My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project

[JV Puleo]

Pouring a simple bushing was a skill I think every mechanic had...in fact one that probably extended to farmers and anyone even remotely acquainted with machines. As an example...

 

In 1909 the Army sent it's first "trans continental dispatch" via automobile from NY to San Francisco at the instigation of Chief of Staff Leonard Wood* (in a Model T Mitchell...the same model as mine). Not having a qualified soldier to drive the car, it was driven by Malcolm Parrot (a member of the NY National Guard) and Frank Zirbies - a racing driver and employee of the Mitchell Company. They were accompanied by an Engineering Officer named Rosenthal who had been a member of one of the two Volunteer Engineer Regiments raised during the Spanish American War.

 

In the Rocky mountains a rod bearing failed. They pulled the piston and rod and limped along on 3 cylinders (in a snow storm) until they found a deserted miner's shack. In the shack they found an old pump. They built a fire and melted the Babbitt out of the pump bearings...then used it to pour a connecting rod bearing. What they used for fixtures I've no idea but whatever it was, it was improvised. The bearing was scraped in with a pocket knife and the piston and rod replaced. It got them to California where they were able to telegraph the nearest Mitchel dealer to send them a proper rod...

 

None of these guys claimed to be mechanics but they apparently knew enough to cobble up a repair that would flummox nearly anyone today.

 

They would have simply coated the brake shafts with soot and poured Babbitt around them through the oil holes...Very easy and the dams, to keep most of the Babbitt in were part of the casting. All it would have taken was a little clay to plug the small remaining space. I'll photograph those tomorrow before I obliterate them.

 

*An interesting character...he was trained as a doctor. During the Geronimo campaing he took command of a unit when he was the only surviving officer. At his own request he transferred to active field duty and rose to be the Chief of Staff. He was the Colonel of the Rough Riders (TR was the Lt. Colonel).

 

There was a local (Fall River, MA) man with a big Studebaker - about 1915. He was leaving for the Glidden tour – driving the car of course – but had a rod fail while only a few miles from home. He turned around, went back to his garage, pulled the offending rod, poured a new bearing and was back on the road, albeit about 5 or 6 ours late.

[JV Puleo]

In the same vein... I was getting my 1910 REO ready to drive to Newport for the big local car show on a Friday. It had screwed in, cast iron in valve guides and I broke one. I used a piece of mill shafting to turn a new one and threaded it. This was the first time I ever used the lathe to thread anything and it was only a fluke that I had the correct change gears. That guide may not have been perfect but it was in the car when I sold it.

Edited June 9, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

14 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Pouring a simple bushing was a skill I think every mechanic had...in fact one that probably extended to farmers and anyone even remotely acquainted with machines. As an example...

 

In 1909 the Army sent it's first "trans continental dispatch" via automobile from NY to San Francisco at the instigation of Chief of Staff Leonard Wood* (in a Model T Mitchell...the same model as mine). Not having a qualified soldier to drive the car, it was driven by Malcolm Parrot (a member of the NY National Guard) and Frank Zirbies - a racing driver and employee of the Mitchell Company. They were accompanied by an Engineering Officer named Rosenthal who had been a member of one of the two Volunteer Engineer Regiments raised during the Spanish American War.

 

In the Rocky mountains a rod bearing failed. They pulled the piston and rod and limped along on 3 cylinders (in a snow storm) until they found a deserted miner's shack. In the shack they found an old pump. They built a fire and melted the Babbitt out of the pump bearings...then used it to pour a connecting rod bearing. What they used for fixtures I've no idea but whatever it was, it was improvised. The bearing was scraped in with a pocket knife and the piston and rod replaced. It got them to California where they were able to telegraph the nearest Mitchel dealer to send them a proper rod...

 

None of these guys claimed to be mechanics but they apparently knew enough to cobble up a repair that would flummox nearly anyone today.

 

They would have simply coated the brake shafts with soot and poured Babbitt around them through the oil holes...Very easy and the dams, to keep most of the Babbitt in were part of the casting. All it would have taken was a little clay to plug the small remaining space. I'll photograph those tomorrow before I obliterate them.

 

*An interesting character...he was trained as a doctor. During the Geronimo campaing he took command of a unit when he was the only surviving officer. At his own request he transferred to active field duty and rose to be the Chief of Staff. He was the Colonel of the Rough Riders (TR was the Lt. Colonel).

