shown. 

Hugh

      

 

Here is an attempt at posting the rear wheel arches and the wood over the rear axle PDF.

HPSC0144 rear wheel arches.pdf

HPSC0219 LT over rear axle.pdf

Edited June 28, 2017 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[ROD W]

25 Buick,  Sorry to have taken over your thread.  But it is about  the  model 55  timber frame so hopefully it will be helpful  for you also.

Hugh.  Thank  you for those photos of your timber frame.  The 55 rear seat timber,   differs in a number of ways to the standard and the 120" wheel base cars,  as the tub sits further forward on the chassis,  which really only effects the seat.  All the top part of the timber are  pretty much the same on all models.  The tub support bracket on the 55 does not have that extra leg extending to the back and only a small foot where it attaches to the main chassis rails, which does not give nearly as much support to the front of the tub as the larger bracket.    My problem has been not knowing how far  forward the seat came.   But looking at the pic of 25 Buick,s,  it looks as if the wood supporting the front of the seat is directly above the chassis cross rail.

David,  My tub bumpers,  screw directly into  a metal bracket.  I think that aluminium may have been used as the screws rotted out in the timber.

[ROD W]

When I was a teenager,   there was a vintage and classic car restoration business not far from where I lived.  They built new bodies for Rolls Royce,  Alvis,  Vauxhall,  At one time I remember  seeing a new roadster body being built for a Buick.  I used to call in regularly on weekends and school holidays.  ( I,m surprised they didn,t tell me to go home).  They told me never to glue a wooden body together as the chassis flexes and the body needs to be able to move with  the chassis.  If the body is glued it becomes too rigid and the joints will end up breaking.  Probably today, roads are much better and there  is less twisting of the chassis than in the past.  However.

What I do to get nice tight joints,  which can be done on new wood and  where old wood joints are very loose and the wood around the screws is rotten.  Fill any gaps, cracks  with thickened epoxy,  place thin plastic between the joint and reassemble in the correct position.  Once the glue has set,  the joint can be separated,  resulting in a very tight joint.

[1924 6-55 Sport Tourer]

Rod W,

I understand what you are saying, however if you look at the 3rd picture in post #13 you will observe that the aluminium bracket is between the tub and the metal bracket that the stud that the "tub bumper" is screwed too. Additionally you can just see a nail (1 of 2 in each bracket) that also secured the bracket to the timber from a 90 degree angle (extra strength?)

This could only have been done during the body construction by the builder as it has to be done prior to the upholstery being installed.

A personal touch by the coahbuilder i suppose.

 

David.

[25 Buick]

On 26/06/2017 at 8:43 AM, ROD W said:

Larry

That wooden frame is for a 24-45.  I remember seeing the car in the early 70,s soon after a complete restoration.

I picked up these brass trunk bumpers,  very similar to the originals.

25 Buick

What is the depth of this piece of timber,  from the chassis to the top.  That looks like the height of the seat.  Is it attached to the chassis by a couple of brackets.

Hi rod, the rear timber is missing and not sure if what bits are there are correct or not. I will get a measurement for you this week but that peice is bolted to the two tabs from the uprights where the rear doors meet the tub.

[25 Buick]

Not even the weekend yet but managed a good effort this afternoon on the Buick. Pulled the front guards, steering, radiator and motor, front end removed and the rear end removed, its hard work fighting every rusted bolt just have the running boards and brake levers to remove now before I can prep the frame. I am unsure on the rear setup for this as the fuel filler will go towards the tub through the hole for the luggage rack. Not through the fuel hole on the chassis. Is this just a standard chassis design or should I cut it off?

[25 Buick]

I will have to check out your wire wheel holder David. But I've got plenty to concentrate on first. I was just going to make one but when I saw your photo above it peeked my interest into if it's a factory bracket? 

 

yes it's a big fat mess but you have to do the dirty to get to the good work

 

 

[1924 6-55 Sport Tourer]

25 Buick,

No. Don't cut the fuel filler off!

That is how it is meant to be. The panel that the trunk sits on covers the rear crossmember. Once a trunk is insitu, it covers up the "normal" fuel filler point (and the fuel gauge too). The masters have a fuel gauge incoroporated into the instrument cluster. Therefore the fuel filler point has to exit out the side/end of the tank.

During the daylight hours on the weekend i will photograph the spare wheel holder for you. I believe it is factory.

 

David

[25 Buick]

i thought that may be the case David. As you can see I have to do some straightening on the front and rear crossbars. And noticed the drivers (right hand side for here ) front suspension leaves are different to the other side and sits lower. Are they ment to be the same or do they bias for the weight of the driver? If that's the case which I don't think is correct I will need to swap sides.

 

[1924 6-55 Sport Tourer]

25 Buick,

Those front and rear crossbars are a pain. At least 1/4 " thick!  I had to cut mine out, put it in a 40 tonne press to straighten and re weld.

I wouldn't have thought that the springs would be different (L) to (R) but i have been wrong before. My spring leaves are equal (11 leaves each ?)

Interestingly, i have 4 step irons on the (R) side, and 3 on the (L). I think i see only 3 on each side of your car, but yours is a '25 and mine is a '24.

[25 Buick]

Yes  I think some slight differences but this car is an early 25 and uses some 24 parts and even shares some 24 plate numbers although casting numbers are 25. Maybe you have extra step iron for your battery box. Mine has a box but it obviously isn't for the car as under the floor next to the gearbox is a bracket for a battery. I will be using the battery box even if it's not original because I hate having battery's hidden under floors. So possibly I will need to add another step iron.