 

There was a local (Fall River, MA) man with a big Studebaker - about 1915. He was leaving for the Glidden tour – driving the car of course – but had a rod fail while only a few miles from home. He turned around, went back to his garage, pulled the offending rod, poured a new bearing and was back on the road, albeit about 5 or 6 ours late.

Joe:

Just finished reading Vol XI of 14 of the "Works of Theodore Roosevelt" "The Rough Riders". Colonel Leonard Wood is referenced quite a bit and I found the name Rosenthal in the "Muster-Out Rolls" Roosevelt included in the book.

 

[JV Puleo]

Wilson hated both Wood and TR and purposely kept them out of WWI. There was a famous cartoon that showed the two of them looking toward Europe with one saying to the other "well, he certainly kept us out of it."

[M1842]

22 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

Wilson hated both Wood and TR and purposely kept them out of WWI. There was a famous cartoon that showed the two of them looking toward Europe with one saying to the other "well, he certainly kept us out of it."

After TR lost his son in battle, he started to lose his will to leave.  Quentin  Roosevelt was a fighter pilot and was shot down and killed in German territory.  The Germans did a full military funeral for him and filmed the ceremony to send to TR.  Between the assassination attempt, the almost fatal trip up the Amazon, and Quentin's death, Teddy's last decade was pretty hard on him.  Teddy was only 59 when he passed.

 

Mark  

Edited June 10, 2021 by M1842
Added information (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I took out one more rivet then flipped the rear axle over on its stand. I made the stand years ago when I brought the axle into the shop because it was so heavy and difficult to handle. It's proved a blessing...I'd hate to have to manhandle this thing when it is assembled.

 

 

Two more rivets and the backing plate is off.

 

 

Now I need to ream the bushing holes. They have lips on both ends to help keep the Babbitt in and are nothing like finished holes. I calculated this a long time ago when I did the other side. They get reamed to 1-3/6". To do that I used a tapered car or bridge reamer. The name comes from it's use in building bridges and railroad cars where a guide hole wold be punched but its impossible to put holes in mating pieces perfectly so after the pieces were in place and aligned the holes were reamed to finish them. I had a lot of trouble with this the last time I did it...using a long reamer in a big electric drill that would catch and just about break my arms. So, I bought this short reamer with a hex head so I could just use a big ratchet wrench and go slowly...only to realize I need a 1-13/16 socket that I don't have. I ordered one and I'll go back to this when it comes in.

 

 

I also fiddled with the motorcycle a bit. This is the fork seal holder. It's toast... rusted through in one spot and bulged from getting full of water and freezing in the old boat house. In order to install the new one I need a special tool and rather than buy it, I'll just make one but I need to cut this down so I can measure the [lace where the tool engages it.

 

 

This is the piece I had so much trouble with yesterday. It turns out the end is mushroomed - which is why I couldn't pull it off. It shows the effects of being hammered on at some point and fixing it is proving a lot more difficult than I'd anticipated. It is a very awkward shape that won't go into the lathe readily and doesn't have center holes to align it. I'm sure they made it in some sort of fixture but I've no idea what that looked like. I actually spent most of the afternoon trying to think of a way to deal with it. I think I have a solution but it will require making at least two more holding fixtures.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

It looks like fixing these two parts will require 3 fixtures. This is the first...

 

 

A 3/4 hole in the center turned down to 2-1/4" and then slit. This will be a big clamp.

 

 

That will allow me to grip the piece in the big chuck. This is simply to put a center hole in the end of the piece so I can turn it on centers.

 

[JV Puleo]

I put the big chuck on the lathe to use the clamp I'd made to drill the center holes...

 

 

 

Next up I had to devise a way of holding the piece so I could turn it between centers. This proved to be quite simple.

 

 

 

 

I plugged the old tapered in holes with a new tapered pin.

 

 

Then set it all up to turn with a stop on the lathe bed and the dial indicator set to get a precise measrement.

 

 

The result was pretty good. These are slightly bigger than 5/8" in order to get a press fit with the sleeves I will add to bring the OD back to 3/4"

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

The next step was to face off the pieces. This is because they've been hammered and, to press the sleeves on I want this face perfectly perpendicular to the shaft.

I took very little off... .015 on one of them and .020 on the other.

 

 

Now they stand up perfectly straight.

 

 

Then I cut 2 pieces of 7/8" L1214 bar.

 

 

Drilled and reamed to 5/8"

 

 

And pressed them on...adding some Locktite press fit.

 

 

Tomorrow I will add a tapered pin through the sleeve and shaft as a further means of locking them in place though it is doubtful that is really needed.

 

 

And then turn them down to 3/4". The sleeve itself will only be 1/16" thick when done.

[JV Puleo]

Today I drilled through the pieces and put a 000 tapered pin in to further anchor the sleeve. It's probably not really needed but why not?

 

 

Then set up the face plate and fixture to turn them. The last time I had a measurable taper which I attribute to the fact that the quill on the tail stock was extended much further than I ordinarily would allow to make room for the carriage. It's one of the consequences of working with old machines. They are worn and you sometimes have to work around that. This time I used the boring head center I made to cut the Brown & Sharpe taper which allowed me to zero in the piece and keep the extension on the quill short.

 

 

 

I took light cuts and used a tool I ordinarily use on brass because it is important to get a really good finish on this part.

 

 

Then, because for some reason I wasn't completely knackered, I put the big chuck on to trim the ends...

 

 

Now all that is left is to recut the key seat (the cutter is on the way) and mill some flats for the locking set screws. You can see ho thin the finished sleeves are...

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Luv2Wrench]

Outstanding work as well as a pictorial how-to for those that might find themselves needing to do a similar task. As always, thanks for sharing!

[JV Puleo]

Thanks Jeff...that is the point. There's nothing mysterious about this stuff but a lot of people just haven't thought about it.

This morning I made the 3rd fixture for the brake pivots. It's very simple, just a square of aluminum with a 3/4" hole and two set screws to hold the shaft while I cut the key seat.

 

 

Because it's square I can line the shaft up perfectly to get the key seat directly in the middle.

 

 

Then on to reaming out the holes that I'll be bushing. I did two of them probably 3 or 4 years ago and it was such an ordeal I didn't bother with the other two... after all, it would be years until I needed them. That time I used a long tapered reamer powered by a big 1/2" drill I no longer have. It was a real pain because the reamer would catch on the rough casting and nearly break my wrist. At some point I bought a shorter reamer with a hex head with the intention of doing it by hand...

 

 

Even though it's tedious...it took about 2-1/2 hours to ream this hole...it was still better than the old way.

But, the straight portion of the reamer wasn't quite long enough to go all the way through so I found the long reamer I'd used before. To turn it by hand, I attached a lathe dog.

 

 

And that worked surprisingly well...keeping in mind that the hole was 99% done at this point and I just needed to take a few thousandths out to  make the sides perfectly parallel.

 

 

The hole itself came out excellent. Despite the look, I'm only taking a few thousandths off the ID of the cast hole - just enough to smooth it out. In fact, though it doesn't show in the picture, there is a rough spot where the reamer didn't reach.

 

 

I then went on the the other one but only got about half done before I decided to quit for the day.

 

 

Tomorrow I'll finish this hole and make two steel sleeves to press into the holes.

Edited June 15, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[edinmass]

If I tried that, it would turn out to be a mess! 

[JV Puleo]

I rather doubt that. Like anything else, it's all a matter of diving in and being willing to make an error or two. I'd rather do this sort of thing than work on one of those multi-cylinder super-cars you tackle all the time....and electrical problems give me a headache!

 

Here I am making odd and unusual parts and I can't figure out how to get the damned tail gate lock out of my 89 S-10 Blazer!

[edinmass]

I find thinking through problems for a few days makes the repair ten times easier. Too many people jump in and pound on a problem. Slow carful thought prevents mistakes, and from damaging irreplaceable parts and components. I also like to have every possible tool on hand ahead of time before I begin the service. It doesn't always happen, but 95 percent of the time it works out well as far as timing goes. Like a doctor......DO NO HARM.......and never work a solution that can put you in a dead end......difficult problems often have multiple solutions........I like to figure out three ways to fix something.......and then as I go along adapt to the situation. 

[JV Puleo]

I agree completely. The only time I'll just attack a problem is when I've done it before and have already thought it out. Even then, I often think of something better either while doing the job or when it's done. Nearly all the stuff I'm dong right now is the result of having thought about it for years...and discarding any number of possible solutions.

[JV Puleo]

I finished the 2nd hole this morning...

 

 

Then cut two pieces of 1-1/4" bar.

 

 

Drilled and reamed to 1" – the OK of the bushing.