Edited June 29, 2017 by 25 Buick (see edit history)

[25 Buick]

Rod here are photos showing the timber it's notched around the chassis and is 130mm high in the middle from bottom to top of wood. Sorry didn't realise the photo was so dark. But my upright bracket has side bits that screw to the timber it's not an add on but cast.

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by 25 Buick (see edit history)

[ROD W]

25 Buick,   Thanks for that,  I have a couple of brackets with those tabs and a couple without.  So I will use the ones with the tabs. 

Here,s a pic of the spare tyre carrier.

[25 Buick]

I have a couple of those type carriers but won't work with wire wheels.

[1924 6-55 Sport Tourer]

25 Buick,

Attached are a couple of photos of the spare wheel carrier.

 

I have a couple of other photos on the car that i need to download to the tablet, once loaded i will also submit.

 

David

[1924 6-55 Sport Tourer]

25 Buick,

Extra photos as promised.

 

David.

[25 Buick]

Thanks David, it's defiantly an original item. I've noticed a few extra bits my car is missing but oh well the search for parts begins

[25 Buick]

Well I didn't get very much time last weekend at all to work on the Buick but managed to strip the rest of the brakes and running boards off.  Had to straighten the rear crossmember a lot first and then cut it out and replace it found some hydraulic ram that fits the same size. After breaking my 10tonne ram I finally got the chassis levelled and straightened. Now to do the front and get some prep on the chassis ready for the por15 rust prevention paint. 

[25 Buick]

On 01/07/2017 at 6:44 PM, 1924 6-55 Sport Tourer said:

25 Buick,

Extra photos as promised.

 

David.

Wanting to buy any parts except the wheel of this spare wheel carrier will pay shipping etc. if anyone stumble across one in their travels thankyou.

[25 Buick]

Well not getting much spare time lately but managed to get the frame crossmembers straightened out. And prep ready for paint removing all grease and loose rust washed down with por metal ready and got it in two primer coats of por15. The rear leaf spring perches proved more than stubborn and had to be drilled and split to be punched out. They were badly worn anyway and the spring mount will need extensive repair also. What can I say you guys do a good paint product!! Although not uv resistant and the sun we have plenty of here in Aus I will be topcoating with a 2k gloss black. 

 

Brendan 

[25 Buick]

Cheated a bit this arfternoon and filled just the bits you see with some high filler to cover the heavy rust pits then sand smooth and sealed all the por15 with an 2k satin black.

[michaelod]

Just curious.  Did you sandblast the frame prior to painting it?

 

Thanks,

Michael

[JerryVan]

1 hour ago, michaelod said:

Just curious.  Did you sandblast the frame prior to painting it?

 

Thanks,

Michael

 

 

I believe he followed the directions on the can...

 

 

[hidden_hunter]

The only thing I’ve found with that stuff is that I’ve got quite spotty coverage on some materials but it’s fine once you go over it with a top coat

[25 Buick]

If the frame were sandblasted I would have used just an epoxy and topcoats. I used the por15 product because it can go directly to prepared rusted steel. 

[Hubert_25-25]

Each person can do their car the way they like.  Just because the can says "directly paint over rust" does not mean that it is as effective or as durable as sandblasting and epoxy primer with topcoat.  POR 15 is kind of a rubberized paint.  It really does nothing to neutralize the rust.  I have seen it peel off.  It is easier and less expensive than blasting and painting.  When I have blasting done, it is white metal or I make the blaster keep going to remove all the black specks.  If the specs are left, that is where the rust will return.  I don't pay them to remove 95% of the rust.  Some people just use OSPHO (phosphoric acid) to "Neutralize" the rust and then do body work and paint over it.  I guess it depends on how long you plan to keep the car.  I am sure your car will look very nice when it is done, but buyers expectation is that the rust was removed and not coated over.  I am glad that you are restoring another old Buick, but I am just not a fan to all claims of POR 15.   

[25 Buick]

Yes I agree blasting is a better option. I own a restoration business here in Australia. And use that method on customers cars including acid washing of bare steel and coatings on inside rails before paint. But rust cannot grow if it has no contact to air. So one my Buick frame once the loose rust was all removed and acid washed in all areas to neutralise the rust then was por metal prep washed then applied por direct to rust. Then epoxy and high fillers then topcoats. 

 

Allthough it it was a hell of a lot more work I can't see this method failing any sooner than a blasted and epoxy method. But with a labour effort as opposed to a huge sandblasting cost I this area, I chose the por.  $100 a tin opposed to a $1500 cost for blasting in this area which then still needs to be correctly prepped before painting. Also this is a budget build and as you all know the costs involved I need to save anywhere I can but without compromising too much.

 

different story if I painted over rust and not prepared and used correct sealers beforehand. Sandblasting keys the surface and rust forms within seconds if it is not neutralised before painting. The only thing stopping it from rusting further is the seal from quality paints if the paint it pourus then the air gets in creates moisture and rust grows. Doesn't really matter how much rust you seal none or a lot as long as there is not layers of rust where air can be underneath this creates an air gap and lets the rust grow in that area.

 

there is a lot of myths about treating bare metal on the internet but I haven't had an issue with the blasting treating painting side of things and yes my first time using the por directly over rust but with the theory of removing the air and treating the remaining rust as long as it is sealed I cannot see how the rust can oxidise further.

 

im sure you will love my next method for rust on parts so stay tuned haha

 

my two cents

brendan