 

 

 

 

I finished up by setting up the lathe to turn the OD's of these. 1-3/16" is 1.1875. I measured the holes and camp up with 1.196 which isn't surprising given I was turning the reamer by had with a wrench. Also, I don't know how close to the nominal size these car reamers are supposed to be. They are intended to ream holes for big bolts so they may make an oversize hole...I've never seen actual specifications for them.

 

[EDIT] I did a quick search to see if I could find anything on the accuracy of these reamers and, as I thought, the tolerance is as much as +.010. - never smaller than the nominal size but usually larger. That's encouraging because it tells me that the holes actually are truly round and that I didn't do anything wrong.

Edited June 16, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

 

The next step was to turn the sleeves down to 1.197" - giving me a press fit with a wall thickness of slightly less than .100

 

 

I put some Locktite "press fit" on them and pulled them in using some of 3/4" threaded rod and a couple of nuts - with washers to protect the ends.

 

 

 

Then the holes were drilled out - through the sleeve - for a 1/8 NPT thread.

 

 

Before I declared it done, I threaded the holes so that a 1/8 pipe plug would engage the sleeve but not hit the bushing that will be pressed in. I am going to fit little oilers - probably the same as I used on the tie rod ends. These have to be lubricated but very lightly...only enough to keep the shaft moving freely but not so much that any oil get on the brake linings.

 

 

I spent the rest of the day doing calculations for the axle seals - which are proving more challenging than I'd anticipated.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, JV Puleo said:

 

 

 

I spent the rest of the day doing calculations for the axle seals - which are proving more challenging than I'd anticipated.

Challenging????? Can’t be true. All old cars are easy to fix. Any job should be done in less than an hour. 

[Gary_Ash]

Ed:  You know the drill:  three days of planning for one hour of labor.  As Joe has stated, sometimes it takes years of planning for that mad dash to actually do the job the way it ought to be done.

[JV Puleo]

Today started with an experiment. The gentleman who grinds the special cutters for me once told me he could grind an end mill so that it would give effectively a reamed hole - but would be useless for conventional milling. I've wanted to try that so I bought a long 5/8 end mill and had it reground to 19/32 to fit these thin wall steel bushings lined with sintered bronze and PTFE. I plan to use them in the spring eyes but before I do that I had better see how it works. This is the Pittman arm I'm modifying...the bolt that clamps it to the steering box arm is 9/16" while the original bolt, and the notch in the arm is 1/2". The idea is to bush it down so the 1/2" bolt will work. First I made an alignment tool, a piece of 3/4 rod turned down to 9/16. I use this in the spindle of the mill to make certain the hole is both centered and in perfect vertical alignment.

 

 

 

Then plunge milled the hole...

 

 

These are the bushings.

 

 

Inserted in the hole with a little Locktite press fit compound. You can see how thin the wall is. I want to use these for the springs because Mitchell had no bushings at all. The holes are worn but I don't want to remove any more material than is necessary.

 

 

This morning - after having slept well, I finally had an idea on how to make the improved axle seals and ,like so many of my projects, the final design is much simpler than my original idea. I started with this slug of aluminum bar...drill and reamed to 1-1/2"

 

 

 

I finished this part of the operation...

 

 

But got no further than setting up the next step...a counterbore to hold the felt seals.

 

 

I'll go on with this if I cone in tomorrow...I have to mow first and I'm really neglecting a lot of work at my house (but I like doing this better)!

[JV Puleo]

 

The seal holders counterbored to 1-7/8"...the felt seals will be 1-3/8" ID and 1-7/8" OD.

 

 

The holders are made to slip into the axle tube but to minimize oil leakage around them I'm adding a cover - in fact, the same as the original seal holder but in this case it will be attached to the new aluminum holder. I'd have use one of the extras I made earlier but the holes aren't in the right place. I cut up this piece of 22 gauge sheet metal - not the easiest thing to find around here in a small size...and I paid a full $6 for it. Years ago my garage was next door to a sheet metal shop and I had unlimited access to their trash barrels. Sheet metal work is not something I've done much of but fortunately, I have this neat electric "nibbler" a friend gave me about a year ago.

 

 

They get a 1-1/2" hole in the center - Using the Greenlee punch...

 

 

Then I roughed out a circular shape with shears...not a good job and I left it too big. I wish I could think of a better way to do this but thus far, all I can think of is making a huge punching die and that would be even more work - nor to I have a punch press to use it. In any case, I turned them round.

 

 

And pressed them in the die I made a few months ago...

 

 

I then tried them in the axle to make sure they fit. I also put the differential & it's bearings back in to make certain everything cleared. Everything fit properly.

 

 

So that is pretty much the sum total of my day's work...a lot of time (although I confess I didn't start until 11:00)...for a small part but when everything is a "one off" project that is to be expected.

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Mike Macartney]

Nice job with the punching Joe

[JV Puleo]

Thanks Mike. I can't say I am very comfortable working with sheet metal but these did come out about as good as I could hope. They look better than the ones I made from galvanized although there is no real difference as to how they will work.

Edited June 22, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Luv2Wrench]

So hold on here... you took flat sheet metal, punched a hole, turned them all to same diameter and then pressed them into a die to get that edge?  That last step doesn't seem possible.  I thought that was 100s of tons of pressure, with lubricants, heat, etc etc.  Obviously the pictures here show a different story, and one that I'm thrilled to see.  That is just the kind of part I didn't think I could make... that changed with your post!

[JV Puleo]

It's only 22 gauge sheet metal though I am pretty sure I could have gone up to 18 if I had any. The die has to be made to accommodate the thickness of the metal. It's a shop-made 20 ton press using a Harbor Freight bottle jack as the power. I actually have the screw part of a bigger screw press but when I built the press making the parts I needed was beyond my capacity. Could I now? Probably but I'm not sure I need it. As far as the pressed piece is concerned, I didn't know if it was possible until I tried it...I was pleasently surprised when it worked!

 

The Muriatic acid bath to remove the chrome on the motorcycle hub wasn't a success. (so much for going to the internet for ideas). It removed most of the chrome but, at the same time, ate the piece away to the point of being worthless. I could have fixed it but this is only a 1960s motorcycle...and a very common one. Parts are readily available so I just bought another.

 

 

I realized I should have used electrolysis, which has no effect on the base metal, so I unearthed my electrolysis tank - originally built to conserve Viking relics. My colleague Stuart calls it the "rusterator" and this is the Mk !V version. It uses rebar as the anodes and a battery charger for the power...If it worked with 1,000 year old axe heads I suspect a 60 year old motorcycle is a cake walk.

 

 

 

Once that was going I made another seal cutter for the OD of the new felt seals. The ID is unchanged so that cutter was fine.

 

 

I made 6 of them so each holder will have 3 and rather than a 1/4" seal I now have a 3/4" seal.

 

 

I still have to make covers for these but I'm waiting on the material. The seals work best if saturated with oil so I doused them with way oil I use on the lathe. It's sticky and, I think much better for this purpose than motor oil would be.

 

 

Here's the Pittman arm I rebushed, with the bolt from the original Pittman arm in place. The balls I ordered came in so I'll be renewing those shortly.

 

 

Last up today was this problem...You will notice that the Mitchell folks failed to provide any way to drain the rear end - or check the oil level. I'm not happy with that. at least in part because on long running job like this it's almost certain I'll have to drain it at some point. It should have a boss with a threaded-in plug. The casting is too thin to just tap and tapping a hole drilled in a pronounced radius is asking for trouble. My solution is to make a boss and silver solder it to the casting. The interesting part is the shape which has to be concave in one direction.

 

 

I started with a piece of 1-1/4" bar, drilled and reamed to 5/8"

 

 

Then moved it over to the mill to cut the radius. I calculated, as best I could, that it is 2-3/4". I'll try that. If it doesn't work I'll have to adjust it and try again but by this time my back was starting to hurt and It's best to leave this for tomorrow.

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Hi Joe, I am not so sure silver soldering a boss to the housing is such a good idea. If the joint fails you will have an instant self draining rear end. Silver soldering to a ferrous casting with 100% reliability is something that is difficult to  achieve.

 I think I would turn a pair of threaded parts , one that is flanged { plus drilled and tapped for the drain plug }so it cannot pass through the hole you will drill in the housing for the inside piece , and the second to thread on to the outside and lock the inner piece in place. Then silver solder it all together. That way even if the soldered joint fails you will only have a leak that you can catch before complete loss of your rear end oil, rather than the drain plug and boss potentially falling off altogether.

[edinmass]

“My electrolysis tank for de rusting Viking relics.” Why does this sound normal to me? Guess it lets you know where my head is.........shows how normal Joe & I are.........

 

I sure wish Joe lived within a few miles of me........I find his shop and projects one of the few interesting things worth my time reading about. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

Thanks Ed...

As to Silver Solder...I'd already had 2nd thoughts about that. However, there is problem with threading into the housing. I don't know how thick it is...probably between 3/16 and 1/4" - but maybe as thin as 1/8. Drill and threading a curved surface – by hand because I can't get the rear end in the mill or the drill press – may well make more problems than it's worth. My current thinking is to braze it in place...probably from both sides. Tomorrow I am going to tackle seeing if I can get the metal clean enough. I'm sure an oil soaked casting will be a problem. If that doesn't work, I'll try something else. You'll see from the part I'm making that I purposely designed it to have the smallest possible hole in the housing.

 

I started off by centering the piece in the mill.

 

 

A major problem was calculating the curvature of the housing. Only this morning I cam up with this idea. I bent a small piece of soft iron wire around the curve and then matched it to a cutter...

 

 

Fortunately, I had one that was very close so I set the mill up to cut a concave surface in one direction.

 

 

I don't know what I did wrong but it wasn't perfectly centered...but, the finished diameter is only 1" and if I braze it in place the small gap shouldn't be a problem. It may even be an advantage.

 

 

Then I inserted a piece of 5/8" rod...i Actually, I glued it in with Super glue Gel..only to keep it solid for the next step.

 

 

Drilling and reaming for a tapered pin that will pass directly through and hold the two pieces together firmly.

 

 

Then I turned it down to 1". The pin is now virtually invisible

 

 

I then trimmed both ends...I'd left extra material because until I get close to the finished size I needed something to grab. This will get drilled and threaded tomorrow. I can't do the finish trim on the small diameter part until I insert it, so I can trim to get is close to flush with the inside of the casting.

 

 

Brazing is commonly used in antique machinery repair on cast iron. The question isn't whether it will work, it's can I do a good job of it?

[Terry Harper]

Hello Joe,

I was just thinking.... Rather than braze the fitting to the housing. how about using a brass fitting with a seprate flange machined to match the curve and would be soldered to the fitting. The complete assembly could be secured to the housing with copper rivets with a gasket providing a seal. It would require drilling holes in the housing for the rivets but those can be match drilled. With the heavy oil you will be using in the differential any leaks would be minimal.... Just a thought. 

 

P.S. Super Glue is one of my favorite tricks for holding thin or small pieces while milling. A little heat to take apart and there it is! (LOL)

Edited June 24, 2021 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

17 minutes ago, Terry Harper said:

Hello Joe,

I was just thinking.... Rather than braze the fitting to the housing. how about using a brass fitting with a seprate flange machined to match the curve and would be soldered to the fitting. The complete assembly could be secured to the housing with copper rivets with a gasket providing a seal. It would require drilling holes in the housing for the rivets but those can be match drilled. With the heavy oil you will be using in the differential any leaks would be minimal.... Just a thought. 

 

P.S. Super Glue is one of my favorite tricks for holding thin or small pieces while milling. A little heat to take apart and there it is! (LOL)

 

I like that idea but I don't know how I'd make a fitting that perfectly matched the contours of the housing...how about an aluminum fitting? I could then make a mold of from the casting and have it cast? I will think about that more before I drill any holes...

Anything to avoid using heat is appealing to me!

 

j

Edited June 24, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Terry Harper]

37 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

 

I like that idea but I don't know how I'd make a fitting that perfectly matched the contours of the housing...how about an aluminum fitting? I could then make a mold of from the casting and have it cast? I will think about that more before I drill any holes...

Anything to avoid using heat is appealing to me!

 

j

Hello Joe,

 

That would work too! If its off a bit a little hand fitting would do the trick. With an gasket some minor discrepancy would not be a problem. Here is a fuel tank fitting I had to make a pattern for awhile back - similar shape and used a gasket and rivets. Its hard to tell from the photos but the flange is actually curved to match a 22" dia. tank.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Hi Joe, I didn't explain very well . But what I was trying to convey was two parts threaded together with the housing sandwiched by them. To make up for the uneven surface you could make a inside and outside piece as you are now doing , sort of an angled washer to leave you with a top and bottom that are true to each other, Then a flanged piece that has both an external thread and a hole right through that is drilled and taped for the plug. Finally a " nut " if you will that tightens everything together , sandwiching the housing. You could then either silver solder everything or assemble with sealing washers depending on your preference. The main thing is that the boss has a mechanical connection holding all the parts together.

 Probably 4 parts altogether plus the plug so a bit of lathe work, but I think you kind of enjoy that sort of thing.

[JV Puleo]

I think it's a workable idea. Tomorrow I'll finish the one I've made but put it aside while I do some experiments. I'm thinking a ring of 10-24 cap screws - maybe 6 of them -  around a raised boss. I'll use something to mold the underside to the casting...maybe Bondo or that wretched JB Weld - which does make a good filler and use a paper gasket with lots of old fashioned gasket shellac on it. Actually, I have some Gasolia pipe sealing varnish that might be just the think and I think dates back to the period.

 

Here's another question to ponder...

I'll use heavy oil in the rear end - the new bearings I'm installing will require it. This is from the original instruction book.

 

 

So...I wonder how much oil? How deep should it be in the well with the ring gear in place? I'd like to add a "level cock" or plug on the side of the housing.

[edinmass]

The oil should be just under the height of the centerline of the pinion...........not too much as even with your improved felt seals, it will want to work itself out. You can cut a reverse spirial on the axel to push the oil back towards the pinion. Obviously the rear wheel bearings should be modern sealed bearings, helps with oil control as well as preventing brake issues. I use Number 2 on my White rear wheel bearings after I installed modern sealed bearings. Works like a charm, and no leaks, and zero service issues. 

[JV Puleo]

I can't use true sealed bearings on the rear axle - they are tapered rollers on both sides, but I have a little room to play with because the new bearings are thinner so I'm working on a shield of some sort. Of course, in its original form there was nothing and Mitchell used the already obsolete "bicycle" bearings so anything I do will be an improvement.

 

That's a good piece of information about the oil level - now I shave something to work with.

[edinmass]

With todays modern oils bearing failure and gear wear are not at issue. I probably would run a 90-140 gear oil in the rear......some people like to run it heavier to prevent leaks. It's all comes down to what you like.

[JV Puleo]

That is exactly what I was thinking. I'm not terribly concerned with leaks because I'm not - or won't be - working with worn surfaces on loose parts. The housing is split at the middle so it may not be that critical or difficult to do. The drain cock would be just under the lip the cover sits on.

 

Greg...I like the idea and it's the sort of thing I'd do but I don't think there is enough clearance on the inside. The ring gear runs very close to the housing...but I cant see in there to measure when the gear is in place. I'm fiddling with this today so I'll look again. Thanks!

 

jp

Edited June 25, 2021 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Good morning Joe. Yes when I look back at your photos of the housing it becomes clear that there is not much internal space. That will limit your options all right. How is the fill plug located ? I know lube equipment manufacturers had suction gun's in their product line up by the 1920's at least.

  Perhaps Mitchel thought that on the rare occasion an owner would want to actually change the rear end oil rather than just top it up, that the old oil would just be suctioned out as much as practical , and then brought up to normal level with new. Given the relatively short working life of cars in this era , perhaps that was seen as a practical method of lubricating a vehicle rear end.

[JV Puleo]

Yes...There is nothing about the Mitchell that suggests they expected it to have a working life of any more than 5 or 10 years and, as we know, by 1920 there were virtually no 10 year old cars on the road except perhaps in very rural areas. However, I have been mulling over possibilities. The first was a flanged fitting with a ring of 10-24 screws holding it in. I made a drawing last night and started on it this morning. This time I'm using brass as I have a big piece of brass bar that is more than big enough.

 

 

After milling the radius I cut the end off, faced it and tapped it 3/8-24

 

 

 

But...I'm having 2nd thoughts about that solution. It would require drilling and tapping the housing and to do that I'd have to drill straight down into a sharply curved surface. I probably can do it using the fitting as a guide but the more I think of it, the better Greg's idea of a central bolt sounds. While I though about it I used some very course grinding paste to lap the fitting to the case...

 

 

 

That worked reasonably well...but I'm still in a quandary about the best way to attach it.  I took some measurements (as best I could) and it looks as if I have no more than 3/8"  clearance inside the case to work with...but, I'll have to think of a better way of getting a real measurement. I'm going to do another drawing tonight - drawing things helps me work out the measurements - to see if this is practicable. I don't think there is a question that it's the best solution if it can be done.